215 réponses à ce sujet

[Zwerkules]

NWN_baba yaga wrote...

I have a good feeling for this. Cool texture and the path type crosser is a must have;) What height in meters are you aiming for. The bio cliffs from the forest tileset are around 13m I guess.

5m isn't high enough and 13 is too high. It will be somewhere between 5 and 13, probably 8.
Raised mountain terrain will be 5m higher than that because that is the standard height for this tileset.

13m is too high because if you used a path crosser that should lead up the mountain on that tile there wouldn't be enough room on a single tile to make such a path unless it would be extremely steep.
If the path leads up the mountain in serpentines, there might be enough room on a single tile if the mountain is 8m high.

[henesua]

With regards to the path up the mountain:
Another way up a mountain is climbing, which would be handled by scripting. A nice addition to work with a climbing system would be perches on the side of the mountain between top and bottom. A player would not be able to walk to the perch, but could be jumped there by a DM or by script when in the midst of a climbing action.

Its also a nice place on which a flying archer can land to take shots at pcs

[s e n]

random crazy idea i dont have the will to test but if works that would be a cool workaround to make mountain raise not by 5 but by a multiplier of 5 (10, 15 etc). the bad thing is i think 2 set files will be needed and so the need to switch from one to the other when working on the mountain terrain, btw i will explain my idea: in the standard set file height is 5, and in the other one is lets say 10.
you create the mountain terrain so that it allows such 10 meters raise. set file height values for tiles are 0 and 1 for the mountain set file, BUT in the standard set file your 1 becomes 2, and this is absolutely engine friendly since it is possible to place groups with height values different than 0 and 1.

another idea: switch the tileset height to 10, adjust the current tiles to fit that and change the raise grass from 1 to a different terrain (you know pasilli/blood monkey rocky mountain tileset made that) and (this the bad thing) create all the hundreds of variations needed to bring the hills for 7.5 and 10 height.

posting here not because i think you will try that but cuz it may bring interesting discussion for a tileset maker perspective

[_six]

Wouldn't work, sen. The area file stores the number of raises for each tile, but not the absolute height. That's calculated from the .set file, so changing the .set file will also change tiles already painted.

[Pstemarie]

3RavensMore wrote...

Something you'd may wish to consider for rural & mountain sets: something like the sea cliffs but with rural or mountain terrain at the base instead of water.

Project Q v1.5 has a "canyon" terrain feature that uses the sea cliffs from the TNO tileset with grass on the canyon floor instead of water.

[Rolo Kipp]

<looking under his bed...>

And I've always like the looks of the never released Blood War tileset, especially the rocks...



Just sayin'... ;-)

<...for his druthers>

Modifié par Rolo Kipp, 03 juillet 2012 - 11:14 .

[3RavensMore]

Pstemarie, Q 1.5? You're such a tease.

[Zwerkules]

3RavensMore wrote...

Something you'd may wish to consider for rural & mountain sets: something like the sea cliffs but with rural or mountain terrain at the base instead of water.

Like the medieval city tileset this tileset already has cliffs with grass instead of water at the base.
There are however no roads or buildings you can place down there, just rivers.

[NWN_baba yaga]

You used the tno canyons for your forest too zwerkules right?

[Zwerkules]

NWN_baba yaga wrote...

You used the tno canyons for your forest too zwerkules right?

Yes, in the forest terrain of the NWN2 houses tileset I used the tno sea cliffs together with the forest cliffs and rock formations from the underdark tileset at the top of the forest cliffs. I've taken parts from that tileset for the Medieval City tileset., but I won't take any more of those tiles, because I don't want to make more tiles based on Bioware or DLA tiles.
The only other thing I might take from that tileset at a later point are the  NWN2 houses. I'll make a hak with those as placeables.

[WebShaman]

Me likes the Blood War look as well...

[Zwerkules]

This screenshot shows two tiles with mountain terrain on each side and two unfinished ones that have mountain terrain in the two upper corners. The mountain uses all of the 10m of the tile at the moment, that will be reduced to 8m and there'll be two metres of grass at the bottom. There'll also be no straight line there.

However before I fix that, I have to get rid of the visible seam. The tiles always have a part on the right sides that overlaps the left side of the tile next to it. I have to make that part a bit broader and higher to get rid of the seams.

Modifié par Zwerkules, 07 juillet 2012 - 04:46 .

[NWN_baba yaga]

Looking very good so far just a bit to moosy?. Maybe it´s my monitor setting but your rock texture is a bit to greenish for a cliff that doesnt breaks out of a forested area. But the overall feeling is like I said, very good anyway;)

[s e n]

why are you overlapping edges instead of using lr method of smoothing adiacent tiles? designers choise?

[Rolo Kipp]

<definitely *not*...>

I think you lose quite a bit of the "rocky" definition with too much smoothing and mapping a texture that doesn't, uh, recognize the vertices beneath it.

One of the things I like about the Bloodwar set is the defined edges to the model and the weathered seam of the texture that matches up to it. Exposed edges are lighter in color and it really helps "pop" the fractal nature of the rock, IMO.



<... criticizing >

Modifié par Rolo Kipp, 07 juillet 2012 - 08:56 .

[NWN_baba yaga]

I used a similar take on rocks/ cliffs in my underdark set. Using a few non smoothed polys along the mountain sides will help to define some natural looking structure;)

[henesua]

i like the bloodwar set too, but i don't think that sort of expressionism fits zwerkules' style. although i do agree that shadows will highlight the volume of the rock, i wonder if the engine's lighting would reveal the geometry like you are requesting anyway, rolo.

my question is more wok mesh related. how close to the top of the cliff can a player walk?

[s e n]

aye, i agree with you about fracturizing the smoothing of rock, but rolo, keyword here is control: put the spiky edges where you want, not where you need because of the engine.

blood wars tileset is actually rocky, very rocky. i dont think there is edge overlapping at all in those tiles

the fact is, since it is possible to get both smooth and non smooth staying away from edge overlapping (which allows just non smoothing) i am wondering what zw has in mind

just plain curiousity since i always had a turn on with mountain tilesets though i never seen one that fully pleased my tastes, nor i found a way to create the special one by my self.

[Rolo Kipp]

<piling up his plate...>

I don't think I'm explaining things very well, so I'm gonna let it rest.

After this ;-)

Bloodwar is *too* rocky, I think, for the direction Z is going. But I really like the use of smoothing groups and gradient textures (lighter in one direction, darker in the other) *and* lining up the lightest bits with the edge of smoothing groups. It really heightens the feel of the weathering/age.

Re the seam: I like fooling the eye with other seams, such as a sharper, lighter edge crossing the tile seam at an angle. Or a darker crease/fracture doing the same.

And you can overlap projections from one tile on another to break up the straight lines (which I think is what Z is talking about).

@ H: The engine lighting/shadows are much more dramatic at the edge of smoothing groups :-) It would definitely emphasize the depth of the geometry.

In regards to the wok, Z could always extend the wok out over empty air and give builders a spot floating in midair for them to lay triggers for climbing/falling... as long as there wasn't walkable terrain below, that is.

<...so he has something better to do with his mouth>

Modifié par Rolo Kipp, 07 juillet 2012 - 10:12 .

[Zwerkules]

I hardly had time to work on the mountains this week, so there's not a lot of progress.
The transition from the rock texture to the grass texture is still missing as well as moss patches on the mountainsides and shrubs, trees and wildflowers.



I like the bloodwar tileset, too, but those rocks only fit into a wasteland or desert.
The mountains I am making are formed by glaciers, ice and water. They are rather smooth and that's the way they should be. They aren't supposed to be rocky. There'll be moss and grass and other plants growing on them.

Modifié par Zwerkules, 19 juillet 2012 - 08:50 .

[NWN_baba yaga]

I realy like it. And we can use placeable boulders and bushes to cover some spots where the rocks break out. It´s not to natural anway to have for everything a "transition" texture imo. Very good work and you seem to have improved the general rock structure or just sharpened some edges.

[Zwerkules]

Thank you, Baba!

henesua wrote...
My question is more wok mesh related. how close to the top of the cliff can a player walk?

Forgot to answer this, sorry.
At the moment the mountain tiles aren't walkable at all. Later they can be made walkable with two crossers.
What is the road crosser now, will be called path in one of the next updates and the road crosser will be a crosser for cobbled roads.
If you use the path crosser on mountain terrain it will become walkable, but there won't always be a clear path between the rocks, there'll be parts of the path where there'll be some rock you have to walk over or some bushes you have to walk through.
If you use the road crosser, you will get a clear path which will have a railing or fence at one side where people could fall off a cliff if there was no railing there.
Both crossers can be placed in all directions, not just from the bottom of a mountain tile to the top but also paralell to the mountainside. You'll get pathes at about half the height of the tile then.

Even without the path and road crossers some of the mountain tiles will have walkable parts. There will be ledges where you can place archers or you could hide some treasure there which could only be reached if the PC used a rope.
I'm not sure if those tiles should appear when you place mountain terrain or if I should only make them features.

Modifié par Zwerkules, 20 juillet 2012 - 12:19 .

[henesua]

Thanks for the answers, Zwerkules. That sounds great.

With regards to some mountain tiles having walkable parts and whether to make these tiles features or alternate tiles:
If you are going to provide visual cues as to the presence of a walkable part then an alternate tile works. Otherwise its best as a feature.

[Zwerkules]

Baba Yaga, you're right. The transition texture from rock to grass is not needed. If there were leaves or sand instead of the grass I would probably have made a texture for the transition from rock to sand or leaves, but with the 3d grass right next to the mountain it is unnecessary. Saves me some time.

Here is a first screenshot of what the mountains look like in game:



Those tiles are still unfinished though. There are no plants on any of the mountain tiles yet and the moss patches are also still missing.

Modifié par Zwerkules, 21 juillet 2012 - 03:33 .

[_six]

Coolness. I wasn't sure how these were going to look ingame, from the screenshots earlier, but they seem to fit into the set pretty well. Do I see some raise/lower on them?