149 réponses à ce sujet

[MWaHa]

Veramocor wrote...

The Constitution of the United States? We have dismissed that claim.

Wait are we talking about Mass Effect 3 or the recent health care ruling ;-P

This is me not touching that comment with a 10 foot pole.

[FunBoyT]

InfamousResult wrote...

It would be preferable. And I think that Bioware would do what is preferable, if they could- they don't want to have a bad rep. It's likely that it would take a lot of time, though.. Time that would be better spent continuing to investigate cases, and making sure they don't ban innocent players.

If we could all have our cake and eat it, too, we would live in a perfect world. It is, unfortunately, not the case.

I would suggest that being forced to give a reason for the ban would ensure that innocent people aren't banned by mistake.  If you don't have to justify why you've done something its much too easy to just rush through and make mistakes.  Lack of accountability and large corporations do not make happy bed fellows for the consumer.

While Bioware may have no legal obligation to reveal why they've banned someone they surely have a moral obligation.  Its the reason why civilised countries have courts and due process.  The prisons may be full of "innocent people" but at least they were given detailed charges and the opportunity to defend themselves.

Bottom line is though that you don't know the details of this case so you aren't basing your opinion on facts but rather playing the odds and saying that's good enough.  While you're very welcome to your opinion it doesn't mean that its valid.

[ArtGerhardt]

I once had my steam account banned. Probably had over $600 worth of games at the time. I asked Steam support why and they said i was somehow using fake credit cards and getting steam games without paying for them. What actually happened was that someone stole my debit card number and tried to make huge purchases with it, and my bank caught on and froze my account for me. This happened while i was in the process of ordering a game on Steam myself.

I simply told them my story, gave them my new CC number, and they unbanned me for something was was considered a "perma-ban."

So yeah, Steam has one of the most reliable anti-hacker/cheater/scammer systems in the digital distribution industry and even they get it wrong sometimes.

[BoomDynamite]

Veramocor wrote...

The Constitution of the United States? We have dismissed that claim.

Wait are we talking about Mass Effect 3 or the recent health care ruling ;-P

I guess both. Glitches and the ruling are both mistakes.

[Gockey]

BoomDynamite wrote...

Veramocor wrote...

The Constitution of the United States? We have dismissed that claim.

Wait are we talking about Mass Effect 3 or the recent health care ruling ;-P

I guess both. Glitches and the ruling are both mistakes.

+1 * 10^99999

[dr octagon 3000]

Uchimura wrote...

Unfair bans can happen. I've known it to happen in other games. No system is flawless.

Not siding with anyone, but I don't see the need to bear teeth unless it's someone you actually witnessed cheating and/or being a d-bag about it.

Agreed. I get a sense that some people are a bit report-crazy. Yet another product of the anonymous internet.

[CmnDwnWrkn]

Oh good God please keep politics out of this

[Omega2079]

InfamousResult wrote...

Freskione2 wrote...

You have the right to know

No you don't.

Show me the legal document that says this.

While I agree the word right is thrown around a lot, rights don't come from legal documents.

[BoomDynamite]

Omega2079 wrote...

InfamousResult wrote...

Freskione2 wrote...

You have the right to know

No you don't.

Show me the legal document that says this.

While I agree the word right is thrown around a lot, rights don't come from legal documents.

In this the right to know why you were banned would come from the ToS. It says in the ToS that you do not have to be notified why (I think. Not sure).

[Ninja Stan]

EDIT: Unlocked after discussion with Thomas Abram.

Modifié par Ninja Stan, 28 juin 2012 - 07:31 .

[Thomas Abram]

CmnDwnWrkn wrote...

Nobody has a legal right to know why they were banned, and BioWare does not have a legal obligation to tell them. That said, informing someone of why they were banned is the right thing to do.

xcrunr1647 wrote...

I doubt that Bioware bans innocent players.

That's all I'm going to say on the matter.

A BioWare employee said in this thread that "no system is perfect". In other words, they acknowledge some innocent players are going to be banned, even if it's a very small number of them, it happens.

That was me. I know this system inside and out and I want to clarify a couple things:

#1. This is NOT an automated system. A real person investigates accounts that have either been reported to us or that a seperate system has flagged for investigation.
#2. Appeals are often reviewed by multiple people, who exchange ideas and look at the big picture as well as individual slices of data.

As I mentioned, I will be the first to admit that our system isn't 100% perfect and that mistakes may be made, but I can tell you that due to the amount of seperate checks we run the margin for error is very, very small.

[skullmount4]

Thomas Abram wrote...

Ghostknife72 wrote...

Agreed.  However, can Bioware please clarify their position on the rocket glitch soon? 

More and more people are walking into lobbies (or games in progress) with Rocket Glitchers.  I already reported two this week now.  They are becoming hard to avoid in any public game.  Just an FYI.  Thank you.

Quickly off topic here. We have made our position clear:

Using the infinite rocket glitch is against the cheating policies and procedures and can get you banned.

Playing with people who rocket glitch, as long as you aren't aware before the fact, is okay at this time.

Is there a way you can tell if they are using the glitch ahead of starting a match? Just so I know not to play with them.  Also how can you tell if they are using the glitch (I never really pay attention to who is using a rocket)?  This kinda has me paranoid not to play because I don't want to be banned for playing with random people.

[BoomDynamite]

Off-Topic: This was unlocked?
On-Topic: Maybe request a second opinion or reason why you were banned?

[CmnDwnWrkn]

Thomas Abram wrote...

CmnDwnWrkn wrote...

Nobody has a legal right to know why they were banned, and BioWare does not have a legal obligation to tell them. That said, informing someone of why they were banned is the right thing to do.

xcrunr1647 wrote...

I doubt that Bioware bans innocent players.

That's all I'm going to say on the matter.

A BioWare employee said in this thread that "no system is perfect". In other words, they acknowledge some innocent players are going to be banned, even if it's a very small number of them, it happens.

That was me. I know this system inside and out and I want to clarify a couple things:

#1. This is NOT an automated system. A real person investigates accounts that have either been reported to us or that a seperate system has flagged for investigation.
#2. Appeals are often reviewed by multiple people, who exchange ideas and look at the big picture as well as individual slices of data.

As I mentioned, I will be the first to admit that our system isn't 100% perfect and that mistakes may be made, but I can tell you that due to the amount of seperate checks we run the margin for error is very, very small.

I believe this, Thomas.  I never got the impression that BioWare doesn't do a thorough and careful job with the investigations.  I'm just wondering if there's a specific reason why people aren't told exactly why they're being banned.  If you can't answer or don't want to answer this, I totally understand.

[Omega2079]

BoomDynamite wrote...

Omega2079 wrote...

InfamousResult wrote...

Freskione2 wrote...

You have the right to know

No you don't.

Show me the legal document that says this.

While I agree the word right is thrown around a lot, rights don't come from legal documents.

In this the right to know why you were banned would come from the ToS. It says in the ToS that you do not have to be notified why (I think. Not sure).

Agreements do not equal rights.

I think I've seen that part of the ToS too, and I think you're right about that.

[L.ast L.ife]

Who unlocked the thre- er... Nevermind.  This is the perfect opportunity to get my last question answered:

L.ast L.ife wrote...

Thomas Abram wrote...

Quickly off topic here. We have made our position clear:

Using the infinite rocket glitch is against the cheating policies and procedures and can get you banned.

Playing with people who rocket glitch, as long as you aren't aware before the fact, is okay at this time.

...I'm still a little confused. I assume you mean joining or hosting a single game with a rocket glitcher then leaving entirely is fine. What about people like me who have reported in the past and left games in progress entirely? I don't want to lose my equipment nor do I want remaining in the game to be considered a flaggable offense against my account.

I'd assume those who remain in the lobby for another game are going to be banned by association regardless of reporting. Any clarification on this would be appreciated. Thanks for answering the question in the first place, but it sort of left more unanswered questions than anything else in its wake.

Modifié par L.ast L.ife, 28 juin 2012 - 07:41 .

[megawug]

As long as there is an appeal mechanism for bans. No system is perfect after all.

[Thomas Abram]

[quote]CmnDwnWrkn wrote...

*SNIP*

A BioWare employee said in this thread that "no system is perfect". In other words, they acknowledge some innocent players are going to be banned, even if it's a very small number of them, it happens.
[/quote]

That was me. I know this system inside and out and I want to clarify a couple things:

#1. This is NOT an automated system. A real person investigates accounts that have either been reported to us or that a seperate system has flagged for investigation.
#2. Appeals are often reviewed by multiple people, who exchange ideas and look at the big picture as well as individual slices of data.

As I mentioned, I will be the first to admit that our system isn't 100% perfect and that mistakes may be made, but I can tell you that due to the amount of seperate checks we run the margin for error is very, very small.[/quote]

I believe this, Thomas.  I never got the impression that BioWare doesn't do a thorough and careful job with the investigations.  I'm just wondering if there's a specific reason why people aren't told exactly why they're being banned.  If you can't answer or don't want to answer this, I totally understand.
[/quote]

It's an odd position to be honest and one we didn't take lightly when discussing what we would and would not tell players. Essentially it boiled down to 99.9% of cheaters know what they did (whether they want to admit it or not) so mentioning exactly what could lead to future circumvention of some of the ways we detect cheaters.

A life without ABRAM SMASH is a life not worth living.

[Raging Nug]

Omega2079 wrote...
Agreements do not equal rights.

I think I've seen that part of the ToS too, and I think you're right about that. 

Rights and laws exist only insofar as people agree on them and enforce them. Consensus is important.

I believe the ToS does say they don't have to notify you - but it would be nice if they did, especially if they're already performing investigations on a case-by-case basis. But then that might lead to more people trying to appeal, which would slow the process.

Anyone know if these bans 'are' in fact otherwise permanent?

[Markopolo1980]

Yep no system is perfect and that also means that eaven bioware can make mistakes.

[Omega2079]

Raging Nug wrote...

Omega2079 wrote...
Agreements do not equal rights.

I think I've seen that part of the ToS too, and I think you're right about that. 

Rights and laws exist only insofar as people agree on them and enforce them. Consensus is important.

I believe the ToS does say they don't have to notify you - but it would be nice if they did, especially if they're already performing investigations on a case-by-case basis. But then that might lead to more people trying to appeal, which would slow the process.

Anyone know if these bans 'are' in fact otherwise permanent?

Consensus = might equals right.

I agree it would be favourable action on their part to state why a ban takes place.

[ReflectedRed]

I have encountered rocket glitcher once and noticed the cheating happening after wave 6 or 7 I'm not sure, but I didn't leave during the match because I spent consumables. So I left after the match, am I safe or screwed?
Plus I have fell through the floor on Firebase White once like 2 months ago because someone told me to try it and see what happens.

How bad are these "accidents" that have happened to me?

[Thomas Abram]

ReflectedRed wrote...

I have encountered rocket glitcher once and noticed the cheating happening after wave 6 or 7 I'm not sure, but I didn't leave during the match because I spent consumables. So I left after the match, am I safe or screwed?
Plus I have fell through the floor on Firebase White once like 2 months ago because someone told me to try it and see what happens.

How bad are these "accidents" that have happened to me?

Nothing to worry about

[upinya slayin]

Thomas Abram wrote...

ReflectedRed wrote...

I have encountered rocket glitcher once and noticed the cheating happening after wave 6 or 7 I'm not sure, but I didn't leave during the match because I spent consumables. So I left after the match, am I safe or screwed?
Plus I have fell through the floor on Firebase White once like 2 months ago because someone told me to try it and see what happens.

How bad are these "accidents" that have happened to me?

Nothing to worry about

I think what epople need to understand is you don't ahve to walk on eggshells. just don't cheat. your not gonna get banned for a random encounter. If i fall through the floor once or twice they won't ban me (i know cause i have and i haven't been banned lol) now if i did it 20 times in the same game then i can get banned lol

[Lord Thornos]

I wish the resources that you all use for investigating cheating could be used for something else

Modifié par Lord Thornos, 28 juin 2012 - 09:17 .