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[Guccimayne]

As much as I delighted in unloading my pistol into Starchild, I don't understand how in the post game, it is revealed that the next cycle actually defeated the Reapers. Surely this time around, the crucible was an acknowledged threat and the citadel would have been on lockdown or modified from day 1 in order to prevent its docking. AFAIK the crucible still needs the starchild's input.. he just let it go with no resistance? What was the point of the fighting at Earth?

And even if that is not the case and they did fire up the crucible thousands of years before the reapers arrived without needing Starchild, would the reapers even be affected? They only leave one reaper in the galaxy and then they fly off to dark space where they are (presumably) safe. They can make their rounds without the relays, so at best the next cycle shot itself in the foot.

"Conventional warfare" is the only conceivable solution to how the next cycle beat the reapers, yet it is "stressed" that it is impossible in our time. And that makes no sense to me. Did the reapers knowingly let themselves be defeated by the crucible or were they outgunned somehow?

Modifié par Guccimayne, 28 juin 2012 - 03:58 .

[LiarasShield]

no Reject is not impossible espically if shepard believes in freedom and races making their own choices and with liaras data of the reapers and our weapons the next cycle may have been able to beat the reapers conventionally where we could not

[Guccimayne]

LiarasShield wrote...

no Reject is not impossible espically if shepard believes in freedom and races making their own choices and with liaras data of the reapers and our weapons the next cycle may have been able to beat the reapers conventionally where we could not

How so? We passed down our information, yes.. but that implies that we had the tech to destroy them in the first place. I would argue that is true since we supposedly have thanix cannons on everything with an engine, yet somehow they didn't do very much at all. 

[sydranark]

Nothing is impossible with Mac Walters. Men can survive entering a planet's atmosphere and crashing into a planet, black holes and wormholes are one in the same, it is possible to change everyone's DNA to make them half-laptop by jumping into a beam of light. Anything can happen.

[Grifman1]

Guccimayne wrote...

As much as I delighted in unloading my pistol into Starchild, I don't understand how in the post game, it is revealed that the next cycle actually defeated the Reapers. Surely this time around, the crucible was an acknowledged threat and the citadel would have been on lockdown or modified from day 1 in order to prevent its docking.

And even if that is not the case and they did fire up the crucible thousands of years before the reapers arrived, would they even be affected? They only leave one reaper in the galaxy and then they fly off to dark space where they are (presumably) safe. They can make their rounds without the relays, so at best the next cycle shot itself in the foot.

"Conventional warfare" is the only conceivable solution to how the next cycle beat the reapers, yet it is "stressed" that it is impossible in our time. And that makes no sense to me. Did the reapers knowingly let themselves be defeated by the crucible or were they outgunned somehow?

Duh, the next cycle build their own crucible using Liara's information.  No need for them to use the current one.

[LiarasShield]

Guccimayne wrote...

LiarasShield wrote...

no Reject is not impossible espically if shepard believes in freedom and races making their own choices and with liaras data of the reapers and our weapons the next cycle may have been able to beat the reapers conventionally where we could not

How so? We passed down our information, yes.. but that implies that we had the tech to destroy them in the first place. I would argue that is true since we supposedly have thanix cannons on everything with an engine, yet somehow they didn't do very much at all. 

Because the developed more powerful weapons from our previous ones probably had stronger races then we did during our time many factors making them beat the reapers conventionally more possiable then when we tried to

[Angrish]

sydranark wrote...

Nothing is impossible with Mac Walters. 

except for writing an ending where shepard doesn't die. that's not possible.

[likta_]

1.) Have the Crucible attached until the reapers arrive, then fire it.

2.) Find liaras schematics for thanix cannons, build buttloads of dreadnaughts using them

3.) Laugh at the reapers

[sydranark]

LiarasShield wrote...

Guccimayne wrote...

LiarasShield wrote...

no Reject is not impossible espically if shepard believes in freedom and races making their own choices and with liaras data of the reapers and our weapons the next cycle may have been able to beat the reapers conventionally where we could not

How so? We passed down our information, yes.. but that implies that we had the tech to destroy them in the first place. I would argue that is true since we supposedly have thanix cannons on everything with an engine, yet somehow they didn't do very much at all. 

Because the developed more powerful weapons from our previous ones probably had stronger races then we did during our time many factors making them beat the reapers conventionally more possiable then when we tried to

would you like some fries with that headcanon?

[Guccimayne]

Grifman1 wrote...

Guccimayne wrote...

As much as I delighted in unloading my pistol into Starchild, I don't understand how in the post game, it is revealed that the next cycle actually defeated the Reapers. Surely this time around, the crucible was an acknowledged threat and the citadel would have been on lockdown or modified from day 1 in order to prevent its docking.

And even if that is not the case and they did fire up the crucible thousands of years before the reapers arrived, would they even be affected? They only leave one reaper in the galaxy and then they fly off to dark space where they are (presumably) safe. They can make their rounds without the relays, so at best the next cycle shot itself in the foot.

"Conventional warfare" is the only conceivable solution to how the next cycle beat the reapers, yet it is "stressed" that it is impossible in our time. And that makes no sense to me. Did the reapers knowingly let themselves be defeated by the crucible or were they outgunned somehow?

Duh, the next cycle build their own crucible using Liara's information.  No need for them to use the current one.

Their own crucible would still require the citadel, no? And the reapers now know the galaxy's inhabitants aren't messing around with that thing. How could they be fooled twice into thinking the plans were not passed down? That's insanity right there.

[LiarasShield]

sydranark wrote...

LiarasShield wrote...

Guccimayne wrote...

LiarasShield wrote...

no Reject is not impossible espically if shepard believes in freedom and races making their own choices and with liaras data of the reapers and our weapons the next cycle may have been able to beat the reapers conventionally where we could not

How so? We passed down our information, yes.. but that implies that we had the tech to destroy them in the first place. I would argue that is true since we supposedly have thanix cannons on everything with an engine, yet somehow they didn't do very much at all. 

Because the developed more powerful weapons from our previous ones probably had stronger races then we did during our time many factors making them beat the reapers conventionally more possiable then when we tried to

would you like some fries with that headcanon?

Just saying alot of potential factors could make them win conventionally where we could not either the whole reject ending can be lead to our own conclusions

[Guccimayne]

LiarasShield wrote...

Guccimayne wrote...

LiarasShield wrote...

no Reject is not impossible espically if shepard believes in freedom and races making their own choices and with liaras data of the reapers and our weapons the next cycle may have been able to beat the reapers conventionally where we could not

How so? We passed down our information, yes.. but that implies that we had the tech to destroy them in the first place. I would argue that is true since we supposedly have thanix cannons on everything with an engine, yet somehow they didn't do very much at all. 

Because the developed more powerful weapons from our previous ones probably had stronger races then we did during our time many factors making them beat the reapers conventionally more possiable then when we tried to

Actually now that I think about it, the woman at the end said that we fought the war so they wouldn't have to. Upgraded weapons or not, they would have still had the fight of their lives for that victory. So I'm led to believe that conventional warfare probably wasn't the road taken. But then that brings me back to my problems with a crucible 2.0.....

[Eire Icon]

If Shepard chose the refusal option then he failed, and caused the obliteration of all advanced life in the galaxy

The next cycle got the plans for the crucible thanks to Liara, built it, and had enough sense to take the Catalyst up on his kind offer to destroy himself and the reapers

[LiarasShield]

Eire Icon wrote...

If Shepard chose the refusal option then he failed, and caused the obliteration of all advanced life in the galaxy

The next cycle got the plans for the crucible thanks to Liara, built it, and had enough sense to take the Catalyst up on his kind offer to destroy himself and the reapers

Well to me they found a way made more advanced weapons from our plans and weaknesses of the reapers were  in liaras becon a united front from the begining and not towards the end do they begining standing together so no I don't think they had to use the crucible but found another way to defeat the reapers but for the freedom of all

[sydranark]

LiarasShield wrote...
Just saying alot of potential factors could make them win conventionally where we could not either the whole reject ending can be lead to our own conclusions

Did you pay $60+ on this game (and who knows how much more on the other games plus DLC) just to headcanon the ending?

If I wanted to sit imagining sh*t happened I would have stared at a wall and done it for free. I paid for a conclusion, I want to see a conclusion. 

Edit: wanted* to see a conclusion. I know that the EC was the last chance for a proper ending and there won't be anymore. 
 

Modifié par sydranark, 28 juin 2012 - 03:50 .

[CrutchCricket]

**** right off with the whole "conventional warfare is impossible". It's not impossible, we just couldn't do it because we dicked around and wasted 98% of the time we could've spent preparing. It became impossible for us (maybe) because of our circumstances.

The next cycle, warned in time and with thousands of years of preparation curb-stomps the Reapers with pew-pews and firin their lazors, twitter be damned. And space grandma who looks suspiciously like an asari gets to enjoy the Starchild metal album vista with her kid.

Modifié par CrutchCricket, 28 juin 2012 - 03:51 .

[richard_rider]

It's a fictional world, anything is possible, even conventional victory, but in order to realize their "artistic vision" they decided to play with space magic, instead of rules based on a somewhat realistic rule set.

[Guccimayne]

Eire Icon wrote...

If Shepard chose the refusal option then he failed, and caused the obliteration of all advanced life in the galaxy

The next cycle got the plans for the crucible thanks to Liara, built it, and had enough sense to take the Catalyst up on his kind offer to destroy himself and the reapers

But the catalyst did not have enough sense to guard the citadel? He knows of the crucible's existence..again. He just sat there and took it?

[LiarasShield]

sydranark wrote...

LiarasShield wrote...
Just saying alot of potential factors could make them win conventionally where we could not either the whole reject ending can be lead to our own conclusions

Did you pay $60+ on this game (and who knows how much more on the other games plus DLC) just to headcanon the ending?

If I wanted to sit imagining sh*t happened I would have stared at a wall and done it for free. I paid for a conclusion, I want to see a conclusion. 

Edit: wanted* to see a conclusion. I know that the EC was the last chance for a proper ending and there won't be anymore. 
 

I like the reject ending because shepards fights for freedom for everybody to choose their own future do I not like speculating of course i don't but in the good destroy ending we still have to speculate about either shepard living or dieing and if the relays get rebuilt in time

But at least shepards doesn't change or alter anyone and dies fighting for what he or she believes in and probably the next cycle with our data and their own future weapons and enhanced genetics could beat the reapers conventionally where we could not

[Guccimayne]

CrutchCricket wrote...

**** right off with the whole "conventional warfare is impossible". It's not impossible, we just couldn't do it because we dicked around and wasted 98% of the time we could've spent preparing. It became impossible for us (maybe) because of our circumstances.

The next cycle, warned in time and with thousands of years of preparation curb-stomps the Reapers with pew-pews and firin their lazors, twitter be damned. And space grandma who looks suspiciously like an asari gets to enjoy the Starchild metal album vista with her kid.

I mean, that would imply that the next cycle jumped beyond the scope of the reapers themselves within 50k years if they can just shoot a couple of rounds and it's case closed. The Asari at the end said her cycle didn't have to fight the war, so I'm led to believe they did *something* simple and yet won. 

That leaves the crucible as the only logical option, but why would starchild sit back and let that thing dock? He knew about it from the previous cycle. Is he really that inept?

Modifié par Guccimayne, 28 juin 2012 - 03:56 .

[Clayless]

LiarasShield wrote...

But at least shepards doesn't change or alter anyone and dies fighting for what he or she believes in and probably the next cycle with our data and their own future weapons and enhanced genetics could beat the reapers conventionally where we could not

The next cycle doesn't fight them, they beat the Reapers and avoid war entirely, so they presumably used the Crucible.

[LiarasShield]

Our_Last_Scene wrote...

LiarasShield wrote...

But at least shepards doesn't change or alter anyone and dies fighting for what he or she believes in and probably the next cycle with our data and their own future weapons and enhanced genetics could beat the reapers conventionally where we could not

The next cycle doesn't fight them, they beat the Reapers and avoid war entirely, so they presumably used the Crucible.

But that is our own headcannon you can speculate wether they used the crucible and liara even mentioned that the crucible wouldn't work so I'm sure they came up with a new solution ^^

[Clayless]

LiarasShield wrote...

Our_Last_Scene wrote...

LiarasShield wrote...

But at least shepards doesn't change or alter anyone and dies fighting for what he or she believes in and probably the next cycle with our data and their own future weapons and enhanced genetics could beat the reapers conventionally where we could not

The next cycle doesn't fight them, they beat the Reapers and avoid war entirely, so they presumably used the Crucible.

But that is our own headcannon you can speculate wether they used the crucible and liara even mentioned that the crucible wouldn't work so I'm sure they came up with a new solution ^^

That's not headcannon, the female stargazer states in the game they avoided war.

[sydranark]

LiarasShield wrote...
I like the reject ending because shepards fights for freedom for everybody to choose their own future do I not like speculating of course i don't but in the good destroy ending we still have to speculate about either shepard living or dieing and if the relays get rebuilt in time (1) 

But at least shepards doesn't change or alter anyone and dies fighting for what he or she believes in and probably the next cycle with our data and their own future weapons and enhanced genetics could beat the reapers conventionally where we could not (2)

1) Where have you been? =/ They retconned the relay explosion, that doesn't happen anymore. Also, Shep does live. If you couldn't understand that from Liara not putting his plaque up on the Normandy's wall, maybe you'll get it from the Moderators on BSN that have said over and over again that Shep does live, and his LI senses it.

2) I'm going to drop this because we're not getting anywhere in the discussion. The fact is that this was never described in-game, and you are headcanoning it. A creative imagination is the only way to appreciate that ending. 

Modifié par sydranark, 28 juin 2012 - 03:59 .

[LiarasShield]

Our_Last_Scene wrote...

LiarasShield wrote...

Our_Last_Scene wrote...

LiarasShield wrote...

But at least shepards doesn't change or alter anyone and dies fighting for what he or she believes in and probably the next cycle with our data and their own future weapons and enhanced genetics could beat the reapers conventionally where we could not

The next cycle doesn't fight them, they beat the Reapers and avoid war entirely, so they presumably used the Crucible.

But that is our own headcannon you can speculate wether they used the crucible and liara even mentioned that the crucible wouldn't work so I'm sure they came up with a new solution ^^

That's not headcannon, the female stargazer states in the game they avoided war.

Yet liara in the beacon personally said the crucible would not work if one is to believe that something would not work why would they try to use it O_o

And the health breath scene and the plague not getting puth up still doesn't give a sense that he or she living maybe someone digging him or her out of the dirt or him or her barely standing up and then cut to the credits then yeah sure but it doesn't give me that yeah he or she lived feeling