139 réponses à ce sujet

[Grifman1]

I depends on how you define life! For my part selfawareness alone is not life. Sorry..

How can something be self aware but not alive?

[Shadowvalker]

To have a pulse would be a start......

[Myrmedus]

Kastrenzo wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

On the upside the Starbrat heavily implies everything lost can be rebuilt (which would include the Geth and EDI) on the downside everything lost can be rebuilt (which would include the Reapers).

So yeah...

They won't have the same Intelligence as they did in ME3, So take the Geth for example, it'd be just like risking a second Morning War.

I dont know what it is with synthetics, to me it's still a video game, and no matter how hard it and its narrators try, they've never convinced me that Synthetics are "alive",  They just simulate it, So faced with the choice I don't have qualms about destroying robots. 

The whole point is the question as to what constitutes being "alive"?

Organic lifeforms are also machines. Our thought processes, personality, opinions, even our genes are essentially just like an evolving algorithm if you take the point of view of the Skinnerian prison. Unless you believe in some divine "spark" or "soul", humans are simply incredibly complex organic machines.

How do you think your personality was developed? It is a combination of your genes (starting point) combined with your experiences even from being a small baby. Those experiences are essentially data or information. How you process that data depends on the algorithm you started life with (genes). As you process more data, that algorithm evolves accordingly, which then affects how you process data in the future.

How do you make decisions later on? Based upon your personality and beliefs. How do you inherit those? From a combination of your genes and the aforementioned experiences. Everything is based upon data. Choice and consciousness do not exist in a vacuum.

Emotions are a chemical reaction, senses are electrical impulses etc. there's no proof of anything "otherworldly" about the way we work, it's ALL mechanical just with flesh and blood rather than steel.

Modifié par Myrmedus, 28 juin 2012 - 08:03 .

[Rhiens VI]

I am slightly amused that many posters in this thread wish the geth to survive, while choosing Destroy.

The geth must be destroyed. Their peace with quarians might not last. Sooner or later, the geth will evolve past the point of tech singularity, change their opinion of coexistance with organics, and then the same **** will happen again, except that there won't be Shepard to fix it. The starbrat explained that to you, didn't he?

Better be safe than sorry. Destroy all advanced synthetics, educate the galaxy about dangers posed by such, impose strict prohibitive rules about advanced AI, etc etc. That's what Shepard should strive for, if he takes starchild's information seriously.

Modifié par Rhiens VI, 28 juin 2012 - 08:34 .

[Shadowvalker]

If AI's are alive - then it would be a criminal act to make smartbombs?! Hmmm........

[DRTJR]

I doubt Daro'Xen will allow the Geth to parish from the galaxy.

[The Smitchens]

lordofdogtown19 wrote...

They may be dead but I personally don't see why they can't just be reactivated/rebuilt

Pretty much this.  All synthetics can be rebuilt.  The destroy ending just caused all the reapers (and presumably the geth) to just sorta shut down, so the hardware is still there.  It was seemingly an EMP.  Just build new hardware.  If they can rebuild the citadel and relays then that should be easy.

[JamesLegato]

The Smitchens wrote...

lordofdogtown19 wrote...

They may be dead but I personally don't see why they can't just be reactivated/rebuilt

Pretty much this.  All synthetics can be rebuilt.  The destroy ending just caused all the reapers (and presumably the geth) to just sorta shut down, so the hardware is still there.  It was seemingly an EMP.  Just build new hardware.  If they can rebuild the citadel and relays then that should be easy.

an emp that obliterates husk's, I expepct massive inturnal damage inside the reapers, its also why the normandy had to land on that planet to make repairs

[Spartas Husky]

Tey are still alive. Forget the bs bioware spewed out.

Control sends a signal to control reapers... but u cant send a signla to destroy the same things?

They live on without any harm being done.
Otherwise, you,garrus, liara, every asari, every quarian,most drell, most assassins, spies, special investigators, every truck, machine, autominer,biotic etc etc etc

would be dead.

[Psile_01]

TamiBx wrote...

Sundance31us wrote...

 7:45


Child: "But be warned: others will be destroyed as well."
Child: "The Crucible will not discriminate. All synthetics will be targeted."
Child: "Even you are partly synthetic..."

I want more details---

Shepard: "What exactly will happen?"
Child: "Your Crucible device appears to be largely intact. However, the effects of the blast will not be constrained to the Reapers."
Child: "Technology you rely on will be affected, but those who survive should have little difficulty repairing the damage."
Child: "There will still be losses, but no more than what has already been lost."

Seriously guys, they have machine bodies. They can be rebuilt (they might not be the same, but oh well. Sacrifices must be made)


edit: wait. The kid say the first time (without EC) that the geth would die, right? But this time it said anything lost/broken could be repaired, so it isn't exactly saying that the geth and EDI die forever...

Yeah, but the first time spacebrat also said that the relays would be destroyed and we know how that turned out...

[Spartas Husky]

And the citadel exploiting... we know how that turned out too...

and the fleets being stranded.

Also still doesn't explain... why in destroy there is rubble around ya? I thought we were at the citadel not around rubble.unless of course...

ah nvm

[Zoo Keeper Zeke]

Geth were destroyed and I'm completely fine with that. As for EDI? Just yesterday in revisiting my Renegade Shep, he was talking with EDI and one convo tree led to her very matter-of-factly stating that indeed she would gladly "die" to save Joker. She was actually very happy to have come to this realization. That doesn't mean she wants to be destroyed on whim, but if one believes Destroy is the best solution, EDI might even agree and is prepared for it.

[urazoktay]

Geth weren't destroyed...

Funyy that nobody remembers GETH CONSENSUS...

GETH were far different then Reapers, their real life was on Geth consensus, not on their platforms.

Geth are software in essence. İt doesn't make a difference if their platform went non functional.

Harbinger's saying of all synthetic life would go extinct if Shepard intends to destroy the reapers is just a trick or lack of knowledge on effects of using the crucible.

Legion and Edi mentioned several times that their HARWARE platforms were not their REAL life and therefore those platforms weren't essential to them for their existence...

And Crucible only attacks to hardware not software, otherwise all technology in the galaxy ( remember all these ships using some degrees of virtual intelligence and Normandy a real Aİ, that Aİ was EDİ also, her body was just a platform ) would revert back at least centuries. But that did not happen.

All those ships fitted with virtual intelligence, Normandy with an ai were voyaging after the destruction of the reapers.

Geth were alive. MAybe not the ones who attended to the last war but billions of software in the Geth Consensus.

İt is that simple, and i am surprised nobody noticed that. İt was hinted by EDİ and Legion in Mass Effect 3.

And also, how come Shepard survived with his synthetic upgrades? And you all people forgot that REAPERS were not Synthetics?

Remember what EDİ said at the end of ME2?

Reapers were not Synthetics, they were a hybrid of both organic and Synthetic life.

Reapers differs from the GETH in so many ways.

And if you collected enough CRUCİBLE assets you should remember from their codex that the crucible was perfectly designed to target ONLY THE REAPERS...

GETH has way more developed self awareness and free will than the Reapers,Geth eclipsed them by a long shot in these areas thanks to Shepard's efforts. ( if you choose to help them of course )

So, no, crucible did nothing to the Geth. Maybe only destroyed their platforms but that's it. Billions of them were in the servers.

And let^s say all these are wrong, then i will say to you that EDİ and GETH told you they rather die than to be a part of Reapers. Geth refused Reaper tech and their alliance offers. They willingly joined the fight even if they knew their cahances of success and survival were slim to none.

Geth essentially gained a "real life perception" " a real sense of being alive" and with their free will they joined the desperate effort of stopping the Reapers.

They already realized that even if they joined the Reapers in order to survive, it won't be anything other than slavery, assimilation, corruption...

The only right choice was to destroy the reapers right from the beginning and till the end.

İ can show innumerable proofs that supports this and opposes the others. Synth, control, refuse were all wrong choices. Refuse being the dumbest one. Synth being the most atrocious one, control being the delaying the inevitable one...

Truckloads of logical mistakes in these options...

:Let's take refusal for instance...

Yep, just for the sake of some false sense of free will ( actually, destroy wasn't a GİVEN option, you were always longing to destroy the reapers, you were at the citadel for this very reason, so all of a sudden,only because that Harbinger -starchild- told you that you had the option of destroying the reapers, it becames HİS permission, his given option to you?

Lol...

Oh, and you refuse destroying them and in the end it leads to total annihilation of all Asari, Turian, Hanar, Krogan, Drell, Volus, Elcor, Salarian, Human and many more races...

Just for what?

Just for giving a chance to other races in the next cycle for DESTROYİNG the reapers...

And finally they had managed to do that...

Pure nonsense, choosing refusal.

İf other races in the next cycle will destroy the reapers, just like what you have to do, why let all life in the Galaxy go extinct WHEN FİNALLY YOU HAD THE POWER TO DESTROY THEM?

This is the dumbest thing ever. Even if, lets say it causes GETH to die, yeah it makes more sense that ALL LİFE in the GALAXY to vanish is more preferable, lol...

You see, if you refuse, you already kill ALL advanced races in the galaxy, İNCLUDİNG GODDAMN GETH AND EDİ DAMMİT!

İt is that simple and choosing refusal is the dumbest thing to do.

And i really don't believe Geth were destroyed in destroy ending, as i mentioned how so above...

[urazoktay]

No genocide or such thing happened really, Geth were alive and well in their Geth Consensus...And they would build new platforms whenever they wanted to.

[sH0tgUn jUliA]

Sundance31us wrote...

 7:45


Child: "But be warned: others will be destroyed as well."
Child: "The Crucible will not discriminate. All synthetics will be targeted."
Child: "Even you are partly synthetic..."

I want more details---

Shepard: "What exactly will happen?"
Child: "Your Crucible device appears to be largely intact. However, the effects of the blast will not be constrained to the Reapers."
Child: "Technology you rely on will be affected, but those who survive should have little difficulty repairing the damage."
Child: "There will still be losses, but no more than what has already been lost."

Hence, in the EC it is not genocide even if they are wiped out. Why? Because it was not intentional. It is unclear. More data is needed.

Only those who played the Original Ending have the feeling of genocide:

Child: You can wipe out all synthetic life if you want, including the Geth. Even you are partly synthetic.

The reason why destroy was tainted? To sell the other two ending choices because synthesis and control could not stand on their own merits.

Refusal (added in July) was basically the middle finger to the player with a critical mission failure that passed the buck to the next cycle which did what you could not -- the real hero of that ending? Dr. Liara T'soni.

-----------------------------------

However, from the slides, the Geth are destroyed in the destroy ending. There are no Geth in any of the slides even if you made peace. There are Geth in the Control ending slides if you made peace, however. If you sided with the Geth, and chose Destroy, the slide shows a barren Rannoch.

There is not even a passing nod to the sacrifices of the Geth in the ending because the thought of genocide in the ending was so distasteful that it soured the entire game, so the writers decided to leave it to your head canon and just show the slides without and let you figure it out for yourself. This is why the wording before shooting the tube was carefully changed as well.

Make no mistake. The endings all suck. They do not belong in the game. They should have been tossed back in September 2011 and they should have gone with a different plan. A more conventional plan. It might not have been as "artsy", but FFS it would have been better and more satisfying.

Modifié par sH0tgUn jUliA, 11 avril 2013 - 07:36 .

[Spartas Husky]

If you based your self on lore... they dont die,,, if you based yourself on Casey;'s ending, they apparently die.

Up to you.

[Astartes Marine]

Sundance31us wrote...

 7:45


Child: "But be warned: others will be destroyed as well."
Child: "The Crucible will not discriminate. All synthetics will be targeted."
Child: "Even you are partly synthetic..."

I want more details---

Shepard: "What exactly will happen?"
Child: "Your Crucible device appears to be largely intact. However, the effects of the blast will not be constrained to the Reapers."
Child: "Technology you rely on will be affected, but those who survive should have little difficulty repairing the damage."
Child: "There will still be losses, but no more than what has already been lost."

This coupled with Shepard surviving makes me doubt that the Geth are gone.  We are shown no definitive proof of their loss.

[Spartas Husky]

tickle267 wrote...

the geth are full of reaper code, as is EDI, so it's probably fair to say that they'd die even if destroy only targeted reapers.

[Spartas Husky]

[quote]tickle267 wrote...


[/quote]

sorry am I missing something?[/quote]

They were both alive and sentient before the reaper code was used to upgrade. It was not the basis of their existance.

EDI was already sentient on Luna.

The Geth have been alive since 300 years prior.. Reaper codes did gave them more capacity, but is only a small percentage of who they are.

Like Mixing Chocolate milk... once mixed you cant spot where one ends and the other ones begins.

[Bill Casey]

Grifman1 wrote...

I depends on how you define life! For my part selfawareness alone is not life. Sorry..

How can something be self aware but not alive?

I got it...

*snaps fingers and points*

A ghost...

[sr2josh]

Shadowvalker wrote...

A thought:

How many of you - that seems to have a problem with the "death" of EDI and the Geth - have cried over programs that crashed - died - on your computers? If so please inform Microsoft - I bet they would like to know how much you was hurt.

I don't seem to recall any such debate regarding windows crashes? But again - maybe it's just me - a cold hearted guy.

[arathor_87]

I know that this thread is old. But since I´ve just completed the game with the extended cut for the first time, you have to accept my ressurection of this thread.   Here are my thougts on the destruction ending (with high ems) and the synthetics:

The catalyst says that others will be destroyed as well. All synthetics will be targeted. But he also says that the damage can be repaired. My opinion based on information and codex entries is that the geth can be rebuilt. Will it be the same geth as post Rannoch? No, of course it won´t. Can they be same geth as pre Rannoch? It´s not impossible. And I have no problem with this. Why? Because uploading the reaper code in Mass Effect 3 was an emergency solution to save both the geth and the quarians, and thus preventing war. If you listen to the conversations with Legion in Mass Effect 2, he said that the geth don’t need and don´t want individuality. They value togetherness. Let’s go back to why I think the geth can be rebuilt. First of all we have to understand the difference between the geth and artificial intelligence like E.D.I. According to the codex geth are mobile platforms. They are immortal and if their hardware is destroyed, archival copies of their programs and databases can be downloaded into a new body. Unlike E.D.I, the geth don´t have a quantum bluebox that resets the personality when in transferred into another quantum bluebox. Unfortunately this means that E.D.I can never be the same, even if someone tried to rebuild her. And if you have very high EMS, the codex indicates that the crucible will target reapers (synthetics with reaper code). It means that the new geth with reaper will be gone, but it doesn´t mean that the archived copies (old programs and databases) is overwritten and/or destroyed. Do I grasps for straws? Maybe. But no one can prove that this is wrong, and I can´t prove that this is 100 % correct. But after all, the geth have archival copies of their programs and databases. And since the cycle will continue, the organics will create new synthetics. So I don´t see why it would be impossible to rebuild the pre Rannoch geths. And I find it very unlikely that blast destroyed every archived copy in the galaxy. And it´s impossible to prove that it did. Yes, the geth hardware is not present in the destruction slides, but it doesn’t mean that the software is completely destroyed. I think the destroy ending with high EMS is open for different interpretations, at least if you read the codex about the crucible and the geth. If you believe that the geth are eradicated, it´s fine. But based on what we got, you can´t prove that it´s true or a fact. Just look at the codex and you will understand what I mean. The vague conversation with the catalyst won´t change this. If I rembemer correctly, someone in the development team said that you had to use the codex to find many of the answers. This is both good and bad.