it doesn't have a reasonable agenda, it's got an insane evil agenda it's programmed with. My opinion is that it creates the solutions as otherwise there would be solutions that don't meet its insane agenda.
Rightfully so.
Which begs the question, why is the Catalyst allowing anything? It's "system" is still working. The hairless apes got closer than the bug people, but have still failed.
Are you expecting everyone to just pause while Shepard stands there twiddling his/her thumbs while choosing?
Yes. This is a choice that affects the entire freaking galaxy. A reasonable amount of time to parley and consider would not be unreasonable. Even consult with Hackett, current and former squad members, Crucible people, etc.
"But take heart, look around you. YOU ARE NOT IN THIS FIGHT ALONE"
Why would it include Destroy at all if it has such control?
Why does it allow anything? Why doesn't it leave Shepard to bleed out on the floor? Why didn't it have some husks waiting for Shepard and Anderson when they boarded? Why didn't it shut down the conduit to the Citadel when Hammer was gearing up for an assault? Why didn't it shut down the relay network before Sword fleet arrived?
Why would it include Destroy at all if it has such control?
Why does it allow anything? Why doesn't it leave Shepard to bleed out on the floor? Why didn't it have some husks waiting for Shepard and Anderson when they boarded? Why didn't it shut down the conduit to the Citadel when Hammer was gearing up for an assault? Why didn't it shut down the relay network before Sword fleet arrived?
It is this line of thinking that lends me towards the "Catalyst was hacked by the Crucible" theory. It's not a theory that I particularly like, but it would explain why the Catalyst appears to be forced to tell 'the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth' to the nearest convenient organic...
Guest_StreetMagic_*
Why does it allow anything? Why doesn't it leave Shepard to bleed out on the floor? Why didn't it have some husks waiting for Shepard and Anderson when they boarded? Why didn't it shut down the conduit to the Citadel when Hammer was gearing up for an assault? Why didn't it shut down the relay network before Sword fleet arrived?
Because it already lost. The point of the choices is where to go from there. There needs to be some other solution besides the harvest now.
It is this line of thinking that lends me towards the "Catalyst was hacked by the Crucible" theory. It's not a theory that I particularly like, but it would explain why the Catalyst appears to be forced to tell 'the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth' to the nearest convenient organic...
Except "THe crucible is little more than a power source"
Because it already lost. The point of the choices is where to go from there. There needs to be some other solution besides the harvest now.
That's just it, the Catalyst could have outright won at any time. There was no reason to offer choices of any kind.
Why does it allow anything? Why doesn't it leave Shepard to bleed out on the floor? Why didn't it have some husks waiting for Shepard and Anderson when they boarded? Why didn't it shut down the conduit to the Citadel when Hammer was gearing up for an assault? Why didn't it shut down the relay network before Sword fleet arrived?
Which begs the question, why is the Catalyst allowing anything? It's "system" is still working. The hairless apes got closer than the bug people, but have still failed.
Yes. This is a choice that affects the entire freaking galaxy. A reasonable amount of time to parley and consider would not be unreasonable. Even consult with Hackett, current and former squad members, Crucible people, etc.
"But take heart, look around you. YOU ARE NOT IN THIS FIGHT ALONE"
Guest_StreetMagic_*
Except "THe crucible is little more than a power source"
That's just it, the Catalyst could have outright won at any time. There was no reason to offer choices of any kind.
More to the point, it's not even about winning in it's mind. "There is no war. There is only the Harvest."
All it cares about is solutions to the organic/synthetic issues. It doesn't view things as winning/losing in the way we do. What it sees is that you've changed the parameters and made it's approach obsolete. It's open to something else.. the Harvest is over with. Unless you're retarded enough to pick refuse.
Except "THe crucible is little more than a power source"
Well yeah, but you've also got "The Crucible changed me and created new possibilities". It could be, say, 90% power source and 10% hacking.
Of course, I'd really like to hear from the Catalyst's mouth what it means by "But [the fact that you got this far] also proves that my solution won't work any more".
If Destroy is chosen it is probably safe to assume that the Geth do end up annihilated. We know that EDI dies, since her name ends up on the Normandy Memorial Wall. And for the most part the Catalyst's predictions about what the Crucible will do when it is fired are shown to be accurate in the Extended Cut epilogues.
Genocide isn't really the right word to use however, unless the player intends to destroy the Geth. But then why wait to Priority: Earth when you could do that at Rannoch? If Shepard doesn't intend for the Geth to be annihilated than their demise in Destroy is a horrific example of collateral damage, and not an example of mass murder.
Having said that, the Catalyst also mentions in discussing the effects of Destroy that anything destroyed by the Crucible can be rebuilt. He also states that in response to being asked how it will affect Synthetics. So there is always the possibility that EDI and the Geth might be rebuilt. They might not necessarily be the same individuals, but the Geth as a faction might survive. EDI in fact was destroyed and rebuilt once before, after that N7 mission on Luna.
If they're not bright enough to choose one of the superior solutions by using the device they've poured unimaginable resources into building, then, yes, they deserve the alternative and for the old system to keep on keeping on until folks stop acting like partially-evolved apes.
Except if the Reapers had shut down the relays at the start like they normally do, the Crucible never would have been built.
If they had shut down the relays when they moved the Citadel to Earth, they couldn't have gotten the fleet there in time to do anything
If they had shut down the conduit before Hammer's assault, Shepard never would have made it onto the Citadel
If there were husks waiting by the Conduit, a wounded Shepard and Anderson would have been overwhelmed and killed before opening the arms
If the Catalyst hadn't activated the Magic Space Elevator, Shepard would have bled out without activating the Crucible.
All this demonstrates that the Catalyst offering Destroy as an option becomes much less of an oddity when you realize that the Catalyst has been acting so incompetently it's been playing Suicide by Human for the entire game.
Why on Earth would anyone, especially organics, believe that this was going to be respected by everyone just sitting around and waiting?
The organics can't win. There's tens of thousands of Reapers all over the place, not to mention the Bioware Railroad Plot. If it's "make an choice or rocks fall", the polite thing to do is to allow some time to discuss.
What does this have to do with anything?
You're right: you're not in this fight alone. Never were. None of this would've been possible without the pooled resources and efforts of the galaxy.
And in the end, when Shepard has to make a choice that will literally reshape the galaxy, Shepard stands alone.
Genocide isn't really the right word to use however, unless the player intends to destroy the Geth. But then why wait to Priority: Earth when you could do that at Rannoch? If Shepard doesn't intend for the Geth to be annihilated than their demise in Destroy is a horrific example of collateral damage, and not an example of mass murder.
People get upset when I use the term "holocaust" instead. Even though it is technically the more proper term.
You know: "sacrifice"
Guest_StreetMagic_*
If Destroy is chosen it is probably safe to assume that the Geth do end up annihilated. We know that EDI dies, since her name ends up on the Normandy Memorial Wall. And for the most part the Catalyst's predictions about what the Crucible will do when it is fired are shown to be accurate in the Extended Cut epilogues.
Genocide isn't really the right word to use however, unless the player intends to destroy the Geth. But then why wait to Priority: Earth when you could do that at Rannoch? If Shepard doesn't intend for the Geth to be annihilated than their demise in Destroy is a horrific example of collateral damage, and not an example of mass murder.
Having said that, the Catalyst also mentions in discussing the effects of Destroy that anything destroyed by the Crucible can be rebuilt. He also states that in response to being asked how it will affect Synthetics. So there is always the possibility that EDI and the Geth might be rebuilt. They might not necessarily be the same individuals, but the Geth as a faction might survive. EDI in fact was destroyed and rebuilt once before, after that N7 mission on Luna.
I prefer killing them at Rannoch. To me, it's a matter of principle. Not accident. I only think it sucks if typical synthetics get fried (like Legion used to be). I don't care about the ones based on Reaper tech. I think if you've accepted that, you might as well go for Control or Synthesis in the end.
People get upset when I use the term "holocaust" instead. Even though it is technically the more proper term.
You know: "sacrifice"
Holocaust is not a proper term if you are making a metaphorical allusion to WWII and the treatment of Jews, and other people by the Nazis during WWII. This is because the Nazis had a particular nationalistic ideology (German nationalism), that was both religious (Christanity, more so strident Catholocism) and pseudoscientific (eugenics) in nature. I think genocide, or mass slaughter are better terms for you to use when considering what happens to the Geth during the destroy ending, because they are more general terms and therfore not associated with specific real life historical events.
Notice the lower-case "h", a term which has been around far before the 20th century
edit: but that's the last I'll say on that. Just pointing out there are a number of ugly terms that can describe what happens to the geth
Guest_StreetMagic_*
We know the Destroy wave doesn't destroy ALL tech - I always thought it'd be amusing if it specifically targeted Reaper tech and that's why it targeted the Geth, right after you saved them and gave meaning to their existence (this semi-retcon always irritated me though, as Legion was perfectly content with the way the Geth were in ME2).
That's why I kill him in 3.. Before he was all about the "geth building their own future" and if you the destroy the base, "we're more than alike than we thought. You also want to build your own future" (I'm paraphrasing this bit).
All we're saving in 3 is something like Heretics.. and pretty much giving them what Saren/Sovereign were going to do anyways: Reaper upgrades (same kind of goes for curing the genophage too. Everything is coming full circle with these choices).
Except if the Reapers had shut down the relays at the start like they normally do, the Crucible never would have been built.
If they had shut down the relays when they moved the Citadel to Earth, they couldn't have gotten the fleet there in time to do anything
If they had shut down the conduit before Hammer's assault, Shepard never would have made it onto the Citadel
If there were husks waiting by the Conduit, a wounded Shepard and Anderson would have been overwhelmed and killed before opening the arms
If the Catalyst hadn't activated the Magic Space Elevator, Shepard would have bled out without activating the Crucible.
All this demonstrates that the Catalyst offering Destroy as an option becomes much less of an oddity when you realize that the Catalyst has been acting so incompetently it's been playing Suicide by Human for the entire game.
The organics can't win. There's tens of thousands of Reapers all over the place, not to mention the Bioware Railroad Plot. If it's "make an choice or rocks fall", the polite thing to do is to allow some time to discuss.
And in the end, when Shepard has to make a choice that will literally reshape the galaxy, Shepard stands alone.
The Crucible wasn't believed to be a problem any longer, fanning out across the galaxy for shock and awe actually aided them, and they preserved the illusion of safety enough so the dumb critters in this cycle didn't try to blow up any more relays. And they still almost won.
Fanning out across the galaxy got more Reapers killed than they had in most cycles, even without the Crucible.
Most cycles they don't lose even a single Sovereign-class
Which also prevents other Reapers from traveling there and everywhere else at that point. Why do so, anyway? What repercussions would that create?
They control the relays. They can open and close whatever ones they wish. Like they've done in every cycle before this.
Why would they do that? It still served a purpose.
And the purpose was...what? to get a couple of apes onto the Citadel and frak up the Catalyst's plans? 
The ones that remained there after the charge almost did stop Shepard.
And yet they didn't. Did the Catalyst only have three husks and a marauder available to repel borders?
Maybe, maybe not. Shepard still had enough oomph to get up and walk around, and who knows what kind of Lazarus contingencies are underneath that skin. Also, how certain are you that the Catalyst lifted that elevator instead of a pressure sensor or a triggered button on the console?
Which in two thousand years had never been activated until that very moment? 
Doesn't seem all that incompetent to me, especially since the Reapers still came very close to winning.
Except it shouldn't have been a contest. The Reapers should have won by slaughter rule. Literally. The deck was stacked so badly the only way the Reapers could have lost is if the Catalyst was suicidal. That it wanted Shepard to kill it from the very start.
... polite? Polite?
I don't even know how to really respond to that. Why would the organics believe one iota of this? Why would the Reapers just stop and let the organics do damage? Why on Earth is "politeness" a factor?
Instead of, what, phoning a friend? Developing a consensus?
Yup. Why would the organics believe any of this? Why should Shepard believe any of this?
Shepard: "Hackett? Patch me in to the Crucible specialists. This glowing child of a little boy I saw die a few months ago claims that shooting this pipe will activate the Crucible and end all synthetic life in the galaxy. I need to know if it's just blowing smoke"
Kasumi: "So that's what that pipe does!"
Yeah, phoning a friend or developing a consensus, or at least doing some due diligence might be a little bit important when you're reshaping the galaxy. Especially since your only source of information is a being with every reason to lie, has mind-control powers, and has been committing extinction level events for a billion years or so. Oh, and is operating on faulty logic to begin with.
So once they couldn't get control of the Citadel by normal means they needed indoctrinated forces to take control of it for them - Cerberus.
* The Cerberus Coup - failed.
* Then The Illusive Man had the Thessia Archives from the Mars Archives (or did your Shadow Broker miss that one) ass pull.
* And while we were chasing after that
* Cerberus took over the Citadel because Commander Shepard was looking for Vendetta.
Now if this failed, what were the Reapers to do? Starve out the Citadel? Because if they attack the Citadel buttons up.
What this thread proves is that Shepard was so overpowered that the galaxy could not stand on its own. No one could do anything without Shepard. And that the reapers were so overpowered that it required a whole new level of plot stupid for them to lose.
Maybe, maybe not. Shepard still had enough oomph to get up and walk around, and who knows what kind of Lazarus contingencies are underneath that skin.
If you believe that, then you believe she had enough oomph to shoot at the tube from a distance instead of having to walk towards it.
Fanning out across the galaxy got more Reapers killed than they had in most cycles, even without the Crucible.
Most cycles they don't lose even a single Sovereign-class
They control the relays. They can open and close whatever ones they wish. Like they've done in every cycle before this.
And the purpose was...what? to get a couple of apes onto the Citadel and frak up the Catalyst's plans?
And yet they didn't. Did the Catalyst only have three husks and a marauder available to repel borders?
Which in two thousand years had never been activated until that very moment?
Except it shouldn't have been a contest. The Reapers should have won by slaughter rule. Literally. The deck was stacked so badly the only way the Reapers could have lost is if the Catalyst was suicidal. That it wanted Shepard to kill it from the very start.
Yup. Why would the organics believe any of this? Why should Shepard believe any of this?
Shepard: "Hackett? Patch me in to the Crucible specialists. This glowing child of a little boy I saw die a few months ago claims that shooting this pipe will activate the Crucible and end all synthetic life in the galaxy. I need to know if it's just blowing smoke"
Yeah, phoning a friend or developing a consensus, or at least doing some due diligence might be a little bit important when you're reshaping the galaxy.
Especially since your only source of information is a being with every reason to lie, has mind-control powers, and has been committing extinction level events for a billion years or so. Oh, and is operating on faulty logic to begin with.
If you believe that, then you believe she had enough oomph to shoot at the tube from a distance instead of having to walk towards it.
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