222 réponses à ce sujet

[wizardryforever]

Darth Asriel wrote...

Hey Wizardryforever, Hackett says "we still don't know how the d--n thing works." that's a stupid plan!! How does he know the Reapers didn't leave it there on purpose? How does he know it's not the Reapers final trap? He has no evidence that the crucible will work. But we do know that we developed new weapons after we fought Sovereign. We know that the Normandy took out the collector ship with 2 shots from a Thanix Cannon. We know Turian Fighters are equipped with Thanix Cannons. No one in there right mind would waste resources and time on the crucible. Too many unknown variables

Yeah, and those Turians with widespread Thanix cannons are pushing the Reapers off of Palaven!  Oh, wait, that doesn't happen.  Conventional means, including pulling out all the stops in terms of weapon development, simply can't win.  There's no guarantee that the Crucible will work, but there is a guarantee that nothing else will.  So you either go with certain destruction, or the unknown.  The unknown could also lead to destruction, but it's the only thing that has the potential to work against the Reapers.  In that case, anyone with an actual working brain goes with the unknown, and takes a chance.  You have nothing to lose by going with the Crucible, since no other option is viable, and you have much to gain if it works.  How it works is ultimately irrelevant in the face of certain destruction otherwise.

[LoboFH]

Pitznik wrote...

LoboFH wrote...


How old are you?

Do you need a happy Hollywood ending always to go warm to bed?

These endings are about choices, sacrifices, free will. The refusal ending is the shout of a free man who refuses to eat the crap of the Catalyst and chooses to stand up even if he dies trying. But they will fight.

Some defeats are better than victories.

While I see some charm in the refusal ending/epilogue, I don't really think Shepard has the right to refuse - sacrifing whole galaxy of your age in the name of principles and morals might look good, but there is too much responsibility on him that he could afford it. Just a slight OT.

Perfect point.

There are four choices. Choose one, you are Shepard, it's your Mass Effect.

I prefer Destruction and Synthesis myself, but I love they added Refusal Option, it was a very needed option.

[cerberus1701]

One person brought up the Borg.

Don't.

The Borg were defeated because they were heaviy used by Voyager. The only way a ship with 150 people and no safe harbor could win was to completely neuter the Borg.

They did. It was a joke.

I'm glad at least that the Reapers weren't wussified like the Borg.

[Liber320]

Mainly because it would make all the other endings pointless. Unless, of course, there are major sacrifices involved

[OblivionDawn]

You misinterpreting the game as a sandbox =/= an insult on the developers' part.

[DirgeSinger]

TudorWolf wrote...

The games doesn't beat you over the head with "we can't win conventionally" just for laughs you know.

It's not an insult to show you what you should freaking expect by saying no to the crucible. We aren't as advanced as some previous cycles were and they were wiped out just as surely. We have some advantages like the still functional relays but that's not enough. The reapers are too strong and too numerous to beat. Why is this such an impossible concept to grasp for some people?

I don't find that they showed this particularly well in the third game. In the cutscenes and even in a lot of the dialogue it really does seem that the Fleets are more than holding their own--and the reapers don't look that numerous compared to the Fleets.

I much prefer the new endings to the old. I really enjoyed my Shep who chose Synthesis--the new version ending was perfect for him.

I do also really think Mria's idea of pointing the Catalyst to the glaring flaw in his logic that is the Geth/Quarians at peace, though... For a being supposedly based on logic, he is highly illogical in this regard. Moreover, you have EDI in your crew--another excellent example the game does not allow you to even mention, much less intelligently counter.

[Biotic Flash Kick]

sydranark wrote...

I'm sick of people saying it was an insult.

Just because it was terrible writing doesn't mean they were trying to hurt your feelings. That said, they were boasting their authority and control over the game. But thats them inflating their own ego, not necessarily trying to hurt you.

how about thsi then
bioware said no news endings
refusal is a new ending
a new ending we dont want and had nothing to do with what wedeserved to have

[vasametropolis]

Master Che wrote...

Their story. Not yours. And now you have a new way to fail...if you consider the hopes of another cycle learning from your mistake and defeating the Reapers a total failure.

I agree. If you're too much of an idealist it will eventually bite you, and that's the point. If you choose to refuse and stick by your ideals, you still win. You put the effort in, and you left the future of the galaxy to someone else. If you prefer to think this way, then consider your hands clean.

[cavs25]

SNascimento wrote...

You can't win the war with the reapers conventionally. That was clear from anyone first ME3 playthrough. So, when you turn down the crucible, you can't expect anything but defeat.

At least let us go down as warriors, not looking like a deer in the healights 

[warlock22]

Master Che wrote...

Their story. Not yours. And now you have a new way to fail...if you consider the hopes of another cycle learning from your mistake and defeating the Reapers a total failure.

Ok I am sick of this sh*t. Casey Hudson has always sadi that Mass Effect is about "your" story not "a" story! Look up his quote's. And it is an insult, because we dont agree with Casey Hudson's "artistic vision".

[Evil Minion]

The Mad Hanar wrote...

People who think conventional victory is possible weren't paying very good attention during the series.

- It took the entire Alliance fleet to take Sovereign down, while he wasn't fighting back.

-It took a good chunk of the Qurian fleet to take down the Reaper on Rannoch, while he wasn't fighting back.

-It took the world's biggest Thresher Maw to take down a small Reaper.

-The Hammer team was getting over run on Earth.

They listened to the fans while keeping consistency in mind.

You shouldn't try to confuse people with logic. :happy:

[coolbeans]

warlock22 wrote...

Master Che wrote...

Their story. Not yours. And now you have a new way to fail...if you consider the hopes of another cycle learning from your mistake and defeating the Reapers a total failure.

Ok I am sick of this sh*t. Casey Hudson has always sadi that Mass Effect is about "your" story not "a" story! Look up his quote's. And it is an insult, because we dont agree with Casey Hudson's "artistic vision".

I dunno man, Casey Hudson says a lot of things <_<

[N-Seven]

warlock22 wrote...

Master Che wrote...

Their story. Not yours. And now you have a new way to fail...if you consider the hopes of another cycle learning from your mistake and defeating the Reapers a total failure.

Ok I am sick of this sh*t. Casey Hudson has always sadi that Mass Effect is about "your" story not "a" story! Look up his quote's. And it is an insult, because we dont agree with Casey Hudson's "artistic vision".

And I'm equally sick of people throwing around the 'Your story!  Your story!' spiel.  It can't be 100% your story.   No game has ever been, even the best of the sandbox games, and no RPG game, video or even pen-and-paper, ever will.  It's a story written by other people, that can be shaped, to a limited extent, by players.  You want your story, write your own. 

[The Anti-Saint]

I too remember the "can't be beaten conventionally" concept. This is hard coded cannon that should never be changed. They could have shown the final battle, but it would just show what we already know happens...everyone gets perished.

[The Anti-Saint]

The Mad Hanar wrote...

People who think conventional victory is possible weren't paying very good attention during the series.

- It took the entire Alliance fleet to take Sovereign down, while he wasn't fighting back.

-It took a good chunk of the Qurian fleet to take down the Reaper on Rannoch, while he wasn't fighting back.

-It took the world's biggest Thresher Maw to take down a small Reaper.

-The Hammer team was getting over run on Earth.

They listened to the fans while keeping consistency in mind.

^
This

[Evo_9]

SilentWolfie wrote...

I can absolutely predict that people are going to go bananas and be happy with that decision, and yet we get the part where "SO BE IT" low, angry voice, and cutscene humanity + galaxy loses. It's not even a fan's ending, not even a pat on the back to us for trying to get better endings. Apparently EMS doesn't matter one single bit...

I saw Allan Schumacher seemingly trying to defend Bioware's decision on this ending, BUT, I'm using a huge BUT here, Bioware knew the general public sentiments are in disagreement towards the original ending, and writing this sort of refusal ending is an extreme disservice and a rehash and remake of the "original ending".

Are we to speculate once again whether this is a slap to the fans or it's our artistic vision, take it or leave it?

Even if the idea is to defend "their artistic vision", the very least they had better clarify the crap out of it, pardon my angry rebuttal here, so everyone who wants to defend Bioware can kiss my --- never mind........

What...?

I'm just kidding. Really!



Anyway, another epic failure by Bioware. This was very likely made out of spite and anyone who tries to defend this ending, honestly, should understand the writers don't want to the players to be happy about playing this ending (maybe one can be satisfied on getting to shoot Star Jar, but it is absolutely not meant to be a happy ending, not even bittersweet). Getting upset and angry? Yes. For whatever reason, many players are angry, that's a fact.

So am I right or wrong? High EMS + Refuse = Victory will be the best ending, right?

You cant beat the reapers without the 3 choices.

They cant be beaten conventionally.

It took our whole starfleet to slow down soverign and we only killed him when his shields were down.

EMS only assists the three other choices, refusal is just suicide.

Would be the stupiest mistake ever if they allowed the reapers to be defeated in the refusal ending IMO.

[Evo_9]

The Anti-Saint wrote...

The Mad Hanar wrote...

People who think conventional victory is possible weren't paying very good attention during the series.

- It took the entire Alliance fleet to take Sovereign down, while he wasn't fighting back.

-It took a good chunk of the Qurian fleet to take down the Reaper on Rannoch, while he wasn't fighting back.

-It took the world's biggest Thresher Maw to take down a small Reaper.

-The Hammer team was getting over run on Earth.

They listened to the fans while keeping consistency in mind.

^
This

Sorry missed this post....

and yes....

THIS!!! 

[Allan Schumacher]

I saw Allan Schumacher seemingly trying to defend Bioware's decision on this ending

Regardless of my actual defense of BioWare specifically, I do want to make it clear that it's as much me defending my preference for how I would have gone through with this.

I find the choice more interesting if it's presented as a fail case. Especially when contrasted with the other endings. In many ways because I can respect someone that is willing to face certain death to stand by their convictions.

I can agree that it'd be cool to flesh it out more (I'd love to see an epic space battle of the fleet doing desperate measures to take as many ships down with it), and it sucks that some people think that it's an insult. Unfortunately I can't do much about either of those.

My support of this ending though is less about defending the company I work for and more about defending the type of game experiences I find interesting as a gamer.

[TheImmortalBeaver]

Evo_9 wrote...

The Anti-Saint wrote...

The Mad Hanar wrote...

People who think conventional victory is possible weren't paying very good attention during the series.

- It took the entire Alliance fleet to take Sovereign down, while he wasn't fighting back.

-It took a good chunk of the Qurian fleet to take down the Reaper on Rannoch, while he wasn't fighting back.

-It took the world's biggest Thresher Maw to take down a small Reaper.

-The Hammer team was getting over run on Earth.

They listened to the fans while keeping consistency in mind.

^
This

Sorry missed this post....

and yes....

THIS!!! 

Ditto. Brillaint point.

Also, I still don't see why Refuse is such a bad ending. It's not what I would choose, but I certainly don't think it's a "bad" ending. The next cycle still makes it, and that's pretty epic.

[TheImmortalBeaver]

Allan Schumacher wrote...

I saw Allan Schumacher seemingly trying to defend Bioware's decision on this ending

Regardless of my actual defense of BioWare specifically, I do want to make it clear that it's as much me defending my preference for how I would have gone through with this.

I find the choice more interesting if it's presented as a fail case. Especially when contrasted with the other endings. In many ways because I can respect someone that is willing to face certain death to stand by their convictions.

I can agree that it'd be cool to flesh it out more (I'd love to see an epic space battle of the fleet doing desperate measures to take as many ships down with it), and it sucks that some people think that it's an insult. Unfortunately I can't do much about either of those.

My support of this ending though is less about defending the company I work for and more about defending the type of game experiences I find interesting as a gamer.

I don't think you're allowed to do that. Everyone knows that BioWare is paying you to say these things!  My tinfoil hat speaks the truth!

Oh, and I thought Refuse was pretty cool too. Just in case sarcasm doesn't translate well over the internet.

[IanPolaris]

Allan Schumacher wrote...

I saw Allan Schumacher seemingly trying to defend Bioware's decision on this ending

Regardless of my actual defense of BioWare specifically, I do want to make it clear that it's as much me defending my preference for how I would have gone through with this.

I find the choice more interesting if it's presented as a fail case. Especially when contrasted with the other endings. In many ways because I can respect someone that is willing to face certain death to stand by their convictions.

I can agree that it'd be cool to flesh it out more (I'd love to see an epic space battle of the fleet doing desperate measures to take as many ships down with it), and it sucks that some people think that it's an insult. Unfortunately I can't do much about either of those.

My support of this ending though is less about defending the company I work for and more about defending the type of game experiences I find interesting as a gamer.

One big problem a lot of us are having is that one of your co-workers (Gamble) acting in his official capicity wouldn't or couldn't just let things be and allow us to 'head canon' how the next cycle defeated the reapers.  Had nothing been said, it would have been a lot better, but we are now specifically told by a BIOWARE employee acting in his official capacity that, "Oh the next cycle used the crucible anyway" making Shepard's morality and refusal completely pointless.

How should we, the fans, take this as anything other than an FU?

-Polaris

[wizardryforever]

IanPolaris wrote...
How should we, the fans, take this as anything other than an FU?

How about taking it as a reality check?

[IanPolaris]

The Mad Hanar wrote...

Another thing. If refusal ended in victory, all the other choices would've been invalidated.

Not necessarily.  A "refusal victory" might be very hard to attain.  Maybe it requires a perfect game (all possible war assets) and the completetion of some special mission or something.  (The Leviathan of Dis seems like a good candidate).  In that case if you missed something, you don't choose refuse (unless you want to lose).

For that matter, even if you DO lose this cycle, your EMS should be shown to matter and set things up for the next cycle.  With a high enough EMS, perhaps the next cycle CAN beat the Reapers on their own terms even if your cycle could not.

-Polaris