234 réponses à ce sujet

[kyban]

MyChemicalBromance wrote...

If you want a happy unchallenging ending go play a different game. It's that simple.

The problem is that anoter game is not the ending to the Mass Effect trilogy. We fell in love with this story, and it did not conclude the way many people wanted. To some, it was not a victory.

I feel for you OP. Bioware has succeeded in pulling the wool over people's eyes, the rogue AI catalyst was not the ending that Mass Effect should have had.

[Siansonea]

I have no sympathy for people who want an artificially happy ending just because "it's a video game". Watch the Disney Channel if that's what you want.

[Miekkas]

Emzamination wrote...

Miekkas wrote...

I think all four endings have revolting themes whether it be committing genocide, becoming an uncontrollable god, forced eugenics, or committing the Galaxy to a slow death. You're forced into a poorly written and executed situation that should not have existed to begin with.

I shot the tube in the faint hope that EDI and the geth can be restored based on some interpretations of what the StarBrat says.

Why would a god need to be controlled?

Otherwise we end up with StarBrat and the Mass Effect 3 endings all over again.

[CronoDragoon]

Just because there was a sacrifice does not mean we didn't win. In the EC, it is made clear we saved much more than we lost.

[WillSheperd_1982]

scrapmetals wrote...

Hm. I see attacking people for their opinions as childish, but that's just me. I get it, yanno, that there's only one right answer in everything and someone's GOTTA be wrong. Individuality has to be shot down with scathing sarcasm and attacks! Love it.

Anyway, whatever, I'm off to watch The Avengers. It's got the same plot as Mass Effect 3 essentially, but even less people to do it with and, oh, hey, everyone lives, even the idiot that tried to sacrifice himself.

Odd. It's okay to do it in movies but not in a video game...

I don't see very many people in this topic attacking you, it's just that we have different standards when it comes to "winning." Like I said before, I personally understand your disappointment and see no problem with your opinion, it's too bad it doesn't mesh with Bioware's vision of what "winning" means. 

And since the idea of winning is relative you can't really objectively say that Bioware's idea of winning is wrong, only that it doesn't match your idea of winning. In this case, good that you made this topic to get your disappointment off your chest, but it's time to move on and look for other games to fill the void.

Number of times the word "winning" used in post: 6

[kyban]

scrapmetals wrote...

Hm. I see attacking people for their opinions as childish, but that's just me. I get it, yanno, that there's only one right answer in everything and someone's GOTTA be wrong. Individuality has to be shot down with scathing sarcasm and attacks! Love it.

Anyway, whatever, I'm off to watch The Avengers. It's got the same plot as Mass Effect 3 essentially, but even less people to do it with and, oh, hey, everyone lives, even the idiot that tried to sacrifice himself.

Odd. It's okay to do it in movies but not in a video game...

Love this. I've compared the Avengers to Mass Effect on more than one occasion. and you're right.

[Grimwick]

CronoDragoon wrote...

Just because there was a sacrifice does not mean we didn't win. In the EC, it is made clear we saved much more than we lost.

We still end up doing exactly what the reapers want.

We still lose overall.

[Siansonea]

Grimwick wrote...

CronoDragoon wrote...

Just because there was a sacrifice does not mean we didn't win. In the EC, it is made clear we saved much more than we lost.

We still end up doing exactly what the reapers want.

We still lose overall.

Wait, the Reapers wanted us to destroy them?

[v3paR]

scrapmetals wrote...

Hm. I see attacking people for their opinions as childish, but that's just me. I get it, yanno, that there's only one right answer in everything and someone's GOTTA be wrong. Individuality has to be shot down with scathing sarcasm and attacks! Love it.

Anyway, whatever, I'm off to watch The Avengers. It's got the same plot as Mass Effect 3 essentially, but even less people to do it with and, oh, hey, everyone lives, even the idiot that tried to sacrifice himself.

Odd. It's okay to do it in movies but not in a video game...

The problem is you can't do much. Thats why i said i want Megan Fox in Transformers 3.
Mass Effect is BioWare game. We can ask them for things but in the end its them who decide how it will be done.

And about Avengers. Check the age requirements for it and then for ME. You will know why no one dies.

[NM_Che56]

Grimwick wrote...

Master Che wrote...

Grimwick wrote...

Taboo-XX wrote...

Grimwick wrote...

Taboo-XX wrote...

I won. I don't know what your issue is OP.

You won?

How? It's just not possible.

I won. 

I got EVERYTHING I wanted. EVERYTHING.

Fantastic to hear.

I however am still forced into doing the reapers bidding and into killing myself. Seems we have very different definitions of winning.

Reapers want to die?

Starchild controls the reapers. Starchild provides all your options. Ergo you are doing the reaper's bidding.

Starchild built the crucible?
Reapers want to die?

I try killing you for the past 5 years. You get a gun. You get bullets. I say "you can shoot me".  You shoot me.  I die. 

I win? 

Hell! I'd want to lose!  

[NM_Che56]

Siansonea II wrote...

Grimwick wrote...

CronoDragoon wrote...

Just because there was a sacrifice does not mean we didn't win. In the EC, it is made clear we saved much more than we lost.

We still end up doing exactly what the reapers want.

We still lose overall.

Wait, the Reapers wanted us to destroy them?

Yeah.  I'm missing that too. 

Or...they want Shepard to control them and make them clean up after themselves?

I am missing something...

[CronoDragoon]

Grimwick wrote...

CronoDragoon wrote...

Just because there was a sacrifice does not mean we didn't win. In the EC, it is made clear we saved much more than we lost.

We still end up doing exactly what the reapers want.

We still lose overall.

Maybe if you did synthesis. The Reapers did not want Destroy. The Catalyst does not provide you with the options; they are the result of the Crucible docking with the Citadel and forcibly changing it. Destroy is the opposite of what the Catalyst wants. We won.

Edit: To clarify more, the Catalyst does not control the Crucible or the options it spawns, the Catalyst did not create the Crucible, and even more, the new EC dialogue states that if the Catalyst had known about the Crucible's existence they would have destroyed it. The Catalyst does not want the Crucible to dock, and the resulting choices are not choices HE is providing you.

Guys, the Catalyst's dialogue in the new EC clears up a lot about both him and the Crucible. Did everyone just tune it out because they hated the Catalyst that much?

Modifié par CronoDragoon, 28 juin 2012 - 05:14 .

[darkiddd]

scrapmetals wrote...

It's as simple as that. I mean, sure, it's going to happen, but a video game never permanently screws you over for losing.

Why is it the case here? Why are we LETTING it be the case? Sure, let them have bad endings, that's not what I'm talking about, a lot of games like Mass Effect, that let you choose stuff, have bad endings, fine.

But in the end, I play a video game for one reason, and one reason only - to play a big *Zaeed* hero and overcome impossible odds. And if the Reaper's are anything, they're impossible odds. But it's a video game. So why can't I beat them conventionally?

And don't give me militaristic statistics, don't give me plans of action, don't tell me it won't work because -

It's. A. Video. Game. It SHOULD work, because it's worked before. What the hell did I spend all my time doing those side quests for? Why did I take care of my people in 1 and 2, why did I spend every moment in 2 making sure they were happy so they wouldn't die?

Just so they could, uhm. Die? Lose  synthetics despite all you've done to garner peace - and for all intents and purposes, we can say you succeed. Synthesize everyone - didn't that work for the ****s? Control - yeah, because I'm going to do what the Illusive Man wanted ("it can't be forced but hey now that you're here we can do it I guess").

No, you know what? I'm a selfish, entitled brat that wanted a happy ending. Hell, I would have even taken the blue babies even though I didn't want them (I wanted the turian or krogan or maybe even prothean babies but thaaaat's beside the point...)

I killed Sovereign in the first game. Sure, there were some casualties, but REALLY, not THAT many. And I kicked the baby Reaper's ass so easily it hurt.

I don't care how many Reapers there were vs how many of us there were. I UNITED THE GALAXY FOR THIS. And when I refuse to give in the Catalyst's dumb ass logic - and it's still REALLY stupid, even MORE stupid, with the questioning, like I'm going to trust a rogue AI that ate it's creators to turn them into Reapers - I'm told that no. The galaxy I united wasn't enough.

I'm told that synthetics can never be at peace with organics, no matter what, despite what I've just accomplished between the quarians and geth, and I'm still given three bad, losing decisions to take care of the "problem".

This is what I refuse, because I don't stick with a game for 7 years, I don't come to care about it's characters and what happens next, I don't do as much as I can for those characters to make sure they survive, I don't make hard choices for the good of the galaxy and not just my team JUST for them to say...

"No. You can't. It is impossible. And no, despite what you've learned from the second game, despite what you've learned and accomplished here between the two, synthetics and organics just will never get along. Peace is impossible."

This isn't art, it's a video game.

And until Walters and Hudson realize this, I'm going back to play Fable and Fallout. There were bad endings in those, sure - but you either had to work for them, or you knew you wanted the bad endings, or there was bad mixed with good.

You still won. You still won and while you might have felt bad about some things, you didn't feel bad about EVERY single thing.

You didn't realize that everyone's sacrifice was futile.

You still won.

Like I said, I am an entitled selfish whining brat, and I'm damn proud of it. You got anything else you can call me?

to be fair you don't lose (or at least not completely) if you reject his choices and neither if you don't reject its choices. But oh boy it is so difficult to play by his rules... I hate him so much  

[Galbrant]

krukow wrote...

Galbrant wrote...

krukow wrote...

Shoot the tube. Seriously, if your ems is high, it's a totally uplifting victory.

I mean, EDI dies,but this is freaking war. There was going to be a cost. On the other hand you get:
living shepard (dev confirmed)
LI not putting up your nameplate
Galaxy rebuilding (relays/citadel just damaged)
HACKETT VICTORY SPEECH TO RULE ALL~


Shoot the tube.

You also forgot the death of the Geth too.... I didn't spent my time hammering out a peace treaty with the Quarians and the Geth, just so I can have them all killed because of some stupid artistic vision. Refusal is the only logical choice. I am willing to sacrifice my self to kill the reapers, but I'll be damn I sacrifice some one else to die for me.

You don't want to kill the geth, so you'll just let the reapers kill everyone?

...

I have no reason to believe a word from my enemy is telling the truth for all I know those three choices could be a trap, especially from some one who killed his creators and turn them into the first reapers.  We have no idea who originally came up with the crucible or what the hell it was for, again it could be a ploy to trap organics. 

[Grimwick]

Master Che wrote...

Grimwick wrote...

Master Che wrote...

Grimwick wrote...

Taboo-XX wrote...

Grimwick wrote...

Taboo-XX wrote...

I won. I don't know what your issue is OP.

You won?

How? It's just not possible.

I won. 

I got EVERYTHING I wanted. EVERYTHING.

Fantastic to hear.

I however am still forced into doing the reapers bidding and into killing myself. Seems we have very different definitions of winning.

Reapers want to die?

Starchild controls the reapers. Starchild provides all your options. Ergo you are doing the reaper's bidding.

Starchild built the crucible?
Reapers want to die?

I try killing you for the past 5 years. You get a gun. You get bullets. I say "you can shoot me".  You shoot me.  I die. 

I win? 

Hell! I'd want to lose!  

You're still doing exactly what he's asking for and you still have to take his ridiculous logic for granted.

It's more of a case of you try killing me, then I get a gun and aim it at you, but you have the ammo. You instead replace the ammo with confetti.

It's not really doing what we wanted, it's doing what they wanted - no matter how we look at it. Why couldn't there have been another option? One which isn't crap or involves us dying...?

[Essalor]

Siansonea II wrote...

I have no sympathy for people who want an artificially happy ending just because "it's a video game". Watch the Disney Channel if that's what you want.

But don't you think that because video games can have multiple endings, one can't be made to appeal to people who'd rather watch Disney Channel and feel happy, than ponder on complexities of life?  Surely you can relate... 

[Mcfly616]

I totally get the backlash and bashing Bioware of the original endings.....I was one of the ones screaming to the heavens to strike down Bioware.....

But the EC did its job. It makes sense. There's hope and victory in each ending. And there's closure.

People say the EC is a failure because they simply can't reunite with their L.I. "on-screen"....others I see complaining because there's not an ending where you don't have to sacrifice something (that's realistic.....NOT)

I get the feeling that a lot of the people hating on the EC haven't really seen too many Sci Fi tv shows in the past 40 years.....

If they did, they would realize that all endings are classic Sci Fi archetypes that have been done before in the past....

This isn't Disney....and I wouldn't even be able to.take it seriously if I could achieve all out victory without any sacrifice....

[Grimwick]

CronoDragoon wrote...

Grimwick wrote...

CronoDragoon wrote...

Just because there was a sacrifice does not mean we didn't win. In the EC, it is made clear we saved much more than we lost.

We still end up doing exactly what the reapers want.

We still lose overall.

Maybe if you did synthesis. The Reapers did not want Destroy. The Catalyst does not provide you with the options; they are the result of the Crucible docking with the Citadel and forcibly changing it. Destroy is the opposite of what the Catalyst wants. We won.

The Catalyst is the citadel and the Crucible cannot work without the Catalyst. He is the one which changes it and provides the options, not really the crucible.

[CronoDragoon]

Grimwick wrote...


You're still doing exactly what he's asking for and you still have to take his ridiculous logic for granted.

No you aren't and no you don't. The Catalyst does not provide the options. The Crucible changes him by force. He only explains the options to you.

[CronoDragoon]

Grimwick wrote...

CronoDragoon wrote...

Grimwick wrote...

CronoDragoon wrote...

Just because there was a sacrifice does not mean we didn't win. In the EC, it is made clear we saved much more than we lost.

We still end up doing exactly what the reapers want.

We still lose overall.

Maybe if you did synthesis. The Reapers did not want Destroy. The Catalyst does not provide you with the options; they are the result of the Crucible docking with the Citadel and forcibly changing it. Destroy is the opposite of what the Catalyst wants. We won.

The Catalyst is the citadel and the Crucible cannot work without the Catalyst. He is the one which changes it and provides the options, not really the crucible.

You are flat out wrong. He flat out says the Crucible changed him and provided for new options.

[Recon911PDW]

It's simple, shoot the red tube, problem solved.

[NM_Che56]

CronoDragoon wrote...

Grimwick wrote...

CronoDragoon wrote...

Grimwick wrote...

CronoDragoon wrote...

Just because there was a sacrifice does not mean we didn't win. In the EC, it is made clear we saved much more than we lost.

We still end up doing exactly what the reapers want.

We still lose overall.

Maybe if you did synthesis. The Reapers did not want Destroy. The Catalyst does not provide you with the options; they are the result of the Crucible docking with the Citadel and forcibly changing it. Destroy is the opposite of what the Catalyst wants. We won.

The Catalyst is the citadel and the Crucible cannot work without the Catalyst. He is the one which changes it and provides the options, not really the crucible.

You are flat out wrong. He flat out says the Crucible changed him and provided for new options.

*nods in agreement*

That's why I asked (sardonically) if the Catalyst built the Crucible.

[Grimwick]

CronoDragoon wrote...

Grimwick wrote...

CronoDragoon wrote...

Grimwick wrote...

CronoDragoon wrote...

Just because there was a sacrifice does not mean we didn't win. In the EC, it is made clear we saved much more than we lost.

We still end up doing exactly what the reapers want.

We still lose overall.

Maybe if you did synthesis. The Reapers did not want Destroy. The Catalyst does not provide you with the options; they are the result of the Crucible docking with the Citadel and forcibly changing it. Destroy is the opposite of what the Catalyst wants. We won.

The Catalyst is the citadel and the Crucible cannot work without the Catalyst. He is the one which changes it and provides the options, not really the crucible.

You are flat out wrong. He flat out says the Crucible changed him and provided for new options.

Still doesn't imply the Crucible made the choices. Indicates that these 'new options' were made by him.

For a start - a weapon with three firing modes for a problem they had no idea was the problem?

[cavs25]

No Mass Effect 3 has to be sad, depressing, and disgusting for everyone!!!
Doesn't matter if you did the right thing! Your choices don't matter!!
Sincerely Bioware

[NM_Che56]

Crucible influenced the Catalyst. Forced Catalyst to consider other possibilities. Forced catalyst to let shepard choose.