234 réponses à ce sujet

[Oni Changas]

Oh I see it now.  You don't think the Reaper war would be trivialized if no one died?  I mean seriously...

Avengers is one of the most awesome movies of all time.

People died.
Asses were kicked.
The writers have their story worked out from beginning to end, so there's no need for you to expect Darkseid to force Caps to blow him, work as his slave, take over his post as top dog in the DC universe, or refuse and have Superman and Ms. Marvel's descendants defeat Darkseid's forces.

Our heroes get their **** together and whoop some ass and confront the villain before their big boss, Powers Muthaeffin Boothe has to nuke a *****.

Whaddawegot? Plot resolution, consistency, drama, action, comdey, and a centralized antagonist. AND SHAWARMA. ****ing shawarma.

[CronoDragoon]

Grimwick wrote...

Still doesn't imply the Crucible made the choices. Indicates that these 'new options' were made by him.

For a start - a weapon with three firing modes for a problem they had no idea was the problem?

Look at it this way: the Catalyst's purpose is to provide a solution for the synthetic/organic problem. He presents the solutions that the Crucible docking provided because they ARE solutions. He is a computer.

[Emzamination]

Miekkas wrote...

Emzamination wrote...

Miekkas wrote...

I think all four endings have revolting themes whether it be committing genocide, becoming an uncontrollable god, forced eugenics, or committing the Galaxy to a slow death. You're forced into a poorly written and executed situation that should not have existed to begin with.

I shot the tube in the faint hope that EDI and the geth can be restored based on some interpretations of what the StarBrat says.

Why would a god need to be controlled?

Otherwise we end up with StarBrat and the Mass Effect 3 endings all over again.

O yah

[Octopus_DK]

CronoDragoon wrote...

Grimwick wrote...


You're still doing exactly what he's asking for and you still have to take his ridiculous logic for granted.

No you aren't and no you don't. The Catalyst does not provide the options. The Crucible changes him by force. He only explains the options to you.

So technologically inferior organics have managed to produce a machine that can change the fabric of the entire galaxy and make everyone green? The crucible is just a giant battery according to the catalyst so no, the crucible is not responsible for the options. Then most of the things he says do not make sense so this discussion is irrelevant.

[Grimwick]

CronoDragoon wrote...

Grimwick wrote...

Still doesn't imply the Crucible made the choices. Indicates that these 'new options' were made by him.

For a start - a weapon with three firing modes for a problem they had no idea was the problem?

Look at it this way: the Catalyst's purpose is to provide a solution for the synthetic/organic problem. He presents the solutions that the Crucible docking provided because they ARE solutions. He is a computer.

They are not 'solutions'. None of them are.

Besides - as I said - I deny that his problem is a problem at all. He has no logical basis (editted) whatsoever.

Modifié par Grimwick, 28 juin 2012 - 05:29 .

[Mcfly616]

I feel like people played through the EC and ignored every word out of the Catalysts mouth, simply because he's the StarBrat....

Well me....at 5:15 am Tuesday morning, as I was having the final conversation within him before making the choice, I had a grin on my face ear to ear....why? Because he was explaining everything word for word.... I knew Bioware had succeeded even before I made my choice.....they made sense of everything


The Catalyst has been orchestrating Galactic events for eons....and now we stand where no one has ever stood. A chance to stop the cycle. It is a moment worthy of Mass Effect.....Shepard did something nobody could. And the Catalyst realized his solution would not work, and deemed Shepard worthy of choosing the new solution...

Simply Awesome

[NM_Che56]

Grimwick wrote...

CronoDragoon wrote...

Grimwick wrote...

Still doesn't imply the Crucible made the choices. Indicates that these 'new options' were made by him.

For a start - a weapon with three firing modes for a problem they had no idea was the problem?

Look at it this way: the Catalyst's purpose is to provide a solution for the synthetic/organic problem. He presents the solutions that the Crucible docking provided because they ARE solutions. He is a computer.

They are not 'solutions'. None of them are.

Besides - as I said - I deny that his problem is a problem at all. He has no evidence whatsoever.

Irrelevant.  Starchild's reasons are irrelevant to the matter at hand and that is the reapers are reaping.  No one wants this.  Catalyst does and has wanted it for AEONS.

You come along.   You get a galaxy to unite.  Build a big ol...whatchamacallit...only NOW do you have a chance to:
A) Kill the repears
 Stop them by synthesizing or controlling

Fin

[BDelacroix]

I have to agree. Shoot the tube.
The reaperyst lied hoping to get you to do what they wanted to do anyway.
EDI needs a reboot.
Absence of pictures of geth is not == to absence of geth. Besides, didn't they jump into the suits?

That's my story and I'm sticking to it.

[Oni Changas]

You win and the EC makes sense if Mass Effect were I, Roboterminator Odysee. But it wasn't. The context of the whole series gets changed at the last hour because the story that actually was planned out got scrapped. Jack Sparrow and the cast of Whose Line improv'd this crucial shizz, partner.

[Jonathan Shepard]

Shoot the tube.
I wish the Defiant ending had more to it, as well as a potential victory, especially after Shep's badass speech, but... oh freakin' well.

[CronoDragoon]

Octopus_DK wrote...

CronoDragoon wrote...

Grimwick wrote...


You're still doing exactly what he's asking for and you still have to take his ridiculous logic for granted.

No you aren't and no you don't. The Catalyst does not provide the options. The Crucible changes him by force. He only explains the options to you.

So technologically inferior organics have managed to produce a machine that can change the fabric of the entire galaxy and make everyone green? The crucible is just a giant battery according to the catalyst so no, the crucible is not responsible for the options. Then most of the things he says do not make sense so this discussion is irrelevant.

We don't know who created the Crucible. It could have been the Leviathan race that created the Catalyst and the synthetic beings that the Catalyst then turned into Reapers. We don't even know if the Crucible was originally designed to stop the Reapers. I tend to think it wasn't since it's most basic option, destroy, targets all synthetics. That makes it a possibility that it was originally designed by organics to destroy synthetics threatening them.

If you believe that the Crucible is not responsible for the options, and that the Catalyst is, then explain why he would even give you Destroy as an option. It is the opposite of what he wants. He has no choice in which solutions are presented.

[SpamBot2000]

OniTYME wrote...

OP, bravo brother. Many of the kids here have no idea what gaming was like 10, 15, 20 years ago. Back then, you could save the day and tell Eggman, Bowser, or even Umbrella to suck it. I can't stand this fascination with grimdark, bittersweet or depressing endings being obligatory. What happened to escapism and victory? Sunshine and rainbows you say? DAMN STRAIGHT. I get to enjoy my story and say that I didn't have to imagine it to be happy. I'm too old to "headcanon" with Barney & Friends.

Yeah, I kinda agree with this. Maybe if I had lived in Cotton Candy Land for real, I'd feel the need to entertain myself with "gritty" stories of predestined misery. 

[CronoDragoon]

Grimwick wrote...

CronoDragoon wrote...

Grimwick wrote...

Still doesn't imply the Crucible made the choices. Indicates that these 'new options' were made by him.

For a start - a weapon with three firing modes for a problem they had no idea was the problem?

Look at it this way: the Catalyst's purpose is to provide a solution for the synthetic/organic problem. He presents the solutions that the Crucible docking provided because they ARE solutions. He is a computer.

They are not 'solutions'. None of them are.

Besides - as I said - I deny that his problem is a problem at all. He has no logical basis (editted) whatsoever.

You might be right that they turn out not to be solutions. But the Catalyst sees them as such. I only want to point out that you are not choosing from options that the Catalyst wants you to choose, and only end up agreeing with his philosophy if you choose Synthesis. In short, the idea that you lose is ridiculous. In Destroy, the Reapers are dead and everything else is okay, save for the geth/EDI sacrifices, but whereas before due to vague description by the Catalyst Destroy still felt like you were agreeing with him that synthetics/organics can't coexist, it is now clear that it is an unfortunate but unavoidable consequence of how the Crucible fundamentally works.

[chuckles471]

As much as I think the endings are limp wristed "I am sooo deep" bullcrap.

If they gave you an option to "win", it would render all the 3 null and void. And Hudmac wouldn't want the "greatest stoytelling" ever to play second fiddle to a normal bogstandard Hollywood ending.

Reapers dead- check
Didn't have to compromise anything to get the job done- check
No morally grey spots- check

[Reddof Nonnac]

Galbrant wrote...

krukow wrote...

Shoot the tube. Seriously, if your ems is high, it's a totally uplifting victory.

I mean, EDI dies,but this is freaking war. There was going to be a cost. On the other hand you get:
living shepard (dev confirmed)
LI not putting up your nameplate
Galaxy rebuilding (relays/citadel just damaged)
HACKETT VICTORY SPEECH TO RULE ALL~


Shoot the tube.

You also forgot the death of the Geth too.... I didn't spent my time hammering out a peace treaty with the Quarians and the Geth, just so I can have them all killed because of some stupid artistic vision. Refusal is the only logical choice. I am willing to sacrifice my self to kill the reapers, but I'll be damn I sacrifice some one else  for me. 

Same here! And the two other choices are just as bad.
Control:  As has been said Power Corrupts, Ultimate Power is kind of neat! Oh and lets add that everyone stops shooting reapers just because they suddenly stop firing. Let me direct your attention to the Normandy invasion sequence in Saving Private Ryan, or the Series: Band of Brothers, or Series: The Pacific. The hard feelings are just going to instantly go away?
Synthesis: Besides the fact that in completely breaks game lore by magically and instantly changing everyone’s DNA you are forcing everyone to conform even when the AI says that it cannot be forced and again the bad feelings magically disappear.Really if it had been an actual heroic ending/death I wouldn’t be so bothered by it. It could have been such a powerful moment, like when Shep and Anderson were sitting there together and Anderson says “I’m proud of you child.” It sent shivers down my spine. If it had ended there with the results based on your EMS and prior choices then it would have been amazing and I would be singing BioWare’s praises.

[Firesaber82]

OniTYME wrote...

Oh I see it now.  You don't think the Reaper war would be trivialized if no one died?  I mean seriously...

Avengers is one of the most awesome movies of all time.

People died.
Asses were kicked.
The writers have their story worked out from beginning to end, so there's no need for you to expect Darkseid to force Caps to blow him, work as his slave, take over his post as top dog in the DC universe, or refuse and have Superman and Ms. Marvel's descendants defeat Darkseid's forces.

Our heroes get their **** together and whoop some ass and confront the villain before their big boss, Powers Muthaeffin Boothe has to nuke a *****.

Whaddawegot? Plot resolution, consistency, drama, action, comdey, and a centralized antagonist. AND SHAWARMA. ****ing shawarma.

I've been seeing Avengers used as an example...

***SPOILER FOR AVENGERS*** :





AGENT COULSON DIES






***END OF SPOILERS***

It's not all sunshine and rainbows either...so...

Modifié par Firesaber82, 28 juin 2012 - 06:13 .

[Peranor]

chuckles471 wrote...

As much as I think the endings are limp wristed "I am sooo deep" bullcrap.

If they gave you an option to "win", it would render all the 3 null and void. And Hudmac wouldn't want the "greatest stoytelling" ever to play second fiddle to a normal bogstandard Hollywood ending.

Reapers dead- check
Didn't have to compromise anything to get the job done- check
No morally grey spots- check

I'm not so sure it would render the other endings null and void. Lots of people just seem to love their depressing endings, so as long as they keep those variations of the endings in the game those people can keep picking the depressing endings.

But I have to admit that with the new endings they at least give some sense of victory.
But I hate that "just headcanon it" crap that people keep advocating for.

I'm a pen & paper RPG player so I don't have anything against headcanon and imagining things in your head.
But this is a videogame. An interactive visual medium. When I want headcanon I have my RPG's. When I want the writers to tell me the story I play videogames.

With that said, yes the EC endings involves less headcanon. But I'm talking about the sudden love for headcanon in general. It's dangerous. And I think it sends the wrong signal to the writers out there.

[Femlob]

Taboo-XX wrote...

Tealjaker94 wrote...

I survived and now have a lot of little blue children. Problem?

N-NO.

HEAD CANON.

IS NOT SOMETHING THEY CAN COMPREHEND.

This is from a couple of pages back, but I've seen this deranged excuse clog up my screen once too often.

F*ck head canon. Seriously. F*ck that shit.

I blow fuses in my brain every single day imagining shit from here to Mars and back, be it leisurely or professional. I read books like Caligula f*cked - often and with a vengeance. If I try hard enough I can imagine a zit on your face that's actually a miniature Reaper who's about to stick one up your nose and turn your gray mass into a strawberry slurpee.

I play video games so I don't have to imagine every little goddamn thing for once. If you're going to wrap shit up in a final installment, go all the way or don't even bother. BioWare couldn't even bother to do a half-assed job.

[ThaneKriosIsBoss]

It's a story. It doesn't matter if it's a video game, a movie, or a TV show. Are video games not allowed to have endings where the player doesn't get a perfectly happy ending? Bioware should be applauded for trying an ending where it's not just all happiness and victory. 

[squee365]

Thats interesting. High EMS destroy made me feel victorious in a bittersweet way, but thats just me.

[ThaneKriosIsBoss]

 Also, OP, video games have earned the right to be called an art form. If you want to be ignorant and refer to games as you do, then fine. So be it (< that was intentional).

Jokes aside, I don't even see why you should be complaining. You can still "win" the game. In the Destroy ending, is saving everyone except for synthetics such a bad ending? No, it's a great ending.

[Father_Jerusalem]

I started reading this thread in the hopes it would be an interesting discussion.

It wasn't.

[Iakus]

No.

If destroy had a reunion scene, maybe. But as it is, none of the endings are uplifting enough to make me spend more oney on ME3. Not throwing good money after bad.

[Peranor]

Femlob wrote...

Taboo-XX wrote...

Tealjaker94 wrote...

I survived and now have a lot of little blue children. Problem?

N-NO.

HEAD CANON.

IS NOT SOMETHING THEY CAN COMPREHEND.

This is from a couple of pages back, but I've seen this deranged excuse clog up my screen once too often.

F*ck head canon. Seriously. F*ck that shit.

I blow fuses in my brain every single day imagining shit from here to Mars and back, be it leisurely or professional. I read books like Caligula f*cked - often and with a vengeance. If I try hard enough I can imagine a zit on your face that's actually a miniature Reaper who's about to stick one up your nose and turn your gray mass into a strawberry slurpee.

I play video games so I don't have to imagine every little goddamn thing for once. If you're going to wrap shit up in a final installment, go all the way or don't even bother. BioWare couldn't even bother to do a half-assed job.

Maybe a bit more agressive then I would have put it.
But in the end this is about the same as I feel about headcanon.

[Banul]

scrapmetals wrote...

This isn't art, it's a video game.

Go away