234 réponses à ce sujet

[Zjarcal]

scrapmetals wrote...
Like I said, I am an entitled selfish whining brat, and I'm damn proud of it.

Well that says it all doesn't it.

[M0keys]

eye basher wrote...

Grimwick wrote...

CronoDragoon wrote...

Just because there was a sacrifice does not mean we didn't win. In the EC, it is made clear we saved much more than we lost.

We still end up doing exactly what the reapers want.

We still lose overall.

Did what they want i just shot the tube which is opposite of what they want

if they didn't want you to, they wouldn't have made it an option. starchild can just turn off the crucible after all

[Costin_Razvan]

In all the endings, besides the retarded piece of dung that is Synthesis, the Reapers are dealt with. Yes taking control of them with your protagonist is dealing with them, giving them free will or allowing them to remain under the Catalyst's control in Synthesis ( which of these we don't know for certain ) is not.

I'd call that winning in most cases. Even in Reject, despite every squadmate dying and every species being killed that you cared for....well except the Asari, the Reapers are still defeated.

 
if they didn't want you to, they wouldn't have made it an option. starchild can just turn off the crucible after all 

The Catalyst wants Synthesis, it does not want to be replaced by Shepard in control or killed. However it's an AI that was designed to solve a problem and by it's own words the solution it created for the problem: Reapers, are just not going to work anymore. So that's why it allows Shepard to destroy/control Reapers.

Just because one allows something to happen does not mean that person wants that thing to happen.

Modifié par Costin_Razvan, 28 juin 2012 - 08:06 .

[Arcadian Legend]

I play games to have fun. Winning is a bonus and losing is a learning experience.

[M0keys]

Costin_Razvan wrote...

In all the endings, besides the retarded piece of dung that is Synthesis, the Reapers are dealt with. Yes taking control of them with your protagonist is dealing with them, giving them free will or allowing them to remain under the Catalyst's control in Synthesis ( which of these we don't know for certain ) is not.

I'd call that winning.

 
if they didn't want you to, they wouldn't have made it an option. starchild can just turn off the crucible after all 

The Catalyst wants Synthesis, it does not want to be replaced by Shepard in control or killed. However it's an AI that was designed to solve a problem and by it's own words the solution it created for the problem: Reapers, are just not going to work anymore. So that's why it allows Shepard to destroy/control Reapers.

Just because one allows something to happen does not mean that person wants that thing to happen.

except the starchild has complete control over whether or not the crucible is turned on

it's not like some situation that is out of its hands
when shepard says no, starchild just turns everything off and annihilates the galaxy

it's not up to shepard at all whether or not the reapers win. not even in refuse. they still win because they coerce the galaxy into using the crucible.

[Costin_Razvan]

It's irrelevant whether or not the Catalyst has the power to turn off the crucible or not in relation to it wanting destroy or control. It states itself that it doesn't want to be replaced by Shepard in control.

[ArchDuck]

semiwise wrote...

scrapmetals wrote...

I'm glad all of you won.

But I didn't. My opinion is still perfectly valid.

Not valid, more like childish.

Says the person acting childish. <_<

[Oni Changas]

Mcfly616 wrote...

OniTYME wrote...

Byleth wrote...

Good games are beyond win or loss.

I remember an awesome game like Killer7, all characters except one "died" after all.

Yes they are. And their story tends to keep the same vibes from game to game. See : MGS. Might be really contrived at times, but you can buy it because it's something that's been a part of Metal Gear for a while.  And even if Snake DID die, his actions throughout the series had an effect on its conclusion.

and so did Shepard's

Sovereign, indoctrination process, human reaper, etc.  When did space magic (unexplainable phenomena within the lore) factor into ME?Ooooh, it's concluding scenes... inconsistent.

[ArchDuck]

M0keys wrote...

eye basher wrote...

Grimwick wrote...

CronoDragoon wrote...

Just because there was a sacrifice does not mean we didn't win. In the EC, it is made clear we saved much more than we lost.

We still end up doing exactly what the reapers want.

We still lose overall.

Did what they want i just shot the tube which is opposite of what they want

if they didn't want you to, they wouldn't have made it an option. starchild can just turn off the crucible after all

Very true. You can take one of the three options that the Reaper King has chosen for you or burn.

[billy the squid]

scrapmetals wrote...

I don't play video games to loose... blah, blah, blah. Philistine like ranting.

I take it you "lost" in Mass Effect 3, first time for everything then isn't there.

Modifié par billy the squid, 28 juin 2012 - 08:16 .

[CronoDragoon]

ArchDuck wrote...

M0keys wrote...

eye basher wrote...

Grimwick wrote...

CronoDragoon wrote...

Just because there was a sacrifice does not mean we didn't win. In the EC, it is made clear we saved much more than we lost.

We still end up doing exactly what the reapers want.

We still lose overall.

Did what they want i just shot the tube which is opposite of what they want

if they didn't want you to, they wouldn't have made it an option. starchild can just turn off the crucible after all

Very true. You can take one of the three options that the Reaper King has chosen for you or burn.

Starchild does not decide what options to present to you. He presents all possible options the Crucible gives and then tells you he only likes Synthesis. If he only liked Synthesis, it would be the only option. In low EMS, remember, Destroy is the only option.

Edit: Think of the Catalyst as a computer. There's an issue with the system so it throws up a pop up box.

*Windows has detected that its program to save files no longer works properly. Please choose from one of the following options*

Option A.
Option B.
Option C(Recommended).

Refusal is akin to pressing the close button for the pop up at the top right. You told it to reject all the options, so it closes the pop-up. But later the pop-up will spring up again because the old solution is still now broken.

Modifié par CronoDragoon, 28 juin 2012 - 08:22 .

[AtreiyaN7]

Despite what you say, a story in a game is just the same as one in a book. The fact that you're in control doesn't make things any different. I might want a happy ending in a book, but if I don't get it, that's okay because it's how the writer determined things should end. Even if I'm playing the character in the game, I understand that it's the writers who are in control no matter what. Their job is to tell the story that they want, and if you enjoy it then it's certainly good for business, but the two things do not always converge.

[Dresden867]

OP: You do realize that there's any number of other games that ended (or potentially ended) in a self-sacrifice, right?

Just to name a few off the top:

Planescape: Torment (In the -best- ending, you go to Hell. Literally.)

Quest for Glory 5 (While there's a way to avoid one, most playthroughs ended in -someone- making one)

The Force Unleashed (except in the -bad- ending, where instead he becomes evil)

Bioshock 2

And that's just a few off the top. I'm sure many, many more could be added to this list. It can't be argued that these are -all- bad games (Hell, PS:T alone is regarded as one of the best thematic story RPGs ever).

Maybe this is just the first one where the ending didn't "flow" for you. That's all right. That's acceptable. That does not automatically make it bad writing and a bad game.

[Scalabrine]

MyChemicalBromance wrote...

If you want a happy unchallenging ending go play a different game. It's that simple.

And if he wants an unhappy unchallenging one...he should play this one.

Saying this was challenging is an insult to his intelligence, this didn't even had a true final boss.

ME1: Saren
ME2: The mother of all boss fights, at least in terms of aesthethics.
ME3: Just some random enemy...

Poor choice of words my friend.

Modifié par Scalabrine, 28 juin 2012 - 08:29 .

[nikola8]

By beating ME:3, you don't lose, no matter what. Those you care about are safe (minus EDI and Legion in Destroy). Even if you reject the Crucible/StarChild and die, you still stop the Reapers- the cycle just continues a little longer (watch the post-credits of the Refuse ending to see that the data you leave behind ultimately does defeat the Reapers). While it is true that only high EMS Destroy yields the breath, Shepard dying doesn't mean you lose. The cause that he fought for succeeds, so therefore there is a victory. Movies all the time have the lead character die- it doesn't mean it is a bad movie. LA Noire and Red Dead Redemption both have the lead game characters die, those are both excellent games. (There is even a rumor is that they're going to kill Bruce Wayne in Dark Knight Rises- I wonder if there will be outrage if it happens).

While there isn't the LI reunion, that isn't the worst thing in the world. Your LI will always remember you as a brave individual who sacrificed themselves for the greater good. The EC even gives you an extra opportunity to say goodbye to them on the slope to the beam.

Beating ME:3, and chosing any of the 4 options, isn't losing at all. Rather it is one of the most satisfying, victorious endings that a game can have now that the EC is in place.

[Erixxxx]

You "lose" so that others can live.

Though I wouldn't count sacrifice as losing.

[SpamBot2000]

AtreiyaN7 wrote...

Despite what you say, a story in a game is just the same as one in a book. The fact that you're in control doesn't make things any different. I might want a happy ending in a book, but if I don't get it, that's okay because it's how the writer determined things should end. Even if I'm playing the character in the game, I understand that it's the writers who are in control no matter what. Their job is to tell the story that they want, and if you enjoy it then it's certainly good for business, but the two things do not always converge.

Yes, and sculpture really is the same as music, so why should it last longer than Wagner's operas.

[Bomma72]

I personally won too though Shepard didn't survive at least he never compromised his principles. In the end the next cycle won because of him. This was a good trade.

[Doom972]

If you have high EMS all the endings a victory. Which one is best depends on your point of view. The only "Game Over" I saw is the Refusal end.

[VoodooDrackus]

SpamBot2000 wrote...

VoodooDrackus wrote...

To quote Brady Bunch "It's always me me me, Marsha Marsha Marsha"

Welcome to the real world, where you don't always win. That is what makes Mass Effect so much more than just a game.

.

Wait wait wait... that makes M Effect real?

Missing the point completely.

Obviously ME isn't based on reality in every detail. But the idea of not always winning something, sacrficing for the greater good, etc is something that is based on Reality. Everything doesn't always go your way, sometimes you have to make the hard decisions that benefit only you, others, us or no one at all.

[SpamBot2000]

So how does Kid Catalyst factor in this gritty realism of yours?

[AlexPorto111]

Taboo-XX wrote...

I won. I don't know what your issue is OP.

[ArchDuck]

SpamBot2000 wrote...

So how does Kid Catalyst factor in this gritty realism of yours?

Because poor writing is so true to life man.