49 réponses à ce sujet

[Son of Imoen]

Hail fellow BG-addicts! Again I need your help. By now, I'm at the battle with Irenicus in Hell and having a real hard time. I have the SCSII smarter mages installed, but not the Improved Irenicus component, but still it's giving me more than I can handle.

My party's levels by now:

Faihra: Cleric/Ranger lvl 14/13 (giving her 2 lvl-6 and 1 lvl-7 spell)
Keldorn: Inquisitor lvl 17
Aerie: Cleric/Mage lvl 13/13 (giving access to 2 lvl-6 wizard and 2 lvl-6 priest spells)
Amber: Fighter>Thief lvl 6/23
Imoen: Adventurer>Mage lvl 7/15 (giving her 1 lvl-7 spell)
Xan: Enchanter lvl 17 (giving him 3 lvl-8 spells but no lvl-9 yet)

My strategies up to now where buff to the max, especially with Improved Haste and Giant strength potions (boss-battle winners in previous fights), start off with 2 holy smites so as to already conflict some damage at the start, have Keldorn, Faihra and Amber hack away at one of the demons (first a Balor, as they are most powerful and Amber's arrows hit to no effect, though I didn't try all types).

When Irenicus has buffed himself, I start stripping with a Spell Thrust and Secret Word first, then Ruby Ray of Reversal and waiting for the moment stripping away his SI: Diviniation and Keldorn's True Sight has made him visible, then hit him with Khelben's Warding Whip.

What goes wrong mostly, is my spellcasters get hit by demons, thereby having their spells disrupted and also needing to run away from the melee (I didn't use protection from magical weapons, as I wanted to use the slots offensively). Also the Slayer (and the demons too) dispell buffs, making me more vulnerable and things start going wrong when a horrid wilting or unholy blight damages half my party so much, 3 characters spend more time waiting for the health potion to say 'gulp' than contributing to the fight and then the balance turns disastrously in Irenicus' favour.

Helpful tips are greatly appreciated.

As a sidenote: how should I deal with the fallen planetar he summons?

[corey_russell]

I don't use SCS (yet), but I had a few comments:

1) Have you tried using Keldorn's dispel ability? It is supposed to be 2x/level so could get rid of a lot of buffs in a single shot
2) Planetars require +3 weapons to hit. This means most SoA ranged weapons are useless against them. They do have some decent resistances. The best weapon (by far) to use against them is the FoeBane (you get 1st level of Watcher's Keep). But a character dual-wielding 2 +3 weapons under improved haste should be able to get it down soon. You may have to use RoR (rod of resurrection ) heals to keep them alive.
3) You say your spell casters are getting hit by demons - but surely you have things like stone skin/mirror image/blur/improved invisibility (which helps AC and saves) on them so they can't get hit so easily?
4) Strong summons (deva, ariel servant, fire elementals, skeletal warriors) can help, especially with the demons. The key though, is to cast them far and away from the party in a circle at the start. This makes it impossible for them all to be killed by a single death spell.
5) Thief traps should certainly be used if you have them. Note that placing the traps not near the slayer but close enough to trigger on the demons spawn work best. You could also have a trap concentration away from the starting spot, the party could withdraw and lure the enemies into your "trap".
6) Teleport field can be used to give your casters more time.
7) Your party looks a bit weak on the melee side - your mages have lots of MMM to help with the damage output? they count as +5 so can even help whittle down the planetar.

Modifié par corey_russell, 28 juin 2012 - 09:39 .

[The Potty 1]

www.gibberlings3.net/readmes/readme-scsII.html & search for 'Balors'

Balors (cast at 24th level):Stoneskin, Fire Storm, Implosion, once per day each.Teleport without Error, Remove Magic, Telekinesis, Symbol: Stun, Symbol: Death, and Domination, all at will.Permanently wreathed in flames (Fire Shield effect)Balors will only use their Implosion power in Throne of Bhaal. All Balors now wield the vorpal swords that the Watchers' Keep Balors wield; but these have been modified so that they kill but don't chunk, and so that they allow a saving throw.
All demons need +3 weapons to hit, from vanilla not scs2. This means no arrows will work at all. There are ranged weapons that are +3 and don't require ammo, which will hit. Examples are the firetooth crossbow, the firetooth throwing dagger, the Gesen short bow, the Azureedge axe, a dwarf-only throwing hammer, and one or two slings.
List all your weapons that are +3 or better. Did you get the flail of ages? It has a very sweet slow effect with no save allowed, give it to Aerie or Faihra. Did you kill firky, ie does Keldorn have Carsomyr, and did you let SCS2 nerf it? What melee weapon does Amber have? it may be time to try a backstab.

I'm pretty sure most demons are resistant to magic, also from vanilla. Your party's pretty mage-heavy, so target the planetar first. Does that only turn up after Irenecus summons it, or is it there to start? Given the Balor's fireshield, what fire resistant gear do you have? You definitely want to summon a couple of fire elementals before, but only cast the divine one using Faihra & Aerie, the arcane casters can summon invisible stalkers or something. Amber can set all her traps. Don't forget remove fear. You could also go for a pit fiend (gate) as your level 7 divine spell, just remember protection from evil 10' radius. While you're at it protection from fire would help against the firestorm, and death ward may block the vorpal effect. Or not. It's all gonna be dispelled anyway. On the plus side due to the blood war, balors & pit fiends would rather kill each other than mortals, so it may ignore you evin with PfE removed. Or not.

If the planetar is not there from the start, perhaps cast lower resistance from all 3 arcane casters on the Balor, then follow with a dispel from Keldorn, & a doom from Faihra. Keep Amber hidden. In the second round, drop a malison from Imoen, follow with a glitterdust from Aerie, horrid wilting from Xan, & bolt of glory from Faihra. It will probably respond by teleporting to whoever dealt most damage or has fewest hit points, and trying to dispell them, so keep your mages away each other, and perhaps load contingencies with stoneskin on hit.

Keep Amber hidden near Xan with boots of speed, and if they teleport to him, run behind and try a backstab. Or just stay clear and fire away with the gesen bow from the start.

[Son of Imoen]

Thanks for your replies. That's a lot of things to look into and things to try, I'll try tackling Irenicus again once my vacation has started, 'cause it sure will take some energy (of mine) to do.

For now some replies to your  questions, first corey_russel:

corey_russell wrote...
1) Have you tried using Keldorn's dispel ability? It is supposed to be 2x/level so could get rid of a lot of buffs in a single shot

No I haven't, but it's a good idea to try. In my whole campaign, I hardly ever used dispel magic as it also takes away buffs of my own characters, but combined with a keep distance tactic, i'll try it

3) You say your spell casters are getting hit by demons - but surely you have things like stone skin/mirror image/blur/improved invisibility (which helps AC and saves) on them so they can't get hit so easily?

I use stoneskin always, but I've kind of forgotten mirror image and blur work just as well at higher levels, I used to cast them a lot earlier in the campaign. The thing with improved invisibility, it's a double-edged sword, as it's keep your healers from casting heal on the invisible party-members, but in this battle, there's no time to stand around casting heals anyway.

4) Strong summons (deva, ariel servant, fire elementals, skeletal warriors) can help, especially with the demons. The key though, is to cast them far and away from the party in a circle at the start. This makes it impossible for them all to be killed by a single death spell.
6) Teleport field can be used to give your casters more time.
7) Your party looks a bit weak on the melee side - your mages have lots of MMM to help with the damage output? they count as +5 so can even help whittle down the planetar.

I'll need to look into what spells I have - summons and MMM are spells I don't use often, I'm not sure which of the casters have what in their spellbook. Pretty sure I don't have teleport field: I dislike my melee characters being tossed around by it, or does it affect enemies only?

[Son of Imoen]

next answering The Potty 1 (is there a Potty 2 as well? ):
[quote]The Potty 1 wrote...
All demons need +3 weapons to hit, from vanilla not scs2. This means no arrows will work at all. There are ranged weapons that are +3 and don't require ammo, which will hit. Examples are the firetooth crossbow, the firetooth throwing dagger, the Gesen short bow, the Azureedge axe, a dwarf-only throwing hammer, and one or two slings.
List all your weapons that are +3 or better. Did you get the flail of ages? It has a very sweet slow effect with no save allowed, give it to Aerie or Faihra. Did you kill firky, ie does Keldorn have Carsomyr, and did you let SCS2 nerf it? What melee weapon does Amber have? it may be time to try a backstab.[/url] +3 or more weapons I've got (from memory, I'm typing on my laptop now, the game is on my other computer): Faihra the Flail of Ages, Keldorn nerfed Carsomyr, Amber has the Equalizer (what alignment do Balors have?), I've given Aerie the Staff of Ram for this battle, Imoen has the Gesen Bow and Xan the Firetooth throwing dagger. I've given Faihra a shield, but she might dual-wield as well, though if I remember well, all maces she has to dual-wield with are +2 or less.

[quote]Does that only turn up after Irenecus summons it, or is it there to start?[/quote]The Planetar only gets there once Irenicus summons it
[quote]Given the Balor's fireshield, what fire resistant gear do you have?[/quote]Thanks for mentioning. As there's no fireshield graphics on the Balor, I wasn't aware they had a permament fireshield. Against Firkraag I equiped all fire resistant gear I had, will do that again for this battle. I have a dragon shield and dragon sword, but there was more as well, don't remember it all now
[quote]You definitely want to summon a couple of fire elementals before, but only cast the divine one using Faihra & Aerie, the arcane casters can summon invisible stalkers or something. Amber can set all her traps. Don't forget remove fear. You could also go for a pit fiend (gate) as your level 7 divine spell, just remember protection from evil 10' radius. While you're at it protection from fire would help against the firestorm, and death ward may block the vorpal effect. Or not. It's all gonna be dispelled anyway. On the plus side due to the blood war, balors & pit fiends would rather kill each other than mortals, so it may ignore you evin with PfE removed. Or not.[/quote]
Againk, just like corey, thanks for the tips on summons. I'l look into what spells I have. Are divinely summoned fire elementals more powerful? What's the difference with the ones Xan summons?

Also thanks for an idea for the first round strategy (indeed the Planetar only appears later). Once my vacation start I'll pick new spells for the battle and I will rest twice: the first time to load contingies: stoneskin on hit is indeed a very good idea for the  mages.

[ussnorway]

Put up PfE and lay some traps... that’s basic stuff but it will help keep the adds off you.

There are two strategies;
Fight adds with adds or swamp the area in ‘DeathFog’/ ‘SkullTrap’s (PfA)... irrespective, start the battle with your spell casters cloaked & target the Glabrezu daemons first because they see through any stealth but die easy. Have the Pally attack in melee while you retreat (only needs one PoA)  behind the traps and use RoR ( Rod of Resurrection) to heal him if you have it.

IMO the best way to counter a fallen planetar is with a Planetar/Deva but you can retreat if you have already dropped ‘DeathFog’s to whittle them down or your little buddy will go hostile against you as soon as their toes touch the fog... that’s why it’s one or the other but of course you can summon after the fog finishes.

Since you are heavy on the magic casters then it comes down to, “What weapons and spells have you got to work with?”

You put 110 points into ‘Detect Illusions’ yes? Good, you can now pull any one out of stealth regardless of SI: Diviniation.

If you have a arcane 7th ‘Limited Wish’ scroll/ spell * then pack  Aerie with 2X ‘Bolt of Glory’ & a ‘Death Fog’ set to target the first enemy seen... firing a contingency DOESN’T break stealth.

* I wish to be prepared for anything (needs Wis 11)
Result: Chain Contingency (only used once all game)

Modifié par ussnorway, 29 juin 2012 - 11:47 .

[morbidest2]

I would suggest - if all else fails - restocking your mages with high level summons to keep JI and his allies busy, and have Faihra and Keldorn work as a team to bump them off one by one. Save JI for last. And as Corey said, things like Spike Traps can be a big help. Say, have F&K start on the SW side of the demon semi-circle, with the Traps on the East side of the semi-circle, It's a similiar problem to level5A at Watchers Keep when you turn the 10 o'clock key. Also a dual shot from Daystar and the helm of brilliance might get things off to a good start.
Not having a druid wielding the staff of nature as a quick summoner does make this a very tough fight, indeed.

[Son of Imoen]

morbidest2 wrote...
Not having a druid wielding the staff of nature as a quick summoner does make this a very tough fight, indeed.

You mean the Staff of the Woodlands +4 from Suldanessar that summons Shambling Mounds or do you mean the Staff of Air or Staff of Fire that summons Elementals? 'Cos if there such a great help, I'll make sure Amniralda the Totemic Druid has them once she stands before Irenicus. Alas my next character in line to get there, Kheltick the Blade, hasn't got a druid in the party either.

Alas no Daystar nor Helm of Brilliance in this party neither (though Kheltick managed to get Daystar, so the next party against Irenicus can do that, I'll try remember having him buy the helm once he's out of the Underdark). You're referring to the Sunray strike ability I presume?

[Son of Imoen]

Another question: Corey mentioned the possibility of summoning a Deva while ussnorway suggested summoning a Planetar, but how do I get access to those? The ToB manual mentions summon Deva as 'Quest level' priest spell - that means HLA I presume? I only got to choose a HLA twice yet for Faihra and I choose Deathblow and Greater Deathblow, but they're only useful to quickly whittle away the enemies of 12 level or less. Was it a bad choice? I can't remember if 'summon Deva' was offered.

As to Summon Planetar, my ToB manual says it's a level 10 mage spell - I wasn't even aware level 10 existed, my spellbook has no pages beyond level 9, but Xan isn't even high enough level for level 9 spells yet, I'll have to make do with 8th level spells. So how do you pull off summoning a Planetar in the SoA part of the game?

[ussnorway]

Son of Imoen wrote...

morbidest2 wrote...
Not having a druid wielding the staff of nature as a quick summoner does make this a very tough fight, indeed.

You mean the Staff of the Woodlands +4 from Suldanessar that summons Shambling Mounds or do you mean the Staff of Air or Staff of Fire that summons Elementals? 'Cos if there such a great help, I'll make sure Amniralda the Totemic Druid has them once she stands before Irenicus. Alas my next character in line to get there, Kheltick the Blade, hasn't got a druid in the party either.

Both Amber and your Blade can use the staff for adds once they get UAI at level 24 but IMO  FoA/ CF on your R/C & any +4 weapon for your Paladin are what will win this battle for you.

Edit; Mages/ Sorerers cast level ten spells as taking a level 9 slot and you get them starting from character level 18, divine casters use level 7 spells slots and yes you should get the Deva (good) first... Planetars are stronger than Deva but the game Ai doesn’t use them well.

Only one Planetar (any type) per group can be in play at a time.

Modifié par ussnorway, 29 juin 2012 - 01:35 .

[The Potty 1]

Son of Imoen wrote...

next answering The Potty 1 (is there a Potty 2 as well?):

 
Me and potties 2-2000 all live in a large underground turnip factory at the extreme end of the Victoria line 

+3 or more weapons I've got (from memory, I'm typing on my laptop now, the game is on my other computer): Faihra the Flail of Ages, Keldorn nerfed Carsomyr, Amber has the Equalizer (what alignment do Balors have?), I've given Aerie the Staff of Ram for this battle, Imoen has the Gesen Bow and Xan the Firetooth throwing dagger. I've given Faihra a shield, but she might dual-wield as well, though if I remember well, all maces she has to dual-wield with are +2 or less. 

 

Balors are demons, which are chaotic evil, while Pit fiends are devils, which are lawful evil. With SCS2 they should fight. YMMV
Did you upgrade the mace of disruption with the illithium? If so it counts as +5. However the flail of Easthaven is a better off-hand weapon, use with Armor of faith to reduce melee damage.

  Thanks for mentioning. As there's no fireshield graphics on the Balor, I wasn't aware they had a permament fireshield. Against Firkraag I equiped all fire resistant gear I had, will do that again for this battle. I have a dragon shield and dragon sword, but there was more as well, don't remember it all now 

 

Did you install the improved fiends component of SCS2? You should see the fireshield, if you cant, it's probably not there.

  Againk, just like corey, thanks for the tips on summons. I'l look into what spells I have. Are divinely summoned fire elementals more powerful? What's the difference with the ones Xan summons?

 

Arcane elementals engage in a battle of wills with the caster for THREE ROUNDS after summoning, and may turn hostile. Divine elementals are just summoned.

  Also thanks for an idea for the first round strategy (indeed the Planetar only appears later). Once my vacation start I'll pick new spells for the battle and I will rest twice: the first time to load contingies: stoneskin on hit is indeed a very good idea for the mages.

If you've dropped their magic resistance, so is ADHW

Another question: Corey mentioned the possibility of summoning a Deva while ussnorway suggested summoning a Planetar, but how do I get access to those? The ToB manual mentions summon Deva as 'Quest level' priest spell - that means HLA I presume? I only got to choose a HLA twice yet for Faihra and I choose Deathblow and Greater Deathblow, but they're only useful to quickly whittle away the enemies of 12 level or less. Was it a bad choice? I can't remember if 'summon Deva' was offered.
As to Summon Planetar, my ToB manual says it's a level 10 mage spell - I wasn't even aware level 10 existed, my spellbook has no pages beyond level 9, but Xan isn't even high enough level for level 9 spells yet, I'll have to make do with 8th level spells. So how do you pull off summoning a Planetar in the SoA part of the game?

 
Both planetars & devas are HLAs, so is spike trap, and as far as I can see Amber is just short of her first HLA. Spike trap is a nice start, although if she has more than 1 APR then time trap/assassinate is a nice combo. Deathblow is certainly not my first choice for a R/C, I would take Deva first, then hardiness, which goes nicely with Easthaven / AoF.

Epic level spells are added to your level 9 book for mages, level 7 for clerics. Note that there is a component of SCS2 gameplay tweaks which moves these to the abilities button, I think this makes sense, in any case check whether you installed this or not.

 Treat mages' and priests' High-Level Abilities as innate abilities rather than memorisable spells 
http://www.gibberlings3.net/scsii/  

 

[corey_russell]

Son of Imoen wrote...

Thanks for your replies. That's a lot of things to look into and things to try, I'll try tackling Irenicus again once my vacation has started, 'cause it sure will take some energy (of mine) to do.

Pretty sure I don't have teleport field: I dislike my melee characters being tossed around by it, or does it affect enemies only?

Teleport field affects enemies only. Your characters get HLAs like Devas/planetars once they get a total of 3,000,00 experience for all their classes. While spike traps are certainly better, even normal snares could still help your team, so be sure to use them if you have them. And I agree the quck summons, such as those that can be cast repeatedly same fight (such as the staff of the woodlands) can be a big help help in a fight like this.

Modifié par corey_russell, 29 juin 2012 - 04:17 .

[Gate70]

Son of Imoen wrote...
I only got to choose a HLA twice yet for Faihra and I choose Deathblow and Greater Deathblow, but they're only useful to quickly whittle away the enemies of 12 level or less. Was it a bad choice? I can't remember if 'summon Deva' was offered.

My view only - death blow and greater deathblow are only of use against enemies you'd have no trouble with anyway, so wasted.

Deva will be an option for cleric, although planetar via mage is a much better choice.

As for this battle, I'm not familiar with either SCS or Improved mages here but would have thought something like the below could help, particularly if aided by a bunch of traps as aleady suggested.

Make your party step back while your best tank or a sacrificial summon moves forward, so your casters can get on with their job. Send in the summons after death spells have been used together with your other melee characters.

Your cleric/ranger can cast L1 sanctuary and move next to your tank, then L7 natures beauty will blind anything nearby with no save. They'll probably all save vs instant death but if they're blinded things should be a lot easier.

Taking natures beauty means no shield of the archons, you might find that prevents de-buffing and if so it could be a better choice if you want your C/R to melee.

[Son of Imoen]

Oops, it's getting mighty obvious this is my first playthrough (actually the second, but Faihra bypassed Kheltick by making faster progress with her): I only found out about the Mace of Disruption upgrade by talking about it on this forum after Faihra had given the real illithium away for a sculpture by Sir Sarles and all weapons I have I gathered by stumbling upon them rather than strategically looking for them, that way I found the components for the Gesen Bow for instance, but Crom Faeyr takes deliberate planning it seems (I've taken a look at the description recently, it's no route you find by accidentally stumbling upon the components and Trademeet and Watchkeep needs to be visited, or so I remember - Faihra bypassed those).

And the first time I got the HLA screen I was surprised and said to myself 'so this is what it's about' but I had no idea what the good choices were among the overwhelming choices.

I'll just make do with what I have and use the tips that I can apply.

Reloaded the battle again to check some things:

The Balors do indeed have fire shield animations, I failed to notice them the first time, but they're there and I do have improved fiends installed. Maybe I'd better de-install that component.

And I don't have too many summoning options I see. I don't have a Gate spell and like I said, no planetars. Oops. Xan can summon a Gelugon though (lawful fiend) and Faihra 2 fire elementals (but that means no other 6th level buffs for her, no Blade Barrier), Plenty of Skeleton Warriors too, as Imoen and Xan both are level 15+ and I can afford some slots on Invisible Stalkers. And I still got a wand of air in my inventory.

I might summon one or two Efreeti as well, are they any good? Though I need 7th level slots for the dispellings with Khelben's Warding Whip and (AoE, bypassing invisibility) Ruby Rays of Reversal as well.

There's a summoning cap of 5, what would be a good mix of the above options?

*edit: spelling

Modifié par Son of Imoen, 29 juin 2012 - 05:17 .

[Son of Imoen]

BTW, a dummy run already proved that the tactic of backing away and only sending the melee characters Keldorn and Amber (who has 2 attacks per round with longsword and a Thac0 of -2, I had Faihra casting first) did help in taking out one Gelugon quickly, even without a proper choosing of spells. But that's next on my list: going through my spellbooks, apply your tips and choose a different set of spells.

Will Spell Shield be any good for preventing my caster's to get debuffed or doesn't it work against the kind of debuffs the demons and Irenicus use? (i'm not sure which of their spells or abilities did the trick, but especially Aerie and Xan are very vulnerable against debuffing tactics of them).

[corey_russell]

I believe you need to use spell immunity to protect your buffs from a dispel. Aerie knows this spell (level 5 mage spell I think). I'm not certain what school but I think it might be spell immunity: abjuration to do the trick.

By the way, if your bow users had any dispelling arrows, those could have come real handy this fight too.

[morbidest2]

Son of Imoen wrote...

morbidest2 wrote...
Not having a druid wielding the staff of nature as a quick summoner does make this a very tough fight, indeed.

You mean the Staff of the Woodlands +4 from Suldanessar that summons Shambling Mounds or do you mean the Staff of Air or Staff of Fire that summons Elementals? 'Cos if there such a great help, I'll make sure Amniralda the Totemic Druid has them once she stands before Irenicus. Alas my next character in line to get there, Kheltick the Blade, hasn't got a druid in the party either.

Alas no Daystar nor Helm of Brilliance in this party neither (though Kheltick managed to get Daystar, so the next party against Irenicus can do that, I'll try remember having him buy the helm once he's out of the Underdark). You're referring to the Sunray strike ability I presume?

Yes, the staff of the woodlands, which is good for 20 shambling mounds, so it can keep the balors,etc. occupied, even though the sm's don't last too long against them. Obviously your present party can use the other 2 staffs (and also the Earth staff)  for a few summons before you start the battle with Jon.

Well, even though you can't do Sunray, as ussnorway said, you have Bolt of Glory. Can you start off with a double Bolt while your elementals very temporarily keep Jon's allies busy? That might be enough - combined with spike traps - to quickly whittle down Jon's crew and give your PC and Keldorn a chance to finish them off and send Jon packing.

[morbidest2]

Son of Imoen wrote...

:

And I don't have too many summoning options I see. I don't have a Gate spell and like I said, no planetars. Oops. Xan can summon a Gelugon though (lawful fiend) and Faihra 2 fire elementals (but that means no other 6th level buffs for her, no Blade Barrier), Plenty of Skeleton Warriors too, as Imoen and Xan both are level 15+ and I can afford some slots on Invisible Stalkers. And I still got a wand of air in my inventory.

I might summon one or two Efreeti as well, are they any good? Though I need 7th level slots for the dispellings with Khelben's Warding Whip and (AoE, bypassing invisibility) Ruby Rays of Reversal as well.

There's a summoning cap of 5, what would be a good mix of the above options?

*edit: spelling

Efreeti have very tender feelings  and generally wind up getting insulted and attacking YOU. Hakeshars (sp), aerial servants, etc.., are better choices. Skelton warriors have a lot of magic resistance, so are always good choices for this type of battle. Too bad about no spike traps, but have you checked your scroll collection to see what summons you might put in your mage quick slots?
Personally, I would start off with large Skel warriors, Air elemental, a few fire elementals and 2 bolts of glory, and then keep my mages busy summoning and summoning as Jon and Co. quickly kill off whatever you throw against them. Your PC and Keldorn are going to have to do the hard work, while the mages just keep the other side distracted.
With respect to fighter HLAs, when you get to ToB you'll see that you can never have too many Greater Whirlwind attacks, but first you have to choose one Whirlwind attack. IMHO, for fighters everything else is just ruffles and flurrishes  

[Son of Imoen]

OK, so the 6th level choices will be 2 fire elementals for Faihra and 2 bolts of glory for Aerie.10d6 damage without a save, that's impressive. The 7th level spell for Faihra is still a tough choice. For my failed attempts I had Holy Word memorized, though because of the high level it only resulted in deafening effect (50% spell failure), no damage. Permanent blindness from Nature's Beaty helps stopping melee damage, but they'll get more spells off, and Shield of the Archons will help Faihra stay buffed, but leaves the enemies alone. Tough choice .

And alas, 2 HLA's wasted on Deathstrike, where it might have resulted in a Greater Whirlwind or a Deva summoned.
Tough it won't be relevant after this battle, as I'm thinking about not continuing with this party into SoA, as Amber has no ToB content yet, though I'm not sure if that means I'll have no thief or just a silent thief without dialogue. Imoen as my only thief is not a nice option, especially as I greatly like the HiS/MS to scout parts of the game that are unknown to me, as I've never played ToB yet.

*edit: spelling errors

Modifié par Son of Imoen, 30 juin 2012 - 09:57 .

[ussnorway]

Spells,
Use the staff for summoning fire elementals as doing it via 6th level spell they could turn against you & at best will tie up your mage for three rounds.

IMO ‘Summon Nishruu’ or ‘Wyvern Call’ are better options but ‘Pierce Magic’ is what I’d go with if level 6 slots are in short supply and follow that up with 7th ‘Creeping Doom’ but ‘Shield of the Archons’ is more popular... after laying normal traps you can drop ‘Symbol of Stun’ at the back of the room then rest and swap in a different spell. The stun will affect any one (friendly fire) but gives you something that you can run behind to give you an edge if things start to go badly.

Several SCS options make ‘blind’ an iffy effect to rely on but it’s very powerful in the vanilla game.

Party members,
Amber will travel to ToB with you but will go into circling the last talk over and over... You can call in any of the surviving NPC party members once you have your hell fortress (home sweet home) I swapped her out for Jan.

High level abilities,
These come down to play style and there is no BEST option.
Some characters get abilities that stack with number of hits Eg. A wizard slayer with “Foebane +5” would block the targets spell casting & increase her own health by a couple points with each successful hit she gets, therefore each ‘Greater Whirlwind Attack’ can push her into god like health when fighting a big boss like a dragon (one of the main reasons that warriors can solo this game)... the actual damage that each hit does is only a secondary consideration.

If you play Amber as a backstabber then a weapon that does large damage up front like “Daystar” mixed with ‘Assassination’ so she doesn’t have to worry about stealth but not a lot of point if you have her using a bow so ‘UAI’ (use any item) would let her carry the “Staff of the Woodlands” as well or you could use ‘Avoid Death’ as a way to block death spells when fighting vamps... IMO more useful on a tank like Haer'Dalis.

Your Ranger/Cleric is tricky because you have to use him in melee to get the best out of him but letting him take damage risks losing the game... normally I’d use my spell to buff up with ‘Aura of Flaming Death’ or as an opening shot like ‘Creeping Doom’ before charging into the thick of it but others prefer to hang back and use ‘Energy Blades’.

A melee PC should consider getting ‘Hardiness’ or ‘Resist Magic’ because they will help keep you fighting but a range PC probably only wants ‘Energy Blades’ and a summon spell.

Note that you can have a Deva/ Planetar and elementals in play together so let the mage take the ‘Summon Planetar’ while you take ‘Elemental Summoning’... I’d even consider ‘Tracking’ if you are the hang back and direct the battle type of player.
Good luck and play the game your way!

[Son of Imoen]

Thanks for your view on HLA's. My favourite role for my ranger-cleric is have her cast an opening shot, as you call it - my usual one is insect plague, disrupting spellcasters and making some of the enemy group run around in fear, thus greatly disabling their offensive capabilities - and then start hitting in melee (she has a natural STR of 19) with a Blade Barrier put up for extra damage. Defender of Easthaven is indeed a good weapon, dual-wielded with Flail of Ages, in this role, but it's still in Joluv's possession, as I didn't find him when I wanted to look in his shop in my last visit to Athkathla. I peek at an earlier save and just found out he's sneaked into the Copper Coronet kitchen for a snack. I wonder if I'd better reload the save in Bodhi's lair, when Faihra got to choose her second HLA, choose Hardiness or summon Deva instead, buy the Defender of Easthaven and redo the Elven city. It would sure help me win that final fight, it just means I have to do a whole other lot of fights again too.

And while I'm at it, visit 1 or more levels of Watcher's Keep as well? I took a peek there, then decided I was too curious about how the game ended, but if I visit WK after all, are there good items to be found that would help this particular party in it's fight against Irenicus?

[Son of Imoen]

ussnorway wrote...
Party members,
Amber will travel to ToB with you but will go into circling the last talk over and over... You can call in any of the surviving NPC party members once you have your hell fortress (home sweet home) I swapped her out for Jan.

Oops, will i have to actually have to live there?

I'd sure like to have Jan as a replacement for Amber, but as he was not in my party gathering xp since I met him way back in the Government square, won't he be the same low-level character I helped in not being arrested for illegal peddling in turnips bruiser mates?

[ussnorway]

1. Jan or anyone else will have 2500000 when you call them to hell.
2. Watchers keep can be done before you go to Tob or after but it’s all or nothing i.e. if you start before Tob then you have to finish it.
3. ‘Creeping Doom’ is just a more powerful version of ‘Insect Plague’.
4. IMO you have skipped too much content and will struggle in ToB (especially SCS ToB) at your current level however you can expect about three levels from Watchers so that (and the extra weapons) will help... it’s your game.

[morbidest2]

ussnorway wrote...

2. Watchers keep can be done before you go to Tob or after but it’s all or nothing i.e. if you start before Tob then you have to finish it.
.

Is this true because of SCS?
In a more vanilla run thru of SoA, I usually do the first two levels of Watchers Keep after coming back from Spellhold, because of
1- the useful knicknacks you can pick up there
2-it is a good battle "gym" to maximize the XP and levels of your party before you deal with Bodhi and go to Seldanessellar.
But the more ambitious can leave WK after lev 3 or lev 4 or lev 5A. You don't have to finish it in vanilla SoA.

Modifié par morbidest2, 30 juin 2012 - 11:48 .

[Son of Imoen]

I spend the last few hours doing some research: what have I skipped and what items can still be had. I didn't take a look at the Planar Sphere yet as I don't want to miss anyone in my party, nor do I want to kill Valygar, but at least I could do Trademeet after all: the Robe of the Good Archmagi, Cloak of Displacement and Blade of Initial Barrier will all help upping the saving throws and a number of resistances of my party. And of course the XP as well.

I haven't made up my mind about doing Watcher's Keep yet. A sneak peak at a walkthrough of items that can be found at level 1 of WK didn't reveal many useful things (no-one will be proficient in Foebane, there's a good crossbow for Keldorn, but he's hacking away in melee most of the time).

I didn't install any Watcher's Keep component of SCS. Does that change if ussnorway's remark 2. helds true or not?

*edit: 'good' is not a good word where 'could' was meant. The strange workings of a human brain, I wonder what Chomski would have to say about it.

Modifié par Son of Imoen, 30 juin 2012 - 12:00 .