49 réponses à ce sujet

[Son of Imoen]

BTW: I'm too much BG-addicted. I didn't even take time to have a shower yet. It's 14:00 in Holland and I'm still in my Robe of Morning Sleepiness +1. Time to take a break from the Forum of Addictiveness +4 for now.

[Gate70]

You can probably nab the armour from Valygar. Not a great armour class but several other very nice effects. (n.b. probably requires some stats to be the same or better than he has).

[Son of Imoen]

Gate70 wrote...

You can probably nab the armour from Valygar. Not a great armour class but several other very nice effects. (n.b. probably requires some stats to be the same or better than he has).

Is it his armour that gives access to the Planar Sphere than?

[Gate70]

No, him or his body.

[morbidest2]

Son of Imoen wrote...

I spend the last few hours doing some research: what have I skipped and what items can still be had. I didn't take a look at the Planar Sphere yet as I don't want to miss anyone in my party, nor do I want to kill Valygar, but at least I could do Trademeet after all: the Robe of the Good Archmagi, Cloak of Displacement and Blade of Initial Barrier will all help upping the saving throws and a number of resistances of my party. And of course the XP as well.

I haven't made up my mind about doing Watcher's Keep yet. A sneak peak at a walkthrough of items that can be found at level 1 of WK didn't reveal many useful things (no-one will be proficient in Foebane, there's a good crossbow for Keldorn, but he's hacking away in melee most of the time).

I didn't install any Watcher's Keep component of SCS. Does that change if ussnorway's remark 2. helds true or not?

*edit: 'good' is not a good word where 'could' was meant. The strange workings of a human brain, I wonder what Chomski would have to say about it.

The first 2 levels of WK yield some +3 ammunition and an ammo belt good for holding thousands of arrows, bolts and rocks, so that the true packrat can clear a little space in his party's pack for those rarely useful weapons you just can't bare to leave behind after you've filled your first bag of holding  
But the true virtue of early WK is getting those XPs and higher levels in a series of difficult but not impossible battles.

[Grond0]

Gate70 wrote...

No, him or his body.

You only need him to open the door, so you can then drop him and take your chosen party inside.

[Son of Imoen]

Grond0 wrote...

Gate70 wrote...

No, him or his body.

You only need him to open the door, so you can then drop him and take your chosen party inside.

OK, so i'll have to pick a character who will have some fun time on their own and let him or her rejoin once the door is opened? Guess I'll let Keldorn go for a short while then, so he can see his Maria, while Faihra's off to Valygar's cabin.

There's still the uncertainty if I can pick up the rest of WK, if I do it's first levels, after I've completed SoA? On what factors does it depend? As I've said, i did not install WK-components of SCS II, so i assume vanilla behaviour? And what is the vanilla behaviour? (but please don't spoil me about the story of the ToB part of the game... :innocent:).

[morbidest2]

After about the first fifth of ToB WK again becomes open to you, whether or not you went there in SoA. Once again it's purely optional, although the loot you can pick up on the lower levels is pretty good, and the XP points are lush.

[ussnorway]

Watchers;
There was an in game warning to that effect but apparently that’s no longer the case... cool but also note that even vanilla watchers is designed to be played by ToB level characters, so don’t expect a cake walk.

IMO if you are going to reset your adventure then you should make the effort to collect “Crom Faeyr”. The four items you need in what I consider order of easiest to hardest are;
1. I assume that you already have the scroll from killing Thaxll'ssillyia i.e. the shadow dragon inside the Temple Ruins but it’s not too late... bring protection from level drain items/ spells with you.
2.  Park/ kick the pally and have Valygar open the front door and pick him back up after wards... you need the strength gloves from here but you can’t leave until you finish the entire quest any way.
3. Return to the underdark * and sacrifice a summon to fight the 5 demon knights. Tip; you know where they will appear so set a spike trap and you can keep any weaker party members safely outside the room as long as you shut the door.
4. The actual hammer is in Athkatla Sewers (Mind Flayer Area)... you got the "Sewer Key” (Key 22) ** from killing Tazok in the Windspear Hills. You might have lost this but you can shadow keeper it back in.

* (number 3 on this map)
** Key 29

Modifié par ussnorway, 01 juillet 2012 - 02:06 .

[Son of Imoen]

I did view the various adventures inside Shadows of Amn as a kind of tapas dish, where you can pick what you want then continue to finish the story, but apparently I'm wrong and it's more like a complete meal where you have to finish your plate to get some healthy energy for finishing the game .

I didn't know about the demon knights, so I looked up where you can meet them: now I understand the meaning of the pop-up text at the altar I came across. Crom Faeyr should be a mighty fine weapon for my cleric-ranger .

[Mr Spidey]

Actually... Crom Faeyr isn't a very good weapon for clerics at all, which is quite ironic. The main attraction is that it sets strength to 25, but clerics don't need that from a weapon. They can simply cast Draw Upon Holy Might while using a strength belt to get 25 strength whenever needed, which leaves the gauntlets free to be used by some other character. Heck, DUHM + Righteous Magic will by itself take an 18 strength cleric to 25.

Personally I'd go for dual flails with warrior-clerics. Defender of Easthaven is ridiculously awesome off hand and Flail of Ages is probably the best main hand weapon in the game. Awesome damage, elemental damage that pierces stoneskins and kills trolls, and a slow effect that totally takes the bite out of most enemies.

Crom Faeyr is, in my opinion, immensely overrated, particularly for clerics. It's cool for a fighter to get 25 strength and +14 damage per hit, but your cleric/ranger excels at tanking. CF does nothing to help you do that better. DoE makes you tank a whole lot better, and it stacks with other sources of physical resistance. Armor of Faith and Hardiness springs to mind.

For non-clerics that can use edged weapons, the +14 damage per hit has to be contrasted with certain other weapons that provide an extra attack per round with the main hand. Belm is a fairly average Scimitar +2 in itself, but it allows another main hand attack. If that main hand is using an awesome weapon with good "on hit" effects, getting one more hit may be well worth "only" using a Scimitar +2 off hand.

The strength belt you can get from the demon knights gives you 21 strength. The Crom Faeyr gives 25 strength. 21 strength gives +4 to hit and +9 to damage. 25 strength is +7 to hit and + 14 to damage. The bonus to hit is insignificant and the damage bonus is a mere 5.

A dual wielding warrior with some weapon and Crom Faeyr will probably have 3.5 attacks per round. That's 49 damage from strength. Now consider Belm + the strength belt. Belm gives +1 attack per round which takes us to 4.5 attacks, and 4.5 attacks times +9 damage from strength equals 40.5 damage. The difference is 8 or 9 damage. Therefore, if your main hand weapon does more than 8 or 9 damage on average, it's better to use Belm and the strength belt than to use Crom Fayer off hand, in terms of raw damage. If the weapon has an "on hit" effect then Belm is much better.

[Son of Imoen]

I did the Trademeet quest, killed the Dragon whose name should not be spoken because you'll break your tong. Thalissys-something. And I just finished the Planar Sphere. Mr. Spidey's post got me thinking though, is Crom Faeyr worth the sacrificing of awesome Strength items. Well, the Gauntlets of Ogre Strength are only awesome now, as I haven't got a belt beyond Hill Giant Strength yet, but later on I could equip all my melee characters with Giant Strength Belts. And Flail of Ages plus Defender of Easthaven is indeed an awesome combination for my Cleric-Ranger. I reloaded an earlier save and picked Hardiness as second HLA (Lesser Deathblow is a pity, but it was too long back). Together they give a very good resistance against physical attacks. Only thing with HLA's, I always forget too use them (just like item abilities), concentrating on weapons on spells only, unless a really hard battle sets me thinking on what else I've got and I remember the star-shaped button and the knapsack-shaped button.

[ussnorway]

Is your Ranger/ Cleric the party tank?... yes “Defender of Easthaven” is a nice tanking weapon but CF is a +5 weapon and most straight Clerics or Cleric/ Mages (that enter melee) use it to off set their limited THAC0 for better DPS... standard Clerics only get one pip in two weapon fighting & generally put CF in their off hand, regardless IMO Clerics should only be tanking un-dead.

There is more strength enhancing items in ToB so that’s not an issue.

[AnonymousHero]

ussnorway wrote...

Is your Ranger/ Cleric the party tank?... yes “Defender of Easthaven” is a nice tanking weapon but CF is a +5 weapon and most straight Clerics or Cleric/ Mages (that enter melee) use it to off set their limited THAC0 for better DPS... standard Clerics only get one pip in two weapon fighting & generally put CF in their off hand, regardless IMO Clerics should only be tanking un-dead.

There is more strength enhancing items in ToB so that’s not an issue.

DUHM + Righteous Magic obviates the need for CF.

[ussnorway]

Assuming you have time (remember) to cast it and don’t think it can be dispelled/ otherwise see no need to use that level 5 slot to cast; ‘Insect Plague’, ‘Iron Skins’ or ‘Repulse Undead’ instead.

I see your point and agree that on a Fighter or most tanks CF is generally wasted.

[AnonymousHero]

ussnorway wrote...

Assuming you have time (remember) to cast it and don’t think it can be dispelled/ otherwise see no need to use that level 5 slot to cast; ‘Insect Plague’, ‘Iron Skins’ or ‘Repulse Undead’ instead.

I see your point and agree that on a Fighter or most tanks CF is generally wasted.

Almost all fights allow pre-buffing. If it's dispelled you can equip CF.

[Son of Imoen]

Update: I now have done all major SoA sidequests (but skipped all liches - damn they are tough) and the first two levels of Watcher's Keep. I did get Crom Faeyr but use it mostly as optional weapon for Keldorn (dual-wielded with Blade of Roses +4 if he isn't dealing with foes where Carsomyr is the most handy - i.e. neutral aligned non-magic enemies) and sometimes I give it to Amber, but she has the option to use Belm, which I have found now, as well (both dual-wielded with the Equalizer). I didn't do the math, but damage-output wise, Amber stands her ground well in melee now, though I also use her as an archer still sometimes.

Ammo-wise first level of Watcher's Keep is great: case and quiver of plenty made me able to sell all +1 bolts and arrows and with 3 ammo belts (1 is from the bagbonus mod) I have dedicated belts now for arrows, for bolts and for bullets+darts. Far less inventory worries now.

Other good news: I finely learned to make use of abilities, and Faihra has Lesser Deathblow, Hardiness under her button and Summon Deva in her spellbook.

And right now I'm going back to Suldenessar to let Irenicus bite the dust, 'cos I did open the 3rd level of Watcher's Keep but that Maze is very annoying, I'd rather come back later. Right now I want to finish at least 1 of my 5 ongoing SoA campaigns and get to experience what TOB is like.

Modifié par Son of Imoen, 13 juillet 2012 - 04:41 .

[Son of Imoen]

ussnorway wrote...

Put up PfE and lay some traps... that’s basic stuff but it will help keep the adds off you.

There are two strategies;
Fight adds with adds or swamp the area in ‘DeathFog’/ ‘SkullTrap’s (PfA)... irrespective, start the battle with your spell casters cloaked & target the Glabrezu daemons first because they see through any stealth but die easy. Have the Pally attack in melee while you retreat (only needs one PoA)  behind the traps and use RoR ( Rod of Resurrection) to heal him if you have it.

IMO the best way to counter a fallen planetar is with a Planetar/Deva but you can retreat if you have already dropped ‘DeathFog’s to whittle them down or your little buddy will go hostile against you as soon as their toes touch the fog... that’s why it’s one or the other but of course you can summon after the fog finishes.

I applied this tactic, placing traps in the area were the demons will appear and once Irenicus and his demons appear, I cast Death Fog and Incendiary Cloud at the area, but it seems to mess with Irenicus scripting. In his time-stop moment, he swallows a potion of superior healing, then another potion (it doesn't say which) then he's not heard of again. I was too busy fighting his demons, but once the demons are finished, still no sign of Irenicus. I can't save ('monsters are about'), but there's no Irenicus to fight, no signs of him casting something in the background, no animations, Keldorn's True Sight reveals nothing.

Anyone else noticed this bug with Irenicus, death fog casting at him and SCS scripting? (note: I didn't install the 'improved Irenicus in Hell component')

[Son of Imoen]

update: Even more strangeness, I've suddenly won!

To circumvent the bug I loaded a previous save, from this morning, when I had summoned a lot of help straight away before the battle started. Faihra was protected by a Blade Barrier, the Planetar I summoned by Globe of Blades. As soon as Irenicus appears and all dialogue is finished, I pause the game. Even before pausing, one of the first lines in the dialogue screen reads  'Faihra did 33 damage to Irenicus' (my Blade Barrier). In pause, I give orders to my mages, one of them a magic missile to disrupt his casting. When unpausing, the hasted Planetar starts hitting him.

I don't even now if the missiles were cast, everything went real quick as only a few seconds after unpausing, a cutscene of Irenicus and me being zapped appears, followed by a celebration led by Ellesime, which can only mean one thing: I did finish the game! Immediately after is the cutscene starting TOB, but I'll put that game on hold for a while.

For now I take some time to feel joyful I finished the game. And then there will be time to finish the game with Kheltick the Blade, Amniralda the Totemic Druid, Eriodal the Fighter-Mage and Abu Simbel the Cleric-Mage (and lover of Saerileth, just for laughs).

*edit: smaller paragraphs for easier reading.

Modifié par Son of Imoen, 19 juillet 2012 - 02:40 .

[ussnorway]

Well done Son of Imoen... a win without cheating is a win, enjoy it!

If it matters I think the BB damage broke his spell concentration & that was that cue the grateful elvan maidens.

[corey_russell]

Congratulations, Son of Imoen - always a nice feeling to take Irenicus down.

[Humanoid_Taifun]

Mr Spidey wrote...
Actually... Crom Faeyr isn't a very good weapon for clerics at all, which is quite ironic. [...]

While you are mostly right, Crom Faeyr is still one of the 2 highest damage dealing weapons for clerics (the other one being the Flail of Ages).

[Mr Spidey]

While you are mostly right, Crom Faeyr is still one of the 2 highest damage dealing weapons for clerics (the other one being the Flail of Ages).

CF is a warhammer +3 that sets strength to 25 and slays trolls and minor golems. Trolls and minor golems are not a danger so slaying them is irrelevant. That leaves "warhammer +3 that sets strength to 25". But to get that warhammer, you need to sacrifice a belt that sets strength to 21. If you simply give that belt to the cleric instead of making the hammer, he only needs +4 strength to get to 25. That's a level 12 cleric casting Draw Upon Holy Might, a level two spell. What else is a combat cleric going to memorize at spell level two? Hold Person or Silence '15?

That takes the 25 strength out of the picture. We're thus left with a warhammer +3, doing 2d4 +3 damage. That's 5 - 11 or 8 on average. Both Blackblood and Gnasher should be able to match that. The ingredient warhammer, Hammer of Thunderbolts, can also match that damage. Skullcrusher does half a point of damage less in the general case but 1.5 damage more vs humanoids.

Obviously, if we're just adding the weapon and looking at the damage without considering buffs and whatnot then yes, the CF does a lot of damage, but does it actually do more than the sum of the ingredients that go into forging it?

[Humanoid_Taifun]

Mr Spidey wrote...
We're thus left with a warhammer +3, doing 2d4 +3 damage. That's 5 - 11 or 8 on average. Both Blackblood and Gnasher should be able to match that.

Funny how you are first assuming buffs are active to declare that CF is useless for its strength 25, and then go on to assume that buffs are not active when determining the damage.
The damage is 11.
Of course I apologize regardless. I seem to have misremembered (or remembered from a modded game). In my memory it was 2D4+5 +5 electrical.

[Mr Spidey]

Funny how you are first assuming buffs are active to declare that CF is useless for its strength 25, and then go on to assume that buffs are not active when determining the damage.
The damage is 11.

Not at all. Damage won't be 11 unless you can keep Righteous Magic running at all times. I simply assumed that casting DUHM for whenever the cleric needed 25 strength would be quite possible.

Once that's established, we might as well move on to the base weapon damage without getting distracted by buffs. It's true that Crommy wins slightly more on having Righteous Magic active but it's not going to change anything as far as I can tell.

Of course I apologize regardless. I seem to have misremembered (or remembered from a modded game). In my memory it was 2D4+5 +5 electrical.

Well, that would've been quite a different situation, I'll give you that. That much damage would make it a good main hand weapon and reduce my complaints to at least partial rubbish. :-)