151 réponses à ce sujet

[MisterJB]

Guess Ashley was right.

[Edolix]

Barquiel wrote...

Well, Tali stole the Normandy's stealth system tech and gave it to the Quarians

...to help them prepare for the Reapers. She did the right thing.

[Ryzaki]

MisterJB wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...
 Only Quarian my Shep could stand was Qwib Qwib. 

No mention of Kal'Reegar? For shame!

They killed Reeger offscreen I'm STILL pissed about that.

Oh and Veetor was adorable. I can't hand him over to Cerberus. The guilt's too much DX

[MisterJB]

The right thing for the quarians. Not humanity, she bloody stole our technology.

[Ryzaki]

MisterJB wrote...

The right thing for the quarians. Not humanity, she bloody stole our technology.

The sad thing is all she needed to do was ask my Shep.

He would've given them to her. (unless it was my renedouche in which case her taking them is reasonable).

But no she goes behind his back like a thief.

Oh well. He sides with the Geth anyways.

Modifié par Ryzaki, 29 juin 2012 - 06:58 .

[DevilBeast]

Darman wrote...

I personally disagree with some of the quarian peoples opinions. But Tali doesn't represent those.

And I love her because of her character - her skills - her appearance - everything about her is admirable. Shes the complete opposite of selfish, shes cute and smart. Her face didn't matter in first place. Btw, you could always imagine the shape of it and somehow i always knew it has to be pretty as hell. And well, i wasn't wrong after all and are very pleased with the canon image of her.

The quarian people aren't selfish, too. They just have to think of their own people primary. Because they are always in danger, not respected, loathed for the geth and accused as beggars and thiefs all over the galaxy.
And as pointed out by others before - they build a pretty strong community. And live up to strict rules of their society. They all care for each other because they must. This is not a bad characteristic.
And their mindset to the geth - Who can blame them for it? I mean, they lost Millions if not Billions of fathers, mothers, daughters and sons during the morning war. Don't tell me you would react in another way if something similar happened to our race, no matter who fired the first round.

And if Destroy would have killed all Quarians - I would have never decided to do it.

That can be said about the Geth too, and because of that I don´t view neither the Quarians nor the Geth as being inferior to the other.

As for the destroy ending: I would have choosen it no matter which species it is; Geth, Quarians, Asari, Salarians even humans I would have been willing to sacrifice if it meant saving the rest of the galaxy´s (both present and future) civilizations from that cycle of extinction the reapers have forced upon them.

[Darman]

DevilBeast wrote...

That can be said about the Geth too, and because of that I don´t view neither the Quarians nor the Geth as being inferior to the other.

As for the destroy ending: I would have choosen it no matter which species it is; Geth, Quarians, Asari, Salarians even humans I would have been willing to sacrifice if it meant saving the rest of the galaxy´s (both present and future) civilizations from that cycle of extinction the reapers have forced upon them.

Geth do not have fathers or mothers. No daughters or sons. At this point, they don't even have emotions. The share no love between two units. They have no identities or subjective memories (til Legion) If one of them falls, the software withdraws and the unit gets replaced. They're a collective. They are indeed at this point very different form the Quarian people.

And you would have sacrificed the Quarians, because you did not fell in love with one of them.
But fortunatly this discussion is hypothetic because what sense would it make to kill Quarians just as Reapers - they share no obvious connection as Geth and Reapers do. (They are synthetic AND carry a reaper code in their software)

[Edolix]

Ryzaki wrote...

MisterJB wrote...

The right thing for the quarians. Not humanity, she bloody stole our technology.

The sad thing is all she needed to do was ask my Shep.

He would've given them to her. (unless it was my renedouche in which case her taking them is reasonable).

But no she goes behind his back like a thief.

Oh well. He sides with the Geth anyways.

I really don't see the big deal tbh. If there was no Reaper threat and Tali did indeed steal the Normandy tech, then i'd lose a lot of respect for her. But they all knew the Reapers were coming - they all had to prepare. I'm not going to hate on Tali for doing something that i'd have done if I were in her shoes. Also, I seriously doubt Shepard could have given away classified Alliance stealth tech even if asked *shrugs* but w/e.

Look at it this way: If the Quarians didn't have that stealth tech, they'd have no way of getting out of the Rannoch relay. This means they wouldn't be able to contact you for help, and you (Shepard) would be completely unaware of the situation in the Veil. In short, they'd all end up being annhilated by the Heretic Geth. This means you lose not one, but potentially two fleets. Worse, once the Quarians are gone the Reapers would most likely send the Geth fleets (at least fifteen thousand ships, probably more) out of the Veil to fight your allies. Including humanity.

I think in the long run Tali "stealing" that technology really isn't anything to get worked up over.

[Mr. Big Pimpin]

Can someone point to where "Tali stealing Normandy tech" has actually been confirmed, either in-game or out? The basis for this hypothesis is a codex entry that was likely just thought up on the spot and never meant to imply anything of the sort. If this was meant to actually be what happened, the issue would actually be addressed in-game. This is people reading too hard into things again, just like that Klencory planet and the "lost beings of light" or whatever was mentioned in its codex entry.

Modifié par Mr. Big Pimpin, 29 juin 2012 - 07:46 .

[Ryzaki]

Edolix wrote...
I really don't see the big deal tbh. If there was no Reaper threat and Tali did indeed steal the Normandy tech, then i'd lose a lot of respect for her. But they all knew the Reapers were coming - they all had to prepare. I'm not going to hate on Tali for doing something that i'd have done if I were in her shoes. Also, I seriously doubt Shepard could have given away classified Alliance stealth tech even if asked *shrugs* but w/e.

Look at it this way: If the Quarians didn't have that stealth tech, they'd have no way of getting out of the Rannoch relay. This means they wouldn't be able to contact you for help, and you (Shepard) would be completely unaware of the situation in the Veil. In short, they'd all end up being annhilated by the Heretic Geth. This means you lose not one, but potentially two fleets. Worse, once the Quarians are gone the Reapers would most likely send the Geth fleets (at least fifteen thousand ships, probably more) out of the Veil to fight your allies. Including humanity.

I think in the long run Tali "stealing" that technology really isn't anything to get worked up over.

For you sure. For my Shep it's a betrayal. (that he later repays in kind). She could've gotten in contact with Shepard hell she could've asked during ME2 when she knows the Reapers are coming. She just decided to be sneaky about it.

As for the last bit. Sure Shepard would. Shep does stupid crap all the time! He gives her a copy of classified geth data that he found under alliance command. He wasn't supposed to give her that data (thus why the renegade response is No.) but he gave it to her anyway because he knew she could help her people with it.

And no Shep has no way of knowing that. As for the heretic geth. They're not heretics in ME3. The Quarians attacking him forced them to submit or die. They chose to sumbit to the Reapers. If not for the Quarians the Geth would've had little reason to join the Reapers. So if the Quarians hadn't started the fight in the first place no one would've had to waste time and resources and the Reapers wouldn't have gotten the advantage so quickly in that system. So yeah the Quarians didn't help humanity. They helped themselves.

To each their own. My Shep it as a betrayal and proving Ashley right (hilariously enough Tali is arguably the one she's the least suspicious of. Nice instinct there Ash. Not.)

Modifié par Ryzaki, 29 juin 2012 - 07:47 .

[Edolix]

Mr. Big Pimpin wrote...

Can someone point to where "Tali stealing Normandy tech" has actually been confirmed, either in-game or out? The basis for this hypothesis is a codex entry that was likely just thought up on the spot and never meant to imply anything of the sort. If this was meant to actually be what happened, the issue would actually be addressed in-game.

Yeah, I don't know anything about it either. I'm guessing they saw the Codex entry in "Priority: Speak with the Quarians", read the part about the Quarian ship having stealth capabilities and assumed Tali stole them *shrugs* I really don't know if it's true or not, thought i'd just argue for the sake of it though lol.

[DevilBeast]

Darman wrote...

DevilBeast wrote...

That can be said about the Geth too, and because of that I don´t view neither the Quarians nor the Geth as being inferior to the other.

As for the destroy ending: I would have choosen it no matter which species it is; Geth, Quarians, Asari, Salarians even humans I would have been willing to sacrifice if it meant saving the rest of the galaxy´s (both present and future) civilizations from that cycle of extinction the reapers have forced upon them.

Geth do not have fathers or mothers. No daughters or sons. At this point, they don't even have emotions. The share no love between two units. They have no identities or subjective memories (til Legion) If one of them falls, the software withdraws and the unit gets replaced. They're a collective. They are indeed at this point very different form the Quarian people.

And you would have sacrificed the Quarians, because you did not fell in love with one of them.
But fortunatly this discussion is hypothetic because what sense would it make to kill Quarians just as Reapers - they share no obvious connection as Geth and Reapers do. (They are synthetic AND carry a reaper code in their software)

So, if someone doesn´t have any close family they are allowed to just be eradicated like that?? The Geth didn´t fight the Quarians because they wanted to. They did it because the other choice would have been extinction. 
As we talked about earlier in the thread the majority of the Quarians actually didn´t want to kill the Geth, but they were quickly silenced by the Quarian government and military.  And I think, since then, the Quarians have been raised to believe that it was all Geth vs. all Quarians and not Quarians and Geth vs. other Quarians.

As for the Geth´s sentience. Well, to me the Geth seemed like children that wanted to know about the world and their place in it, but was instead met with violence and fear.
Now, this is only what I believe, so please do not think I stated it as a fact; but I think that if you treat someone like a monster they will eventually become one. If you beat a child up and never show it any empathy then it has high risk of becoming like someone who can´t experience empathy either.

No, I haven´t fallen in love with a Quarian... Mainly because I usually don´t fall for videogame characters;)
Sorry, bad joke. I know you mean falling in love through the character of Shepard. Well, if you notice I also wrote Asari on the list of species I´m willing to sacrifice if it meant saving everyone else from the reapers. And as oyu probably can see in my choice of profile pic and banners I´m a Liaramancer and she´s an Asari, so yeah...

[Terrorize69]

DevilBeast wrote...

Terrorize69 wrote...
As to your second part.

"Many quarians did not want to oppose the geth, but were forced to give
up or terminate their geth servants. After the quarian government
declared martial law on Rannoch, those who sympathized with the geth
were outnumbered, and most were either detained or killed. The quarian
sympathizers have since been forgotten by their own people, though they
are remembered by the geth themselves."

It was the minority that did what they did to the geth, sadly it was a minority that was in power, aka, government/military.

Oh, I didn´t know that. Well, I knew that the Geth kept the memory of the Quarians who defended them alive, but I didn´t know that they actually were in the majority. So, thank you for telling me:)

I guess that goes to show that it´s their government, both in the past and the present, that are the real bastards of the Quarian people:?

Yeah once again showing that Quarians are the ME's version of modern day humans (aka us not ME Humans). Do we blame countrys etc for their faults, or those that rule them? Not sure why Quarians should be different lol. For example, the Iraq war, most didn't want it, but what the people want holds little power against what a govermen wants, but.. we still will fight for our country/government. Because it's our home we are supporting.

Thulnuz wrote...

Terrorize69 wrote...

Like I
said on the other page, why jump to the defence of a galaxy that has
kicked you down for 300 years. Hardly irrational to not help them after
such abuse.

So do you think it's lot more rational to
get killed  in a war to take back their homeworld, which is actually
part of this galaxy?  Without Shepard (who is actually part of this bad,
bad galaxy too) they would have been harvested long before they even
set a foot on their homeworld.
Plus: Why should anyone help them?
Why should anyone even be sorry for them? They brought this  upon
theirselves by creating the geth.

Yes. Makes sense doesn't it? If you are going to die, you want to die at peace/at home. With those that you love. Ofcourse they'd rather die trying to take back their homeworld. The Quarians would of went to war withotu Shepards aid, and sure without his/her aid, their chances would of been slim. BUT, it's their home, if they had to choose a way out (dying), I'm pretty sure they'd be happy with dying for the idea that why may get thier home back.

Plus: Why should they help the galaxy, the galaxy/council brought the Krogan upon everyone.

Works both ways.

[beaverskenneth]

Terrorize69 wrote...

Tbh lol IMO to me they resemble the modren day human race, aka mainly my culture/race/background (British) so theres a strong personal attachment for me, also they have a strong sense of patriotism as a race appeals greatly to me, whatever anyone can say about the Quarians, you cannot deny how patriotic they are, more then any other race.

And selfish? How so? They again IMO are the most selfless race, everything they do they do for the future and beenfit of the fleet and their race. Each one putting the needs of the fleet before thier own personal needs.

Ok I know that they choose to go to war with the Geth while the Reapers are attacking the rest of the Galaxy, but in their defence, when has the Galaxy ever treated them as equals? It's strongly hinted (and mentioned in some way) through out ME1 and 2 that the Galaxy view them as a lower class race, not worthy to apply for jobs or live on with other cultures. Why should they rush to the Galaxies aid when the Galaxy has done its best to keep kicking them while they are down?

I love the Quarians because I feel like I can relate to them. I am from the United States, but I strongly identify with them for more than one reason. The strongest being their masks. I know they wear them for physical protection, but since I am bipolar and horribly misunderstood on a regular basis, I wear emotional masks every day. I do this for my own personal emotional protection, as well as the protection of others. I am never myself when interacting with people in person, and even sometimes online. This is obviously a strong resemblance.

Their patriotism I can relate to, as well. Not every Quarian supports the war against the geth, but every single Quarian would lay down their life for the cause. This is because even if they disagree with their government, they love their people. This is how I feel. I am a veteran, and I joined BECAUSE of 911 which occured when I was in grade nine. I knew that I didn't like our government, let alone my commander in chief (Bush) when I was in, but I would have DIED for my country, had I been given no other choice. 

Come to think of it, I would DIE for humanity if let with no other choice. That said, I love you all. 

[4stringwizard]

Ryzaki wrote...

MisterJB wrote...

The right thing for the quarians. Not humanity, she bloody stole our technology.

The sad thing is all she needed to do was ask my Shep.

He would've given them to her. (unless it was my renedouche in which case her taking them is reasonable).

But no she goes behind his back like a thief.

Oh well. He sides with the Geth anyways.

Tali never stole the stealth systems, but whatever.  Have fun committing your genocide.  

[Ryzaki]

4stringwizard wrote...
Tali never stole the stealth systems, but whatever.  Have fun committing your genocide.  

Wrong. (to the last bit the former is up to debate) the Quarians killed themselves. My Shep told them to stop. Them not listening wasn't his problem. He wasn't going to sacrifice the Geth for them.

My Shep only committs genocide when it's time to fire the Crucible.

Modifié par Ryzaki, 29 juin 2012 - 08:00 .

[4stringwizard]

Ryzaki wrote...

4stringwizard wrote...
Tali never stole the stealth systems, but whatever.  Have fun committing your genocide.  

Wrong. (to the last bit the former is up to debate) the Quarians killed themselves. My Shep told them to stop. Them not listening wasn't his problem. He wasn't going to sacrifice the Geth for them.

Yes, willingly sacrificing an entire organic race for machines that aren't alive AND sided with the Reapers.  Twice.  How very noble of you. 

Modifié par 4stringwizard, 29 juin 2012 - 08:00 .

[Ryzaki]

4stringwizard wrote...
Yes, willingly sacrificing a whole race for machines that aren't alive AND sided with the Reapers.  Twice.  How very noble of you. 

In your opinion. As far as my Shep's concerned them and EDI are alive. As for siding with the Reapers first off only part of them sided with the Reapers once and the second time they sided with the reapers rather than be wiped out by the Quarians that are currently attacking them. Submission was preferable to extinction.

So nope...not feeling any guilt for siding with them. They were the on the defensive in this scenario. Quarians just learned the hard way when you corner a dog attempting to kill him he'll rip out your throat if he has to survive.

So yes saving the Geth was indeed very noble of my Shep thanks. 

Modifié par Ryzaki, 29 juin 2012 - 08:04 .

[DevilBeast]

beaverskenneth wrote...

Terrorize69 wrote...

Tbh lol IMO to me they resemble the modren day human race, aka mainly my culture/race/background (British) so theres a strong personal attachment for me, also they have a strong sense of patriotism as a race appeals greatly to me, whatever anyone can say about the Quarians, you cannot deny how patriotic they are, more then any other race.

And selfish? How so? They again IMO are the most selfless race, everything they do they do for the future and beenfit of the fleet and their race. Each one putting the needs of the fleet before thier own personal needs.

Ok I know that they choose to go to war with the Geth while the Reapers are attacking the rest of the Galaxy, but in their defence, when has the Galaxy ever treated them as equals? It's strongly hinted (and mentioned in some way) through out ME1 and 2 that the Galaxy view them as a lower class race, not worthy to apply for jobs or live on with other cultures. Why should they rush to the Galaxies aid when the Galaxy has done its best to keep kicking them while they are down?

I love the Quarians because I feel like I can relate to them. I am from the United States, but I strongly identify with them for more than one reason. The strongest being their masks. I know they wear them for physical protection, but since I am bipolar and horribly misunderstood on a regular basis, I wear emotional masks every day. I do this for my own personal emotional protection, as well as the protection of others. I am never myself when interacting with people in person, and even sometimes online. This is obviously a strong resemblance.

Their patriotism I can relate to, as well. Not every Quarian supports the war against the geth, but every single Quarian would lay down their life for the cause. This is because even if they disagree with their government, they love their people. This is how I feel. I am a veteran, and I joined BECAUSE of 911 which occured when I was in grade nine. I knew that I didn't like our government, let alone my commander in chief (Bush) when I was in, but I would have DIED for my country, had I been given no other choice. 

Come to think of it, I would DIE for humanity if let with no other choice. That said, I love you all. 

Well, country and government is not necerssarily interchangeable. Sometimes people even fight their own governments because of their strong sense of nationhood.
And I´m not sure that the government of the Quarians are competent enough to take care of their people.

[Terrorize69]

beaverskenneth wrote...

Terrorize69 wrote...

Tbh lol IMO to me they resemble the modren day human race, aka mainly my culture/race/background (British) so theres a strong personal attachment for me, also they have a strong sense of patriotism as a race appeals greatly to me, whatever anyone can say about the Quarians, you cannot deny how patriotic they are, more then any other race.

And selfish? How so? They again IMO are the most selfless race, everything they do they do for the future and beenfit of the fleet and their race. Each one putting the needs of the fleet before thier own personal needs.

Ok I know that they choose to go to war with the Geth while the Reapers are attacking the rest of the Galaxy, but in their defence, when has the Galaxy ever treated them as equals? It's strongly hinted (and mentioned in some way) through out ME1 and 2 that the Galaxy view them as a lower class race, not worthy to apply for jobs or live on with other cultures. Why should they rush to the Galaxies aid when the Galaxy has done its best to keep kicking them while they are down?

I love the Quarians because I feel like I can relate to them. I am from the United States, but I strongly identify with them for more than one reason. The strongest being their masks. I know they wear them for physical protection, but since I am bipolar and horribly misunderstood on a regular basis, I wear emotional masks every day. I do this for my own personal emotional protection, as well as the protection of others. I am never myself when interacting with people in person, and even sometimes online. This is obviously a strong resemblance.

Their patriotism I can relate to, as well. Not every Quarian supports the war against the geth, but every single Quarian would lay down their life for the cause. This is because even if they disagree with their government, they love their people. This is how I feel. I am a veteran, and I joined BECAUSE of 911 which occured when I was in grade nine. I knew that I didn't like our government, let alone my commander in chief (Bush) when I was in, but I would have DIED for my country, had I been given no other choice. 

Come to think of it, I would DIE for humanity if let with no other choice. That said, I love you all. 

The bolded part, is what most fail to realise about the Quarians, and it's one of the biggest reasons I love them. The Quarians are like most of the worlds military forces, they will die for they race/country/home regardless of their personal views and beliefs. Alot of Quarians know the War is wrong etc, but they still go to war, not cause they are selfish, they carried out their mission knowing full well what was going to happen. Self-sacrifice... because that was their duty.

[L. Han]

Well I dislike Asari, always arrogant. Better?

[Terrorize69]

DevilBeast wrote...

Well, country and government is not necerssarily interchangeable. Sometimes people even fight their own governments because of their strong sense of nationhood.
And I´m not sure that the government of the Quarians are competent enough to take care of their people.

They arn't but the people are too few to cause a divide, if they did, both "factions" wouldn't survive the Galaxy and the race would go exinct.

And I'm pretty sure that the "Government/Leadership" that rules the Quarians, would be the ruling body that managed to save thier race from extinction by evac'ing Rannoch 300years ago, maybe cause of that the Government was held in high regards, could do no wrong in the peoples eyes, or they could but they'd follow regardless because they owe the existence to them.

^Completely my opinon ofcourse, but some official body would of organized the evac, it's likely to be the same one that rules now.

[Ryzaki]

Rickets wrote...

Well I dislike Asari, always arrogant. Better?

Ugh thanks for the reminder. I hate post Thessia. Shep's all D: I failed to the Asari councilor instead of biting her head off for hiding the Beacon for so damn long.

[Terrorize69]

Oh and anyone that picks one race over the other... both your Shepards are jerks lol, nothing noble about committing genocide, against either side.

[4stringwizard]

Ryzaki wrote...

4stringwizard wrote...
Yes, willingly sacrificing a whole race for machines that aren't alive AND sided with the Reapers.  Twice.  How very noble of you. 

In your opinion. As far as my Shep's concerned them and EDI are alive. As for siding with the Reapers first off only part of them sided with the Reapers once and the second time they sided with the reapers rather than be wiped out by the Quarians that are currently attacking them. Submission was preferable to extinction.

So nope...not feeling any guilt for siding with them. They were the on the defensive in this scenario. Quarians just learned the hard way when you corner a dog attempting to kill him he'll rip out your throat if he has to survive.

So yes saving the Geth was indeed very noble of my Shep thanks. 

Actually, it was a moot point whether or not they were alive at first.  After the EC though, it's indirectly stated that the Geth/EDI were never truly alive until "synthesis" happened.  The same Geth who decided to side with the Reapers when they didn't actually have to.  Of course, it goes to show you that the Geth, when backed into a corner, will do anything to save their hides (even if it means siding with the greatest galactic threat ever known).  Yep, that makes them really trustworthy. 

As far as "defensive", it's not being defensive when you commit genocide against the attackers, which is exactly what the Geth and Shepard do when siding against the Quarians.  Yes, Shepard had a hand in it too.  Sometimes inaction is the same as committing the act yourself. 

Don't feel bad though.  There are no dumb opinions, just dumb people.