156 réponses à ce sujet

[Forbry]

miracleofsound wrote...

It is quite clear from the slides that synthesis leaves each race and even each individual with their own identity and diversity. Krogan build back their blocky megastructures (and are clearly still able to reproduce organically and naturally), Quarians rebuild their slick, linear Rannoch cities, humans co-operate to rebuild earth... everyone on the Normandy clearly retains their individual personalities.

From what I can see, all it does is link everyone together in a subtle way that gives greater understanding and acceptance of their differences - almost like it just shares the collective knowledge and memory of the many previous cycles with everyone. The green tech effect could almost be seen as a metaphor for this gentle unity - at least that's how I see it.

When people complain about synthesis being exactly what Saren wanted, I feel they are missing the point, no? 

I saw that the same way.

[AxStapleton]

To be honest, in all of the best (high EMS) endings, it was smiles all round.

[miracleofsound]

C9316 wrote...

Synthesis is completely wrong because it goes against the themes of diversity in Mass Effect and how it brings unity. You basically end up doing the Reaper's job for them because in a way by making everyone more or less the same through synthesis you remove the so called chaos of organic life, and it is that same chaos which drives life forward, the conflict that we face in life is indeed worth it when we advance on our terms, and this ending just takes all that away. At this point I can only imagine the world experiencing stagnation after the initial honeymoon period.

I didn't see it that way at all. The slides show very clearly that every species retains its own individuality.

[Deltateam Elcor]

Javik, said that were he ever to become partly synthetic, he would kill himself.

He seems rather alive, which leads to the argument of "too much" change.

The choice is still disgusting from anything other than a purist, fascist and eugenics supporting mind anyway.

[guacamayus]

I don't think synthesis forces anyone to coexist, organics are improved through technology and synthetics gain understanding of organics. They now have the tools to put their differences aside, that's probably the consequence of a very developed society not the result of brain washing. In my opinion synthesis hastens the process that is supposed to happen thousands - even millions of years from now.

[Forbry]

guacamayus wrote...

I don't think synthesis forces anyone to coexist, organics are improved through technology and synthetics gain understanding of organics. They now have the tools to put their differences aside, that's probably the consequence of a very developed society not the result of brain washing. In my opinion synthesis hastens the process that is supposed to happen thousands - even millions of years from now.

This, this, this!

[Fnordamatic]

Synthesis is my favorite ending. Through the process of astonishing upheaval and suffering, a new understanding is ultimately formed and leads to the next stage of evolution. And while I understand that, from the perspective of the person having to make the choice to do it (Shepard), it is a choice which perhaps should not be made, the ultimate outcome is clearly shown to be pretty damn awesome.

But there is an aspect to all the endings which I haven't seen anyone really account for, and that is the nature of Shepard himself, and what he has become. The Catalyst AI makes it clear that the process of synthesis will involve Shepard's essence being distilled and basically used as the 'code' for this new form of existence. This is because Shepard is, to use a slightly crude term, 'The Chosen One." He's the first organic to ever confront the mind of the Reapers. He was able to broker peace between organics and synthetics, and we can infer from the Catalyst's words that such a thing had never occurred before.

The catalyst gives Shepard the options to destroy/control/synthesise because it understands what he is.

Basically, he's Space Jesus.

[miracleofsound]

guacamayus wrote...

I don't think synthesis forces anyone to coexist, organics are improved through technology and synthetics gain understanding of organics. They now have the tools to put their differences aside, that's probably the consequence of a very developed society not the result of brain washing. In my opinion synthesis hastens the process that is supposed to happen thousands - even millions of years from now.

That's kinda how I felt about it too.

[Td1984]

Optimystic_X wrote...

Welcome to the fold. Pro-Synthesis folks are steadily increasing thanks to EC.

Before the EC, I used to pick Synthesis every time. Now that I only need an EMS of 3100 for Shep to survive Destroy, Destroy is now more likely to be my choice. Not that I suddenly hate Synthesis.

[KingZayd]

alienatedflea wrote...

KingZayd wrote...

GeoFukari wrote...

Dusen wrote...

Since we're using the "by force" perspective for sythesis let's look at this example:

You have two children who always fight each other. Now which is the better conclusion?
1) You teach the two to respect each other and that violence is wrong to the point that they understand and neither one fights the other again
-or-
2) You tie them both to chairs and brainwash them against their wills into agreeing with your pacifist mindset

But, we already did 1. The Geth/Quarian mission remember?

2 is pretty much what Synthesis is.

and 1 was working.

People who chose Synthesis must clearly think 1) isn't enough.

so forcing AI individuality is fine and peace but not synthesis...yea okay

Forcing AI individuality? Forcing peace?
please elaborate?

[Siansonea]

Adanu wrote...

A lot of the people here feel morality gets in the way of this choice. They're being silly, but what can you do with close minded fools?

Your last name isn't "Mengele" is it? 

[Welsh Inferno]

guacamayus wrote...

I don't think synthesis forces anyone to coexist, organics are improved through technology and synthetics gain understanding of organics. They now have the tools to put their differences aside, that's probably the consequence of a very developed society not the result of brain washing. In my opinion synthesis hastens the process that is supposed to happen thousands - even millions of years from now.

This.

[Kanon777]

KingZayd wrote...

Forcing AI individuality? Forcing peace?
please elaborate?

They are trying to make up reasons to dislike synthesys. It dosent matter if there is any in game evidence, as long as they get to dislike the green ending they will believe any bad thing about they can invent about it...

[Kanon777]

Siansonea II wrote...

Adanu wrote...

A lot of the people here feel morality gets in the way of this choice. They're being silly, but what can you do with close minded fools?

Your last name isn't "Mengele" is it? 

Care to explain (with in game evidence, not silly speculation/assumption) how synthesys harms anyone involved in the process?

[jla0644]

Sisterofshane wrote...

As to the OP, it is homogeneity.  EDI even says so - she says the lines between "synthetic" and "organic" blur.  Eventually they will reach a point where there is no line.  You have taken two distinct forms of life and removed what made them distinuishable.

The point that they retain their "individual" personalities for the time being is irrelevant.

Yes, she said the line between synthetic and organic. Not the line between turian and human, or asari and krogan, or batarian and volus.

Also, you have nothing to support your claim that indivudality is only temporary except your own headcanon.

[Kanon777]

jla0644 wrote...
Yes, she said the line between synthetic and organic. Not the line between turian and human, or asari and krogan, or batarian and volus.

Also, you have nothing to support your claim that indivudality is only temporary except your imagination and desire to hate synthesys regardless of what it actually means.

Fixed for you 

[Siansonea]

Kanon777 wrote...

Siansonea II wrote...

Adanu wrote...

A lot of the people here feel morality gets in the way of this choice. They're being silly, but what can you do with close minded fools?

Your last name isn't "Mengele" is it? 

Care to explain (with in game evidence, not silly speculation/assumption) how synthesys harms anyone involved in the process?

Define "harm"? 

Oh, the fact that everyone is blissfully happy with their Reaper upgrades? Yeah, doesn't look like they're harmed at all. 

But the fact that every lifeform in the galaxy is forcefully and irrevocably altered on a DNA level without their consent? I'd call that harm. But maybe I'm just a stickler for self-determination.

[Fox In The Box]

I suppose it's not so much homogenity as much as the idea that two different forms of life cannot possibly live peacefully together just because they are different and not because of intolerance. That particular way of thinking has resultet in... a lot of terrible things.

[Sisterofshane]

jla0644 wrote...

Sisterofshane wrote...

As to the OP, it is homogeneity.  EDI even says so - she says the lines between "synthetic" and "organic" blur.  Eventually they will reach a point where there is no line.  You have taken two distinct forms of life and removed what made them distinuishable.

The point that they retain their "individual" personalities for the time being is irrelevant.

Yes, she said the line between synthetic and organic. Not the line between turian and human, or asari and krogan, or batarian and volus.

Also, you have nothing to support your claim that indivudality is only temporary except your own headcanon.

It's what I assume, yes, but nothing makes my assumption less right than yours.
Look at the Geth(pre-upgrades) to see where I base my assumption on.

[Bladedrummer]

My personal opinion.

The only homogeneity is in sentiment. Each individual appears as if they still hold true to their own identity, but as an added bonus they share in the same pool of perception of one another. They gain pure empathy. They are in many ways part of the same thing AND they now know it and feel it, hence they have no interest in hurting each other as it would, quite literally, be like hurting themselves.

Basically the focus has shifted from trying to gain the most benefit for each individual, planet, race, galaxy or faction to a more universal gain for all civilizations as a whole. "We are all in this together as one". Each individual works towards the infamous "common good" which results in changes for the better for everyone. Example: Geth and Quarians help each other rebuild the world that they had previously destroyed by being at war.

To me, this is a good thing.

[Omega2079]

Taboo-XX wrote...

Adanu wrote...

A lot of the people here feel morality gets in the way of this choice. They're being silly, but what can you do with close minded fools?

That's some terrifying far right thinking right there.

That has nothing to do with political orientation.

[Atrave]

alienatedflea wrote...

Taboo-XX wrote...

alienatedflea wrote...

Taboo-XX wrote...

alienatedflea wrote...

I dont know...It appears that because of synthesis, we put our differences aside...even tho we are a step closer to being the same

By...FORCE.

This is the diffence.

you imply force was not legitimate? consented? or whatever?

Of course it's by force. You have forced people to come to an understanding. That's what Synthesis does.

What the hell are you trying to argue?

my point is that shepard was given consent by everyone the whole time....is it still force when everyone trusted shepard to do the right thing?  REMEMEBER no one knew what the catalyst does before the end.  The simple fact that the civilizations of the galaxy wanted shepard to lead the fight to retake earth and the fact that they protected shepard all the way to the transporter beams says alot.  Shepard was the candidate to activate the crucible and when we learned about our options, we decided with implied consent with everyone in the galaxy...Much like in politics when you elect a representative...they will do/vote for what you deem is the "greater" good.

Your arguement is flawed.

Ok, enough of that.  Because people asked him to protect them from a threat does not mean he gets authority over their lives.  Soldiers do not, in any way ever, have that right.  Do you honestly think if a soldier is protecting you from a life threating situation, he or she can then make decisions that dictate the rest of your life?  No.  The people in the story are asking him to protect them from the Reapers.  This does not grant him unlimited authority over them.

If a Major (not even a commanding general) in Afghanistan right now made a decision to stop all conflicts but you had to cut off your right and and become a-sexual, I would guess you wouldnt be happy about that.  A military officer is not elected by the people as a representive. They do not have the authority or right to do what you are suggesting.

For the record, I was a soldier and officer for 5 years and never took my position to mean I had unverisal consent to decide the fate of people I was charged with protecting.  

Now, if you want to make the argument that Shepard, as a person, made that decision because it was best: fine.  But dont say because he was a soldier charged with protecting people that he had the implied consent to dictate their fate.

Thanks

Modifié par Atrave, 29 juin 2012 - 08:46 .

[Siansonea]

Bladedrummer wrote...

My personal opinion.

The only homogeneity is in sentiment. Each individual appears as if they still hold true to their own identity, but as an added bonus they share in the same pool of perception of one another. They gain pure empathy. They are in many ways part of the same thing AND they now know it and feel it, hence they have no interest in hurting each other as it would, quite literally, be like hurting themselves.

Basically the focus has shifted from trying to gain the most benefit for each individual, planet, race, galaxy or faction to a more universal gain for all civilizations as a whole. "We are all in this together as one". Each individual works towards the infamous "common good" which results in changes for the better for everyone. Example: Geth and Quarians help each other rebuild the world that they had previously destroyed by being at war.

To me, this is a good thing.

Sounds like Borg assimilation to me.

[Gogzilla]

In the original version no one knew WTF synthesis was so like whatever right.

In the EC you get a better sense of whats happening to the galaxy post-synthesis.

However still
When it comes to synthesis people entirely miss the point.
All i hear is rhetoric.

Modifié par Gogzilla, 29 juin 2012 - 08:53 .

[Siansonea]

Gogzilla wrote...

In the original version no one knew WTF synthesis was so like whatever right.

In the EC you get a better sense of whats happening to the galaxy post-synthesis.

However still
When it comes to synthesis people entirely miss the point.
All i hear is rhetoric.

And what is this point we're all missing, O Enlightened One?