345 réponses à ce sujet

[Cyonan]

Magicman10893 wrote...

RecoonHoodie wrote...

What exactly the force in powers do? Makes them fly further? Adds damage in some way? Explain please.

Based on what I've seen while playing, force basically governs how far enemies fly when hit. Human Adept melee does little damage, but a high amount of force causes enemies to fly across the room the same way that Krogan Heavy Melee does. Enemeis can also take additional damage from hitting the environment (floors, walls, ceilings, etc.) so I imagine force increases this environmental damage. That is all purely based on what I've experienced and as I do not have any way to clarify for certain, that is the best I can do for now.

Force decides how far a target flies when it gets the ragdoll effect, as well as how easily enemies are staggered. Heavier enemies like the Brute or Atlas require more force to stagger. It also adds a bit of damage. Also as you've noted, while ragdolling hitting solid objects causes more damage, and the damage algorithms on this are really wierd. I've seen targets slam into a wall and only take like 2 bars and other targets glance off the wall and die from it.

Also worth noting, force does not cause the ragdoll effect. In an attempt to see if I could make Tech Armour have a knockdown effect instead of a stagger, I cranked the force of the detonation upto 10000 and took it into SP. Enemies were still just being staggered.

I suspect they have a separate file somewhere that states which effects are able to cause the ragdoll effect.

[dimitrie]

inakrin wrote...

Eckswhyzed wrote...

inakrin wrote...

Gold "stronghold" gear is affecting yout restore shield speed (33% for bronze, 28.6% for silver and 25% for gold). And thats how:

I. 0.03f or 3% (36%, 31.6%, 28%)
II. 0.05
III. 0.07
IV. 0.085 or 8.5%
V. 0.1 or 10% (40% per second for bronze, 38.6% for silver and 35% for gold)

Same is for silver ShieldRegen gear but with increased amount (48% per second for bronze, 43.6% for silver and 40% for gold at rank V)


So it wise for you to use gears if you have a lot of shield power. Other than you'd rather take power cells - to improve your survival chances via faster shieldgate ratio
hope it'll be useful - didn't find answer at OP

HANG ON A SEC.

My own testing seems to indicate that Stronghold gear decreases the delay before you shield recharges. If anyone can reccomend some decent free video editing software I can upload something to youtube.

orly? you can detect differ between 3.5 and 3.37 seconds? Providing your logic V rank of stronghold gear grants you just 0.15 sec delay decreasing...i don't think this it's worth it...

I Hope this vid will help you find the truth :

[Magicman10893]

Cyonan wrote...

Magicman10893 wrote...

RecoonHoodie wrote...

What exactly the force in powers do? Makes them fly further? Adds damage in some way? Explain please.

Based on what I've seen while playing, force basically governs how far enemies fly when hit. Human Adept melee does little damage, but a high amount of force causes enemies to fly across the room the same way that Krogan Heavy Melee does. Enemeis can also take additional damage from hitting the environment (floors, walls, ceilings, etc.) so I imagine force increases this environmental damage. That is all purely based on what I've experienced and as I do not have any way to clarify for certain, that is the best I can do for now.

Force decides how far a target flies when it gets the ragdoll effect, as well as how easily enemies are staggered. Heavier enemies like the Brute or Atlas require more force to stagger. It also adds a bit of damage. Also as you've noted, while ragdolling hitting solid objects causes more damage, and the damage algorithms on this are really wierd. I've seen targets slam into a wall and only take like 2 bars and other targets glance off the wall and die from it.

Also worth noting, force does not cause the ragdoll effect. In an attempt to see if I could make Tech Armour have a knockdown effect instead of a stagger, I cranked the force of the detonation upto 10000 and took it into SP. Enemies were still just being staggered.

I suspect they have a separate file somewhere that states which effects are able to cause the ragdoll effect.

I suspected that force increases stagger chance but I haven't really been able to test it for myself.

[GodlessPaladin]

dimitrie wrote...

inakrin wrote...

Eckswhyzed wrote...

inakrin wrote...

Gold "stronghold" gear is affecting yout restore shield speed (33% for bronze, 28.6% for silver and 25% for gold). And thats how:

I. 0.03f or 3% (36%, 31.6%, 28%)
II. 0.05
III. 0.07
IV. 0.085 or 8.5%
V. 0.1 or 10% (40% per second for bronze, 38.6% for silver and 35% for gold)

Same is for silver ShieldRegen gear but with increased amount (48% per second for bronze, 43.6% for silver and 40% for gold at rank V)


So it wise for you to use gears if you have a lot of shield power. Other than you'd rather take power cells - to improve your survival chances via faster shieldgate ratio
hope it'll be useful - didn't find answer at OP

HANG ON A SEC.

My own testing seems to indicate that Stronghold gear decreases the delay before you shield recharges. If anyone can reccomend some decent free video editing software I can upload something to youtube.

orly? you can detect differ between 3.5 and 3.37 seconds? Providing your logic V rank of stronghold gear grants you just 0.15 sec delay decreasing...i don't think this it's worth it...

I Hope this vid will help you find the truth :

Your values for test 5 and 6 are odd... since Shield Power Cells give 30% and Multicapacitor gives 15%, but you seem to be getting the same recharge delay increase by improving them...?

However, test 7 suggests that the formula is an additive multiplier, since 3.8 * (1-(.3+.25+.15)) = 1.14, which is nearly exactly your result.   Test 2, 3, and 6 also suggest this.  I'm just not sure what's up with your values for test 5...

Going down the list, assuming the hypothesized formula...
Test 1:  Establishes base 3.8
Test 2:  Expected Delay (3.8 * (1 - .3)) = 2.66s), Recorded Delay = 2.72s.  That's pretty consistent for an inexact measurement.
Test 3:  Expected Delay (3.8 * (1- .15)) = 3.23s), Recorded Delay = 3.24s.  Again reasonably consistent with the hypothesis.
Test 4:  Expected Delay (3.8 * (1- .25)) = 2.85s), Recorded Delay = 2.92s.  Again reasonably consistent with the hypothesis.
Test 5:  Expected Delay (3.8 * (1- .25-.3)) = 1.71s), Recorded Delay = 2.32s.  That doesn't seem right... especially since it's the SAME as test 6, which has a smaller bonus.  What's up with this test?
Test 6:  Expected Delay (3.8 * (1- .25-.15)) = 2.28s), Recorded Delay = 2.32s.  Again reasonably consistent with the hypothesis.
Test 7:  Expected Delay (3.8 * (1- .25-.3-.15)) = 1.14s), Recorded Delay = 1.12s.  Again reasonably consistent with the hypothesis.

Your tests seem to discount the notion that the actual speed at which the shield bar recharges, rather than the delay before they recharge, is affected by these abilities, however.

Modifié par GodlessPaladin, 07 juillet 2012 - 11:10 .

[WARMACHINE9]

Wthout sarcasm:Thank you Godless Paladin for another insightful post. I swear I learn something new and useful everytime you post.(really no sarcasm intended. Your posts are great and informed,Guess in thats why Fagnan actually listens when you speak.)

[Grunt_Platform]

capn233 wrote...

EvanKester wrote...

Thanks, that's really helpful and explains recoil fade, but I'm still curious about the details of aim error—IE, the bullet's tendency to stray from where the crosshairs are pointed.

I'm not quite sure how min and max aim errors, factor, nor the aim penalties and interp speeds.  I can make an educated guesses, but some of it seems a touch strange. Most of all, I'm unsure what's going on with the growing and shrinking crosshairs. The Saber, again, has fairly normal values in both, but its crosshairs take longer than normal to shrink after firing.

I haven't seen anything clarifying the real mechanics behind aim error.  I had been messing around with the Viper and didn't really make any progress.  I think part of the issue for me was that there is some base SR scoped accuracy that is hard coded and not amenable to easy change.  Essentially whatever I did might make the scope bounc around more, but miraculously the shots nearly always went to the original point of aim.  I could make the unscoped shots have more recoil, but that wasn't what I was trying to do and I did not mess with that too much.

The other thing is that without really knowing what the scales mean, it is hard for me to get a good idea of what should do what without simply going through a bunch of iterations of changes, which I got tired of doing.

Err. The Viper's a really bad test case. If you look at Tangster's sheet it has no zoom aim error, like most sniper rifles. Not even "0". Sniper rifles when scoped just don't go off target, except from recoil. Their crosshairs might be misaligned, but their bullets are 100% reliable. Guns with normal aim mechanics would be the best testing subjects. Full-autos like the Avenger and Phaeston, or semi-autos like Mattock, Saber and Phalanx.

When/if I can get a better HDD on my PC, I'll try recording some test videos using the firing range. 

[dimitrie]

GodlessPaladin wrote...

You're values for test 5 and 6 are odd... since Advanced Hardware gives 25% and Multicapacitor gives 15%, but you seem to be getting the same recharge delay increase by improving them...?

However, test 7 suggests that the formula is an additive multiplier, since 3.8 * (1-(.3+.25+.15)) = 1.14, which is nearly exactly your result.   Test 2, 3, and 6 also suggest this.  I'm just not sure what's up with your values for test 5...

Honestly, i will redo all of them, but a 60FPS this time. And with a clear methodology.
I can't find the logic behind these values.

Edit :
I should mention it earlier, but the video was recorded at 25 fps.
Which means there is a margin of error of ~0.08sec ( 1sec / 25 * 2 )

Modifié par dimitrie, 08 juillet 2012 - 12:37 .

[GodlessPaladin]

dimitrie wrote...
Edit :
I should mention it earlier, but the video was recorded at 25 fps.
Which means there is a margin of error of ~0.08sec ( 1sec / 25 * 2 )

Yup, that's why I said all of the values (except test 5) were within the expected range (within 0.08 seconds of my hypothesized formula's prediction)

Modifié par GodlessPaladin, 08 juillet 2012 - 12:42 .

[dimitrie]

Ok I got it.
This is an error on my part when I edited the video.
The correct value for the test 5 is 01:76 which can be see at 3:49:09





Not enough sleep I think

[GodlessPaladin]

dimitrie wrote...

Ok I got it.
This is an error on my part when I edited the video.
The correct value for the test 5 is 01:76 which can be see at 3:49:09





Not enough sleep I think

Could you do tests with Barrier / Fortification / Blade Armor Evolution 3, Fitness Evolution 5, Multicapacitor V, Shield Power Cells III, and a fully defensive specced Biotic Sphere?  I'm curious to see if that allows you to regenerate continuously.

Modifié par GodlessPaladin, 08 juillet 2012 - 01:29 .

[Eckswhyzed]

GodlessPaladin wrote...

dimitrie wrote...

Ok I got it.
This is an error on my part when I edited the video.
The correct value for the test 5 is 01:76 which can be see at 3:49:09





Not enough sleep I think

Could you do tests with Barrier / Fortification / Blade Armor Evolution 3, Fitness Evolution 5, Multicapacitor V, Shield Power Cells III, and a fully defensive specced Biotic Sphere?  I'm curious to see if that allows you to regenerate continuously.

PLEASE DO TESTS WITH THE STRONGHOLD GEAR!

I am getting very strange results.

Modifié par Eckswhyzed, 08 juillet 2012 - 02:58 .

[GodlessPaladin]

Strange how?

[Eckswhyzed]

GodlessPaladin wrote...

Strange how?

3.08s recharge in silver from the impact of a Rocket Trooper rocket hit on a GI, HM on, with Fitness rank 1 shield recharge + stronghold gear 5.

I think there might be errors in my recording or playback.

[GodlessPaladin]

Eckswhyzed wrote...

GodlessPaladin wrote...

Strange how?

3.08s recharge in silver from the impact of a Rocket Trooper rocket hit on a GI, HM on, with Fitness rank 1 shield recharge + stronghold gear 5.

I think there might be errors in my recording or playback.

Why is that strange?  That result is consistent with what my formula predicts (3.04sec)

[ka243]

A question about warp stacking: Does the expose evolution of warp stack if you warp an enemy twice (like it does with proxy mine)? What about the DOT?
Is the warp expose effect cancelled by a biotic explosion or does the warp expose effect continue until the "timer" on the warp runs out??
If warp is used to set up a biotic explosion and the expose evolution is taken, does this expose effect increase the damage of the biotic explosion (it should)?

On ammo powers: any idea how ammo power damage works with additive and multiplicative damage bonuses?  We know ammo damage is applied before weapon damage.
I can imagine 2 ways it might work:
* Ammo damage is calculated as a %of base weapon damage and is applied before each shot.  Example if my ammo power adds 30% damage and my weapon has a base damage of 100, the ammo power does 30 damage (probable??).
* Ammo damage is calculated based on total weapon damage: First total weapon damage is calculated, example I have base damage of 100 and +100%  weapon damage from bonuses making my weapon damage 200.  If my ammo bonus is 30%, then my ammo damage applied before my weapon damage would be 60.   I'm not sure which of these formulas is correct but I think its probably one of them, more likely the first one (?)

Finally, could you please add single player abilities to the list and/or make a separate topic for this? I know this is the multiplayer forum but I'm sure this information could be helpful to people.

I think squadmate powers that increase a certain type of weapon damage are PROBABLY multiplicative. So, Ashley Williams +60% damage to assult rifle bonus is probably a very good ability if you take all weapon damage with her.

Modifié par ka243, 08 juillet 2012 - 08:00 .

[Eckswhyzed]

GodlessPaladin wrote...

Eckswhyzed wrote...

GodlessPaladin wrote...

Strange how?

3.08s recharge in silver from the impact of a Rocket Trooper rocket hit on a GI, HM on, with Fitness rank 1 shield recharge + stronghold gear 5.

I think there might be errors in my recording or playback.

Why is that strange?  That result is consistent with what my formula predicts (3.04sec)

Isn't it 4 seconds * (1 - 0.1 - 0.1) = 3.2 seconds?

At least we seem to have confirmation that Stronghold does reduce the delay before your shields recharge.

[GodlessPaladin]

Eckswhyzed wrote...

GodlessPaladin wrote...

Eckswhyzed wrote...

GodlessPaladin wrote...

Strange how?

3.08s recharge in silver from the impact of a Rocket Trooper rocket hit on a GI, HM on, with Fitness rank 1 shield recharge + stronghold gear 5.

I think there might be errors in my recording or playback.

Why is that strange?  That result is consistent with what my formula predicts (3.04sec)

Isn't it 4 seconds * (1 - 0.1 - 0.1) = 3.2 seconds?

At least we seem to have confirmation that Stronghold does reduce the delay before your shields recharge.

Coalesced says 4 seconds,  but if you're timing it from the same moment dimitrie was, it's apparently 3.8 seconds base.

Modifié par GodlessPaladin, 08 juillet 2012 - 08:17 .

[Eckswhyzed]

GodlessPaladin wrote...

Eckswhyzed wrote...

GodlessPaladin wrote...

Eckswhyzed wrote...

GodlessPaladin wrote...

Strange how?

3.08s recharge in silver from the impact of a Rocket Trooper rocket hit on a GI, HM on, with Fitness rank 1 shield recharge + stronghold gear 5.

I think there might be errors in my recording or playback.

Why is that strange?  That result is consistent with what my formula predicts (3.04sec)

Isn't it 4 seconds * (1 - 0.1 - 0.1) = 3.2 seconds?

At least we seem to have confirmation that Stronghold does reduce the delay before your shields recharge.

Coalesced says 4 seconds,  but if you're timing it from the same moment dimitrie was, it's apparently 3.8 seconds base.

I started from the rocket impact (i.e. the start of the shield bar decreasing), like dimitrie. I wonder where that 0.2s disappears to?

[archangelV]

ka243 wrote...

A question about warp stacking: Does the expose evolution of warp stack if you warp an enemy twice (like it does with proxy mine)? What about the DOT?
Is the warp expose effect cancelled by a biotic explosion or does the warp expose effect continue until the "timer" on the warp runs out??
If warp is used to set up a biotic explosion and the expose evolution is taken, does this expose effect increase the damage of the biotic explosion (it should)?

On ammo powers: any idea how ammo power damage works with additive and multiplicative damage bonuses?  We know ammo damage is applied before weapon damage.
I can imagine 2 ways it might work:
* Ammo damage is calculated as a %of base weapon damage and is applied before each shot.  Example if my ammo power adds 30% damage and my weapon has a base damage of 100, the ammo power does 30 damage (probable??).
* Ammo damage is calculated based on total weapon damage: First total weapon damage is calculated, example I have base damage of 100 and +100%  weapon damage from bonuses making my weapon damage 200.  If my ammo bonus is 30%, then my ammo damage applied before my weapon damage would be 60.   I'm not sure which of these formulas is correct but I think its probably one of them, more likely the first one (?)

Finally, could you please add single player abilities to the list and/or make a separate topic for this? I know this is the multiplayer forum but I'm sure this information could be helpful to people.

I think squadmate powers that increase a certain type of weapon damage are PROBABLY multiplicative. So, Ashley Williams +60% damage to assult rifle bonus is probably a very good ability if you take all weapon damage with her.

Ammo damage is calculated off of the base weapon damage, no bonus damage, no passives, no multipliers.
Also ammo powers ignore sheild gate. It appear warp ammo doesn't effect sheilds and disruptor ammo may not effect barriers.

Modifié par archangelV, 08 juillet 2012 - 12:00 .

[GodlessPaladin]

archangelV wrote...
Ammo damage is calculated off of the base weapon damage, no bonus damage, no passives, no multipliers.

I need evidence if I am to add something to the first post, not just a claim.

[dimitrie]

Eckswhyzed wrote...

GodlessPaladin wrote...

Eckswhyzed wrote...

GodlessPaladin wrote...

Eckswhyzed wrote...

GodlessPaladin wrote...

Strange how?

3.08s recharge in silver from the impact of a Rocket Trooper rocket hit on a GI, HM on, with Fitness rank 1 shield recharge + stronghold gear 5.

I think there might be errors in my recording or playback.

Why is that strange?  That result is consistent with what my formula predicts (3.04sec)

Isn't it 4 seconds * (1 - 0.1 - 0.1) = 3.2 seconds?

At least we seem to have confirmation that Stronghold does reduce the delay before your shields recharge.

Coalesced says 4 seconds,  but if you're timing it from the same moment dimitrie was, it's apparently 3.8 seconds base.

I started from the rocket impact (i.e. the start of the shield bar decreasing), like dimitrie. I wonder where that 0.2s disappears to?

Me to
I did a quick test with my batarian soldier ( shield power cells III, multicapacitor V, fitness rank 5 & blade armor rank 5 )
0:96s as expected (3.8 * (1- .30- .15- .15- .15)) = 0.95s)
Need to find a Asari friend now and fast

Edit:
One another thing.
The shield take 3:92s to recharge, like my GI test03 ( 3:96 ).
So..., is there two shield regen rate ?

Modifié par dimitrie, 08 juillet 2012 - 01:23 .

[Eckswhyzed]

dimitrie wrote...

Me to
I did a quick test with my batarian soldier ( shield power cells III, multicapacitor V, fitness rank 5 & blade armor rank 5 )
0:96s as expected (3.8 * (1- .30- .15- .15- .15)) = 0.95s)
Need to find a Asari friend now and fast

Edit:
One another thing.
The shield take 3:92s to recharge, like my GI test03 ( 3:96 ).
So..., is there two shield regen rate ?

One other thing: Does being in cover affect the shield regen delay or rate? All my test were done standing out in the open, with no cover.

[peddroelm]

GodlessPaladin wrote...

archangelV wrote...
Ammo damage is calculated off of the base weapon damage, no bonus damage, no passives, no multipliers.

I need evidence if I am to add something to the first post, not just a claim.

There we go again 

He is mostly correct - On SP ammo power damage is calculated of base weapon damage and applied before actual weapon damage (except incendiary which is applied after as DOT ) and very few things are known to affect base weapon damage ...  

- weapon upgrade lvl from I to X - more base weapon damage - more ammo power damage
- sniper 25% weapon damage rank 6 evolution is applied to base weapon damage - ammo power damage is calculated of this enhanced value
- geth bonus to geth weapons is also applied to base weapon damage - should also cause a slight increase in ammo power damage 
- On SP power damage bonuses from skills apply to ammo power damage - power damage bonus from armor (sets/pieces) do NOT apply to ammo power damage
- Graal charged state causes ammo power damage to also do double damage (is it applied to base weapon damage before damage calculations ?)  (unlike other charged weapons such as GPS & Kishok)
- and finnaly - targets affected by proximity mine debuff  take extra 20% damage from all damage sources  - ammo power damage will do 20% more damage vs those targets ...

Modifié par peddroelmz, 08 juillet 2012 - 02:27 .

[peddroelm]

ka243 wrote...
...
I think squadmate powers that increase a certain type of weapon damage are PROBABLY multiplicative. So, Ashley Williams +60% damage to assult rifle bonus is probably a very good ability if you take all weapon damage with her...

Did test Garrus not Ashley - the bonuses for sniper rifles and assault rifles are indeed multiplicative... But so is the crippling 0.3 squadmate suckify modifier ... But yes - with weapon builds Garrus & Ashley can outdamage non combat Sheppards (infiltrator/soldier) when ordered to attack specific targets (200% damage bonus) ... 

http://social.biowar...ndex/11351372/1 

Modifié par peddroelmz, 08 juillet 2012 - 02:28 .

[Spiffspoo]

archangelV wrote...

Ammo damage is calculated off of the base weapon damage, no bonus damage, no passives, no multipliers.
Also ammo powers ignore sheild gate. It appear warp ammo doesn't effect sheilds and disruptor ammo may not effect barriers.

http://masseffect.wi...r_Customization 

This says Warp Ammo doesn't affect shields and Disruptor Ammo affects shields and barriers.

It needs updating too with the new level 4 equipment, and some other random junk.
So some one might want to jump in here since they are probably more credible than other sources.