345 réponses à ce sujet

[nicola_nibhroin]

EvilDeity wrote...

Getting shields from a Geth Turret doesn't actually break Cloak, but it does sometimes cause a visual bug that makes it look like it does.

Well when it was happening to me last night it caused enemies who had been ignoring me to start shooting at me- with the Duration evolution, not cloaking in front of them, and having run a considerable distance from my original position but still within the duration of cloak.

[Relix28]

EvilDeity wrote...

Relix28 wrote...

One thing I should point out, is that Stabilization module III adds more than 30% stability bonus.


I noticed this on my Turian Soldier, pre-patch, when Turians still had issues with "reverse recoil".

I had him speced for max stability (55%) from the passive. And when I equiped a Stabilization module III, my Hurricane was kicking downards, wich means that that the stability bonus went over 100%. So the logical conclusion to that is, that the Stabilization module gives you a 50% stability bonus or more.

Were you in cover? Being in cover adds stability.

No. I wasn't in cover. I remember shooting my Hurricane as soon as the match started. Also, if you test this thing post-pactch (reverse recoil bug was fixed in the last patch), your Turian will have zero recoil with all guns, wich still proves that Stabilization module gives you more than 30% stability bonus.

I hope one of the devs can provide us with some more data on MP consumables. I would really like to know about the properties on ammo consumables and also how it relates the the potency of power combos (i.e. lvl. 3 disruptor ammo causing stronger tech bursts than lvl. 1 disruptor ammo?).

Modifié par Relix28, 29 juin 2012 - 03:51 .

[EvilDeity]

Relix28 wrote...

EvilDeity wrote...

Relix28 wrote...

One thing I should point out, is that Stabilization module III adds more than 30% stability bonus.


I noticed this on my Turian Soldier, pre-patch, when Turians still had issues with "reverse recoil".

I had him speced for max stability (55%) from the passive. And when I equiped a Stabilization module III, my Hurricane was kicking downards, wich means that that the stability bonus went over 100%. So the logical conclusion to that is, that the Stabilization module gives you a 50% stability bonus or more.

Were you in cover? Being in cover adds stability.

No. I wasn't in cover. I remember shooting my Hurricane as soon as the match started. Also, if you test this thing post-pactch (reverse recoil bug was fixed in the last patch), your Turian will have zero recoil with all guns, wich still proves that Stabilization module gives you more than 30% stability bonus.

I hope one of the devs can provide us with some more data on MP consumables. I would really like to know about the properties on ammo consumables and also how it relates the the potency of power combos (i.e. lvl. 3 disruptor ammo causing stronger tech bursts than lvl. 1 disruptor ammo?).

Odd. I've used my Turian Sentinel post and pre patch with a Hurricane, max passive stability and a level 3 stability module and it certainly never got/gets reverse recoil like my Vindicator used to if used with an AR stability damper pre-patch.

I also still get recoil when not in cover...

Not even sure why I asked you about cover now, becaause even pre-patch that still never gave me reverse recoil. Must have been something to do with the Turian Solider.

Modifié par EvilDeity, 29 juin 2012 - 04:21 .

[Relix28]

EvilDeity wrote...

Relix28 wrote...

EvilDeity wrote...

Relix28 wrote...

One thing I should point out, is that Stabilization module III adds more than 30% stability bonus.


I noticed this on my Turian Soldier, pre-patch, when Turians still had issues with "reverse recoil".

I had him speced for max stability (55%) from the passive. And when I equiped a Stabilization module III, my Hurricane was kicking downards, wich means that that the stability bonus went over 100%. So the logical conclusion to that is, that the Stabilization module gives you a 50% stability bonus or more.

Were you in cover? Being in cover adds stability.

No. I wasn't in cover. I remember shooting my Hurricane as soon as the match started. Also, if you test this thing post-pactch (reverse recoil bug was fixed in the last patch), your Turian will have zero recoil with all guns, wich still proves that Stabilization module gives you more than 30% stability bonus.

I hope one of the devs can provide us with some more data on MP consumables. I would really like to know about the properties on ammo consumables and also how it relates the the potency of power combos (i.e. lvl. 3 disruptor ammo causing stronger tech bursts than lvl. 1 disruptor ammo?).

Odd. I've used my Turian Sentinel post and pre patch with a Hurricane, max passive stability and a level 3 stability module and it certainly never got/gets reverse recoil like my Vindicator used to if used with an AR stability damper pre-patch.

I also still get recoil when not in cover...

Not even sure why I asked you about cover now, becaause even pre-patch that still never gave me reverse recoil. Must have been something to do with the Turian Solider.

Might have been that you didn't notice it, because the (reverse) recoil was hardly noticable in that situation. But it was there, I'm pretty certain of it.

Modifié par Relix28, 29 juin 2012 - 04:31 .

[Poison_Berrie]

I would think that the Kishock's headshot damage is only on the 80% direct damage, because DoT effects don't seem to be area specific.
In fact someone once had a post detailing it, will try to see if I can find it.

[Mozts]

I'm trying to find data about deployables. How many enemies can attack decoy at the same time? Is there time limit? Is it immune to what type of attacks?

Someone know where I can find this? It would be a contribution to the topic and Paladin as well I believe.

[xabkish]

BjornDaDwarf wrote...

@GodlessPaladin

Thought of something else that should be added, as it creates a lot of confusion.

The SMG Heatsink Mod V, on average, gives you an 81.8 percent larger clips and an 81.8 percent larger total ammo pool.  This is because it can save the same round multiple times.   This has been confirmed through testing and the math done multiple ways in this thread.  I've seen a lot of people who just thought that it gave you 45 percent more ammo, or that it was a theoretical max of 45 percent, but would usually be lower than that (because they thought it couldn't save the same round multiple times).

Yeah, this is definitely worth noting. It is in fact a game changer for some SMGs with low spare ammo capacity like Hurricane.

Also, I guess a link to this thread would be nice: AP mod vs. EB mod — http://social.biowar...ndex/11500067/1 with a summary that basically any weapon with damage per bullet/pellet over around 200 benefits more from EB damage wise even against armor while some weapons truly benefit from both of these mods.

[NuclearTech76]

Mozts wrote...

I'm trying to find data about deployables. How many enemies can attack decoy at the same time? Is there time limit? Is it immune to what type of attacks?

Someone know where I can find this? It would be a contribution to the topic and Paladin as well I believe.

I think there was something in the balance change thread about decoy only holding four enemies attention now. 

[GodlessPaladin]

xabkish wrote...

BjornDaDwarf wrote...

@GodlessPaladin

Thought of something else that should be added, as it creates a lot of confusion.

The SMG Heatsink Mod V, on average, gives you an 81.8 percent larger clips and an 81.8 percent larger total ammo pool.  This is because it can save the same round multiple times.   This has been confirmed through testing and the math done multiple ways in this thread.  I've seen a lot of people who just thought that it gave you 45 percent more ammo, or that it was a theoretical max of 45 percent, but would usually be lower than that (because they thought it couldn't save the same round multiple times).

Yeah, this is definitely worth noting. It is in fact a game changer for some SMGs with low spare ammo capacity like Hurricane.

This isn't really an issue of misleading or missing information... it's more an issue that lots of people just don't understand basic arithmetic.  I think the heat sink mod is pretty clear on what it does and works exactly like it says it does as far as I know.  If you use up half the ammo, you get double the shots, not 50% more shots.

An illustration:
Say you have an SMG with 100 bullets in its clip.
100 shots fired, 45 remain
45 shots fired, 20.25 remain
20.25 shots fired, 9.1125 remain
9.1125 shots fired, 4.100625 remain
4.100625 shots fired, 1.84528125 remain
1.84528125 shots fired, 0.8303765625 remain
0.8303765625 shots fired, 0.373669453125 remain
et cetera.

This number approaches 181.8181(repeating) shots as the iterations approach infinity.  And of course since this bonus is a separate kind of ammo increase, it multiplies the effectiveness of the clip mod rather than being additive with it.  The formula for your average ammo capacity should be something like (base clip size * magazine mod multiplier) * E(heat sink recycle percentage^n) for n from 0 to infinity.

I mean, I guess I could add it, but the tooltip already tells you that, doesn't it? 

Modifié par GodlessPaladin, 29 juin 2012 - 07:50 .

[Rolenka]

I've read that the bonuses from Fitness are bugged for some characters. Is there any way to know this for certain, or which ones?

[Pitznik]

Rolenka wrote...

I've read that the bonuses from Fitness are bugged for some characters. Is there any way to know this for certain, or which ones?

I think it was about Phoenixes, and it was disproved. Unless you mean Kroguard "Fitness" ie Rage, but in his case just the active part of ability is bugged, as pointed out in the OP.

[Poison_Berrie]

So here's the thread Peddroelmz did about the Kishock. 

Calculation show that he adds the 3 times headshot damage to both damages. So I guess I was wrong.

[BjornDaDwarf]

GodlessPaladin wrote...
it's more an issue that lots of people just don't understand basic arithmetic. 

Ah yes, understanding basic arithmetic, we have dismissed this claim. 

I agree, it is basic math, but I still think it's the kind of description/mechanic that a lot of people glance at, decide they understand it, but still get it wrong.  If you go through that thread I linked to, there are a bunch of people who continue to argue about how it works, even after step-by-step math on it has been posted multiple times. 

Also, my best Elcor impersonation:

::Shameful Acknowledgement:: When playing single player, I did not understand how this mod worked.  It was not until reading the linked to thread that I realized my error.

/elcor

Modifié par BjornDaDwarf, 29 juin 2012 - 07:54 .

[GodlessPaladin]

BjornDaDwarf wrote...

GodlessPaladin wrote...
it's more an issue that lots of people just don't understand basic arithmetic. 

Ah yes, understanding basic arithmetic, we have dismissed this claim. 

I agree, it is basic math, but I still think it's the kind of description/mechanic that a lot of people glance at, decide they understand it, but still get it wrong.  If you go through that thread I linked to, there are a bunch of people who continue to argue about how it works, even after step-by-step math on it has been posted multiple times. 

Well if people are still fighting about it there, I don't really see why basically repeating what the tooltip says here would help much... but I guess I'll add it anyways.

Edit responding to edit: 

BjornDaDwarf wrote...
Also, my best Elcor impersonation:

::Shameful
Acknowledgement:: When playing single player, I did not understand how
this mod worked.  It was not until reading the linked to thread that I
realized my error.

/elcor

Okay you've convinced me.  Added the following:

Heat Sink and Magazine Mods
- The SMG Heat Sink mod works exactly like the tooltip suggests it does, as far as I can tell.  However, some people still seem to be confused about how this works, so I'll lay it out clearly.  If Heat Sink recycle % = R, and your magazine size multiplier is M, then your average number of shots per clip will be (Base*(1+M)) * E(1*R^n) for n from 0 to infinity.  So, for example, if you have a
- Magazine Size Mod V and a Heat Sink Mod V:  You can expect an average of about 3.3x your base magazine capacity.
- Heat Sink Mod V:  You can expect an average of about 1.82x your base magazine capacity.
- Magazine Size Mod V:  You will have 1.8x your base magazine capacity.

Does that help? 

Modifié par GodlessPaladin, 29 juin 2012 - 08:30 .

[BjornDaDwarf]

GodlessPaladin wrote...

Okay you've convinced me.  Added the following:

Heat Sink and Magazine Mods
- The SMG Heat Sink mod works exactly like the tooltip suggests it does, as far as I can tell.  However, some people still seem to be confused about how this works, so I'll lay it out clearly.  If Heat Sink recycle % = R, and your magazine size multiplier is M, then your average number of shots per clip will be (Base*(1+M)) * E(1*R^n) for n from 0 to infinity.  So, for example, if you have a
- Magazine Size Mod V and a Heat Sink Mod V:  You can expect an average of about 3.3x your base magazine capacity.
- Heat Sink Mod V:  You can expect an average of about 1.82x your base magazine capacity.
- Magazine Size Mod V:  You will have 1.8x your base magazine capacity.

Does that help? 

Awesome!  I really do think a clarification will help some people.

There are two common misunderstandings I see people make.  First is simply not realizing that it can recycle the same bullet multiple times (this is the one I made).  I've also seen people insist that the Magazine Capacity mod must always give a larger magazine bonus than the Heatsink mod.  They make a falacious assumption that the Heatsink mod must be balanced by being an inferior clip extender versus the Magazine Capacity.  That both exist lead some people to think you use one if you want a bigger magazine, and you use the other if you want a bigger total pool.  The fact is that for most people, the Heatsink should generally be the one used (as it on average provides an equal bonus as the Magazine Capacity mod).  Unless you want to use both and fire all the bullets forever. 

I don't know that it needs to be that in-depth, just explaining the primary two points of confusion should help, then direct them to the discussion thread on it if they want to know more, as you've done with other mechanics that have a long-running discussion about them.  

SMG Heatsink Mod
- Capable of recycling the same round multiple times in a row, resulting in a average net gain that is significantly larger than the listed percentage. See this thread for math and an in-depth discussion on it.
- Heat Sink Mod V:  Averages a 1.82x increase of both base ammo pool and base magazine capacity (slightly outperforms SMG Magazine Upgrade V's bonus of 1.8x)
- When combined with SMG Magazine Upgrade V:  Averages 3.3x increase of base magazine capacity (ie. the GPSMG will fire an average of 330 shots before needing a reload).

Modifié par BjornDaDwarf, 29 juin 2012 - 09:10 .

[capn233]

Well the Heatsink talk is interesting I suppose....

I would like clarification on the damage reduction during cover penetration from the weapons that innately have that characteristic like Black Widow, Widow, Javelin and Crusader. Posts from devs say they will penetrate the cover but that a flat amount of damage is removed. How much damage is that exacty? How does it compare to the amount that is reduced when you add SR Piercing or AP ammo? How does the math work when stacking penetration mods with regards to damage reduction to the targets behind the cover? If you have three enemies in a row and have enough penetration to hit all three, what is the damage dealt to each one?

[GodlessPaladin]

So some stuff on ammo powers.

Warp and Disruptor Ammo seem to have some limited ability to bypass the shield gate mechanic. Anyone have any specifics? In fact, I'd like a lot more info on ammo powers in general. Application rates according to different weapons, what defenses the various damage bonuses apply to, exactly how armor weakness works, values for the new rank IV equipment, et cetera.

Modifié par GodlessPaladin, 29 juin 2012 - 11:24 .

[xabkish]

GodlessPaladin wrote...

So some stuff on ammo powers.

Warp and Disruptor Ammo seem to have some limited ability to bypass the shield gate mechanic. Anyone have any specifics? In fact, I'd like a lot more info on ammo powers in general. Application rates according to different weapons, what defenses the various damage bonuses apply to, exactly how armor weakness works, values for the new rank IV equipment, et cetera.

I suspect what you call limited ability to bypass SG mechanics is the following: ammo bonus damage is calculated from base weapon damage and is dealt to target separately before the final actual weapon damage. E.g. if your weapon base is 1000 than with Warp ammo III you're dealing damage twice — 350 from Warp ammo and 1000 from your weapon (if there are no modifiers, well, you know what I'm talking about). So if these 35% of base are enough to strip the remaining shields/barriers then you're dealing weapon damage to health/armor.

Sources: http://social.biowar.../index/10639449, http://social.biowar.../index/11443818 (the part about one-shotting Phantoms with Warp ammo) and well, my own experience =)

EDIT: typos.

Modifié par xabkish, 29 juin 2012 - 11:40 .

[Metal Vile]

xabkish wrote...

GodlessPaladin wrote...

So some stuff on ammo powers.

Warp and Disruptor Ammo seem to have some limited ability to bypass the shield gate mechanic. Anyone have any specifics? In fact, I'd like a lot more info on ammo powers in general. Application rates according to different weapons, what defenses the various damage bonuses apply to, exactly how armor weakness works, values for the new rank IV equipment, et cetera.

I suspect what you call limited ability to bypass SG mechanics is the following: ammo bonus damage is calculated from base weapon damage and is dealt to target separately before the final actual weapon damage. E.g. if your weapon base is 1000 than with Warp ammo III you're dealing damage twice — 350 from Warp ammo and 1000 from your weapon (if there are no modifiers, well, you know what I'm talking about). So if these 35% of base are enough to strip the remaining shields/barriers then you're dealing weapon damage to health/armor.

Sources: http://social.biowar.../index/10639449, http://social.biowar.../index/11443818 (the part about one-shotting Phantoms with Warp ammo) and well, my own experience =)

EDIT: typos.

That's pretty damn useful information; it essentially makes Warp Ammo the definite go-to ammo type for Sniper Rifles or mega-pistols like the Paladin.  If you have a power that just barely fails to consistently strip the shields on an enemy, the Warp ammo damage may be enough to let you one-shot the target anyways.

[GodlessPaladin]

Metal Vile wrote...

xabkish wrote...

GodlessPaladin wrote...

So some stuff on ammo powers.

Warp and Disruptor Ammo seem to have some limited ability to bypass the shield gate mechanic. Anyone have any specifics? In fact, I'd like a lot more info on ammo powers in general. Application rates according to different weapons, what defenses the various damage bonuses apply to, exactly how armor weakness works, values for the new rank IV equipment, et cetera.

I suspect what you call limited ability to bypass SG mechanics is the following: ammo bonus damage is calculated from base weapon damage and is dealt to target separately before the final actual weapon damage. E.g. if your weapon base is 1000 than with Warp ammo III you're dealing damage twice — 350 from Warp ammo and 1000 from your weapon (if there are no modifiers, well, you know what I'm talking about). So if these 35% of base are enough to strip the remaining shields/barriers then you're dealing weapon damage to health/armor.

Sources: http://social.biowar.../index/10639449, http://social.biowar.../index/11443818 (the part about one-shotting Phantoms with Warp ammo) and well, my own experience =)

EDIT: typos.

That's pretty damn useful information; it essentially makes Warp Ammo the definite go-to ammo type for Sniper Rifles or mega-pistols like the Paladin.  If you have a power that just barely fails to consistently strip the shields on an enemy, the Warp ammo damage may be enough to let you one-shot the target anyways.

Correct, I use it to two-shot Gold Phantoms with my Saber 6 without any weapon damage bonuses on my build.  The first shot doesn't take away all of their barriers, but the second shot finishes them off anyways.

Modifié par GodlessPaladin, 30 juin 2012 - 01:08 .

[xabkish]

Metal Vile wrote...

xabkish wrote...

GodlessPaladin wrote...

So some stuff on ammo powers.

Warp and Disruptor Ammo seem to have some limited ability to bypass the shield gate mechanic. Anyone have any specifics? In fact, I'd like a lot more info on ammo powers in general. Application rates according to different weapons, what defenses the various damage bonuses apply to, exactly how armor weakness works, values for the new rank IV equipment, et cetera.

I suspect what you call limited ability to bypass SG mechanics is the following: ammo bonus damage is calculated from base weapon damage and is dealt to target separately before the final actual weapon damage. E.g. if your weapon base is 1000 than with Warp ammo III you're dealing damage twice — 350 from Warp ammo and 1000 from your weapon (if there are no modifiers, well, you know what I'm talking about). So if these 35% of base are enough to strip the remaining shields/barriers then you're dealing weapon damage to health/armor.

Sources: http://social.biowar.../index/10639449, http://social.biowar.../index/11443818 (the part about one-shotting Phantoms with Warp ammo) and well, my own experience =)

EDIT: typos.

That's pretty damn useful information; it essentially makes Warp Ammo the definite go-to ammo type for Sniper Rifles or mega-pistols like the Paladin.  If you have a power that just barely fails to consistently strip the shields on an enemy, the Warp ammo damage may be enough to let you one-shot the target anyways.

Exactly. That's how you can «one shot» Phantoms with ED + heavy weapon shot + ammo consumables. It also helps sometimes when you're not expecting it — like shooting random mob with the last bar of shields and bam, he's dead

As far as I know it's correct for any Ammo except for Incendiary — its bonus damage is applied as DoT after the weapon damage (and it's quite logical of course). On practice it's definitely true for Warp and Disruptor. I've never really tested it with AP rounds. And well, Cryo has no damage bonus at all.

[GodlessPaladin]

And that's why I have 100 Cryo Ammo consumables lying around in my inventory... 

Modifié par GodlessPaladin, 30 juin 2012 - 01:21 .

[Grunt_Platform]

What is the rate that weapons recover accuracy at? It's not quite instant, and the Saber clearly recovers accuracy slower than most.


In fact, the way the accuracy of shots is determined seems to be a little strange in a few cases. Looking at Tangster's weapon sheet, for example, the aim error for most shotguns appears to be 0, yet the highly accurate Graal has pistol-like aim errors. I'm assuming Shotguns have special coding for spread?

Modifié par EvanKester, 30 juin 2012 - 06:54 .

[inakrin]

 Well I perform some test with biotic combo...so you can find results here. It's pure combo damage only, no additionak damage from native powers, boosters etc...

[Metal Vile]

EvanKester wrote...

What is the rate that weapons recover accuracy at? It's not quite instant, and the Saber clearly recovers accuracy slower than most.


In fact, the way the accuracy of shots is determined seems to be a little strange in a few cases. Looking at Tangster's weapon sheet, for example, the aim error for most shotguns appears to be 0, yet the highly accurate Graal has pistol-like aim errors. I'm assuming Shotguns have special coding for spread?

Agreed, this seems to be an extremely strange stat.  The question breaks down to what is the actual meaning for stats such as "Recoil" (seems obvious but probably isn't) and "Recoil Fade Speed".

There seems to be no consistency amongst how these stats function on weapons; or the pattern/mechanic is complex and the values interact in such a way that I don't understand.

The Mattock has Recoil of 3, and Recoil Fade Speed of 3.  Perhaps this is why the recoil fades so quickly?  But look at the Predator, Recoil 4 with Recoil Fade Speed of only 1.5.  Spamming the trigger as fast a possible; does this create noticeable upwards pull with a Predator over time?

Also, I have noticed that only categories that have both Semi-automatic AND Automatic weapons have a "Recoil Fade Speed" stat.  This means Assault Rifles, Pistols, and Sniper Rifles.  Shotguns, which are all Semi-auto, and SMGs, which are all Automatic, are BOTH missing this stat from their plots.  

I have also noticed that, in cases where the stat is present for Assault Rifles, it is listed a "0" or "N/A" for the Automatic and Burst-Fire weapons while Semi-Auto weapons have an actual value written.  However, the Saber is a curious exception; it is a Semi-Auto rifle, but has "N/A" listed for Recoil Fade Speed.  The other 2 Semi-Auto weapons of the category, Falcon and Mattock, both have non-zero values for this stat.

Pistols are are even stranger; ONLY the Predator is listed as having a Recoil Fade Speed, while technically EVERY Pistol aside from the Eagle is Semi-Auto.

For Snipers, One-Shot rifles seem to be grouped similarly to Automatics and Burst Fire; their Recoil Fade Speed is listed as 0 or N/A.  Perhaps because the Recoil is mostly irrelevant because you have to reload between shots?  But the Krysae and Valiant, both of which are multi-shot and Semi-Auto, have 0 or N/A for this stat, while the Raptor DOES HAVE a Recoil Fade Speed.

So, what the hell does this stat actually mean?

Modifié par Metal Vile, 30 juin 2012 - 07:31 .