345 réponses à ce sujet

[capn233]

EvanKester wrote...

Thanks, that's really helpful and explains recoil fade, but I'm still curious about the details of aim error—IE, the bullet's tendency to stray from where the crosshairs are pointed.

I'm not quite sure how min and max aim errors, factor, nor the aim penalties and interp speeds.  I can make an educated guesses, but some of it seems a touch strange. Most of all, I'm unsure what's going on with the growing and shrinking crosshairs. The Saber, again, has fairly normal values in both, but its crosshairs take longer than normal to shrink after firing.

I haven't seen anything clarifying the real mechanics behind aim error.  I had been messing around with the Viper and didn't really make any progress.  I think part of the issue for me was that there is some base SR scoped accuracy that is hard coded and not amenable to easy change.  Essentially whatever I did might make the scope bounc around more, but miraculously the shots nearly always went to the original point of aim.  I could make the unscoped shots have more recoil, but that wasn't what I was trying to do and I did not mess with that too much.

The other thing is that without really knowing what the scales mean, it is hard for me to get a good idea of what should do what without simply going through a bunch of iterations of changes, which I got tired of doing.

Would also like clarification of damage loss after cover penetration for the weapons with native cover.  Supposedly a flat value subtracted per dev posts.  What is it?  How does the stacking actually interact with respect to Piercing mods?  I see a lot of odd posts saying conflicting things, but the only thing I trust was the dev post that said "a flat amount of damage is subtracted" when a Widow, Black Widow, or Javelin shoots through cover, and that the distances stact with Piercing mods and AP ammo.  Not all that much in the way of an explanation in how the cover damage loss gets calculated.

Modifié par capn233, 03 juillet 2012 - 11:21 .

[TheProfessor52]

bump

[Joe Neutrino]

bookmarked for all time

[Spiffspoo]

I got a response from Eric Fagnan about Inferno Grenades and the Shrapnel evolution:
The shrapnel upgrade increases the number of projectiles that are spawned from the impact point. So this will give it a better chance of hitting nearby enemies.

I have never seen any shrapnel from that grenade in ME3, I have seen a second explosion at the exact spot the grenade landed at though, but I have not seen a third while taking the evolution. I messaged him again about it but I only got the 1 response.

ME2 Inferno Grenade Shrapnel is what should be happening, but so far in ME3 it is not. I try to stick with Extra Armor damage for now.

Note, I am on PC.

[Mozts]

Spiffspoo wrote...

I got a response from Eric Fagnan about Inferno Grenades and the Shrapnel evolution:
The shrapnel upgrade increases the number of projectiles that are spawned from the impact point. So this will give it a better chance of hitting nearby enemies.

I have never seen any shrapnel from that grenade in ME3, I have seen a second explosion at the exact spot the grenade landed at though, but I have not seen a third while taking the evolution. I messaged him again about it but I only got the 1 response.

ME2 Inferno Grenade Shrapnel is what should be happening, but so far in ME3 it is not. I try to stick with Extra Armor damage for now.

Note, I am on PC.

Maybe the shrapnel is not renderized? In ME2 there was eight shotgun pellets, but only four were renderized.

[GodlessPaladin]

UPDATE:  Added an entire section and a spreadsheet on Power Recharge Speed mechanics

Modifié par GodlessPaladin, 04 juillet 2012 - 08:58 .

[Steppdaddy2]

Does bonus headshot damage from skills such as marksman apply to primes, banshees, and atlases?

[inakrin]

GodlessPaladin wrote...

inakrin wrote...

GodlessPaladin, fix your info about the shields. I think that people here are not playing bronze much..
bronze: 33% per second, 3.5 from destroyed, 2.5 from partial destroyed
silver: 28.6% per second, 4.0 f/d, 3.0 f/p-d
gold: 25% per second, 4.0 seconds delay before regen after full destroy, 3.0 second delay before regen after partial destroy

Thanks, but can I get a source here? 

It's much, much more helpful if people actually show me the evidence. 

You want evidence? This info has been taken directly from biodifficulty.json file. Is that evidence enough?

[Shika]

The thread on my signature might help a bit

[GodlessPaladin]

inakrin wrote...

GodlessPaladin wrote...

inakrin wrote...

GodlessPaladin, fix your info about the shields. I think that people here are not playing bronze much..
bronze: 33% per second, 3.5 from destroyed, 2.5 from partial destroyed
silver: 28.6% per second, 4.0 f/d, 3.0 f/p-d
gold: 25% per second, 4.0 seconds delay before regen after full destroy, 3.0 second delay before regen after partial destroy

Thanks, but can I get a source here? 

It's much, much more helpful if people actually show me the evidence. 

You want evidence? This info has been taken directly from biodifficulty.json file. Is that evidence enough?

It is!  I've found the ini entry you referred to.  I will add this to the OP.  Thanks

[Clayless]

Thanks, this is so helpful I'm bookmarking this thread.

[I_pity_the_fool]

GodlessPaladin wrote...

BjornDaDwarf wrote...

Great job man, nice to see this all gathered together in an easy to find location.

One thing I'm curious about:

GodlessPaladin says...

Tactical Cloak
- Tactical Cloak's damage bonus applies to a 1.5 second window, not just to the first shot after the cloak ends.

Previous commentary from GrimyBunyip on this pointed to a total 2.5 second window, that cloak takes 1 second for the effect to drop, and then the damage window lasts 1.5 seconds after that.  You can see his comment on it here.  Unless someone has proven otherwise and I missed it, that's the number I've been quoting for awhile now. 

Whoops, typo.  Fixing.

BeardyMcGoo wrote...

GodlessPaladin wrote...

POWER CLARIFICATIONS:

Lift Grenade:
- Can only actually lift one target, making it rather bad at actually, well, lifting things. 

This is also true for the 6th evo of Shockwave, even though it says "Suspend targets in the air for a short time."

Good catch, will add.

I've read - but haven't checked - that the same applies to barrier detonations.

excellent thread btw.

[peddroelm]

A few things I personally disagree with in the first post ...


-You can't just split damage bonuses into additive and multiplicative - some of the multiplicative bonuses add with each other ...

Weapon Damage formula is not quite in this form (like your op seems to suggest):
base *(additive1+additive2+ ...+additiveN)*multiplicative1*multilicative2*...multiplicativeM

It is more like this

base*(A1+..)*(B1+...)*(C1+..)*...


Tactical cloak 6 - sniper 6 evo is applied to base damage.. Geth weapon bonus is applied to base weapon damage.. When both are present (GI with javelin) they ADD toghether and then are applied to base weapon damage

Targeting VI consumable is added to the default 2.5 headshot multiplier ...

The debuffs (proxi mine, warp expose, cryo blast ) -> might actually be global multipliers (not add toghether - did not do enough tests - warp is a **** to test because of the dot component)



- "Biotic Charge: According to Coalesced it actually grants 50% damage reduction for 4 seconds after a charge" - this is for the SP_Charge ability (charge used in SP) .. We don't have much on MP_charge (as it is not in coalesced.ini) - but it probably doesn't have the damage reduction ..


-Chaged shot mechanics are not the same for all weapons ...

GPS & Kishok have continous charge mods ... Graal has Charged and uncharged state (no inbetween) ...GPS charged mod stats from 0.45 and goes up to 1 at full charge (not 2)..

Graal at full chage with 6 spikes 6*2 base damage inflicted (no other bonuses involved)
GPS at full charge with 3 balls 1+0.3+0.3=1.6 base damage inflicted (only middle ball does 100% damage - the other two do 30% damage) (no other bonuses involved)

more info about graal/gps mechanics here http://social.biowar...9449/3#11124587

(graal charge modifier also applies to ammo power damage (doubles it) - it (
charge modifier ) is irrelevant for ammo power damage done by GPS//Kishok ...GPS in particular seems to only apply ammmo power damage with the middle ball)
GPS and Kishok literally ignore shield gate .. last 1 point of shields//barriers will only stop 1 point of damage...


- about the headshot modifiers ..

the 20% from passives & marksman add with the sum of damage bonuses
targeting VI however adds to the 250% hs modifier

Modifié par peddroelmz, 04 juillet 2012 - 03:22 .

[Badpanzer]

Very very useful and informative thread

[Mash-X-ToDieSlower]

Wow. Thanks OP!

[xabkish]

By the way, what about Shockwave bug? Do we have enough confirmation that it's caused by Radius evo or there's something else to it? Anyone?

[Mozts]

xabkish wrote...

By the way, what about Shockwave bug? Do we have enough confirmation that it's caused by Radius evo or there's something else to it? Anyone?

I've been using Shockwave without Rank 4 Radius and its working as intended. (PC)

Modifié par Mozts, 04 juillet 2012 - 03:06 .

[Cyonan]

peddroelmz wrote...
- "Biotic Charge: According to Coalesced it actually grants 50% damage reduction for 4 seconds after a charge" - this is for the SP_Charge ability (charge used in SP) .. We don't have much on MP_charge (as it is not in coalesced.ini) - but it probably doesn't have the damage reduction ..

It does get the damage reduction in multiplayer.

Variables in the MP section merely override anything that's in the SP section. Other than that is just takes exactly what is in the SP section for powers.

[Spiffspoo]

Mozts wrote...

Spiffspoo wrote...

I got a response from Eric Fagnan about Inferno Grenades and the Shrapnel evolution:
The shrapnel upgrade increases the number of projectiles that are spawned from the impact point. So this will give it a better chance of hitting nearby enemies.

I have never seen any shrapnel from that grenade in ME3, I have seen a second explosion at the exact spot the grenade landed at though, but I have not seen a third while taking the evolution. I messaged him again about it but I only got the 1 response.

ME2 Inferno Grenade Shrapnel is what should be happening, but so far in ME3 it is not. I try to stick with Extra Armor damage for now.

Note, I am on PC.

Maybe the shrapnel is not renderized? In ME2 there was eight shotgun pellets, but only four were renderized.

Maybe, but why wouldn't it be?  In ME2 you could see all the shrapnel, you knew where they landed, and they did extra damage.

Now the shrapnel is just invisible, seems like all the shrapnel only explodes at the center where the grenade landed, and doesn't look like it even spreads the dot.

[GodlessPaladin]

peddroelmz wrote...Graal has Charged and uncharged state (no inbetween)

  You sure about that?  I recall getting damage bonuses for charging my Graal while charging it for less than a full 2 seconds (allowing one shot kills on Phantoms that were not possible with instant shots).

Also, are you saying that the GPS will do 72% damage on an uncharged shot and 160% damage on a charged shot, assuming all of the projectiles hit?

As for the link, how are you getting such precise damage dealt numbers for your tests?

Cyonan wrote...
Variables in the MP section merely override
anything that's in the SP section. Other than that is just takes exactly
what is in the SP section for powers.

^
Same goes for other "variants on a template," such as the difference between Drell Reave and Asari Reave, or Biotic Charge and Krogan Vanguard Charge, or racial SECs.

Modifié par GodlessPaladin, 04 juillet 2012 - 08:29 .

[peddroelm]

GodlessPaladin wrote...

peddroelmz wrote...Graal has Charged and uncharged state (no inbetween)

  You sure about that?  I recall getting damage bonuses for charging my Graal while charging it for less than a full 2 seconds (allowing one shot kills on Phantoms that were not possible with instant shots).

Also, are you saying that the GPS will do 72% damage on an uncharged shot and 160% damage on a charged shot, assuming all of the projectiles hit?

As for the link, how are you getting such precise damage dealt numbers for your tests?

That particular day 

- I tested Scimitar first - all damage inflicted numbers as expected ...

- then I tested Graal - again a very consistent weapon ..Damage inflicted as expected (calculated) ...Easy surprises were armor DR ignore and then the fact that ammo power damage was doubled by the charge modifier ... Two charged states (charged or uncharged - no inbetween shenanigans - at that time _I did not/had no reason to_ even suspect other weapons did use a continous charge modifier ..) ..As further proof that Graal's charge modifier uses different mechanics than the one for GPS & Kishok -> at full charge when damage is consistent for all 3 - Graal ammo power damage is being doubled (pressumably because of the charge mod) - while GPS &Kishok ammo power damage is unaffected by the charge modifier ...

- then I switched for the GPS - and GPS damage numbers(snapshots) were anything BUT consistent (narrow interval but not constant)... Looking at the weapon stats I was able to narrow it down to about 0.45 * (1+ 0.3 +0.3) (but always a bit higher ..) ...Only when fully charged did the GPS inflicted damage match the calculated damage 1 * (1+0.3+0.3) ... So at full charge I could test the armor DR ignore and ammo damage ... Holding the trigger caused higher damage values ...So I assumed the charge modifier operates in a continous range between 0.45 and 1 ...


-latter when I tested the kishok - > same problem - only at full charge the damage was consistant (puzzling were the occasional (seemingly random) headshots vs the test ravager - but they patched that ) ...

------
Testing methods - use of a memeditor on SP insanity ... 

Modifié par peddroelmz, 04 juillet 2012 - 09:34 .

[Rokayt]

Wait, The DRELL has the largest encumbrance bonus.

[GodlessPaladin]

@Peddroelmz
So you never tested to see if the Graal could be partially charged?

Also if your GPS figures are correct that's rather... odd.  I might have to test that later, but for now I'll take your word on it.  Added new GPS charge information to the OP.

Modifié par GodlessPaladin, 05 juillet 2012 - 12:16 .

[GodlessPaladin]

Rokayt wrote...

Wait, The DRELL has the largest encumbrance bonus.

The Drell Vanguard does, yes.

And the Asari Justicar has the same encumbrance bonus as the Krogan Vanguard.  In fact, before the weight nerf, the Asari Justicar could get a 200% recharge speed when wielding a cerberus Harrier.  Fun facts!

Modifié par GodlessPaladin, 05 juillet 2012 - 12:16 .

[peddroelm]

GodlessPaladin wrote...
@Peddroelmz
So you never tested to see if the Graal could be partially charged?

I did not do extensive tests about this ...The gun "behaved" as expected so I felt no need to look for some hypotetical/potential intermediate charge stages ..Even if the graal has some intermediate charge levels (a remote possibility which I seriously doubt at this point - needless complication/complexion) its charge modifier is not working like the continous one for GPS & Kishok ...