1199 réponses à ce sujet

[Jere85]

I just hope BioWare will include this, it will be possible for them to do it through paid DLC, they make money, we are happy , i dont really see why i would buy for DLC that wont change anything post ending

[Mechler]

Too much sugar in the ending would just be stupid. Shepard is a big hero but even he can't win a total paragon victory. The best he can do is sacrefice himself instead of all the geth

[THEFRIGGINDOOMGUY!]

I can see why BioWare didn't include a happy ending BUT a happy ending CAN work if there are other possibilities as well. Before the game was launched I thought there were going to be 3 endings. One where Shepard wins and is reunited with his LI and crew mates, one where he dies but the the galactic forces win despite heavy losses(followed by a cutscene showing his funeral) and one where we lose. I was also thinking about one where we lured all the reapers to a system and blew up the mass relay in it. Could have had a lot of interesting events, whose system do we obliterate etc.

Granted, I ratgher liked the EC endings - especially the control eding because I never cared what happened to Shepard in the first place, he is just the player's avatar.

I repeat, people dislike happy endings because most games do not provide alternatives.

Modifié par Octavian the Emperor, 29 juin 2012 - 11:17 .

[Miezul_Carpatin]

Although I would enjoy a happy ending with Shepard living and reuniting with LI, I would also consider a happier and better ending one where some characters die in the final battle a heroic death (ex Grunt being finally overrun by hundreds of husks while protecting the Krogan flank, or Samara fighting tirelessly but being killed by a banshee etc)

Shepard is on the Normandy holding hands with LI while the ship rams and destroys Harbinger. Then reapers lose battle cohesion and what is left of the fleet defeats the reapers conventionally.

After the war 80% of galactic population is dead and the only dreadnaught in the galaxy left is the Volus one. And yet the remaining geth are alive and helping rebuild the galaxy along the quarians and what is left of the other races.

Such an ending would be better for me than what we have got. My moral sense would be at peace.

Modifié par Miezul_Carpatin, 29 juin 2012 - 11:19 .

[davishepard]

The Crucible was meant to be used. The Reapers could never be defeated conventionally, because it's not a war of who has the most soldiers, but which can endure more. And the Reapers can endure, the Protheans, that were best in everything but diversity than the races of the current cycle, proove this thruth.
No matter how high is your EMS, the Reapers could still beat all of them conventionally. The allies forces are meant to give cover to the Crucible deployment, not to engage in a atrition war with the Reapers.

Just put the wishful thinking aside and understand what is presented properly, and not bending things to fit what you want.

Winning conventionally will NEVER make sense, period.

And anyone who can't see that Destroy, Synthesis and Control are happy endings, has serious problems in... something.

Modifié par davishepard, 29 juin 2012 - 11:21 .

[crimzontearz]

Miezul_Carpatin wrote...Although I would enjoy a happy ending with Shepard living and reuniting with LI, I would also consider a happier and better ending one where some characters die in the final battle a heroic death (ex Grunt being finally overrun by hundreds of husks while protecting the Krogan flank, or Samara fighting tirelessly but being killed by a banshee etc) Shepard is on the Normandy holding hands with LI while the ship rams and destroys Harbinger. Then reapers lose battle cohesion and what is left of the fleet defeats the reapers conventionally.After the war 80% of galactic population is dead and the only dreadnaught in the galaxy left is the Volus one. And yet the remaining geth are alive and helping rebuild the galaxy along the quarians and what is left of the other races. Such an ending would be better for me than what we have got. My moral sense would be at peace.

Again I point you to the endings of GoW3 and halo 3





bittersweet but with enough goddamn sweet

[MattFini]

I would've liked a conventional victory to be possible while still using the Crucible.

The biggest problem I have with the ending is StarChild, specifically in that because of his inclusion in the story, Shepard obtains something of a passive victory.

I would've been okay with firing the Crucible to destroy the reapers (although the control and synthesis variations would've had to have been reworked to a certain extent, I think), but I would've MUCH preferred doing this AGAINST StarChild's wishes.

When Shepard gets to the Citadel, there should've been more interference from StarChild to perhaps sway you from your goal, but ultimately Shepard should've been able to DEFEAT him and the reapers by unleashing the Crucible's energy on his own terms, and not at the suggestion of spacebaby.

I also think there should've been a few different outcomes with Shepard living, but Priority: Earth should've been like the suicide mission - except with a few 'impossible' choices sprinkled in (like having to sacrifice someone on Virmire, for example).

[navi88hh]

Been playing the Witcher 2 Enhanced Edition while I've been waiting for the ME3 extended cut.
I must say, the ending of Witcher 2 Enhanced Edition is how you end a game. Even after playing the original Witcher 2 before it felt like I had been playing a totally different game, but even better!

For all disappointed ME fans I absolutely recommend The Witcher 2 Enhanced Edition.

Modifié par navi88hh, 29 juin 2012 - 11:30 .

[Simotech]

ph34r-X wrote...

 Simple paragon ending. 

Shepard Lives, reapers defeated by conventional means, Geth/ EDI lives, Shepard walks off into the sunset with love interest.

Is this basicly what we all want? 

YES. YES.

I support this.

[warlock22]

HagarIshay wrote...

@Feixeno, @Warlock22

Those were no sacrifices. those were casualties . Yes, there is a difference. In wars, you usually have both casualties , and you will need something to sacrifice. What you are asking for, is not having a sacrifice.

Ah so I guess Mordin is a casualtie for cureing the genophage, Legion was a casualtie for giving the Geth the reaper mind, Kal'Reegar and his squad staying behind on Palavan to repair and protect a critical communications tower and since this ending would actually use the entire fleet you had, send them in to sacrif.. I mean be casualties of war to save the many. None of those are sacrifices, hmm maybe you want more. Ok serious question, what would you want to sacrifices? What sacrifices do you think would make this ok?

[warlock22]

WarBaby2 wrote...

That should be an option for reject to turn out IF your EMS is high enough... yup.

I mean, it's BWs own fault for putting the 4th option in the game, now it gotta make sense!

This^

[im commander shep]

For me the issue is not what the ending is but the purpose of the ending. All through the games the idea was kill the reapers save the galaxy, with the ideals of unity no matter what your species and working together for the greater good. Then in the last 15min that idea is thrown away and it becomes now its your job to decide the best way to stop synthetics from destroying all organics at some point in the future, and you have to accept this premise given to you by the catalyst (which most people have trouble with I think). The endings no longer relate to what has gone on in all previous games and to a certain extent go against what you have learnt. No matter the ending the fact you are now expected to forget what your main purpose was and try to find a new resolution to a problem you did not exsited and don't fully understand or accept makes the endings feel wasted and just disjointed from the rest of the story.

[Legion4000]

Allan Schumacher wrote...

Just to be direct though:  Why should this be an option for the refusal ending.  Or even more generally, why should there be an ending that contains the following:

Shepard Lives, reapers defeated by conventional means, Geth/ EDI lives, Shepard walks off into the sunset with love interest.

I'm just asking to hear your thoughts on the subject.  Open question to others that feel the same way.

Okey, I try to answer this in a constructive way.
Every player has an own vision of Shepards final aim throughout the series. I even played different types of Shepards and because of my Role play, each of them had different major goals. 
It is natural that not everyone wants to save the Galaxy with the help of a Reaper. Also not everyone wants to sacrifice Shepard to save the galaxy. I can even imagine that there are a lot of people who wouldn't save the Galaxy, if they could escape with their LI to spent the last hours of war together.
To be more direct. Some of us play the game because they wanted Shepard to finally beat the Reapers, quit his job at the Alliance and have vacation for the rest of his/her live (something like that). Even if such an ultimate glory ending would mean you have to do every single sidequest in the whole series, to get every single war asset and to play every DLC.
I expected something like that before ME3 came out. I literally did everything ingame, to make this happen. It was clear for me, that this won't happen if I just do a speedrun through all 3 games on renegade. Because that's how RPGs or games work in general: The more time you put in, the greater the outcome will be. The pre-release dev quotes even hardened my premonition of that there will be a difficult-to-get, but ultimate ending. So I pushed even more.
And this is why I think such an ending should be available.

[Neol Shendis]

Allan Schumacher wrote...

ph34r-X wrote...

I mean look at the refusal ending. Why can't we have that in the refusal ending, but if you're readiness is too low you get the current refusal ending.

I'm just asking this to facilitate discussion, so I'm not trying to pour salt on the wound or anything (my that sounds ominous...).


I see your opinion come up, and I often state my opinion and perspective.  I want to try something a bit different.  Many feel "why can't we have that in the refusal ending?"

Which is a fair enough point.  The writers/designers could have easily allowed that to be an option (what happens in the game is literally whatever they put in).


Just to be direct though:  Why should this be an option for the refusal ending.  Or even more generally, why should there be an ending that contains the following:

Shepard Lives, reapers defeated by conventional means, Geth/ EDI lives, Shepard walks off into the sunset with love interest.

I'm just asking to hear your thoughts on the subject.  Open question to others that feel the same way.

Starchild is the AI of the reapers, you know, the implacable and "evil" enemy and destroyers of countless civilisations. And you believed him enough to do as he tells you? You committed suicide because he says it will make things better for your cycle? WOW!  Doesn't that just sound a bit stupid?

Without the ending allowing for the possibility of victory by conventional means results in you always having to do the reapers bidding in order to "win", the previously discussed and ridiculus IMHO A,B or C choices;  This is a lucidrous concept given the series ethos of victory at impossible odds and survival. 

I'm sorry but for me ME3 has next to no replay value at this time, and probably the rest of the series because of it.
ME1 whilst not being without its faults is still to this day one of my favourite games of all time.

"SO BE IT" - it really does sound like a great big fat FU from Bioware for having your own established-in-game morals and beliefs.   Cheers! <_<

Modifié par Neol Shendis, 29 juin 2012 - 11:51 .

[Tirranek]

Feixeno wrote...

Tirranek wrote...

ph34r-X wrote...

 Simple paragon ending. 

Shepard Lives, reapers defeated by conventional means, Geth/ EDI lives, Shepard walks off into the sunset with love interest.

Is this basicly what we all want? 

Frankly, no. In a story that's about a giant galactic war claiming billions of lives, having the central cast have a fairytale ending is massively inconsistent and basically subscribes to the 'But I don't know who those billions were, so I don't care' kind of mentality.

30,000 children are going to die today from preventable causes. You probably care about that. I care about that. You and I probably have empathy. But what are we going to actually do about it today? Nothing, because they're faceless. It's just an unfortunate aspect of human nature that we don't try as hard or have less sympathy with someone or something we don't have an immediate empathic connection with.

I don't think a Refusal ending where lots of people die, but the Reapers are defeated is inconsistent with the series. If you play a Paragon Shepard, it's pretty consistent with the heroic figure that Shepard represents.

The reason I'm not going to be able to stop that is because in all honesty, I can't. You can't drop a single stick in a flooding river and expect to make a dam. It's not because I don't care. Though I'll admit you're right, it's hard to picture something with which you have no connection.

That argument doesn't hold up because of two things though. First of all, as a narrative there are themes governing the structure of the game. One of these themes is that of death and loss. To suddenly disconnect Shepard and the squad from this would be jarring. Also, the example you gave is different because while it's prevelant, it's not universal. EVERYONE is effected by the invasion in the game, including and arguably most importantly, Shepard and co. It doesn't make much sense to have the tip of the spear not get messy.

Sorry about all the metaphors lol

[Elizabeth Lestrad]

To the guy who brought up Lord of the Rings and Star Wars (Particularly IV and VI), your exactly right.  Two Towers/Return of the King are perfect examples of a heroic ending.  Tears of the Sun, another perfect example of a bitter-sweet but none the less heroic ending (a lot of people die, but the main heroes still survive).

Theres nothing heroic or victorious about the way they forced the ending.  The villian should NEVER have the last laugh. EVER.  It would be like writing a Die Hard movie where McClaine yippe-kay-yeas the villian to hell with a tactical nuke to keep him from taking over Washington DC only to have the entire city get nuked in the process killing billions of people which was the villians main goal all along.  McClaine may be a martyr, but hes far from a hero and its far from a victory.

Think about this, the 'EC' clearly establishes the kid as a Reaper. (Just listen to his 'SO BE IT').  As stated in millions of threads and youtube videos before EC was released Shehard would never EVER take orders from a reaper.  It would have been like the boys at the Alamo saying 'You know what Santa Ana, we'll let you have the Alamo AND Texas in exchange for letting us join your army'.  Adding insult to injury is the temper tantrum that is the 'refusal' ending  which is as much an insult to the armada and shephards team as it is to the player. I'm really supposed to believe that a guy who always has a plan, can survive 2 suicide missions, kill reapers with a rocket launcher, get the Geth and Quarians to make up.  I'm supposed to believe that this Hannibal Smith/Chuch Norris character you've created is incapable of leading his people to victory?  Sorry, I still dont buy it.

The only heroic ending choice was the refusal ending.  To say No, we will fight you and we will prevail, against overwhelming odds just like the warriors of Redcliff, the soldiers at the Battle of the Bulge, the soviets in the Battle for Stalingrad....  but instead we get a slap in the face from Bioware who insists that the only way Shephard will be allowed to be a hero is for him to betray his species and his allies, side with his sworn enemy through 3 entire games, and then martyr himself .  Sorry, but traitors are the furthest thing from heroic and thats exactly what Shephard is.  And not just a traitor to his people and his allies, but his own ideals as well.  It was obvious by the end of the second game that Shephard would lead his people into a glorious battle with the Reapers where they would pound them into the depths of hell in the names of the dead

Finally you have the Crucible.  Everything leading up to its completion screamed weapon, not a glorified com station.  Im really supposed to believe that a highly advanced race in their dying months would say ' we need the ultimate weapon to defeat the reapers....lets build a radio tower!  Sorry, but I still don't buy it.  With the flashbacks showing the protheans as a bunch of hard core soldiers?  No.

You spend the entire series building up to one of the epic military upsets since the battle of Red Cliff and (even after the extended cut) still manage to not only make the entire series meaningless with your sudden change to a plot theme reminisce of the Borg (Resistance is futile).  To be completely honest, thats the only reason I kept playing, was I knew when Shepard won, that the final battle and victory were going to be amazing and cinematic.  As they (still) stand...its still nothing short of sad (the shake your head kind, not the emotional kind).  The extended cut was Biowares opportunity to own up to their mistakes (the whole beam me up/star child segment) like adults but all they did was add insult to injury by turning the resistance ending (which since they seem hell bent on keeping the totally random 'reaper kid') into a bad joke.

Having done Kotor, and Dragon Age: Origins I expected better from Biowares writers and its sad that they couldnt just go with the ending that was expected and just had to attempt to make it 'artistic'...Well it failed, and after playing the extended cut, it still failed.  Its obvious the ending writers don't get how a heroic ending is done:

-Ground battle segment (companions/others like grunt survival depending on loyalty/readiness)
-Recieve report from the fleet saying their activating the crucible
-Destroy reaper on the ground
-Crucible not activating
-Shepard & Co hoof it via Normandy to the crucible and board it, fighting off collectors (since the Geth are now allies and we've only seen the giant ship-like reapers)
-Shepard activates the crucible: disabling the reapers abilities to coordinate/communicate/disabling shields or weapons/whatever 
-Fleet roflstomps reapers into oblivion despite having suffered heavy casualties in the fight
-Reapers attempt to retreat back but the persuing fleet are destroyed before they can reach the gate.
-Shephard and the Normandy heralded as heroes medals, awards, citations abound while mourning the loss of the comrades and allies who died in battle.

~Credits~

-Shephard retires and settles down with love interest having NOT run into some horribly contrived 'star child'/reaper kid.


Edit:
And I completely agree that its made pretty obvious that the reaper kid is THE command and control AI for the reapers.

Modifié par Elizabeth Lestrad, 29 juin 2012 - 11:56 .

[Darman]

Agreed on main topic. But just a happy reunion and Li epilouge for Destroy would also be enough.

[Velocithon]

It should be a choice.

The entire game series, I was able to dictate HOW things went down. I could be nice, or be a dick. I could do things that made people die, or live. Aside from having to do certain missions, I had a lot of freedom how those missions went down.

In ME2 you play the game to live, however I could play the game so that I would die, if I wanted to. So why in ME3 do I have to die? Why can't I play the game to live? (again, Destroy doesn't count)

[MindSweeper14]

I don't like the idea.  To be honest I don't have a complex or detailed argument to support that- it just doesn't feel right to me.  I would've been genuinely surprised if Shep had walked off into the sunset at the end of the game. To my mind, there's nothing more heroic than sacrifice. Having a "perfect" (more or less, massive casulties aside) ending just doesn't sit right with me.  I can see the appeal, but it's not for me and I'm fine with it not being an option.

Personal opinion etc. etc.

Modifié par MindSweeper14, 29 juin 2012 - 12:03 .

[Elizabeth Lestrad]

MindSweeper14 wrote...

Personally, I wouldn't want this ending available. Although part of me wants to see Shep live happliy ever after, if it turns out we could defeat the reapers conventionally then it would raise the question of why we ever bothered with the crucible anyway. Also, after pretty much every character saying how there was no way of winning by conventional means it would need a pretty good explanation as to how they were all wrong.

Umm. Rocket launchers & Air strikes?  Or did you not play the segments where Shepard fought and killed reapers by himself not once but twice (at least).  Thats conventional and only further illustrates how badly a slap in the face the resistance ending was.

Modifié par Elizabeth Lestrad, 29 juin 2012 - 11:58 .

[Ageless Face]

warlock22 wrote...

Ah so I guess Mordin is a casualtie for cureing the genophage, Legion was a casualtie for giving the Geth the reaper mind, Kal'Reegar and his squad staying behind on Palavan to repair and protect a critical communications tower and since this ending would actually use the entire fleet you had, send them in to sacrif.. I mean be casualties of war to save the many. None of those are sacrifices, hmm maybe you want more. Ok serious question, what would you want to sacrifices? What sacrifices do you think would make this ok?

Exactly. Those were sacrifices to make get what we wanted. There were no happy endings for it. For the final choices we also need sacrifices. We can't just bit the reapers in a happy way, cause we are proven that even smaller things, curing the Genophage, Legion uploading the reaper code, we need to make sacrifices to achice our goals. So in the biggest, most important choice, the one that will change everything, we WON'T make the necessary sacrifice?
Disney. That is all I can say about it.

And there are no "ok" sacrifices. Every sacrifice is bad. But they are important for the plot. And the fact BioWare placed them in is good. To every one of the choices- even reject, there is a future. A good one.

[PSUHammer]

ph34r-X wrote...

 Simple paragon ending. 

Shepard Lives, reapers defeated by conventional means, Geth/ EDI lives, Shepard walks off into the sunset with love interest.

Is this basicly what we all want? 

Hell, no.  

[warlock22]

Neol Shendis wrote...

Allan Schumacher wrote...

ph34r-X wrote...

I mean look at the refusal ending. Why can't we have that in the refusal ending, but if you're readiness is too low you get the current refusal ending.

I'm just asking this to facilitate discussion, so I'm not trying to pour salt on the wound or anything (my that sounds ominous...).


I see your opinion come up, and I often state my opinion and perspective.  I want to try something a bit different.  Many feel "why can't we have that in the refusal ending?"

Which is a fair enough point.  The writers/designers could have easily allowed that to be an option (what happens in the game is literally whatever they put in).


Just to be direct though:  Why should this be an option for the refusal ending.  Or even more generally, why should there be an ending that contains the following:

Shepard Lives, reapers defeated by conventional means, Geth/ EDI lives, Shepard walks off into the sunset with love interest.

I'm just asking to hear your thoughts on the subject.  Open question to others that feel the same way.

Starchild is the AI of the reapers, you know, the implacable and "evil" enemy and destroyers of countless civilisations. And you believed him enough to do as he tells you? You committed suicide because he says it will make things better for your cycle? WOW!  Doesn't that just sound a bit stupid?

Without the ending allowing for the possibility of victory by conventional means results in you always having to do the reapers bidding in order to "win", the previously discussed and ridiculus IMHO A,B or C choices;  This is a lucidrous concept given the series ethos of victory at impossible odds and survival. 

I'm sorry but for me ME3 has next to no replay value at this time, and probably the rest of the series because of it.
ME1 whilst not being without its faults is still to this day one of my favourite games of all time.

"SO BE IT" - it really does sound like a great big fat FU from Bioware for having your own established-in-game morals and beliefs.   Cheers! <_<

Agreed. Having to beat the reapers on their terms shouldn't be forced.

[Ageless Face]

Elizabeth Lestrad wrote...

MindSweeper14 wrote...

Personally, I wouldn't want this ending available. Although part of me wants to see Shep live happliy ever after, if it turns out we could defeat the reapers conventionally then it would raise the question of why we ever bothered with the crucible anyway. Also, after pretty much every character saying how there was no way of winning by conventional means it would need a pretty good explanation as to how they were all wrong.

Umm. Rocket launchers & Air strikes?  Or did you not play the segments where Shepard fought and killed reapers by himself not once but twice (at least).  Thats conventional and only further illustrates how badly a slap in the face the resistance ending was.

Small reapers. Try to kill hundereds of Sovereign class reapers. A bit hard.

[IntoTheDarkness]

Howabout simple bad ending where everyone dies and the cycle's continuation is showed 3,4 more times.