1199 réponses à ce sujet

[MindSweeper14]

Elizabeth Lestrad wrote...

MindSweeper14 wrote...

Personally, I wouldn't want this ending available. Although part of me wants to see Shep live happliy ever after, if it turns out we could defeat the reapers conventionally then it would raise the question of why we ever bothered with the crucible anyway. Also, after pretty much every character saying how there was no way of winning by conventional means it would need a pretty good explanation as to how they were all wrong.

Umm. Rocket launchers & Air strikes?  Or did you not play the segments where Shepard fought and killed reapers by himself not once but twice (at least).  Thats conventional and only further illustrates how badly a slap in the face the resistance ending was.

Editied my post to better reflect my view on the OP, but if rocket launchers and airstrikes would cut it, then it would still raise the question of why nobody seemed to think conventional means were sufficient in the first place.  You could retcon the purpose if the crucible to make the reapers weaker in some way and thus vunerable to standard weapons (or something) but that would be a much larger change than was ever going to be provided by the EC

[Elizabeth Lestrad]

HagarIshay wrote...

warlock22 wrote...

Ah so I guess Mordin is a casualtie for cureing the genophage, Legion was a casualtie for giving the Geth the reaper mind, Kal'Reegar and his squad staying behind on Palavan to repair and protect a critical communications tower and since this ending would actually use the entire fleet you had, send them in to sacrif.. I mean be casualties of war to save the many. None of those are sacrifices, hmm maybe you want more. Ok serious question, what would you want to sacrifices? What sacrifices do you think would make this ok?

Exactly. Those were sacrifices to make get what we wanted. There were no happy endings for it. For the final choices we also need sacrifices. We can't just bit the reapers in a happy way, cause we are proven that even smaller things, curing the Genophage, Legion uploading the reaper code, we need to make sacrifices to achice our goals. So in the biggest, most important choice, the one that will change everything, we WON'T make the necessary sacrifice?
Disney. That is all I can say about it.

And there are no "ok" sacrifices. Every sacrifice is bad. But they are important for the plot. And the fact BioWare placed them in is good. To every one of the choices- even reject, there is a future. A good one.

You seem to miss the point, sacrifices were made, yes but it was NEVER a driving theme since they only began to appear in ME3 (yes thats two games building up Bioware's 'A-Team'.  The sacrifices of Legion, Moradin, etc worked for one reason....THEY WEREN'T ON THE TEAM (as far as ME3 was concerned).  Even as the sacricfices began to pile it only served to show just how much of a cockroach the normandy team was (as in being able to survive through anything) that was built upon after not one 'suicide mission' but two.  Shepard killed at least two reapers by himself in ME3 alone.  Sorry, but even after their 'clarification' the game is still waiting for the ending thats been spoon-fed us through two and 3/4 games.

Bioware: Ditch the reaper kid and try again.  Third times a charm.

Modifié par Elizabeth Lestrad, 29 juin 2012 - 12:13 .

[Chrome tater tot]

I would have liked to see the resist ending be them just tearing each other apart. Reapers vs. Galaxy in an absolute bloody orgy, little to no survivors for either side. And the voice-over could be catalyst like "Fuuuuuuuuuu..."

[macrocarl]

No for me. I read some of the fan fiction where there's happy endings with actual reunions and stuff. While I appreciate all the hard work everyone put into that I couldn't help feeling that seeing a reunion kind of lessened the impact of the trilogy. You can get a sense of a 'happy ending' with a high EMS Destroy choice but only by making HUGE sacrifices. I thought that was more fitting with the overall tone of the series.

[Wulfram]

I think it's pretty obvious the Bioware regretted killing off the Geth in Destroy.  Hence why their destruction is basically glossed over.

Given that, you can probably head canon them into being alive, or at least restorable, and get pretty close to the ending the OP wants.  Just with dead EDI.

Allan Schumacher wrote...

 we could have had pink flamingos materialize doing the macarena while shooting laser beams out of their eyes as the way the game wraps up. 

Isn't that the Synthesis ending?

[Elizabeth Lestrad]

MindSweeper14 wrote...

Elizabeth Lestrad wrote...

MindSweeper14 wrote...

Personally, I wouldn't want this ending available. Although part of me wants to see Shep live happliy ever after, if it turns out we could defeat the reapers conventionally then it would raise the question of why we ever bothered with the crucible anyway. Also, after pretty much every character saying how there was no way of winning by conventional means it would need a pretty good explanation as to how they were all wrong.

Umm. Rocket launchers & Air strikes?  Or did you not play the segments where Shepard fought and killed reapers by himself not once but twice (at least).  Thats conventional and only further illustrates how badly a slap in the face the resistance ending was.

Editied my post to better reflect my view on the OP, but if rocket launchers and airstrikes would cut it, then it would still raise the question of why nobody seemed to think conventional means were sufficient in the first place.  You could retcon the purpose if the crucible to make the reapers weaker in some way and thus vunerable to standard weapons (or something) but that would be a much larger change than was ever going to be provided by the EC

Look at history. Look at cinema. Its a habit to think of victory simply in 'That guy has more troops than me. I cant stand a chance'. Its that very fact that makes military upsets like the Battle of the Bulge, Redcliff, Pirates of the Carribean: At Worlds End, Helms Deep (more book than movie), etc all so epic and heroic.  Its nothing random....thats life....dispair is real and believable.  But those situations have given rise to so many amazing military upsets throughout history and fiction is unbelievable.  All it took was for one guy to say 'We can do it! Never give up, never surrender and we will prevail!'  to rally a 'Death or Glory' charge of defiance that makes those battle so epic and heroic.  Because those people used strategy and cunning to defeat vastly superior forces (in quantity or quality or a little of both).

The allied fleet should have won plain and simple.  If shephard could take reapers out on his own (and at least once with Normandy's support fire) they should have won because they were the animal thats backed into a corner.  They're going to fight the best and fiercest they can and an AI wouldnt get that and that would be the point that (to quote the Japanese commander who lead the attack on Pearl Harbor) only one thought would be going through their collective minds:

'We've awoken a sleeping giant'

Modifié par Elizabeth Lestrad, 29 juin 2012 - 12:20 .

[Axis77]

With every possibilty out there in people's heads on how the game can end, of course this option will be considered. While I never expected an option like that I think in my guts I did want to see my toon walk away to fight another day. I think everyone playing the game and caring about their Shep would have that inate response. That being said, the impact all 3 games has had time and again is the sacrfices it forces you to make. So following that thread of thought, it's no surprise to me that the last game should involve the hardest sacrifice(s).

I respected the general thought if not the execution of the original endings and I feel Bioware did make some decent headway with the EC in creating a bit more divergent path for the end-user in seeing and feeling the final choice they made. I wasn't superthrilled with the powerpoint slide show during the final voice-over sequence and not because it was a slideshow... because I felt the quality of the images and the layered effects just didn't rise to the level of the rest of the game. It retained too much of a "story board" feeling and not enough polish. As an art director it's hard for me to see such a breakdown between the mediums inside the product, but that's my own viewpoint. I was hoping that the "reject" ending led to some other way to defeat the reapers that was fraught with destruction and death on all sides (depending on War Assets) but it looks like that ship has sailed. It would have been much more rewarding to me if a very, very high war asset rating could have unlocked a darker but still successful outcome to the conflict. You could argue that is what it does now but it's hard for me to make the jump from the "archives" to a nice bright happy future for these unknown humanoids in the final scene although logically I do realize it's the same result as picking any of the other options. I just feel a bit more dissonance with the reject option. I almost would have rather seen the beginnings of another confilct with the Reapers starting and not be sure of the outcome of that future civilization.

Overall I am pretty happy with the EC and while it's easy to armchair critique the entire game and process I do know that immense amounts of work have been put into it. So, warts and all, I still love the series and give Bioware props for delivering it to us and always attempting to push things further.

Modifié par Axis77, 29 juin 2012 - 12:36 .

[DMWW]

Elizabeth Lestrad wrote...
You seem to miss the point, sacrifices were made, yes but it was NEVER a driving theme since they only began to appear in ME3

Tell that to Ashley and Kaidan.

[warlock22]

HagarIshay wrote...

warlock22 wrote...

Ah so I guess Mordin is a casualtie for cureing the genophage, Legion was a casualtie for giving the Geth the reaper mind, Kal'Reegar and his squad staying behind on Palavan to repair and protect a critical communications tower and since this ending would actually use the entire fleet you had, send them in to sacrif.. I mean be casualties of war to save the many. None of those are sacrifices, hmm maybe you want more. Ok serious question, what would you want to sacrifices? What sacrifices do you think would make this ok?

Exactly. Those were sacrifices to make get what we wanted. There were no happy endings for it. For the final choices we also need sacrifices. We can't just bit the reapers in a happy way, cause we are proven that even smaller things, curing the Genophage, Legion uploading the reaper code, we need to make sacrifices to achice our goals. So in the biggest, most important choice, the one that will change everything, we WON'T make the necessary sacrifice?
Disney. That is all I can say about it.

And there are no "ok" sacrifices. Every sacrifice is bad. But they are important for the plot. And the fact BioWare placed them in is good. To every one of the choices- even reject, there is a future. A good one.

So having all those billions of people die, those characters who sacrificed them selfs and useing your fleet to stop the reapers instead of saving all most everyone is a Disney ending? I see it more as a LotR ending or StarWars ending, but I guess you and I mean two different things when we say Disney ending. And saying that all the ending have a good future that comes down to opinion, but yeah there is a good future in Refuse for the next cycle but not for this one, you know the one your trying to save. But you still haven't answered my question, what do you think would be a worthly awful sacrifice? What about if you had to sacrifice Earth? As in it could be destroyed or uninhabitable? Have some people evacuate due to a message from Shepard but not all ofcorse, damn I'm not even sure I could do that.

[DMWW]

Elizabeth Lestrad wrote...
Look at history. Look at cinema. Its a habit to think of victory simply in 'That guy has more troops than me. I cant stand a chance'. Its that very fact that makes military upsets like the Battle of the Bulge, Redcliff, Pirates of the Carribean: At Worlds End, Helms Deep (more book than movie), etc all so epic and heroic.  Its nothing random....thats life....dispair is real and believable.  But those situations have given rise to so many amazing military upsets throughout history and fiction is unbelievable.  All it took was for one guy to say 'We can do it! Never give up, never surrender and we will prevail!'

At Helm's Deep, as I recall, the one guy who said "We can do it! Never give up, never surrender" would have been very dead indeed without the one guy who turned up with a bunch of reinforcements and a deus ex machina army of walking trees.

 They're going to fight the best and fiercest they can and an AI wouldnt get that and that would be the point that (to quote the Japanese commander who lead the attack on Pearl Harbor) only one thought would be going through their collective minds:
'We've awoken a sleeping giant' 

By which he meant that they'd provoked an enemy with a much larger industrial base and military capability than their own. This does not obviously apply to the Reapers vs. the Organics.

Modifié par DMWW, 29 juin 2012 - 12:25 .

[warlock22]

Jere85 wrote...

I just hope BioWare will include this, it will be possible for them to do it through paid DLC, they make money, we are happy , i dont really see why i would buy for DLC that wont change anything post ending

Exactly

[NM_Che56]

Life is full of things you don't have full control over no matter what u do. This game is supposed to have an element of reality. And I'm sure if they did this people would gripe about it being unrealistic.

Also, it's apparent that a major theme in these games is sacrifice. You'd loose that in a major way.

[Ageless Face]

Elizabeth Lestrad wrote...

You seem to miss the point, sacrifices were made, yes but it was NEVER a driving theme since they only began to appear in ME3 (yes thats two games building up Bioware's 'A-Team'.  The sacrifices of Legion, Moradin, etc worked for one reason....THEY WEREN'T ON THE TEAM (as far as ME3 was concerned).  Even as the sacricfices began to pile it only served to show just how much of a cockroach the normandy team was (as in being able to survive through anything) that was built upon after not one 'suicide mission' but two.  Shepard killed at least two reapers by himself in ME3 alone.  Sorry, but even after their 'clarification' the game is still waiting for the ending thats been spoon-fed us through two and 3/4 games.

Bioware: Ditch the reaper kid and try again.  Third times a charm.

Really? We had many sacrifices during ME. The rachni queen (letting a dangerous race to continue to live, or kill them just to be safe. Sacrifice safety, or a race?), Bring down the sky (Balak or the hostages), Ashley or Kaidan, Maelon's data (similar to the rachni queen), Arrival (need I go on?), the Ascension dreadnought against Sovereign, woking with Cerberus for the greater good, and so on. It's not just in ME3. Sacrifces were ALWAYS there. It was just the most obvious in ME3, since BioWare emphesis on it more. So why does the ending choices should be different?

Modifié par HagarIshay, 29 juin 2012 - 12:26 .

[shadey]

people probably expected a good ending in me3 because in me2 it was so easy to do the suicide run and have everyone live.

to get the bad ending you had to literally make a determined effort to fail and make the wrong choices

[Elizabeth Lestrad]

DMWW wrote...

Elizabeth Lestrad wrote...
You seem to miss the point, sacrifices were made, yes but it was NEVER a driving theme since they only began to appear in ME3

Tell that to Ashley and Kaidan.

True, shows how memorable they were doesnt it?   Never really liked Kaidens character so it wasnt that big of a loss.  Point still stands. 

Still, you found one instance in what....like 160 hours of game...hardly a 'driving plot'.  Put it another way, if you had the number of 'primary character' deaths piling up in 1 and 2 like you did in 3, then yes, it would be a driving theme
...not to mention utterly stupid not just from the fact that they would have no-reoccuring characters thus no real time for character development and attachment (though to be fair, I knew I was going to like Tali from the second Shephard met her in ME1) but also from the fact that nobody likes an writer who kills characters off just for the hell of it (Its been 5 minutes since the last death...who can I kill now to make the story "gripping"?)

And PLEASE, the Rachni Queen does NOT by any stretch count as a 'sacrifice' was she a member of Shephards team? No, therefore what was Shephard sacrificing? Nothing.  The Bal-whats it are another example.  You spend almost as much time killing them as the reapers between one and two.  Arrival and Bring Down The Sky were far from sacrifices.  Calling 'Bring Down The Sky' a sacrifice is tanamount to saying "Hmm...do I shoot Bin Laden or let him kill the Red Cross worker."

Now if you played Renegade then yes, you probably would have made alot more 'sacrifices' (but again, if your evil you would hardly mourn those losses so they still wouldnt really be 'sacrifices' more like...whats the army term...'acceptable losses'  Theres a subtle difference.

Modifié par Elizabeth Lestrad, 29 juin 2012 - 12:40 .

[CHALET]

I like bittersweet endings, but eh... I do think there should be endings for people who got stupidly high EMS and basically made every best possible decision over the three games. It should reaallyyy be a pain to get though.

[Elizabeth Lestrad]

CHALET wrote...

I like bittersweet endings, but eh... I do think there should be endings for people who got stupidly high EMS and basically made every best possible decision over the three games. It should reaallyyy be a pain to get though.

Agreed.

[Carlthestrange]

ph34r-X wrote...

 Simple paragon ending. 

Shepard Lives, reapers defeated by conventional means, Geth/ EDI lives, Shepard walks off into the sunset with love interest.

Is this basicly what we all want? 

You've got more chance of Shepard defeating the Reapers with a Silver Potato.

[Ageless Face]

warlock22 wrote...

So having all those billions of people die, those characters who sacrificed them selfs and useing your fleet to stop the reapers instead of saving all most everyone is a Disney ending? I see it more as a LotR ending or StarWars ending, but I guess you and I mean two different things when we say Disney ending. And saying that all the ending have a good future that comes down to opinion, but yeah there is a good future in Refuse for the next cycle but not for this one, you know the one your trying to save. But you still haven't answered my question, what do you think would be a worthly awful sacrifice? What about if you had to sacrifice Earth? As in it could be destroyed or uninhabitable? Have some people evacuate due to a message from Shepard but not all ofcorse, damn I'm not even sure I could do that.

It's a Disney ending if you think wars will be over without you needing making the hard calls. When you see everyone cheering for you, simply forgetting the lives that were lost. It's a cliche, so I call it Disney. You can call it Star Wars if you want. But in my opinion they are no so far from each other.

And I don't understand what you are asking. Do you want me to answer what kinds of sacrifices I wouldn't want to do? Or what do I think are good kinds of sacrifices for a plot?

[warlock22]

HagarIshay wrote...

Elizabeth Lestrad wrote...

You seem to miss the point, sacrifices were made, yes but it was NEVER a driving theme since they only began to appear in ME3 (yes thats two games building up Bioware's 'A-Team'.  The sacrifices of Legion, Moradin, etc worked for one reason....THEY WEREN'T ON THE TEAM (as far as ME3 was concerned).  Even as the sacricfices began to pile it only served to show just how much of a cockroach the normandy team was (as in being able to survive through anything) that was built upon after not one 'suicide mission' but two.  Shepard killed at least two reapers by himself in ME3 alone.  Sorry, but even after their 'clarification' the game is still waiting for the ending thats been spoon-fed us through two and 3/4 games.

Bioware: Ditch the reaper kid and try again.  Third times a charm.

Really? We had many sacrifices during ME. The rachni queen (letting a dangerous race to continue to live, or kill them just to be safe. Sacrifice safety, or a race?), Bring down the sky (Balak or the hostages), Ashley or Kaidan, Maelon's data (similar to the rachni queen), Arrival (need I go on?), the Ascension dreadnought against Sovereign, woking with Cerberus for the greater good, and so on. It's not just in ME3. Sacrifces were ALWAYS there. It was just the most obvious in ME3, since BioWare emphesis on it more. So why does the ending choices should be different?

Your only furthering my point. We feel we have sacrificed enough, but you want more and that fine, choose the other endings.

[Elizabeth Lestrad]

warlock22 wrote...

HagarIshay wrote...

Elizabeth Lestrad wrote...

You seem to miss the point, sacrifices were made, yes but it was NEVER a driving theme since they only began to appear in ME3 (yes thats two games building up Bioware's 'A-Team'.  The sacrifices of Legion, Moradin, etc worked for one reason....THEY WEREN'T ON THE TEAM (as far as ME3 was concerned).  Even as the sacricfices began to pile it only served to show just how much of a cockroach the normandy team was (as in being able to survive through anything) that was built upon after not one 'suicide mission' but two.  Shepard killed at least two reapers by himself in ME3 alone.  Sorry, but even after their 'clarification' the game is still waiting for the ending thats been spoon-fed us through two and 3/4 games.

Bioware: Ditch the reaper kid and try again.  Third times a charm.

Really? We had many sacrifices during ME. The rachni queen (letting a dangerous race to continue to live, or kill them just to be safe. Sacrifice safety, or a race?), Bring down the sky (Balak or the hostages), Ashley or Kaidan, Maelon's data (similar to the rachni queen), Arrival (need I go on?), the Ascension dreadnought against Sovereign, woking with Cerberus for the greater good, and so on. It's not just in ME3. Sacrifces were ALWAYS there. It was just the most obvious in ME3, since BioWare emphesis on it more. So why does the ending choices should be different?

Your only furthering my point. We feel we have sacrificed enough, but you want more and that fine, choose the other endings.

Agreed and as said previously, those arnt sacrifices.  They were not members of the team, so Shephard wasnt sacrificing anything.  If your a renegade and you did things like shoot......the Krogan dude whos name escapes me those may be 'Acceptable Losses' but as a cold, heartless renegade your not going to mourn them.  For something to truely be a sacrifice you have to feel sorrow, regret, etc.  I played the Renegade ending of ME1 Shepard and Udina were almost glad to see the Ascension go (making it more treason against the Council races than 'acceptable losses')  but it was far from a sacrifice.   Even shooting the Krogan Shepard was like 'he went mad, *shrug* had to put him down like an animal.  Again it was cold-hearted, but it was far from a sacrifice.

Modifié par Elizabeth Lestrad, 29 juin 2012 - 12:44 .

[Ithurael]

ph34r-X wrote...

 Simple paragon ending. 

Shepard Lives, reapers defeated by conventional means, Geth/ EDI lives, Shepard walks off into the sunset with love interest.

Is this basicly what we all want? 

I like the Crucible idea (a MacGuffin yes) but a conventional victory would leave it too open to a Sequel
- Are there other reapers?
- Will they come back?
- etc

I wanted this to be final end to the Reaper story and Shepard story.

All that I would truly agree on is that we get to see
-Shepard Alive
-LI reunion with crew
-children? (seriously, he had sex with Liara like 3 times - and no kids?)
-return of the king (film) had a great reunion scene with all four hobbits sitting down at a bar having a drink (they didn't even say anything) and it was perfect
-edi alive and geth alive would be nice
-seeing War Assets in a fight would be REALLY nice

A conventional victory would be REALLY f*cking epic though...I mean that would just be so over the top awesome!

[dbt-kenny]

Well they do not have to use conventional means but something a lot better than what we have right now.
And yes it would be nice to have a where Sheppard lives at least.
Me I like for them all to live and not destroy the relay system. After all it is what we been playing the game for.

There also could be a bad ending where Sheppard lives and in the new ruler of know space. If he been a bad boy that is. Lots of space magic sends him over the edge nice renegade ending that.

[Elizabeth Lestrad]

Ithurael wrote...

A conventional victory would be REALLY f*cking epic though...I mean that would just be so over the top awesome!

Thats part of the reason it was so expected.  With how epic and incredible they made everything else, a historic victory was the necessary icing on the cake.

And LOL at the Shepard/Emperor of Mankind ending....that would be totally epic too

Modifié par Elizabeth Lestrad, 29 juin 2012 - 12:48 .

[Ageless Face]

warlock22 wrote...

Your only furthering my point. We feel we have sacrificed enough, but you want more and that fine, choose the other endings.

BioWare tried to make the game as realistic as they could. Real war will have sacrifices. What, having sacrifices makes it not fair if we get more? It doesn't work like that.

 
Agreed and as said previously, those arnt sacrifices.  They were not members of the team, so Shephard wasnt sacrificing anything.  If your a renegade and you did things like shoot......the Krogan dude whos name escapes me those may be 'Acceptable Losses' but as a cold, heartless renegade your not going to mourn them.  For something to truely be a sacrifice you have to feel sorrow, regret, etc.  I played the Renegade ending of ME1 Shepard and Udina were almost glad to see the Ascension go (making it more treason against the Council races than 'acceptable losses')  but it was far from a sacrifice.   Even shooting the Krogan Shepard was like 'he went mad, *shrug* had to put him down like an animal.  Again it was cold-hearted, but it was far from a sacrifice.

 

Does it matter how you play it? Those are sacrifices, like it or not. In the ending, you might couldn't care less about the synthetics. So you will get your happy ending there. Or someone wouldn't care to merge DNA. Or even better, becoming immortal! A god with counltless reapers to control!

When you look at this like that, nothing is a sacrifice. So you will get your happy ending no matter what.