1199 réponses à ce sujet

[N7Keller]

I don't want this. There needs to be some kinda of consequences. If there wasn't one, then even more people would choose destroy.

[DCowboy948209]

I would love an ending where everything ends well. Shepard and team reunite, galaxy is saved while not going by the Catalyst's choices, basically anything that can go right will go right, but I certainly wouldn't expect it. It's all out war against giants machines. Bad things will happen. People will die. Would I like a 'perfect' ending to be a possibility? Yes. If that were to happen, there would have to be an option where the cycle loses to the reapers, and all of their work on the crucible and all of the knowledge they acquired is lost too. I would have liked to have dozens of options with hundreds of variables, but that may have taken a year or more of extra development time. For now, I'm okay with my Destroy ending.

Modifié par DCowboy948209, 29 juin 2012 - 10:49 .

[NOD-INFORMER37]

I'd even pay for it Bioware, if that gives you any incentive.

[Feanor_II]

Karimloo wrote...

Feanor_II wrote...

Yup..... and also unicorns, rainbows and a rain of cookies/candy.

Now seriously, I like things as they are.... I think that as I grow older I fell less empathy for "perfect" endings, a certain degree of sacrifice/toll is necesary for me to find an ending beliable and satisfactory.

For example, in DA:O I found much more satisfactory the ending with "William" (the guy in left <---) and the "Ultimate sacrifce" than "Nerdanel"'s "Dark Ritual" ending

Being older makes you more cynical?

Dude, I'm 19 years old. How old are you? 60?

Just because you're older doesn't mean you SHOULD become cynical and brooding. You can still be light hearted.

I just don't get the distaste for happiness and love. It's like people aren't pissed off with whats going on in Real Life we have to **** up our games - which we use for pleasure and enjoyment. This feels like the Romantic/Neoclassical era all over again. I think the west is on it's period right now.

If you ask....... I'm 30.... and I don't consider myself cynical, though I might have a bit of that,.... Hell! my friends and job collegues think of me that I'm a kind person even though sometimes I take things at heart too much!!!!!!

But you know? Certain degree a tragedy..... I like that on stories, I think that the best stories are Greek myths (the original ones, not the Hollywoo/Disney Light versions), and those are FULL of tragedy, combining almost equally darkness and light, heroism and misery, glory and ruin..... Heracles fullfilled his 12 jobs, but before he killed his wife and sons and finally was "betrayed" by her 2nd wife. Theseus abandoned the woman he loved.....
I consider The Silmarillion Tolkien's top work (sadly it's too raw) and nothing equals Turin's or Fëanor's arcs.
And more recently, A Song of Ice & Fire...... what can I say, if there is people who haven't read the books or seen HBO's adaptations I won't spoil it here.

Happy ending as option? Well, I'm not interested, that's all I'm saying.


As for games as ME, DA or The Witcher, I like being put in front of dilema's, something that makes me "squish my brain", something that makes me think what's the best decision because there is no perfect win, something that makes me take into account pros and cons.....

Modifié par Feanor_II, 29 juin 2012 - 10:56 .

[AndreasShepard]

Allan Schumacher wrote...

ph34r-X wrote...

I mean look at the refusal ending. Why can't we have that in the refusal ending, but if you're readiness is too low you get the current refusal ending.

I'm just asking this to facilitate discussion, so I'm not trying to pour salt on the wound or anything (my that sounds ominous...).


I see your opinion come up, and I often state my opinion and perspective.  I want to try something a bit different.  Many feel "why can't we have that in the refusal ending?"

Which is a fair enough point.  The writers/designers could have easily allowed that to be an option (what happens in the game is literally whatever they put in).


Just to be direct though:  Why should this be an option for the refusal ending.  Or even more generally, why should there be an ending that contains the following:

Shepard Lives, reapers defeated by conventional means, Geth/ EDI lives, Shepard walks off into the sunset with love interest.

I'm just asking to hear your thoughts on the subject.  Open question to others that feel the same way.

Because I have a lot of love for the character and seeing him live will always be preferable to watching him die.  Plus Mass effect is unique in that people have a lot of say in how the story develops, not in every instance obviously but you can't help but feel a certain sense of onwership to this character that you don't feel when you're watching a movie or playing a non choice based game.

[Zu Long]

NPH11 wrote...

Zu Long wrote...

NPH11 wrote...

I understand why people would want that "perfect" ending, but how would Bioware establish a conventional military victory without taking huge leaps in logic, leaps very much similar to the ones people have been complaining about since the game was released?

The easier option would just be the ability to choose Destroy without sacrificing Edi and the Geth, since the Crucible's inability to distinguish between them and Reapers has never made sense.

Agreed.

And honestly, I'm not sure I like that they just made the relays "damaged" in the new endings. I think losing the relays can be that sacrifice element that Bioware so demands every ending have, you just need to establish that galactic civilization isn't totally screwed by it. The original endings didn't do this and instead of establishing it, they reversed it and made the relays "damaged" instead of destroyed.

See, that I would have been okay with since the Relays were Reaper-tech anyway, and it would have lent an interesting dynamic to the galaxy as a whole following the war. However, given that Liara's mom had been theorizing about the Asari building their own relays a pretty decent chunk of time before the second game, it seems probable that the galaxy could still have recovered, albeit more slowly.

[Karimloo]

Feanor_II wrote...

Karimloo wrote...

Feanor_II wrote...

Yup..... and also unicorns, rainbows and a rain of cookies/candy.

Now seriously, I like things as they are.... I think that as I grow older I fell less empathy for "perfect" endings, a certain degree of sacrifice/toll is necesary for me to find an ending beliable and satisfactory.

For example, in DA:O I found much more satisfactory the ending with "William" (the guy in left <---) and the "Ultimate sacrifce" than "Nerdanel"'s "Dark Ritual" ending

Being older makes you more cynical?

Dude, I'm 19 years old. How old are you? 60?

Just because you're older doesn't mean you SHOULD become cynical and brooding. You can still be light hearted.

I just don't get the distaste for happiness and love. It's like people aren't pissed off with whats going on in Real Life we have to **** up our games - which we use for pleasure and enjoyment. This feels like the Romantic/Neoclassical era all over again. I think the west is on it's period right now.

If you ask....... I'm 30.... and I don't consider myself cynical, though I might have a bit of that,.... Hell! my friends and job collegues think of me that I'm a kind person even though sometimes I take things at heart too much!!!!!!

But you know? Certain degree a tragedy..... I like that on stories, I think that the best stories are Greek myths (the original ones, not the Hollywoo/Disney Light versions), and those are FULL of tragedy, combining almost equally darkness and light, heroism and misery, glory and ruin..... Heracles fullfilled his 12 jobs, but before he killed his wife and sons and finally was "betrayed" by her 2nd wife. Theseus abandoned the woman he loved.....
I consider The Silmarillion Tolkien's top work (sadly it's too raw) and nothing equals Turin's or Fëanor's arcs.
And more recently, A Song of Ice & Fire...... what can I say, if there is people who haven't read the books or seen HBO's adaptations I won't spoil it here.

Happy ending as option? Well, I'm not interested, that's all I'm saying

Just because YOU don't want it , doesn't mean others should not have it. You simply choose your cynical endings. And we get our happy ending.

You have every right not to choose the happy one, what sucks for us, is that we don't even GET a happy ending for those who want one. We all have to enjoy, essentially, Chocolate, when some want Strawberry.

[C9316]

I for one like the bittersweet element to the endings, sure I would have liked a reunion with the LI and sure they could have been better but as a whole I'm ok with my favorite ending (destroy).

[Temper_Graniteskul]

norcalgamer wrote...

I don't want this. There needs to be some kinda of consequences. If there wasn't one, then even more people would choose destroy.

Why does that matter? There aren't a finite number of each ending to go around; everyone can have as many as they like and of whatever type. The game's never going to pop up a window with 'You tried to choose Synthesis, but more people liked Destroy so that's what you get now.'

There was no shortage of players who gamed their ME2 playthroughs to achieve various endings, including those where pretty much only Shepard (and sometimes not even Shep) survived. Being able to save everyone didn't mean that people were forced into it, only that people who wanted to be able to do that were actually able to.

[NPH11]

Zu Long wrote...

NPH11 wrote...

Zu Long wrote...

NPH11 wrote...

I understand why people would want that "perfect" ending, but how would Bioware establish a conventional military victory without taking huge leaps in logic, leaps very much similar to the ones people have been complaining about since the game was released?

The easier option would just be the ability to choose Destroy without sacrificing Edi and the Geth, since the Crucible's inability to distinguish between them and Reapers has never made sense.

Agreed.

And honestly, I'm not sure I like that they just made the relays "damaged" in the new endings. I think losing the relays can be that sacrifice element that Bioware so demands every ending have, you just need to establish that galactic civilization isn't totally screwed by it. The original endings didn't do this and instead of establishing it, they reversed it and made the relays "damaged" instead of destroyed.

See, that I would have been okay with since the Relays were Reaper-tech anyway, and it would have lent an interesting dynamic to the galaxy as a whole following the war. However, given that Liara's mom had been theorizing about the Asari building their own relays a pretty decent chunk of time before the second game, it seems probable that the galaxy could still have recovered, albeit more slowly.

FTL still had a long way to go in the ME Universe. The Reapers operated on FTL and were quicker than any ships the galaxy had to offer. They made if from the edge of the Galaxy in Arrival to Earth within 6 months, they even had time to rip the Batarians apart in the process. That's a very quick journey compared to what we've been shown before.

Hell, just add a cutscene during the ending showing the Alliance or whomever experimenting with newer, faster, FTL drives. Show tests and stuff. This implies that the galaxy is not doomed, but is innovating new technology to solve their problems. That's what I would've done.

It also would've served to show the various races not only working together as a military force, but scientifically as well. Reinforicing how we've actually united the galaxy and that the unity will last.

Modifié par NPH11, 29 juin 2012 - 11:05 .

[VonVerrikan]

With the other two games ending on such a positive/happy note, not giving us the possibility of one for ME3 is a tragedy. A fully happy ending should have been possible albeit incredibly hard to obtain.
ME3 feels like we're railroaded into choosing nothing but bad outcomes, and that doesn't even have the same flavor as the rest of the series does. Why change it in the last second? These ending choices are bad, they were bad, and they'll always remain this way. In the future I hope they remember positive outcomes are just as likely as negative ones, and the fans deserve those.

[Iakus]

Karimloo wrote...

Feanor_II wrote...

Happy ending as option? Well, I'm not interested, that's all I'm saying

Just because YOU don't want it , doesn't mean others should not have it. You simply choose your cynical endings. And we get our happy ending.

You have every right not to choose the happy one, what sucks for us, is that we don't even GET a happy ending for those who want one. We all have to enjoy, essentially, Chocolate, when some want Strawberry.

Agreed.
Isn't that the entire point of having multiple endings?  So we, the player, can decide which we find "best" not "least bad"?  Because with ME3, that's what I'm stuck doing, picking the ending I think sucks least.  And that's with EC.

[Spanish Inquisition]

Feanor_II wrote...

Just because YOU don't want it , doesn't mean others should not have it. You simply choose your cynical endings. And we get our happy ending.

You have every right not to choose the happy one, what sucks for us, is that we don't even GET a happy ending for those who want one. We all have to enjoy, essentially, Chocolate, when some want Strawberry.

QFT.

Cynical endings? Play renegade, let the council, Wrex and ME2 crew die. Kill the Rachni, don't oppen Grunt's tank. If you do this thing you'll get that "dark" ending that suits your playthrough.

Want to live with LI and have a beer with Garrus? Play Paragon, save everyone, unite everyone, fight for everyone.

It makes sense. Fight for your ending, make decisions, bare the consequences. That is what Mass effect was supposed to be about.

Modifié par eltiojul, 29 juin 2012 - 11:08 .

[blue water]

norcalgamer wrote...

I don't want this. There needs to be some kinda of consequences. If there wasn't one, then even more people would choose destroy.

Life tells us this over and over.  Golden moments of clarity and purpose, though mythical to most, are worth pursuing.

IMHO

[Uncle Jo]

ph34r-X wrote...

 Simple paragon ending. 

Shepard Lives, reapers defeated by conventional means, Geth/ EDI lives, Shepard walks off into the sunset with love interest.

Is this basicly what we all want? 

The refusal ending with a good outcome would have basically meant that BW aknowledged that their artistic vision of the endings is not what we've imagined and gave us the option to reject it. No way in hell it could happen.

But you still have the right to disagree and shoot the brat in the face (distressing but you lose), so it's still something. And the beacon scene was for me the best one. By far.

Modifié par Uncle Jo, 29 juin 2012 - 11:11 .

[Memnon]

I'm tired of hearing how happy endings are lowbrow, or unrealistic, or not artistic ... I think the "sacrifice your life to save the universe/galaxy/mankind/etc" is a more tired cliche than any possible happy ending, to say nothing of the Deus Ex Machina (which is the paragon of artistic-ness and uniqueness right?) When did we get to the point that endings have to be sad and bittersweet for it to be a good story?

Modifié par Stornskar, 29 juin 2012 - 11:16 .

[Father_Jerusalem]

Simply put, if there is one ending that is objectively better than all the other endings - Shepard lives, LI reunion, crew all survives, Geth and EDI survive, space unicorns, etc - then you are, by definition, actively punishing players for picking any other ending.

That was the problem that ME2 had. It was too easy, through simple normal gameplay, to get the best ending that people have to actively TRY to purposefully mess things up if they want to kill off a certain character.

You can sit there and say "well if you don't want it, you don't have to pick it" all you want, but the simple fact of the matter is that if it exists, I would be stupid for picking anything OTHER than it. I would be purposefully making the ending of my game WORSE by not picking the Disney ending.

Right now we can have debates til the cows come home about which ending is "best". If the Disney ending is in the game, the debate's over. There is no reason to pick anything OTHER than Destroy. Ever. Again.

[Anduin The Grey]

ph34r-X wrote...

 Simple paragon ending. 

Shepard Lives, reapers defeated by conventional means, Geth/ EDI lives, Shepard walks off into the sunset with love interest.

Is this basicly what we all want? 

Maybe Disney are hiring right now?

[Memnon]

Anduin The Grey wrote...

ph34r-X wrote...

 Simple paragon ending. 

Shepard Lives, reapers defeated by conventional means, Geth/ EDI lives, Shepard walks off into the sunset with love interest.

Is this basicly what we all want? 

Maybe Disney are hiring right now?

I would take Pixar storytelling a million times before this  ...

[NOD-INFORMER37]

I have to ask, why does everyone bring up Disney anytime a "happy ending" thread comes up?

"Disney happy" and the "happy" ending ppl are looking for are two very different things lmao

[Eradyn]

Allan Schumacher wrote...

ph34r-X wrote...

I mean look at the refusal ending. Why can't we have that in the refusal ending, but if you're readiness is too low you get the current refusal ending.

I'm just asking this to facilitate discussion, so I'm not trying to pour salt on the wound or anything (my that sounds ominous...).


I see your opinion come up, and I often state my opinion and perspective.  I want to try something a bit different.  Many feel "why can't we have that in the refusal ending?"

Which is a fair enough point.  The writers/designers could have easily allowed that to be an option (what happens in the game is literally whatever they put in).


Just to be direct though:  Why should this be an option for the refusal ending.  Or even more generally, why should there be an ending that contains the following:

Shepard Lives, reapers defeated by conventional means, Geth/ EDI lives, Shepard walks off into the sunset with love interest.

I'm just asking to hear your thoughts on the subject.  Open question to others that feel the same way.

I know I'm late to the discussion, but I'd like to add my thoughts to the subject.

For me, the key is giving purpose to choices made throughout the game.  Giving purpose to replaying the game.  Giving purpose to purchasing future DLC.  So long as the endings are set as they are, replayability is questionable and there is little purpose in playing any future DLC as the outcomes can no longer be affected.  Indeed, we can get all the points we need to get the "perfect" ending (whatever perfect is) without any additional DLC.  So any additional DLC would be meaningless from this perspective, unless (for example) the Refusal ending were expanded in the future to provide a variety of possible outcomes based upon one's score.  Doing this gives us an incentive to purchase the DLC or to replay the game.  Get a higher score, have a better chance at a better Refusal outcome (again, for example).

Now, one of those outcomes could be the "rainbows and sunshine" type result suggested by the OP.  There could be a whole spectrum of outcomes.  There could be personalized outcomes based on choices made during the course of the game.  This greatly enriches and expands the game's potential and utility, gives it greater life, and encourages people to invest more time and money into it.  It gives people a purpose and reason to continue experiencing the Mass Effect universe.  They might not have a high enough score on the first playthrough for one of the better Refusal outcomes, but maybe on the next playthrough, with the right choices and a high enough score...

And ultimately, why might there possibly be such an ending implemented? Because just having the possibility of having a happier ending makes people, in general, happy, satisfied, and content.  Because having the possibility of a variety of outcomes means a far more fleshed-out and enriched game, a game with far more depth and replayability.  That means happy customers, which means a better company image, which means more money in the end for you guys.  More options is always better than fewer (or no) options, and happier customers are always better than scorned ex-fans.

Modifié par Eradyn, 29 juin 2012 - 11:29 .

[C9316]

Oh and not sure if anyone remembers, but in the first two games you're constantly told that the war with the Reapers would definitely be costly, which is why I think the bittersweet ending works best the war cost alot but civilization can be rebuilt. Imo a super happy ending would trivialize entire fight.

[Eradyn]

C9316 wrote...

Oh and not sure if anyone remembers, but in the first two games you're constantly told that the war with the Reapers would definitely be costly, which is why I think the bittersweet ending works best the war cost alot but civilization can be rebuilt. Imo a super happy ending would trivialize entire fight.

Due to the way the game is designed, currently, such a "super happy ending" would already have required many great sacrifices to achieve.

And I have no problem with that.

[Memnon]

C9316 wrote...

Oh and not sure if anyone remembers, but in the first two games you're constantly told that the war with the Reapers would definitely be costly, which is why I think the bittersweet ending works best the war cost alot but civilization can be rebuilt. Imo a super happy ending would trivialize entire fight.

The war was costly - the Batarians are nearly extinct, Palaven, Earth, and Thessia are ravaged and razed ... killing off Shepard and destroying the relays are like crapping on the ashes and calling it art