1199 réponses à ce sujet

[Iakus]

[quote]chemiclord wrote...

Multiple happy endings are possible.

For a given value of "happy"
[/quote]

Each option posed takes something different from Shepard... either the synthetic life he/she fought for, his/her own humanity, or his/her very life.

Multiple "happy" endings where everyone you care about lives, and there's no significant damage to your monkey sphere makes the decision moot.   At that point, you really ARE doing nothing more than "picking a color", which is something that was supposedly oh-so-horrible in the ending originally produced. 

[/quote]

Depends.

If the base "win" is winning with a galaxy in shambles, and the more you are willing to sacrifice, the better off the galaxy as a whole becomes.  Shepard could be anything from a legendary martyr to king of a graveyard.  The trick would be finding the balance each player wants.  For example, how screwed up would the galaxy be if Shepard, LI and Normandy crew all lived and were together at the end?

ATM, virtually all endings demand Shepard's death.  And the one which Shepard does live carries a terrible price of its own. 

[Naugi]

chemiclord wrote...

The theme of "if you do everything right, everything will come out roses" was pretty strong in the first two games, to throw that out in the third is jarring.

Important to note that 1 and 2 have to end well or there is no 3. You won't get very far in a trilogy if everyone dies at the end of part 1.

It's not that uncommon for a trilogy to end less than ideally, even after previous installments have ended well. Best example I can think of is the first 3 alien movies, where Ripley successfully defeats the alien menace pretty much single handed 2 times in a row and yet in the third ends up dead in a pool of molten lead.

[Tim_H]

I felt the extended ending made the shepard death much more palatable. Here he is, making a huge sacrifice. It felt right. I'm satisfied.

[Uncle Jo]

Anduin The Grey wrote...

I know you about as well as you know the space troll you referred to, or the writers for that matter, not very well obviously. Unless you know something nobody else does, why don't you ask instead of stating your opinion as fact?

You're quite the eloquent one, don't you ?

I'm expressing my opinion and not stating it as fact. And if you thought the contrary, then deal with it. I couldn't care less about your opinion. You took from my post only what you wanted and made it subject to irony.

And I still remember you that I wasn't discussing with you. This exchange is over.

Modifié par Uncle Jo, 30 juin 2012 - 01:25 .

[Anduin The Grey]

Startroll has spoken

[NOD-INFORMER37]

Kildin_of_the_Volus wrote...

Father_Jerusalem wrote...

Simply put, if there is one ending that is objectively better than all the other endings - Shepard lives, LI reunion, crew all survives, Geth and EDI survive, space unicorns, etc - then you are, by definition, actively punishing players for picking any other ending.

That was the problem that ME2 had. It was too easy, through simple normal gameplay, to get the best ending that people have to actively TRY to purposefully mess things up if they want to kill off a certain character.

You can sit there and say "well if you don't want it, you don't have to pick it" all you want, but the simple fact of the matter is that if it exists, I would be stupid for picking anything OTHER than it. I would be purposefully making the ending of my game WORSE by not picking the Disney ending.

Right now we can have debates til the cows come home about which ending is "best". If the Disney ending is in the game, the debate's over. There is no reason to pick anything OTHER than Destroy. Ever. Again.

To the OP:
No.  That is not what we all want.  See above for details.

I get what he means, but if they added a happy ending that requires alot of work to get (like they should've done) then no one would be making their game "worse" by going with whatever other ending is available to them. Nor should they feel "stupid" for it. If I had to go with any of the original endings because I didnt meet the requirements for the happy one, then so be it. That is how [my] Shepard's adventure came to be, I can live with that. Should everyone else suffer because you cant? 

The fact that no matter what we do throughout the entire series gets us even close to a happy ending, really ticks ppl off, for MANY reasons. Especially those who've been doing their best to try and achieve that ending.  

I'm still not seeing any justifiable reason for depriving a happy ending as an option. 

Modifié par NOD-INFORMER37, 30 juin 2012 - 01:14 .

[chemiclord]

iakus wrote...
Depends.

If the base "win" is winning with a galaxy in shambles, and the more you are willing to sacrifice, the better off the galaxy as a whole becomes.  Shepard could be anything from a legendary martyr to king of a graveyard.  The trick would be finding the balance each player wants.  For example, how screwed up would the galaxy be if Shepard, LI and Normandy crew all lived and were together at the end?

Then you're not asking for a "happy" ending at all; because personally a galaxy in shambles with your crew all safe and sound honestly would be a far greater punishment than letting them all die.

NOD-INFORMER37 wrote...

I'm still not seeing any justifiable reason for depriving a happy ending as an option. 

 

On the contrary, there have been plenty of justifiable reasons.  You simply refuse to acknowledge them.  That's your problem, not ours.

Modifié par chemiclord, 30 juin 2012 - 01:20 .

[KevShep]

Nyxeris wrote...

No, I don't. I just want a reunion after choosing destroy with high EMS. Conventional victory is impossible, so getting out with the "I just pulled a perfect Suicide Mission on the Reapers" is just far-fetched.

What about the BIG gun TIM was talking about in ME2 that conventionaly took out a reaper?

[Anduin The Grey]

Have just spent the last 15 mins trying to find a post I really liked but couldn't find it at all. Paraphrasing a great post from memory, if there was a super happy ending it'd be pointless having any other ending.

[Vespervin]

It'd be nice if you had the maximum amount of EMS and you picked the Destroy? ending, everybody lives and it's a happy ending.

[Father_Jerusalem]

Delaney wrote...

Kildin_of_the_Volus wrote...

Father_Jerusalem wrote...

Simply put, if there is one ending that is objectively better than all the other endings - Shepard lives, LI reunion, crew all survives, Geth and EDI survive, space unicorns, etc - then you are, by definition, actively punishing players for picking any other ending.

That was the problem that ME2 had. It was too easy, through simple normal gameplay, to get the best ending that people have to actively TRY to purposefully mess things up if they want to kill off a certain character.

You can sit there and say "well if you don't want it, you don't have to pick it" all you want, but the simple fact of the matter is that if it exists, I would be stupid for picking anything OTHER than it. I would be purposefully making the ending of my game WORSE by not picking the Disney ending.

Right now we can have debates til the cows come home about which ending is "best". If the Disney ending is in the game, the debate's over. There is no reason to pick anything OTHER than Destroy. Ever. Again.

To the OP:
No.  That is not what we all want.  See above for details.

Sorry ... but the emphasized part is just ... plain stupid. Why not complaining about the happy ending in ME2 then? Or about every game which presents different endings and one of them is a happy ending?

Hi. I have complained about the happy ending in ME2.

Perhaps, before calling me stupid, you should ask those kinds of questions.

[LinksOcarina]

ph34r-X wrote...

 Simple paragon ending. 

Shepard Lives, reapers defeated by conventional means, Geth/ EDI lives, Shepard walks off into the sunset with love interest.

Is this basicly what we all want? 

How? Due to war assets and attritcion?

[corporal doody]

ph34r-X wrote...

 Simple paragon ending. 

Shepard Lives, reapers defeated by conventional means, Geth/ EDI lives, Shepard walks off into the sunset with love interest.

Is this basicly what we all want? 

no..that is THE DISNEY ENDING....that is the RETAKER ending.

[Vespervin]

KevShep wrote...

Nyxeris wrote...

No, I don't. I just want a reunion after choosing destroy with high EMS. Conventional victory is impossible, so getting out with the "I just pulled a perfect Suicide Mission on the Reapers" is just far-fetched.

What about the BIG gun TIM was talking about in ME2 that conventionaly took out a reaper?

That was from an unknown race and it happened millions/billions of years ago. And clearly the Mass Accelerator  didn't win the war.

(I'm speculating that the Mass Accelerator that done that was created by the same race that created the Catalyst)

[Father_Jerusalem]

Temper_Graniteskul wrote...

Father_Jerusalem wrote...

Simply put, if there is one ending that is objectively better than all the other endings - Shepard lives, LI reunion, crew all survives, Geth and EDI survive, space unicorns, etc - then you are, by definition, actively punishing players for picking any other ending.

That was the problem that ME2 had. It was too easy, through simple normal gameplay, to get the best ending that people have to actively TRY to purposefully mess things up if they want to kill off a certain character.

You can sit there and say "well if you don't want it, you don't have to pick it" all you want, but the simple fact of the matter is that if it exists, I would be stupid for picking anything OTHER than it. I would be purposefully making the ending of my game WORSE by not picking the Disney ending.

Right now we can have debates til the cows come home about which ending is "best". If the Disney ending is in the game, the debate's over. There is no reason to pick anything OTHER than Destroy. Ever. Again.

So instead, players who want a happy ending should be punished because other people might metagame? There's a difference between saying 'I would like the option to have this, and choose it if I like' and 'I'll always pick a certain thing if it's offered, and you need to prevent me from being able to do so.'

There are different definitions of 'winning' the game - the argument between which of the three colour-coded endings is proof of that. The idea that even the OP's ending would be considered 'objectively better' by a plurality of players is something I find suspect, given the chatter on the boards. Whatever your choices might be, I guarantee you that there are others out there that wouldn't pick Destroy even if it had the qualities in the OP; the pro-Synthesis threads seem to have more than a few. By your logic no one would have ever picked the 'bad' ending in ME2, and yet they did. People will work for the endings they want.

But they can't if the option isn't there. I'd like a happy ending to pick from - an additional option. It doesn't take away from the choices of others to have it there, any more than having the Widow takes away from the Incisor.

If the option isn't there, you're not being "punished". If the option is there and I choose something that is definitively LESS than that option, I am being "punished".

You cannot be punished for not having a happy ending because there never WAS a happy ending. They never included one in the game and then remove it in the EC, it was simply not the direction BioWare chose to go with the way they wanted to end the game.

I'm not being "punished" for not having a billion dollars. Because I never HAD a billion dollars. 

[Iakus]

chemiclord wrote...

iakus wrote...
Depends.

If the base "win" is winning with a galaxy in shambles, and the more you are willing to sacrifice, the better off the galaxy as a whole becomes.  Shepard could be anything from a legendary martyr to king of a graveyard.  The trick would be finding the balance each player wants.  For example, how screwed up would the galaxy be if Shepard, LI and Normandy crew all lived and were together at the end?

Then you're not asking for a "happy" ending at all; because personally a galaxy in shambles with your crew all safe and sound honestly would be a far greater punishment than letting them all die.

Bingo!

Like I said, "for a given value of 'happy'" 

Shepard becoming a martyr and turning the galaxy into a Blisstonia makes them happy.

Some say "Screw the galaxy.  Shep and LI can repopulate"

And there's a list of possibilities between the two.  Different factors make for different "happy endings" for different players.

But the range of possibilities we are actually offered is quite narrow. 

[Aaleel]

Heck no. I don't think I could even accept a perfect ending at the end of this.

Shepard said it perfectly in ME2 "Saving everyone only happens in vids, there will be sacrifices."

[KevShep]

Vespervin wrote...

KevShep wrote...

Nyxeris wrote...

No, I don't. I just want a reunion after choosing destroy with high EMS. Conventional victory is impossible, so getting out with the "I just pulled a perfect Suicide Mission on the Reapers" is just far-fetched.

What about the BIG gun TIM was talking about in ME2 that conventionaly took out a reaper?

That was from an unknown race and it happened millions/billions of years ago. And clearly the Mass Accelerator  didn't win the war.

(I'm speculating that the Mass Accelerator that done that was created by the same race that created the Catalyst)

Iam saying that it IS there! it is possible!

[Father_Jerusalem]

Uncle Jo wrote...

Father_Jerusalem wrote...

Putting a "canon" ending in the Mass Effect games is, frankly, doing it wrong. They've said all along that because of all the variables, there is no such thing as a "canon" ending. The goal of the series was to STOP the Reapers - not necessarily destroy them. Any of the endings (even Refuse) can be "canon" because they all (eventually) achieve that goal. That's why we can debate which is right, and which is wrong.

If, for instance, Control had put a timeline on how long Shepard can Control the Reapers - for the next, say, 100,00 years, but after that they'll break free... wouldn't it be worse than Synthesis and Destroy? Wouldn't people be less inclined to pick Control over the others? It's the exact same situation (in reverse) as this Disney ending wish fulfillment.

Personally, I love Control. It was the first one I picked on my Renegade Shep and it turns me into an immortal Space Batman with an army of Reapers at my command. It's AWESOME.

Using "canon" was a bad move from me. My bad. And yes you're right about the fact that the goal was to STOP the Reapers.

But frankly speaking, during the the three games Control was always foreshadowed as bad and not an option with good outcome (Saren, TIM, David Archer in Overlord, rogue Prothean faction...).

As for synthesis, well we've fought from the beginning to the end for preserving the diversity of the galaxy (Genophage, Peace between Quarians and Geth...) and for a peaceful coexistence between the different races (synthetics and organics). Not to forcibly change them. Every species has its right to evolve the way it should. IMO the green ending seems to directly contradicts this.

I also found Shep's speech (particularly the Renegade one) in the Control Ending pretty awesome, even if if it'll never be my choice. It was very well executed. Probably the best one, with the Refusal ending (I liked its simplicity).
The real downside to the control ending (aside from the "death" of Shep, which is also included in Synthesis and Destroy with low EMS), is that the Reapers are still hanging around and nothing guarantees that he won't become a real one (like the Starbrat)...

But isn't that what makes it so great, though? That we can sit here and have these discussions about which endings we feel are the best, or justifiable, or which we would never be able to do? If there was ONE ending that was clearly the best, all we would do would be to talk about it instead of what makes the other endings so great, or so terrible.

By not putting one SUPER ending in, what BioWare has done is foster discussion. That's the true ending of the ME trilogy, to me. That we'll keep talking about it.

[Vespervin]

KevShep wrote...

Vespervin wrote...

KevShep wrote...

Nyxeris wrote...

No, I don't. I just want a reunion after choosing destroy with high EMS. Conventional victory is impossible, so getting out with the "I just pulled a perfect Suicide Mission on the Reapers" is just far-fetched.

What about the BIG gun TIM was talking about in ME2 that conventionaly took out a reaper?

That was from an unknown race and it happened millions/billions of years ago. And clearly the Mass Accelerator  didn't win the war.

(I'm speculating that the Mass Accelerator that done that was created by the same race that created the Catalyst)

Iam saying that it IS there! it is possible!

Well sure it is possible. But if it didn't work for the race that created the weapon, why would it work for us?

[Iakus]

Father_Jerusalem wrote...

But isn't that what makes it so great, though? That we can sit here and have these discussions about which endings we feel are the best, or justifiable, or which we would never be able to do? If there was ONE ending that was clearly the best, all we would do would be to talk about it instead of what makes the other endings so great, or so terrible.

Actually, the debates seem to be which ending is the least bad. Not quite the same thing...

[KevShep]

Vespervin wrote...

KevShep wrote...

Vespervin wrote...

KevShep wrote...

Nyxeris wrote...

No, I don't. I just want a reunion after choosing destroy with high EMS. Conventional victory is impossible, so getting out with the "I just pulled a perfect Suicide Mission on the Reapers" is just far-fetched.

What about the BIG gun TIM was talking about in ME2 that conventionaly took out a reaper?

That was from an unknown race and it happened millions/billions of years ago. And clearly the Mass Accelerator  didn't win the war.

(I'm speculating that the Mass Accelerator that done that was created by the same race that created the Catalyst)

Iam saying that it IS there! it is possible!

Well sure it is possible. But if it didn't work for the race that created the weapon, why would it work for us?

Iam just stating that it is possible. Therefor they could have done something with that rather then just say that it impossible when clearly it is not, hard yes but possible.

[Anduin The Grey]

KevShep wrote...

Vespervin wrote...

KevShep wrote...

Nyxeris wrote...

No, I don't. I just want a reunion after choosing destroy with high EMS. Conventional victory is impossible, so getting out with the "I just pulled a perfect Suicide Mission on the Reapers" is just far-fetched.

What about the BIG gun TIM was talking about in ME2 that conventionaly took out a reaper?

That was from an unknown race and it happened millions/billions of years ago. And clearly the Mass Accelerator  didn't win the war.

(I'm speculating that the Mass Accelerator that done that was created by the same race that created the Catalyst)

Iam saying that it IS there! it is possible!

Off topic slightly and completely hypothetical, the moon of Klendagon had at least one if not more pyramidal type mountains/hills that many games ago I caught myself wondering if that/those were the super weapon(s) that killed the Reaper but had just become covered over millions of years by natural rock.

[Father_Jerusalem]

iakus wrote...

Father_Jerusalem wrote...

But isn't that what makes it so great, though? That we can sit here and have these discussions about which endings we feel are the best, or justifiable, or which we would never be able to do? If there was ONE ending that was clearly the best, all we would do would be to talk about it instead of what makes the other endings so great, or so terrible.

Actually, the debates seem to be which ending is the least bad. Not quite the same thing...

That's a problem with the debaters, not the debates.

[NOD-INFORMER37]

chemiclord wrote...

NOD-INFORMER37 wrote...

I'm still not seeing any justifiable reason for depriving a happy ending as an option. 

 

On the contrary, there have been plenty of justifiable reasons.  You simply refuse to acknowledge them.  That's your problem, not ours.

I've seen and acknowledged many reasons, just none justifiable enough to actually leave out the happy ending as an option.