1199 réponses à ce sujet

[Xenite]

You know 100% there is no more Shepard trilogies. The entire premise of ME3 is the end of Shepards story.

ME3 was the end of the ME world completely, it's ruined beyond repair lore wise.

[shodiswe]

There is no way you can fidn the war assets needed for a conventional victory unless Bioware adds reinforcements for a differetn galaxy who happens to be very advaced technologically and miliaristic. And with an extreme hatred for AI catalysts...

[Dragoonlordz]

Xenite wrote...

You know 100% there is no more Shepard trilogies. The entire premise of ME3 is the end of Shepards story.

ME3 was the end of the ME world completely, it's ruined beyond repair lore wise.

Do not think so. 50,000 years in the future allows for more than enough time to pass for technology and etc to create new beginnings.

[Master Shiori]

Allan Schumacher wrote...


At the same time, due to the nature of being a tragedy Shepard effectively has plot armor.  While he can die at the end of ME2, it kills the story there and is provided more as an easter egg as opposed to a genuine ending.  Mass Effect is Shepard's story, so the possibility of Shepard dying prior to its conclusion is zero.

Every protagonist has plot armor until the end of their respective story.

But the point here isn't that Shepard couldn't die before. The problem is that previous 2 games were also tragic and bleak, yet, we had the option to come out alive with limited loses and by keeping people that matter to us alive.

Now, granted, ME3 is much darker then it's predecesors, and with good reason, but expectations have been created. People could get a "happy" ending before, if they played their cards right, and they, naturally, expected this to be the case in ME3, although the stakes and sacrifices would be higher this time around.

Now, "destroy" is as close to a perfect ending as you can get, except for the whole "EDI and Geth die", which is a problem. Not because you are forced to make a sacrifice (we've made plenty of those before), but, rather, because of the way this sacrifice is presented to the player. The whole thing is literally dropped on the player out of the blue. Worse still, it's delivered by an entity that we've never met until that point, and which we have no reason to believe. 
Had this been foreshadowed a bit by other characters in the game, the whole thing might be easier to accept. But as it is, it feels like this sacrifice was thrown into the game simply because "destroy" was looking too good up until that point and developers needed something to make the players think twice and not have "destroy" become the default ending for everyone.

[Subject M]

shodiswe wrote...

It would invalidate all other endings or the reason to build the crusible...

They would have to associate other endings with other costs and the crucible could of course play a part in other endings.

[Dragoonlordz]

shodiswe wrote...

There is no way you can fidn the war assets needed for a conventional victory unless Bioware adds reinforcements for a differetn galaxy who happens to be very advaced technologically and miliaristic. And with an extreme hatred for AI catalysts...

Don't give them ideas next up will be people saying "We could of won! We just had to open a portal to a parallel universe and bring assets from there!". This conventional victory nonsense is just another type of IDT style theory, lots of people making things up in order to create their own fictional endings.

Modifié par Dragoonlordz, 30 juin 2012 - 09:36 .

[warlock22]

Dragoonlordz wrote...

warlock22 wrote...

Dragoonlordz wrote...

Not going to happen.

If want such a victory then you need to rely on fanfic, that is your stories how you want to tell them.

The game however is Bioware's story and how they want to tell it. Like I said not a candy store where you pick and choose what you want removed or added to the 'goodie bag' prior to buying it, in this case a  game after left the store after already bought it as a product already.

Thats a cute post, oh and about it being BW story, Casey Hudson has always said that ME is about "your" story not "a" story look up his quotes. And I like how you said product, because BW keeps hiding behind their "artistic vison" about the endings. But once you buy it, it is no longer art it is a product, a product that you are trying to appeal to fans. So if this is want fans want and are asking for because they dont like what they got, then why not give it to them, especially if most of the fans wont ever buy a game from you again, because that show much the story and characters mean to them. But then again I'm talking to someone who liked the original ending (the 5 %) so I'm just wasting my time arguing with you.

You are getting into territory best you avoid else this thread will get locked. The story is Biowares, you played it with some flexibility they allow within the predefined variables they was willing to give you during their story. Sticking with artistic integrity just means keeping their story not replacing it with your fanfic alternative. Nothing more and nothing less. Here is another quote for you one that is newer and more relevant from them "Cannot please everyone" plus another "Extended Cut represents the definitive version of the endings to the Mass Effect trilogy". All your doing right now is setting yourself up for a major disappointment.

The way you word things is... interesting. But like I said I'm done arguing with you.

Now back to the topic

[warlock22]

Subject M wrote...

shodiswe wrote...

It would invalidate all other endings or the reason to build the crusible...

They would have to associate other endings with other costs and the crucible could of course play a part in other endings.

Hey Subject M its been awhile! Also agreed

[Master Shiori]

Persephone wrote...

warlock22 wrote...

Persephone wrote...

No.

If I want schmaltz and kitsch, I'll watch a Rom Com or a Japanese Cartoon. I neither want nor need it in something like Mass Effect.

Then dont choose this ending

What if the "High EMS & Refusal lead to this bunnies & roses ending" was true?

Would I HAVE TO have low EMS (As in screwing up everything in ME3) in order to avoid it? Yeah, that would be great....

Not really. 

You'd still have the option of picking one of the 3 other endings. 

[Atherus]

www.youtube.com/watch

Just posting this, because Archingeia says all what is in my mind in regard to ME 3 and because my english is not that good, he can describe it better than me.
Just bring 2 hours of time with you :happy: 

[Dragoonlordz]

Subject M wrote...

shodiswe wrote...

It would invalidate all other endings or the reason to build the crusible...

They would have to associate other endings with other costs and the crucible could of course play a part in other endings.

Does not work like that, it is not balance the other three endings with this fanfic type one. It would have to be balance this fanfic version with the other three. As it stands right now that cannot happen because the consequences of the other three are vast while conventional victory is negligible. So unless those who ask for CVic up their consequences to make as hard a choice as the other three then it does not even deserve to be thought about adding to game.

Such loss or consequence would have to be as high as human species all killed off in order to win and save the other races or emotionally every single companion ever had in the trilogy all die to make the choice as hard to pick by the player. As noone here is willing to do such then it should never happen. Losing a few more fleets, losing millions more lives but all races surviving and no reaper threat remaining is not even close to same level of consequence as the remaining choices. As it stands right now in EC the consequence balance is about right betwen the four choices if include reject.

Either way Cvic is never going to happen.

A good game does not just give you choices, it gives you 'hard' choices which the player struggles to choose.

Modifié par Dragoonlordz, 30 juin 2012 - 10:19 .

[Subject M]

warlock22 wrote...

Subject M wrote...

shodiswe wrote...

It would invalidate all other endings or the reason to build the crusible...

They would have to associate other endings with other costs and the crucible could of course play a part in other endings.

Hey Subject M its been awhile! Also agreed

Hello. you have PM.

[Persephone]

Master Shiori wrote...

Persephone wrote...

warlock22 wrote...

Persephone wrote...

No.

If I want schmaltz and kitsch, I'll watch a Rom Com or a Japanese Cartoon. I neither want nor need it in something like Mass Effect.

Then dont choose this ending

What if the "High EMS & Refusal lead to this bunnies & roses ending" was true?

Would I HAVE TO have low EMS (As in screwing up everything in ME3) in order to avoid it? Yeah, that would be great....

Not really. 

You'd still have the option of picking one of the 3 other endings. 

What if I wanted to pick Refusal anyway? I'd have that Disney ending there, it effectively means that whoever does not want a Disney ending but refuses to have low EMS cannot pick Refusal.

[Ryzaki]

...You could say the same about Synthesis. Or hell even Control (since AI Shepard seems to just be Shepard without his/her humanity).

Modifié par Ryzaki, 30 juin 2012 - 09:58 .

[LogicGunn]

I want this, but I'd want it to be very hard to get.

[Sire Styx]

I can't understand why some people have an intense dislike for anything happy.
Some of the reasons seem to be like "No, I don't like happy endings, so you cannot have one. If we had a happy ending I couldn't pick any others and I would be forced to pick the happy one."
You are not forced to pick one ending over another. If the happy ending meant you needed 100% completion of the game AND following a specific dialouge route AND choosing a specific end choice, then ther should be no problem.

I don't see how a happy ending is less 'mature' than a bleak or bittersweet ending. Surely it shows lack of maturity if you feel the need to act like a spoilt child, saying everyone should 'have' to have a certain ending and act condescendly to those who would prefer the option of another. Of course, real life isn't always happy, adnwe can't get everything we want. But this is a game and, again, no one is forcing you to take the happy route. It would just be nice if we had more endings.

Similarly, I would like to see a total bad ending. The worst so far is reject, but it might be good to have one where the reapers kill everyone again and again. It doesn't mean you would be forced to choose it. It would't invalidate your endings. Just because everyone dies in my ending, doesn't mean you ending where only one person survived is any less mature. The only way you could complain is if you want to have the bleakest ending possible as if unhappiness is some kind of trophy or something :S

[billywaffles]

ph34r-X wrote...

 Simple paragon ending. 

Shepard Lives, reapers defeated by conventional means, Geth/ EDI lives, Shepard walks off into the sunset with love interest.

Is this basicly what we all want? 

I am 500% sure that if bioware would ever do that, there would still be people angry because the ending still wasn't happy enough.

[Xilizhra]

I'm beginning to be convinced that Synthesis is in fact the happy ending. The only downside is Shepard's death, which from an objective standpoint isn't that much sadder than, say, that one kid on Grissom who was shot by Cerberus for not being on the list.

[Blc949]

Nope. We were never ever lead to believe we could go toe-to-toe with the reapers. Would make the first 2 games feel unnecessary (some would say they already are but this would cement it).

The original endings sucked, but conventional victory seems dumb when every galactic empire has failed for billions of years especially when we see the last empire was superior to us in many ways.

[Subject M]

Dragoonlordz wrote...

Subject M wrote...

shodiswe wrote...

It would invalidate all other endings or the reason to build the crusible...

They would have to associate other endings with other costs and the crucible could of course play a part in other endings.

Does not work like that, it is not balance the other three endings with this fanfic type one. It would have to be balance this fanfic version with the other three. As it stands right now that cannot happen because the consequences of the other three are vast while conventional victory is negligible. So unless those who ask for CVic up their consequences to make as hard a choice as the other three then it does not even deserve to be thought about adding to game.

Such loss or consequence would have to be as high as human species all killed off in order to win and save the other races or emotionally every single companion ever had in the trilogy all die to make the choice as hard to pick by the player. As noone here is willing to do such then it should never happen. Losing a few more fleets, losing millions more lives but all races surviving and no reaper threat remaining is not even close to same level of consequence as the remaining choices. As it stands right now in EC the consequence balance is about right betwen the four choices if include reject.

Either way Cvic is never going to happen.

A good game does not just give you choices, it gives you 'hard' choices which the player struggles to choose.

I think we are talking about different things here.

[element eater]

Allan Schumacher wrote...

Shepard Lives, reapers defeated by conventional means, Geth/ EDI lives, Shepard walks off into the sunset with love interest.

I'm just asking to hear your thoughts on the subject.  Open question to others that feel the same way.

well i think that it should be possible to destroy the reapers without loosing the geth or edi 

as to LI YESSSS!!!! this is all i realy wanted from the ending. Happy or otherwise, Shep and co should to be togethor at the end of it all regardless of what happened  

 

Modifié par element eater, 30 juin 2012 - 10:29 .

[warlock22]

Sire Styx wrote...

I can't understand why some people have an intense dislike for anything happy.
Some of the reasons seem to be like "No, I don't like happy endings, so you cannot have one. If we had a happy ending I couldn't pick any others and I would be forced to pick the happy one."
You are not forced to pick one ending over another. If the happy ending meant you needed 100% completion of the game AND following a specific dialouge route AND choosing a specific end choice, then ther should be no problem.

I don't see how a happy ending is less 'mature' than a bleak or bittersweet ending. Surely it shows lack of maturity if you feel the need to act like a spoilt child, saying everyone should 'have' to have a certain ending and act condescendly to those who would prefer the option of another. Of course, real life isn't always happy, adnwe can't get everything we want. But this is a game and, again, no one is forcing you to take the happy route. It would just be nice if we had more endings.

Similarly, I would like to see a total bad ending. The worst so far is reject, but it might be good to have one where the reapers kill everyone again and again. It doesn't mean you would be forced to choose it. It would't invalidate your endings. Just because everyone dies in my ending, doesn't mean you ending where only one person survived is any less mature. The only way you could complain is if you want to have the bleakest ending possible as if unhappiness is some kind of trophy or something :S

Yup, this^

[Dragoonlordz]

Sire Styx wrote...

I can't understand why some people have an intense dislike for anything happy.
Some of the reasons seem to be like "No, I don't like happy endings, so you cannot have one. If we had a happy ending I couldn't pick any others and I would be forced to pick the happy one."
You are not forced to pick one ending over another. If the happy ending meant you needed 100% completion of the game AND following a specific dialouge route AND choosing a specific end choice, then ther should be no problem.

I don't see how a happy ending is less 'mature' than a bleak or bittersweet ending. Surely it shows lack of maturity if you feel the need to act like a spoilt child, saying everyone should 'have' to have a certain ending and act condescendly to those who would prefer the option of another. Of course, real life isn't always happy, adnwe can't get everything we want. But this is a game and, again, no one is forcing you to take the happy route. It would just be nice if we had more endings.

Similarly, I would like to see a total bad ending. The worst so far is reject, but it might be good to have one where the reapers kill everyone again and again. It doesn't mean you would be forced to choose it. It would't invalidate your endings. Just because everyone dies in my ending, doesn't mean you ending where only one person survived is any less mature. The only way you could complain is if you want to have the bleakest ending possible as if unhappiness is some kind of trophy or something :S

You cannot pull the maturity card when you do not have the maturity to accept this is how Bioware wanted the story, plot and trilogy to end.

Modifié par Dragoonlordz, 30 juin 2012 - 10:31 .

[Dragoonlordz]

Subject M wrote...

Dragoonlordz wrote...

Subject M wrote...

shodiswe wrote...

It would invalidate all other endings or the reason to build the crusible...

They would have to associate other endings with other costs and the crucible could of course play a part in other endings.

Does not work like that, it is not balance the other three endings with this fanfic type one. It would have to be balance this fanfic version with the other three. As it stands right now that cannot happen because the consequences of the other three are vast while conventional victory is negligible. So unless those who ask for CVic up their consequences to make as hard a choice as the other three then it does not even deserve to be thought about adding to game.

Such loss or consequence would have to be as high as human species all killed off in order to win and save the other races or emotionally every single companion ever had in the trilogy all die to make the choice as hard to pick by the player. As noone here is willing to do such then it should never happen. Losing a few more fleets, losing millions more lives but all races surviving and no reaper threat remaining is not even close to same level of consequence as the remaining choices. As it stands right now in EC the consequence balance is about right betwen the four choices if include reject.

Either way Cvic is never going to happen.

A good game does not just give you choices, it gives you 'hard' choices which the player struggles to choose.

I think we are talking about different things here.

We are not unless what you said is not what you mean't.

[warlock22]

Blc949 wrote...

Nope. We were never ever lead to believe we could go toe-to-toe with the reapers. Would make the first 2 games feel unnecessary (some would say they already are but this would cement it).

The original endings sucked, but conventional victory seems dumb when every galactic empire has failed for billions of years especially when we see the last empire was superior to us in many ways.

You have to remember, in this cycle there is diversity unlike the last cycle and Shepard got the whole galaxy to untie unlike the last cycle. Javik even says this to you, saying that even though they were more advanced, they were to simplified and unorganized.