Aller au contenu

Photo

Can we all agree upon this?


1199 réponses à ce sujet

#976
PrimeOfValor

PrimeOfValor
  • Members
  • 456 messages

Ozida wrote...

I just don't get some people, to be honest, when talking about happy end option (NOT a single end choice). Some people state that they don't feel it would be "right" to end ME story with a happy end, and sometimes it's their only argument. Well, some of other fans, including myself, feel that it would be "right" to have a true "sickening-sweet" ending. So how come our feelings are worse than yours? Heck, why do I even need to prove and explain my desire for a happy end as it is a crime against "artistic integrity"? :)

And for those who rudely tell us to go and watch some Disney... Well, go and watch some Titanic or something if you seek for a depressing, real-life end. ;)


I don't get that either, I mean this is a game of choice, right? Image IPB  

If they don't want a happy end then don't pick it, simple. Image IPB

Plus I'm a sucker for happy endings! Image IPB

Modifié par bigmass41, 02 juillet 2012 - 02:58 .


#977
Nerevar-as

Nerevar-as
  • Members
  • 5 375 messages

Alushadow wrote...

ph34r-X wrote...

 Simple paragon ending. 

Shepard Lives, reapers defeated by conventional means, Geth/ EDI lives, Shepard walks off into the sunset with love interest.

Is this basicly what we all want? 


we can agree buy by doin so
bioware will hurt the "artistic integrity " of the ho so bad story they have created
not to mention the end is probably stolen from another game
but god forbid you cannot hurt artistic integrity since a stolen end could be called "Art"


Probably? You haven´t played Deus Ex?

#978
vallore

vallore
  • Members
  • 321 messages

BiO_MaN wrote...

No offense, but most of the people who are saying stuff like "I want to escape from the real world into this fantasy rainbows and bunnies land" are coming off as immature. A world doesn't have to be perfect, with no death, no sacrifice, no dark themes, etc to be immersing and meaningful. In fact, it is the exact opposite.


No offense, but no one asked that, either. Claiming such only shows the lack of inherent merit of the argument against Shepard surviving: If one needs to create a false or heavily distorted premise about what others want to criticize their goals, then the criticism is mistaken and false, at best, and at worse is suspicious of being intellectually dishonest.

Wanting for Shepard to have the option to survive and reunite with her surviving companions, (or even preferring that option), is not the same as wanting victory without the possibility of sacrifice. Anyone that wanted such as you claim would not even have played the game in the first place, as you encounter sacrifice aplenty during the rest of the game. Likewise, preferring a darker, unavoidable doom is not a matter of maturity, either.

#979
Landon7001

Landon7001
  • Members
  • 768 messages
game rant has an article confirming via bioware that shepard lives in destroy breath scene and there is hope for a li reunion, so i guess we got what we wanted

#980
PinkysPain

PinkysPain
  • Members
  • 817 messages

ph34r-X wrote...

Bio_man said
No offense, but most of the people who are saying stuff like "I want to escape from the real world into this fantasy rainbows and bunnies land" are coming off as immature.

Well yes of course ... better than using ad hominems though.

Modifié par PinkysPain, 02 juillet 2012 - 03:44 .


#981
vallore

vallore
  • Members
  • 321 messages

Dragoonlordz wrote...

It is their story this is how they wanted it to end, you merely played a role within the allowed parameters of their story. You can end your own story in your own imagination or within the confines of the choices they allowed. Write your own fan fic and you can end it how you want in your own words but this does not mean should be cut and pasted into the current game. Your argument is pointless, it is no different than "I do not like how Phantasy Star 4 where Alys dies and neither do most people" does not mean so retcon and remove her dying scene. It is their story and if they want it to end with major consequences for the galaxy due to it being based on a galactic war then that is what should be regardless of whether you wanted happy ever after hills alive with sound of music.


I would remember that it was also their story when they decided to cut out Shepard’s trial that so many expected to be at the beginning of ME3. Why did so many complain about it then? Where they wrong, too?

It is Bioware’s story, true. But the player is also invited into participating, within the parameters of the story. This creates logical and reasonable expectations. If, however, the parameters are sudden and unexpectedly altered, then the player – the participant – looses what she feels she had reasons to expect. Their expectations may have been reasonable, but are no longer part of the story. At worse, this can result in something unenjoyable.

Players have the right to complain if they feel their expectations are sound and fair and to lobby for change if they so see fit. And, of course, Bioware is who ultimately decides to act or not to act upon such requests and complains, like it is the players who ultimately decide to buy or not to buy their products.

Personally, I prefer invested customers that lobby for changes that they see as desirable, than customers that simply move away when something doesn’t fit their particular tastes.

#982
Dragoonlordz

Dragoonlordz
  • Members
  • 9 920 messages

vallore wrote...

Dragoonlordz wrote...

It is their story this is how they wanted it to end, you merely played a role within the allowed parameters of their story. You can end your own story in your own imagination or within the confines of the choices they allowed. Write your own fan fic and you can end it how you want in your own words but this does not mean should be cut and pasted into the current game. Your argument is pointless, it is no different than "I do not like how Phantasy Star 4 where Alys dies and neither do most people" does not mean so retcon and remove her dying scene. It is their story and if they want it to end with major consequences for the galaxy due to it being based on a galactic war then that is what should be regardless of whether you wanted happy ever after hills alive with sound of music.


I would remember that it was also their story when they decided to cut out Shepard’s trial that so many expected to be at the beginning of ME3. Why did so many complain about it then? Where they wrong, too?

It is Bioware’s story, true. But the player is also invited into participating, within the parameters of the story. This creates logical and reasonable expectations. If, however, the parameters are sudden and unexpectedly altered, then the player – the participant – looses what she feels she had reasons to expect. Their expectations may have been reasonable, but are no longer part of the story. At worse, this can result in something unenjoyable.

Players have the right to complain if they feel their expectations are sound and fair and to lobby for change if they so see fit. And, of course, Bioware is who ultimately decides to act or not to act upon such requests and complains, like it is the players who ultimately decide to buy or not to buy their products.

Personally, I prefer invested customers that lobby for changes that they see as desirable, than customers that simply move away when something doesn’t fit their particular tastes.


What part was altered do you think? The only reason Shepard could survive the first two titles is because it was designed as a trilogy from the beginning. The fact that he does die in ME2 both at the start and potentially along with entire crew and companions at end shows that they were never playing this invincible hero theory. He remained alive because it was a trilogy thats all. The trilogy is over they can now lay him or her to rest if they wished. They were never against killing him. The amount of death of companions and characters through out the series shows that they never intended it to be a happy go lucky theme game series. The choices still have an impact too, a very big one both through the game and even at the end shown now in EC. Choices do matter still even if you do not get the exact choice you want.

I actually do not mind having a cutscene, where you make your stand and all the fleets and worlds go down in blaze of glory fighting to bitter end but I do have major objection to reject equals win situation. Not only because like said throws the balance of consequence right out the window but also because it makes a mockery of the themes of the series and this game itself. Both regarding strength of Reapers through entire trilogy stated cannot win conventionally and secondly the theme of the game itself. Lastly it also urinates on the efforts both in time and resources, money and hours spent to create both the original endings and EC plus integrity of a creator of the story they wished to create. Their story as it always has been like said, with them given you some freedom within the boundries of the overall plot they wanted to create and always within set parameters. For own personal, individual endings just use fan fiction thats what it is there for; stories based in the universe different to the one the creator wished to create..

Modifié par Dragoonlordz, 02 juillet 2012 - 04:36 .


#983
Eradyn

Eradyn
  • Members
  • 2 636 messages
ME3 already has a sickeningly-sweet happy ending. Nothing can top synthesis, seriously; they're practically vomiting rainbows and cupcakes. The only way it could get any happier and more cliche would be if they all broke out into rounds of kumbaya. That said, I'm fine with that. There are other, darker and grittier endings to choose from. I would welcome, however, an expanded Reject ending that took into account what the player has accomplished across the game(s) and reflected that in its outcome. By virtue of what it is, it would automatically be one of the darkest endings, requiring the most sacrifice, even if it resulted in victory with Shep and crew alive. I feel it would also be the most thematically true to the series.

Things have changed since ME1. Sovereign's corpse has been studied, broken down, and reverse-engineered by all the various citadel species. The geth can be a potentially powerful ally, one that had a close relationship with the reapers (heretics in ME1/ME2 and the rest in ME3) and can provide unique perspective and technologies. With future DLC, one could acquire more powerful allies or technologies, which might help justify the possibility of an unconventional conventional victory. The Reject ending is, I believe, most well-suited to such expansion and expression of variables selected throughout the trilogy.

#984
PinkysPain

PinkysPain
  • Members
  • 817 messages

Dragoonlordz wrote...
What part was altered do you think? The only reason Shepard could survive the first two titles is because it was designed as a trilogy from the beginning. The fact that he does die in ME2 both at the start and potentially along with entire crew and companions at end shows that they were never playing this invincible hero theory. He remained alive because it was a trilogy thats all. The trilogy is over they can now lay him or her to rest if they wished. They were never against killing him. The amount of death of companions and characters through out the series shows that they never intended it to be a happy go lucky theme game series.

Red shirts don't count ... only one character we had emotional investment in had to die ... up till the end of ME2.

The choices still have an impact too, a very big one both through the game and even at the end shown now in EC. Choices do matter still even if you do not get the exact choice you want.

We get an author self insert giving us choices he knows we dislike just to boost his ego (the troll ending in EC pretty much proves this beyond reasonable doubt to me, they just wanted to put the boot in one last time). A cornucopia of unsatisfying choices ...

Kill Shepard, kill half his companions, kill half the populations ... but let all the races survive, let the structure of the universe (mass relays) survive, but above all let me convincingly vanquish my enemies on my own terms.

Modifié par PinkysPain, 02 juillet 2012 - 04:46 .


#985
Dragoonlordz

Dragoonlordz
  • Members
  • 9 920 messages

PinkysPain wrote...

Dragoonlordz wrote...
What part was altered do you think? The only reason Shepard could survive the first two titles is because it was designed as a trilogy from the beginning. The fact that he does die in ME2 both at the start and potentially along with entire crew and companions at end shows that they were never playing this invincible hero theory. He remained alive because it was a trilogy thats all. The trilogy is over they can now lay him or her to rest if they wished. They were never against killing him. The amount of death of companions and characters through out the series shows that they never intended it to be a happy go lucky theme game series.

Red shirts don't count ... only one character we had emotional investment in had to die ... up till the end of ME2.

The choices still have an impact too, a very big one both through the game and even at the end shown now in EC. Choices do matter still even if you do not get the exact choice you want.

We get an author self insert giving us choices he knows we dislike just to boost his ego (the troll ending in EC pretty much proves this beyond reasonable doubt to me, they just wanted to put the boot in one last time). A cornucopia of unsatisfying choices ...

Kill Shepard, kill half his companions, kill half the populations ... but let all the races survive, let the structure of the universe (mass relays) survive, but above all let me convincingly vanquish my enemies on my own terms.


Relate it to the lyrics of Annie song, Sun will come out tomorrow. Very uplifting and positive song much like that ending you could say. May be raining today races all culled but sun will be out tomorrow in the next cycle. :P

Regardless, I stick with my original comment which made above in last post regarding how I feel about this.

Modifié par Dragoonlordz, 02 juillet 2012 - 04:59 .


#986
Caenis

Caenis
  • Members
  • 166 messages

Dragoonlordz wrote...

Caenis wrote...

Dragoonlordz wrote...

Seriously not going to happen.


It's happened before in games...people enjoyed those endings and the many different outcomes, it can and will happen again. Nobody is telling Bioware to change it, they're not rioting saying give us a happy ending. They're merely stating what they wished they had or would have liked to see, while accepting that they didn't.

I ENJOY the EC, and I also ENJOYED the original ending. But does that mean I wouldn't have liked to see more? It's no different than people who still want to have plot holes filled, etc. etc. It's NICE to be able to talk about these things. It's sad to see people rejecting the very idea that people even felt anything but the opposite of them...that...omg how dare people wish they had seen hard sacrifice pay off for the hero....


Allen was not asking for DLC ideas, he was just discussing the topic as fan of the series. People are getting their hopes up and setting themselves up for disappointment based on fact he merely asked a question. He even said so himself was just curious as a fellow fan. We also have direct quotes saying won't actually happen so it is worth keeping expectations in check.


I wasn't referring to DLC ideas...I was stating my opinion as a fellow fan, and putting my feelings out there as to why it's not wrong to want a happy ending. No...the ending isn't going to be changed, I know that, I'm not asking for that or setting up an argumenative case for why it should be changed... but what I'm saying is, It's not wrong to talk about what I would have liked to have seen, but didn't and state a case as for why I would have liked to have seen it.

EDIT: mmm, I think I get what you're saying. Just a reminder. But I'm pretty sure we don't really need a reminder, and we're just skipping passed the semantics and using should, could have, etc. as an easier way to say what we wanted to see/would have liked to see, but didn't.

I mean, raise your hand if anyone in this room actually thinks there is hope of Bioware adding such an ending or any new ending after already providing the EC? 

(My hand is down).

So I think we're pretty aware that the purpose of the conversation is to share our feelings of it only. Not to start another protest or adding wishes that we think might be granted.

Modifié par Caenis, 02 juillet 2012 - 05:29 .


#987
saber00005

saber00005
  • Members
  • 87 messages
I would like a little more happy ending for destroy w/ shepard alive. Besides that, I'd be pretty happy!

#988
vallore

vallore
  • Members
  • 321 messages

Dragoonlordz wrote...
What part was altered do you think? The only reason Shepard could survive the first two titles is because it was designed as a trilogy from the beginning.

A trilogy doesn’t need to have the same character in all three games.

What would stop them of killing Shepard in the end of ME1 and having another character carrying the torch into ME2?
Perhaps a certain <insert player chosen name> Lawson. A Cerberus operative, that has to recruit a team to deal with the collectors and dies during the suicide mission, only to be substituted in ME3 by <insert player chosen name> Vega a young Alliance lieutenant with a knack to get things done, no matter what.

Still you would get the same story, basically. Yet I don’t doubt many would find it less appealing. After all, to find that  - - no matter what you do - your character is doomed, is not the kind of story many who bought ME games were looking for, obviously.

The fact that he does die in ME2 both at the start and potentially along with entire crew and companions at end shows that they were never playing this invincible hero theory.

And the fact that she dies and comes back, and that she can pull the suicide mission off without losing a single member of the team, tells us she is no common Jane, and was never about a story of a “lesser” hero necessarily doomed to die. There is a very important difference between not being able to loose and not being able to survive or win. Most people that want a “happier,” more victorious ending do not want an assured victory or survival no matter what; they want a good, clear chance of obtaining that, and they have a firm ground to support their expectations.

He remained alive because it was a trilogy thats all. The trilogy is over they can now lay him or her to rest if they wished. They were never against killing him.

Shepard takes enormous risks, beat impossible odds, and walks away; again and again and again. By design or by chance, it becomes clear that, as TIM put about Shepard: “you’re unique.” Shepard can be expected to have a chance of accomplishing what others cannot. And that includes a clear survival chance... or of finding another way other than submission to the star-child. It is not about not being possible to die, or loose; it is about being possible to live, and win.

The amount of death of companions and characters through out the series shows that they never intended it to be a happy go lucky theme game series..

Happy go lucky? And who wants that, seriously?

Very few want a rainbow and fluffy pink unicorns ending, sparkling with pink pixie dust ™ and the musical theme of the” Sound of Music” playing. This is entirely the creation of the minds of those who oppose even the possibility of a less dark ending being available for others players, in parallel with the ones they personally like.

The choices still have an impact too, a very big one both through the game and even at the end shown now in EC. Choices do matter still even if you do not get the exact choice you want.

The problem is that I didn’t get, even remotely, what I wanted or expected. I suspect that is the case with many others.



I actually do not mind having a cutscene, where you make your stand and all the fleets and worlds go down in blaze of glory fighting to bitter end but I do have major objection to reject equals win situation. Not only because like said throws the balance of consequence right out the window but also because it makes a mockery of the themes of the series and this game itself. Both regarding strength of Reapers through entire trilogy stated cannot win conventionally and secondly the theme of the game itself. Lastly it also urinates on the efforts both in time and resources, money and hours spent to create both the original endings and EC plus integrity of a creator of the story they wished to create. Their story as it always has been like said, with them given you some freedom within the boundries of the overall plot they wanted to create and always within set parameters. For own personal, individual endings just use fan fiction thats what it is there for; stories based in the universe different to the one the creator wished to create..

I personally think, (and I have stated as much elsewhere), that what many that want a conventional victory want is not so much a victory on those terms but rather to have a chance at victory at all. The “victories” we currently have require more than a simple, “lay of Shepard’s life” to be accomplished. They require her body, mind and soul and still the winning is meagre. With such victories, who fears defeat?

As for the theme, I’m afraid I don’t agree. Sacrifice was a secondary theme in ME1 and ME2. That is why you can beat Sovereign in ME1 final game without loosing Shepard or any of her companions in the battle, or why you can save everyone and their fish in the Suicide mission in ME2:

It is not what these games are essentially about.

Even in ME3 Sacrifice is not the only theme to take front row. Remember when, at the Defence Comity, you are asked about how to defeat the reapers? Or what themes you can focus during Shepard final speeches? Or the recurring events going on during ME3 that are not about Sacrifice?

So no. It wasn’t always like that. It is like that in the ending, but not elsewhere. The expectations of something different are sound, logical and reasonable. It is the absence of an ending that addresses this problem that is thematically inconsistent, and fails to take into account a good part of the audience. It is not something that should be limited to the realm of fan fiction to be solved, anymore than some thought the trial issue was. It is up to Bioware to decide how to address the problem, as it is up to the audience to address how Bioware handled the problem.

#989
ph34r-X

ph34r-X
  • Members
  • 157 messages
Yeah if you people don't want an ending go read hamlet or Romeo and Juliette you sad saps :)

Modifié par ph34r-X, 02 juillet 2012 - 07:04 .


#990
Arkevilex

Arkevilex
  • Members
  • 658 messages

ph34r-X wrote...

 Simple paragon ending. 

Shepard Lives, reapers defeated by conventional means, Geth/ EDI lives, Shepard walks off into the sunset with love interest.

Is this basicly what we all want? 


Oh Bioware....don't you see how simple it could have been :(

#991
Dragoonlordz

Dragoonlordz
  • Members
  • 9 920 messages

vallore wrote...
-snip-

It is not something that should be limited to the realm of fan fiction to be solved, anymore than some thought the trial issue was. It is up to Bioware to decide how to address the problem, as it is up to the audience to address how Bioware handled the problem.


Your hand waving at this point, the trilogy was Shepards story but if had been 2 part story he could of been killed in second game just like now, if was one single game not trilogy he could of been killed off in that. Where you pulled that "could of had different protaganist in every game" is simply hand waving as far as I am concerned, a slight movement of the goal posts as a form of distraction. My point being he was killed in ME2, he could of been killed in ME2 your companions could all die in ME2 and some had to die in ME1, this is repeated in ME3 with some have to die and Shepard potentially dying (you had option of alive in one ending).

Your making the mistake of just because the trilogy is based on Shepard and his role in the war that it means he can survive anything including the finale. If finale was ME2 they could of killed him off then and might have same with ME1 if one was the only game and was not going to be a trilogy. He was never a god, never mean't to be invincible and only was required to survive till the end of the trilogy which is where his story ends. It is like a TV series, the main character is alive through entire series after series but in the final series he dies, it is not because all previous series makes him always immortal and always win, it is just to keep the money rolling in until the series is cancelled or they end it at which point they kill off the character.

The only reason they gave you the opportunity to save him in ME2 was due to always being a trilogy intended and Shepard was always intended to be the main character of the trilogy. As for the always win, no that was not a theme of the series, he had the potential to win because that was part one and two of a trilogy. They wanted him merely to survive into the third game because it was a trilogy, they never once said he would survive the third. Consider their ability to kill him off in previous titles once forced and second time if did not get everything right an example of foreshadowing. Letting the player know he is not god, he is not invincible and that he could die of which ME3 pre-release information backed up the idea of there will be extreme loss and no happy ever after due to scale of threat plus taking on board the end of Shepards story a longside this darker than previous games plot emphasis.

As for your last couple sentences left in quote you are right it is upto Bioware and they have given you their answer both in the original endings and the EC of which then followed up with further pointing it out by saying the EC was definitive final endings. What you do as a fan is up to you but yes it is up to Bioware how to craft their stories and they have done so and said they acknowledge they were not going to please everyone but that they are pleased with EC and that is their final stance on the matter.

Who knows maybe you just really believe Shepard is unbeatable god, but no where in the series can I see that. The theme according to you is vastly different to how I seen it all the way through the trilogy. The only reason Shepard even lived through two games was simply due to he was required to be in the finale of the trilogy and no more than that. It was not a theme of can always win, it was a requirement of it being a trilogy with one lead until the end. He was kept alive to finish his role nothing more and nothing less. His role ended the moment the third game ended.

Modifié par Dragoonlordz, 02 juillet 2012 - 08:49 .


#992
saber00005

saber00005
  • Members
  • 87 messages

ph34r-X wrote...

Yeah if you people don't want an ending go read hamlet or Romeo and Juliette you sad saps :)


I think Macbeth tops all. But even still. They had a detailed conclusion to it. Leaving Shepard in broken rubble and ending it right there, doesn't bring closure. Your love interest knows your alive, why not show a brief scene of them re-uniting? They departed on a pretty sad note with the LI desperately trying to reach for Shepard, but were cut off short. If Shepard survives, let it be the ALTEMATE AWESOME ENDING! Image IPB

I don't believe there should be another DLC for this. They should just label this as a "Fix" for the extended cut or a patch to update some content (which all game developers do). I believe this would bring better closure for ME3, especially the end of Shepard if that’s the case. I will be missing Shepard and his Crew deeply in the future of Mass effect. I feel it’s a mistake to write him off.
 Besides that, I was pleased with the ending. Much better than the first which made me rage a bit..
I hope this is constructive feedback. Image IPB

Modifié par saber00005, 02 juillet 2012 - 08:09 .


#993
Krunjar

Krunjar
  • Members
  • 609 messages
I would not mind it. Except it might cheapen the other endings to the point where they are considered sub-par. I believe that since bioware has made it's choice it should stick to it's guns. The EC was a big concession. Ending alteration does not happen often no matter how bad it is. Because it encourages this side of things everyone chimes in wanting their own "personal" best ending. And others argue that this would cheapen their apparently more profound endings (Honestly Hero dies is just as cliched and boring as everyone lives these days imho)

So in short i too wished for a happy ending but now that it isn't here it should not be tacked on. However I think a happy ending would have been more thematically correct for mass effect. ME was a game where you could if you where careful and thorough survive despite impossible odds. That they decided to drop 10 tonnes of Nihilism on our heads in the last 10 minutes or so feels a bit out of place but I am satisfied that the galaxy was saved.

#994
Raging Nug

Raging Nug
  • Members
  • 1 148 messages
I find it interesting that some of people who responded to Allan on the first couple pages cited narrative cohesion as the reason they didn't like it. That term doesn't mean what I believe they think it means.

Even more interesting were the posts that tried comparing the ME3 ending to other games. It's become expected that the hero wins, survives, gets the girl (or boy), and rides off into the sunset. It's become an expected ending, so much so that apparently now people are upset when it doesn't happen.

Modifié par Raging Nug, 02 juillet 2012 - 08:09 .


#995
Doom972

Doom972
  • Members
  • 110 messages
No, I can't agree on this. A story like this can't have a simple happy ending.
If we only have it only as an option, then it makes all other option useless.

I'm glad Bioware didn't do this in the EC despite people demanding it.

#996
CulturalGeekGirl

CulturalGeekGirl
  • Members
  • 3 280 messages

Raging Nug wrote...

I find it interesting that some of people who responded to Allan on the first couple pages cited narrative cohesion as the reason they didn't like it. That term doesn't mean what I believe they think it means.

Even more interesting were the posts that tried comparing the ME3 ending to other games. It's become expected that the hero wins, survives, gets the girl (or boy), and rides off into the sunset. It's become an expected ending, so much so that apparently now people are upset when it doesn't happen.


This is completely the opposite for people who read modern speculative fiction, and I think that's the disconnect. For people who don't read, who only play certain very limited types of video games, the ending seems fresh and new. For anyone who reads a lot of modern SF, it seems tired, boring, and cliche. I keep having to post this, but here's a funny and insightful essay on the omnipresence of grimness in modern Science Fiction by multi-hugo-winning author Elizabeth Bear.

For me, I'd be fine with the ending of Mass Effect if it'd been advertised from the start. "A Grimdark world of tomorrow where genocide is the only means of survival!" it could have said on the tin. I might not have bought it then, true, but I might have still. If ME1 had ended on the same kind of choice, one that was put forward by authorial fiat and forced Shepard to commit something monstrous to survive, I wouldn't have rushed out and bought the ME2 CE, that's for sure. I would have bought it for normal price during a Steam sale someday, maybe.

The problem with the ending is that Mass Effect actually allowed people to hope and feel good about themselves for the entire game, until the end. At the end, most of the people who hope and feel good about themselves are people comfortable with shrugging off genocide.

That's quite a switcheroo to pull in the last five minutes.

Modifié par CulturalGeekGirl, 02 juillet 2012 - 08:21 .


#997
Sundance31us

Sundance31us
  • Members
  • 2 647 messages
I understand the desire for a Hollywood ending, but cannot support it.

#998
Dragoonlordz

Dragoonlordz
  • Members
  • 9 920 messages

CulturalGeekGirl wrote...

Raging Nug wrote...

I find it interesting that some of people who responded to Allan on the first couple pages cited narrative cohesion as the reason they didn't like it. That term doesn't mean what I believe they think it means.

Even more interesting were the posts that tried comparing the ME3 ending to other games. It's become expected that the hero wins, survives, gets the girl (or boy), and rides off into the sunset. It's become an expected ending, so much so that apparently now people are upset when it doesn't happen.


This is completely the opposite for people who read modern speculative fiction, and I think that's the disconnect. For people who don't read, who only play certain very limited types of video games, the ending seems fresh and new. For anyone who reads a lot of modern SF, it seems tired, boring, and cliche. I keep having to post this, but here's a funny and insightful essay on the omnipresence of grimness in modern Science Fiction by multi-hugo-winning author Elizabeth Bear.

For me, I'd be fine with the ending of Mass Effect if it'd been advertised from the start. "A Grimdark world of tomorrow where genocide is the only means of survival!" it could have said on the tin. I might not have bought it then, true, but I might have still. If ME1 had ended on the same kind of choice, one that was put forward by authorial fiat and forced Shepard to commit something monstrous to survive, I wouldn't have rushed out and bought the ME2 CE, that's for sure. I would have bought it for normal price during a Steam sale someday, maybe.

The problem with the ending is that Mass Effect actually allowed people to hope and feel good about themselves for the entire game, until the end. At the end, most of the people who hope and feel good about themselves are people comfortable with shrugging off genocide.

That's quite a switcheroo to pull in the last five minutes.


Everything written these days is cliché, it has all been done before in one form or another.

Even the word cliché is cliché at this stage. :P

Modifié par Dragoonlordz, 02 juillet 2012 - 08:26 .


#999
Zelto

Zelto
  • Members
  • 121 messages

ph34r-X wrote...

 Simple paragon ending. 

Shepard Lives, reapers defeated by conventional means, Geth/ EDI lives, Shepard walks off into the sunset with love interest.

Is this basicly what we all want? 


Pretty much as an option

Personnally I would like to see the crucible removed entirly, the starchild consigned forever to the 'really really bad ideas bin' and the war to actually be FOUGHT!

#1000
JShepppp

JShepppp
  • Members
  • 1 607 messages
That'd make it too easy. I'd like the ending to have a bit of sacrifice, otherwise people would all get the same ending.