164 réponses à ce sujet

[Galiredon]

...I heard you don't wanna be killed by synthetics. So I made some synthetics to kill you every 50k years so you won't be killed by synthetics.

This was one of the biggest problems I had with the endings and although I thought the Extended Cut were an improvement they didn't address this core issue for me.

To the people who like the new endings, what do you think about this issue before/after the Extended Cut?

[sH0tgUn jUliA]

Insane AI is insane.

[Super-Model]

Except that Starchild's logic isn't as flawed as it was before

[iSpider-Man]

y'all have the same pic... sick!!

[digitalcraft]

I thought the extra info covered it ok. The Catalyst wasn't made to do that. It was made to make peace, but as synthetics tend to do, it developed the standard machine "peace through death" philosophy similar to the Terminator series, 2001, and I think a few other movies.

[GenericEnemy]

lol, I could've sworn you were spamming your own thread for a second.

[iggy4566]

Super-Model wrote...

Except that Starchild's logic isn't as flawed as it was before

No it's logic is even more flawed.

[CrutchCricket]

Now it's more like:
Yo dawg, I heard you didn't want to be killed by synthetics so you created me, a synthetic to protect you from synthetics. I killed your ass and stuck your brain in a cuttlefish then killed every organic every 50000 years from then on so they won't be killed by synthetics.

[mad825]

digitalcraft wrote...

I thought the extra info covered it ok. The Catalyst wasn't made to do that. It was made to make peace, but as synthetics tend to do, it developed the standard machine "peace through death" philosophy similar to the Terminator series, 2001, and I think a few other movies.

No, you mean the standard plot for every Final Fantasy game. Right?

Modifié par mad825, 29 juin 2012 - 03:32 .

[D24O]

Yo dawg, your thread is about to get locked.

[vasametropolis]

iggy4566 wrote...

Super-Model wrote...

Except that Starchild's logic isn't as flawed as it was before

No it's logic is even more flawed.

Well considering it's supposed to be flawed now that's the point. We know he came to an extreme solution to halt the process because he didn't have the capacity to fix it otherwise. It was pretty clever of them to go this route. It was about the only way to fix it really.

Modifié par xCaptainAmazing, 29 juin 2012 - 03:32 .

[Galiredon]

D24O wrote...

Yo dawg, your thread is about to get locked.

Why do you say that?

[Geneaux486]

Galiredon wrote...

...I heard you don't wanna be killed by synthetics. So I made some synthetics to kill you every 50k years so you won't be killed by synthetics.

The problem is that this wasn't the Catalyst's logic, even before the EC.  The Reapers are techno-organic hybrids, and they essentially harvest advanced civilizations before they have the chance to create tech too powerful for them to control, not only wiping themselves out but also causing collateral damage to more primitive races.  The Catalyst's belief that this is a genuine problem is based on observing the same conflict happening repeatedly over countless cycles.  Furthermore, while individual beings are killed by the Reapers, the actual species, their memories, knowlege, and according to Legion, even their individual minds, are preserved in Reaper form, meaning that unlike death at the hands of synthetics, something does survive, which in the Catalyst's eyes makes it preferable to doing nothing.
In short, the Catalyst's logic isn't faulty, it's just cold, immoral, and barbaric, placing emphasis on the whole of a species while ignoring the value and worth of each individual person, and caring nothing for the mental and physical anguish that occurs during each extinction cycle.  It's wrong because it's evil, not because it's stupid.

[Galiredon]

xCaptainAmazing wrote...

iggy4566 wrote...

Super-Model wrote...

Except that Starchild's logic isn't as flawed as it was before

No it's logic is even more flawed.

Well considering it's supposed to be flawed now that's the point. We know he came to an extreme solution to halt the process because he didn't have the capacity to fix it otherwise. It was pretty clever of them to go this route. It was about the only way to fix it really.

Why do you say it's supposed to be flawed? Why did they harvest advanced civilizations every 50k years? Why not protect the galaxy like Shepard does in the Extended Control ending?

[Ansible]

Um... For me it makes sense now.

the Catalyst did in fact rebel against his creators. At this point it's obvious his logic may not be flawed, in the sense that the harvesting may have been a good option, but not the only option for co-existing.

In other words, the EC makes it clear that someone who suffered from the pattern created the cycle to begin with, making it flawed off the bat. It's intentional now.

[Ansible]

Galiredon wrote...

xCaptainAmazing wrote...

iggy4566 wrote...

Super-Model wrote...

Except that Starchild's logic isn't as flawed as it was before

No it's logic is even more flawed.

Well considering it's supposed to be flawed now that's the point. We know he came to an extreme solution to halt the process because he didn't have the capacity to fix it otherwise. It was pretty clever of them to go this route. It was about the only way to fix it really.

Why do you say it's supposed to be flawed? Why did they harvest advanced civilizations every 50k years? Why not protect the galaxy like Shepard does in the Extended Control ending?

Because they are victims of the pattern. See above post.

[GreyLycanTrope]

CrutchCricket wrote...

Now it's more like:
Yo dawg, I heard you didn't want to be killed by synthetics so you created me, a synthetic to protect you from synthetics. I killed your ass and stuck your brain in a cuttlefish then killed every organic every 50000 years from then on so they won't be killed by synthetics.

That's very apt, but can we fit that whole thing on a pic of Xzibit?

[Mazebook]

I will just copy/paste an updated answer from another thread

maaaze wrote...

tonnactus wrote...

GabrielK wrote...

I am the Catalyst. Conflict between organics and synthetics is inevitable. I do not wish to see organics destroyed by synthetics. Hmmm...what to do....well, I do have these Reapers just hanging around waiting for something to do....

Maybe I could have my Reapers fly into space and tell everyone to stop fighting. I'll enforce the peace if I have to. Hmmm that seems a little heavy handed, and they may not appreciate having peace enforced on them.

OK. Let's think. What else can I do....

Thinking is hard. I know, I'll just have my Reapers fly in and turn everyone into liquid goo. Kinda sucks for them but they'll be preserved forever. I'm sure they'll appreciate it.

Ooooh look, my Reapers have control of some Geth. Maybe I could tell them to stop killing their creators? Nah. I'll have them help me wipe them out. I mean preserve them.

This is the nonsensical starbrat in a nutshell.

Post like these really incline me to think that some didn´t get the ending at all. 

1. Catalyst doesn´t think like a human.
2. Catalyst was given a task to find a permanent solution in conflict.
3. Telling the Geth to stop would not stop them to rebel sometime in the future in much more powerful state.
4. Synthetics will eventually become more powerful than the reapers/organics so eventually all organics will perish.
5. Task requires organics to not be extinguished.
6. Catalyst values every organic the same.
7. Organics get preserved
8. Therefore reset every 50 000 years.

Is this concept so hard to grasp?

any questions? 

[Geneaux486]

Galiredon wrote...
Why do you say it's supposed to be flawed? Why did they harvest advanced civilizations every 50k years? Why not protect the galaxy like Shepard does in the Extended Control ending?

Well that wasn't an option at first.  The cycle had to be carried out multiple times over before there was even a force known as "reapers" that could theoretically protect anyone.  Still, the Catalyst also makes it a point to emphasize that they leave the highest points in the galaxy open after each cycle so the next race coming through can get their shot.  Maybe it's just a creature of habit.

[KingZayd]

It made it worse:

Synthetics will always destroy Organics, so Organics created a Synthetic (Starchild) to prevent Synthetics from destroying Organics. The Synthetic decided to kill the Organics (made them into a Reaper) and created the Reapers to stop Organics from creating Synthetics which would kill Organics.

[Armass81]

This is it corrected:

Yo dawg, I heard you didn't want to be killed by synthetics so you created me, a synthetic to find a solution to the problem of organics vs synthetics. As a solution I killed your ass and stuck your brain in a cuttlefish then killed  and preserved every advanced organic and synthetic every 50000 years from then on so organic life in general won't be killed by the synthetics the advanced organics make.

Happy now?

Modifié par Armass81, 29 juin 2012 - 03:49 .

[Ryzaki]

CrutchCricket wrote...

Now it's more like:
Yo dawg, I heard you didn't want to be killed by synthetics so you created me, a synthetic to protect you from synthetics. I killed your ass and stuck your brain in a cuttlefish then killed every organic every 50000 years from then on so they won't be killed by synthetics.

[Geneaux486]

KingZayd wrote...

It made it worse:

Synthetics will always destroy Organics, so Organics created a Synthetic (Starchild) to prevent Synthetics from destroying Organics. The Synthetic decided to kill the Organics (made them into a Reaper) and created the Reapers to stop Organics from creating Synthetics which would kill Organics.

That's only half of it though.  The Reapers preserve the organics, mind and body, in Reaper form before they can be killed by synthetics, which not only preserves those races, but allows them to ascend to what the Catalyst considered (before the Crucible proved it wrong) to be perfection.

[Mazebook]

KingZayd wrote...

It made it worse:

Synthetics will always destroy Organics, so Organics created a Synthetic (Starchild) to prevent Synthetics from destroying Organics. The Synthetic decided to kill the Organics (made them into a Reaper) and created the Reapers to stop Organics from creating Synthetics which would kill Organics.

Wrong! He is taking the old live out of the equation by accending them and resetting the Universe so live can evolve for the young ones.

[Armass81]

How much wood could a woodchuck chuck if a woodchuck could chuck wood?

Modifié par Armass81, 29 juin 2012 - 03:43 .