164 réponses à ce sujet

[vasametropolis]

Galiredon wrote...

xCaptainAmazing wrote...

iggy4566 wrote...

Super-Model wrote...

Except that Starchild's logic isn't as flawed as it was before

No it's logic is even more flawed.

Well considering it's supposed to be flawed now that's the point. We know he came to an extreme solution to halt the process because he didn't have the capacity to fix it otherwise. It was pretty clever of them to go this route. It was about the only way to fix it really.

Why do you say it's supposed to be flawed? Why did they harvest advanced civilizations every 50k years? Why not protect the galaxy like Shepard does in the Extended Control ending?

The Control ending is the Catalyst's solution. He believed there couldn't be a peace, so reaping is how he chose to use his control. Shepard might do things differently because he doesn't have that perspective.

Modifié par xCaptainAmazing, 29 juin 2012 - 04:12 .

[Gravbh]

vivaladricas wrote...

Geneaux486 wrote...

Not as  bad as what I thought the Reapers' origins were when playing the first game.  Getting to the end of that quest where you find the source of the hack into that casino on the Citadel (geez, it's been so long I can't even remember the name of that club), finding out that it's an AI theif that's about to upload itself into a starship, I was thinking "...is... is that where they came from?"

Oh wasn't it flux?  I swear I am guessing no google.  I recall that, I didnt think about that, I never really considered their origin which made it better for me.  Like Joker in TDK where you learn nothing at all about him, makes it better.  

Either way I think its mad random that an AI did it.  Like how exactly did he put them in there?  WTF is going on  LOL 

Ah now I recall late night playing ME1 like at 3 AM running around the citadel, makes me sad.    What lurked within.  

Yes, the club was Flux. It had the dancing Volus. You forgot about the dancing Volus. Doesn't that make you feel like a horrible person now?

[Geneaux486]

vivaladricas wrote...

Okay seriously though I need people that did more LSD than me, how does an AI stick them in there? Where did they buy the material? Can he possess (sp) people, hacked synthetics maybe and had the organics loaded up into reaper form?

It just doesn't make any more sense to me and I am willing to listen cause I really want to know any idea on how. No one would shut it off and be like F off?

At that point I just fall back on other sci-fi stories about AI that rebel and take over, using networked electronics to take control of heavy machinery, bend it to its will, that sort of thing.  Depends on how dependant on technology the race that created the Catalyst was at the time, though if they had time to worry about making an AI to save them from evil AI, I'd imagine they had probably reached their peak.  It works for me anyway.

[Mazebook]

Galiredon wrote...

maaaze wrote...

I will just copy/paste an updated answer from another thread

maaaze wrote...

tonnactus wrote...

GabrielK wrote...

I am the Catalyst. Conflict between organics and synthetics is inevitable. I do not wish to see organics destroyed by synthetics. Hmmm...what to do....well, I do have these Reapers just hanging around waiting for something to do....

Maybe I could have my Reapers fly into space and tell everyone to stop fighting. I'll enforce the peace if I have to. Hmmm that seems a little heavy handed, and they may not appreciate having peace enforced on them.

OK. Let's think. What else can I do....

Thinking is hard. I know, I'll just have my Reapers fly in and turn everyone into liquid goo. Kinda sucks for them but they'll be preserved forever. I'm sure they'll appreciate it.

Ooooh look, my Reapers have control of some Geth. Maybe I could tell them to stop killing their creators? Nah. I'll have them help me wipe them out. I mean preserve them.

This is the nonsensical starbrat in a nutshell.

Post like these really incline me to think that some didn´t get the ending at all. 

1. Catalyst doesn´t think like a human.
2. Catalyst was given a task to find a permanent solution in conflict.
3. Telling the Geth to stop would not stop them to rebel sometime in the future in much more powerful state.
4. Synthetics will eventually become more powerful than the reapers/organics so eventually all organics will perish.
5. Task requires organics to not be extinguished.
6. Catalyst values every organic the same.
7. Organics get preserved
8. Therefore reset every 50 000 years.

Is this concept so hard to grasp?

any questions? 

1. How do you know synthetics will become more powerful than reapers/organics?
2. Why not protect the galaxy like god Shepard does in the Extended Control ending?
3. If peace between synthetics/organics is so impossible why was Shepard succeful with Geth/Quarians?

1. How do you know synthetics will become more powerful than reapers/organics?

It was part of the Task given to the Catalyst. The asumption was given to him by the creators . You have to ask them. but given the events in the trilogy ... how would the geth/quarian conflict ended without shapards intervention? 

2. Why not protect the galaxy like god Shepard does in the Extended Control ending?

There is still a chance that more powerful synthetics evolve...solution not permanent...( food for thought : read this about the gray goo hypothesis en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grey_goo )

3. If peace between synthetics/organics is so impossible why was Shepard succeful with Geth/Quarians?


For how long? new conflicts could arise with more powerful geth.



The important part is permanent solution

[EnvyTB075]

The Catalyst is now Deep Thought, only a lot less funny.

[Cyricsservant101]

Geneaux486 wrote...

vivaladricas wrote...

Okay seriously though I need people that did more LSD than me, how does an AI stick them in there? Where did they buy the material? Can he possess (sp) people, hacked synthetics maybe and had the organics loaded up into reaper form?

It just doesn't make any more sense to me and I am willing to listen cause I really want to know any idea on how. No one would shut it off and be like F off?

At that point I just fall back on other sci-fi stories about AI that rebel and take over, using networked electronics to take control of heavy machinery, bend it to its will, that sort of thing.  Depends on how dependant on technology the race that created the Catalyst was at the time, though if they had time to worry about making an AI to save them from evil AI, I'd imagine they had probably reached their peak.  It works for me anyway.

You do have to love the irony.  The prototypical Reapers create an AI to save them from AI... and that AI kills them with synthetics to prevent them from being called by synthetics.  Hilarious.  

[Evo_9]

Galiredon wrote...

...I heard you don't wanna be killed by synthetics. So I made some synthetics to kill you every 50k years so you won't be killed by synthetics.

This was one of the biggest problems I had with the endings and although I thought the Extended Cut were an improvement they didn't address this core issue for me.

To the people who like the new endings, what do you think about this issue before/after the Extended Cut?

were you not paying attention to what the catalyst said? 

Its creators did not agree to be ascending into reaper form, so the catalyst has gone rogue in a quest to fulfill its ultimate purpose by any means necceasary.

In other words, its a big stuff up by whoever created the catalyst.

We need this to be in mass effect 4 IMO!

[KeraWildmane]

Super-Model wrote...

Except that Starchild's logic isn't as flawed as it was before

It's still giving people AIDS to protect them from getting AIDS.

[Galiredon]

maaaze wrote...

maaaze wrote...

I will just copy/paste an updated answer from another thread

maaaze wrote...

tonnactus wrote...

Post like these really incline me to think that some didn´t get the ending at all. 

1. Catalyst doesn´t think like a human.
2. Catalyst was given a task to find a permanent solution in conflict.
3. Telling the Geth to stop would not stop them to rebel sometime in the future in much more powerful state.
4. Synthetics will eventually become more powerful than the reapers/organics so eventually all organics will perish.
5. Task requires organics to not be extinguished.
6. Catalyst values every organic the same.
7. Organics get preserved
8. Therefore reset every 50 000 years.

Is this concept so hard to grasp?

any questions? 

1. How do you know synthetics will become more powerful than reapers/organics?
2. Why not protect the galaxy like god Shepard does in the Extended Control ending?
3. If peace between synthetics/organics is so impossible why was Shepard succeful with Geth/Quarians?

1. How do you know synthetics will become more powerful than reapers/organics?

It was part of the Task given to the Catalyst. The asumption was given to him by the creators . You have to ask them. but given the events in the trilogy ... how would the geth/quarian conflict ended without shapards intervention? 

2. Why not protect the galaxy like god Shepard does in the Extended Control ending?

There is still a chance that more powerful synthetics evolve...solution not permanent...( food for thought : read this about the gray goo hypothesis en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grey_goo )

3. If peace between synthetics/organics is so impossible why was Shepard succeful with Geth/Quarians?


For how long? new conflicts could arise with more powerful geth.



The important part is permanent solution

But the 3 solutions the Catalyst creates aren't permanent either, especially Destory.

Modifié par Galiredon, 29 juin 2012 - 04:22 .

[Mazebook]

maaaze wrote...

Galiredon wrote...

maaaze wrote...

I will just copy/paste an updated answer from another thread

maaaze wrote...

tonnactus wrote...

GabrielK wrote...

I am the Catalyst. Conflict between organics and synthetics is inevitable. I do not wish to see organics destroyed by synthetics. Hmmm...what to do....well, I do have these Reapers just hanging around waiting for something to do....

Maybe I could have my Reapers fly into space and tell everyone to stop fighting. I'll enforce the peace if I have to. Hmmm that seems a little heavy handed, and they may not appreciate having peace enforced on them.

OK. Let's think. What else can I do....

Thinking is hard. I know, I'll just have my Reapers fly in and turn everyone into liquid goo. Kinda sucks for them but they'll be preserved forever. I'm sure they'll appreciate it.

Ooooh look, my Reapers have control of some Geth. Maybe I could tell them to stop killing their creators? Nah. I'll have them help me wipe them out. I mean preserve them.

This is the nonsensical starbrat in a nutshell.

Post like these really incline me to think that some didn´t get the ending at all. 

1. Catalyst doesn´t think like a human.
2. Catalyst was given a task to find a permanent solution in conflict.
3. Telling the Geth to stop would not stop them to rebel sometime in the future in much more powerful state.
4. Synthetics will eventually become more powerful than the reapers/organics so eventually all organics will perish.
5. Task requires organics to not be extinguished.
6. Catalyst values every organic the same.
7. Organics get preserved
8. Therefore reset every 50 000 years.

Is this concept so hard to grasp?

any questions? 

1. How do you know synthetics will become more powerful than reapers/organics?
2. Why not protect the galaxy like god Shepard does in the Extended Control ending?
3. If peace between synthetics/organics is so impossible why was Shepard succeful with Geth/Quarians?

1. How do you know synthetics will become more powerful than reapers/organics?

It was part of the Task given to the Catalyst. The asumption was given to him by the creators . You have to ask them. but given the events in the trilogy ... how would the geth/quarian conflict ended without shapards intervention? 

EDIT : I realized i read the question wrong. They are designed to be more powerful otherwise no need for synthetics.

2. Why not protect the galaxy like god Shepard does in the Extended Control ending?

There is still a chance that more powerful synthetics evolve...solution not permanent...( food for thought : read this about the gray goo hypothesis en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grey_goo )

3. If peace between synthetics/organics is so impossible why was Shepard succeful with Geth/Quarians?


For how long? new conflicts could arise with more powerful geth.



The important part is permanent solution

[Oni Changas]

any questions? 

Why not kill the synthetics? Oh, because that would make sense.

[Geneaux486]

EnvyTB075 wrote...

The Catalyst is now Deep Thought, only a lot less funny.

Read that as "throat" at first glace.  Never been happier to be wrong.

Modifié par Geneaux486, 29 juin 2012 - 04:22 .

[mauro2222]

Nothing is permanent, nothing is perfect. It's illogical to think otherwise.

[Evo_9]

OniTYME wrote...

any questions? 

Why not kill the synthetics? Oh, because that would make sense.

um...what happens if organics create a machine superior to the first reaper? 

[Geneaux486]

Evo_9 wrote...

OniTYME wrote...

any questions? 

Why not kill the synthetics? Oh, because that would make sense.

um...what happens if organics create a machine superior to the first reaper? 

They name it "Crucible".

[Galiredon]

Evo_9 wrote...

Galiredon wrote...

...I heard you don't wanna be killed by synthetics. So I made some synthetics to kill you every 50k years so you won't be killed by synthetics.

This was one of the biggest problems I had with the endings and although I thought the Extended Cut were an improvement they didn't address this core issue for me.

To the people who like the new endings, what do you think about this issue before/after the Extended Cut?

were you not paying attention to what the catalyst said? 

Its creators did not agree to be ascending into reaper form, so the catalyst has gone rogue in a quest to fulfill its ultimate purpose by any means necceasary.

In other words, its a big stuff up by whoever created the catalyst.

We need this to be in mass effect 4 IMO!

So you're saying that the race of bug creatures that the Reapers are based on created the Catalyst to help them deal with wars they were having with AI. Then the Catalyst's solution was to merge the bugs and their AI enemys into Reapers? I hadn't realized that and it's a really cool concept.

So why does the Catalyst all of a sudden let Shepard change the cycle?

[Mazebook]

Galiredon wrote...
But the 3 solutions the Catalyst creates aren't permanent either, especially Destory.

Yeah his solution won´t work anymore either...shepard proved him wrong...so new solutions are required... but he can´t make them happen... 
He likes synthesis the best because it is permanent , he doesn´t like destroy because he sees it not as permanent.

[Jadebaby]

Well I didn't like the new endings, can I still answer?

[mauro2222]

That's why he's illogical.

[Galiredon]

maaaze wrote...

Galiredon wrote...
But the 3 solutions the Catalyst creates aren't permanent either, especially Destory.

Yeah his solution won´t work anymore either...shepard proved him wrong...so new solutions are required... but he can´t make them happen... 
He likes synthesis the best because it is permanent , he doesn´t like destroy because he sees it not as permanent.

How does Shepard prove him wrong? They can't conventionally stop the Reapers. They can't use the Crucible's power. How has his solution failed? He could squash the half dead Shepard like a bug and let the cycle continue.

[Daveros]

How has this ever really been confusing? The thought process behind the catalyst is that if organics create synthetics, these synthetics will then kill all the organics, so therefore, the organics which can create synthetics must be stopped, right?

Reapers only reap the advanced races, if not, the synthetics would dominate everything forever; that means humanity, Protheans, Inusannon, etc would never have existed if the Reapers hadn't reaped.

I mean, it's poor logic, but it's still logic. There's no way that the Catalyst isn't taking things too far, but it still makes sense.

[Galiredon]

Jade8aby88 wrote...

Well I didn't like the new endings, can I still answer?

Heck yes.

[Evo_9]

Galiredon wrote...

Evo_9 wrote...

Galiredon wrote...

...I heard you don't wanna be killed by synthetics. So I made some synthetics to kill you every 50k years so you won't be killed by synthetics.

This was one of the biggest problems I had with the endings and although I thought the Extended Cut were an improvement they didn't address this core issue for me.

To the people who like the new endings, what do you think about this issue before/after the Extended Cut?

were you not paying attention to what the catalyst said? 

Its creators did not agree to be ascending into reaper form, so the catalyst has gone rogue in a quest to fulfill its ultimate purpose by any means necceasary.

In other words, its a big stuff up by whoever created the catalyst.

We need this to be in mass effect 4 IMO!

So you're saying that the race of bug creatures that the Reapers are based on created the Catalyst to help them deal with wars they were having with AI. Then the Catalyst's solution was to merge the bugs and their AI enemys into Reapers? I hadn't realized that and it's a really cool concept.

So why does the Catalyst all of a sudden let Shepard change the cycle?

Pretty much except the "bugs" would of created the reaper shell to which the catalyst then controlled, i gather this as the catalyst says

"they gave them form, i gave them function" 

Now why these bugs would create a reaper if they did not agree to the process is a question....maybe they were indoctrnated?? 

So from there i guess this first reaper started the whole cycle.

The catalyst says at the end that the current solution doesnt work and its upto shepard to find a new solution provided by the crucible as it has changed the catalysts functions. Why the catalyst cant do it on its own ill never know.

[Galiredon]

Daveros wrote...

How has this ever really been confusing? The thought process behind the catalyst is that if organics create synthetics, these synthetics will then kill all the organics, so therefore, the organics which can create synthetics must be stopped, right?

Reapers only reap the advanced races, if not, the synthetics would dominate everything forever; that means humanity, Protheans, Inusannon, etc would never have existed if the Reapers hadn't reaped.

I mean, it's poor logic, but it's still logic. There's no way that the Catalyst isn't taking things too far, but it still makes sense.

My main problem with this is that I don't see from the trilogy why Synthetics are so dangerous. The Geth were very peaceful until Soveriegn indoctrinated them. Out of left field was this assumption that Synthetics will eventually destroy organics.