164 réponses à ce sujet

[DnVill]

 

Isn't EC just great! 

Even the Quarians weren't that stupid

Modifié par DnVill, 29 juin 2012 - 09:09 .

[GabrielK]

The Eruptionist wrote...

Well, I think the discussion regarding the Catalyst's logic is going to continue for a while to be honest simply because it's the finale of the trilogy.

Oh I definitely agree that discussion is going to go on. And I didn't mean to imply that it wouldn't, or even shouldn't. I just feel like everything's pretty much been said by now, and probably 99% of discussion is going to be rehashing, repeating (and possibly clarifying) things that have already been brought up. Of course we on the internet love to discuss things to death and Mass Effect is no different.

[Mazebook]

DnVill wrote...

 

Isn't EC just great! 

Even the Quarians weren't that stupid

we cant be sure whats exectly happened with the creators... the new DLC could give us the answers...but for all we know the creators could be synthetics themself...who were mashed with organics to form the first reaper.

[The Eruptionist]

GabrielK wrote...

The Eruptionist wrote...

Well, I think the discussion regarding the Catalyst's logic is going to continue for a while to be honest simply because it's the finale of the trilogy.

Oh I definitely agree that discussion is going to go on. And I didn't mean to imply that it wouldn't, or even shouldn't. I just feel like everything's pretty much been said by now, and probably 99% of discussion is going to be rehashing, repeating (and possibly clarifying) things that have already been brought up. Of course we on the internet love to discuss things to death and Mass Effect is no different.

Agreed. Lots of repetition. You only have to refresh the first page of threads to see the amount of double ups on the questions and issues being raised. A lot of people trying to interpret and understand things or just troll lol (gotta love the Spiderman pics though. He hi-jacks threads like nobody's business)

Also, as an aside, I was just thinking about the level of immersion and involvement you get with games like Mass Effect compared to other art forms and media e.g. film, paintings, television, music etc. With Mass Effect, it's 100's of hours spent with one character where you control them and interact with this amazing universe on an unbelievably epic scale. With books or music it's only a short-term exposure and a limited degree of interactivity so this can potentially limit your attachment. The level of immersion I think contributes to the amount of debate going on in these forums.

Note: not saying other forms of media can't be epically immersive.

Modifié par The Eruptionist, 29 juin 2012 - 09:22 .

[MadRabbit999]

DnVill wrote...

 

Isn't EC just great! 

Even the Quarians weren't that stupid

I would like quote the Catalyst on this one:

He informs us that the creators were having problems with AI, and that they became the first reapers against their will, meaning:

Either the AI were already taking over the control of their race, and proposed a way for organic life to remain alive, so the creator went "Ok, fine, better live as live genetic paste then not living at all".

Or

The creators created this AI being to fight the already existing syntethics, and then he went "Now I will forever protect all organics, and what best way to squash you all into organic juice and put you in a safebox?".
This logic is what I fear Shepard will do with the blue ending, to me he sounds a bit like he could be loosing his head over time, and when he says to  "Protect all organics from any threat"  is a logic that will restart the cycle, because organics keep blowing the crap out of one another they are a threat and the only way to protect hem is to put them into safe  boxes (Restarting the cycle).
Think about it, Skynet (In Terminator), thought exactly the same thing (To protect humans I gotta make sure those other guys don't kill humans, circular logic that to us doesn't make much sense).

Modifié par MadRabbit999, 29 juin 2012 - 09:25 .

[GabrielK]

The Eruptionist wrote...

Also, as an aside, I was just thinking about the level of immersion and involvement you get with games like Mass Effect compared to other art forms and media e.g. film, paintings, television, music etc. With Mass Effect, it's 100's of hours spent with one character where you control them and interact with this amazing universe on an unbelievable epic scale. With books or music it's only a short-term exposure and a limited degree of interactivity so this can potentially limit your attachment. The level of immersion I think contributes to the amount of debate going on in these forums.

I definitely agree that the interactivity in a well done game is a huge boost to immersion and involvement. There's something to be said for active participation in a narrative that helps you forge a powerful connection to the story, characters, world, etc.

[The Eruptionist]

MadRabbit999 wrote...


I would like quote the Catalyst on this one:

He informs us that the creators were having problems with AI, and that they became the first reapers against their will, meaning:

Either the AI were already taking over the control of their race, and proposed a way for organic life to remain alive, so the creator went "Ok, fine, better live as live genetic paste then not living at all".

Or

The creators created this AI being to figh the already existing syntethics, and then he went "Now I will forever protect all organics, and what best way to squash you all into organic juice and put you in a safebox?".
This logic is what I fear Shepard will do with the blue ending, to me he sounds a bit like he could be loosing his head over time, and when he says to  "Protect all organics from any threat"  is a logic that will restart the cycle, because organics keep blowing the crap out of one another, and the only way to protect hem is to put them into safe  boxes (Restarting the cycle). Think about it Skynet (In Terminator), thought exactly the same thing (To protect humans I gotta make sure those other guys don't kill humans, circular logic that to us doesn't make much sense).

I gotta agree with you on that one. My number one reason for not choosing control was that I was not certain on how Shepard would be able to control the Reapers in a benign way for millions upon millions of years. It's too risky. I'll always go with destroy I think because I don't believe that synthetics will always wipe out organics and thus we can rid the galaxy of the broken AI (the Catalyst) with his the 'solution' (the Reapers) and continue our natural evolution. I'm not gonna go into synthesis though (for various reasons lol).

[Mazebook]

MadRabbit999 wrote...

DnVill wrote...

Isn't EC just great! 

Even the Quarians weren't that stupid

I would like quote the Catalyst on this one:

He informs us that the creators were having problems with AI, and that they became the first reapers against their will, meaning:

Either the AI were already taking over the control of their race, and proposed a way for organic life to remain alive, so the creator went "Ok, fine, better live as live genetic paste then not living at all".

Or

The creators created this AI being to fight the already existing syntethics, and then he went "Now I will forever protect all organics, and what best way to squash you all into organic juice and put you in a safebox?".
This logic is what I fear Shepard will do with the blue ending, to me he sounds a bit like he could be loosing his head over time, and when he says to  "Protect all organics from any threat"  is a logic that will restart the cycle, because organics keep blowing the crap out of one another they are a threat and the only way to protect hem is to put them into safe  boxes (Restarting the cycle).
Think about it, Skynet (In Terminator), thought exactly the same thing (To protect humans I gotta make sure those other guys don't kill humans, circular logic that to us doesn't make much sense).

Or take HAL (2001) for that matter. He was instructed by his creators to release all Information, but he was also instructed by the millitary to keep the true meaning of the mission a secret. To uphold both rules he had kill the crew.

[Ivy Lavellan]

Forgive me if this is slightly offtopic: how do you think the Catalyst managed to create the first Reaper against organics' will? He couldn't actually reap them, could he? He had no means to do that, and he couldn't indoctrinate them either, he was just an AI back then. So... how did he wipe all advanced organic life on his own?
Plus, all that liquefying and stuff - that too is easier said than done, especially when you are just a software with no real help XD

[Rahmiel]

Galiredon wrote...
1. How do you know synthetics will become more powerful than reapers/organics?
2. Why not protect the galaxy like god Shepard does in the Extended Control ending?
3. If peace between synthetics/organics is so impossible why was Shepard succeful with Geth/Quarians?

1)  It's the way of things.  Why would synthetics not become more powerful?  The quarians made them, and I would argue that the geth are more powerful than the quarians.  They even forced the quarians from their worlds.  I think it's just a matter of time before the geth (or any synthetic) would learn from the reapers and begin emulating their technology.  It may not happen in 5 years, or 2000 years, but I believe the message is pretty obvious that the synthetics will always rebel and outperform their creators.

2)  well.. if you believe the answer to (1) then you probably will not trust in the control ending.  Personally, I hate the control ending so I don't even really consider it.  Furthermore, the catalyst is an AI, whereas shepard was organic and became something.. else.  Not sure what shepard has become.  So that could be the reason why shepard can protect organics and control synthetics.  <shrug>

3)  There may not be peace between the geth and the quarians.  At least, maybe even not for long.  Who knows if a quarian (or another organic for that matter) decides to attack the geth.  We also know the geth wish to be left alone with their dyson sphere (spelling?).  Some ship or traveller may get too close and provoke a response where the geth attack.  Then that sparks a conflict and suddenly organics and synthetics are at each other's throats again.  There are a multitude of ways to believe the "peace" between the quarians and the geth will errode.

[Rahmiel]

s_kai wrote...

Forgive me if this is slightly offtopic: how do you think the Catalyst managed to create the first Reaper against organics' will? He couldn't actually reap them, could he? He had no means to do that, and he couldn't indoctrinate them either, he was just an AI back then. So... how did he wipe all advanced organic life on his own?
Plus, all that liquefying and stuff - that too is easier said than done, especially when you are just a software with no real help XD

This is interesting.  I've thought about this as well.  Perhaps the creators had already created synthetics that were rebelling and they came up with multiple solutions.  Imagine a situation much like the protheans and the reapers.  The original race is holed up on a planet much like ilos.  Their synthetics are wiping them out in the galaxy.  So as a last resort, they create this new AI to help them.  It comes up with the whole "preservation" solution.  Now.. either the original race is forced at gun point (the AI was able to coerce the attacking synthetics?) or they were "forced" by the inevitability of their own extinction is up to you.  I mean, there are many ways it could go down.

I'm really interested in what people come up with and if any ME3 dlc will cover that.  I'm very interested in this topic.

[Arturia Pendragon]

Armass81 wrote...

How much wood could a woodchuck chuck if a woodchuck could chuck wood?

A woodchuck would chuck as much wood as a woodchuck could if a woodchuck could chuck wood.

EnvyTB075 wrote...

The Catalyst is now Deep Thought, only a lot less funny.

If a kid asks where rain comes from, I think a cute thing to tell him is, "God is crying." And if he asks why God is crying, another cute thing to tell him is, "Probably because of something you did."
---------
I hope if dogs ever take over the world and they choose a king, they don't just go by size because I bet there are some chihuahuas with some good ideas.
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I can picture in my mind a world without war, a world without hate. And I can picture us attacking that world because they'd never expect it.
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Remember, kids in the backseat cause accidents; accidents in the backseat cause kids.

Modifié par Arturia Pendragon, 01 juillet 2012 - 01:34 .

[The Angry One]

DnVill wrote...

 

Isn't EC just great! 

Even the Quarians weren't that stupid

Who knew the Reaper's creators were Microsoft.

[Reptilian Rob]

The Angry One wrote...

DnVill wrote...

 

Isn't EC just great! 

Even the Quarians weren't that stupid

Who knew the Reaper's creators were Apple.

Fixed.

[comrade gando]

I just want to be like *nod's head* yeah yeah yeah... look harby you make no freakin' sense, can we just have our showdown now? this makes no sense...

I know... SO BE IT *kills me*