261 réponses à ce sujet

[Missy_MI]

I'd agree with you if the Mass Effect series as a whole had presented players with more decisions like the ending choices.

As it is, you can get through the ME2 'suicide' mission with all crew members alive and well. In ME3, you can persuade the geth and quarians to work together, and even cure the genophage. Not exactly driving home the harsh realities of life and war with those outcomes.

So why in the world is it selfish of players to expect something similar at the very end of the series?

[Geneaux486]

You just said the ops point.

I agree with the OP so that's to be expected.

And yes the organics are also enslaveed in control as well via force. They are alive but one something goes out of hand, the reaper would be there to force order. Do you not see that SHepard with control of the  reapers can impose order any way he wants? It's the same as it was before except Shep does not want to reap organics...Yet.

That's just it though, in the EC, we see that Shepard is basically still Shepard, and always will be.  If your individual character was the kind of person that would go full-tyrant, then it's a risk.  If he or she isn't, then that isn't a risk.

You're rationlizing your decision. A decision in a fictional universe. Why?

Because it's fun to talk about.  Why are you singling me out for doing something many in this thread are doing?

[Reptilian Rob]

Huitzil wrote...

Reptilian Rob wrote...

Huitzil wrote...

Reptilian Rob wrote...

I see you have never read any Larry Niven, Robert Hienlien or Greg Bear. True space operatic has no cohenrent flow to it, it just doesn't. That's why it's called an "Operatic" and not a "Story." You've only mentioned movies, which is the last and most detached form of space opera in any genre because it's finite in it's telling and not continuing. 

Go see an opera and tell me there is a flow to that, that's why there are scenes in an opera. To break up the flow. Why do you think it's called Space "OPERA" and not Space "Story?"

... Are you a Markov chain generator?

I don't know, are you a sicence fiction literature student at a top tier university actually researching this stuff and not looking it up on wikilazy? 

Also, the Markov Chain is a MATHMATICAL formulation based on a set of equations changing formula from one state to another. It has no bearing or relevancy in this discussion unless you are an applied mathmatics major discussing how numeric values infuance patterns in literature or some BS like that. This is literature we're talking here, not the scary and defiled art of numbers. 

Markov chain generators are relevant because your posts are totally nonsensical and read like they don't come from an entity who understands language, but an equation fitting together words into things that look almost-but-not-really like coherent sentences.

So please, explain to me the history of space opera starting from 1954 to present day. This would be a great wealth of information, being that I clearly do not know anything about such authors or pioneers as Niven, Heinlien or Asimov. Bonus points if you go into specific thematics and changing motifs in "Known Universe" and "The Expanse."

Please, enlighten me oh great one from beyond the void. 

Modifié par Reptilian Rob, 29 juin 2012 - 04:56 .

[WizenSlinky0]

Geneaux486 wrote...

Because it's fun to talk about.  Why are you singling me out for doing something many in this thread are doing?

I'm not doing it maliciously. The discussion just happened to gravitate that way and you were the one I happened to be responding to at that time.

I'm always up for a good debate. If you feel I'm disrespecting you in some way, I have no intention of it.

Modifié par WizenSlinky0, 29 juin 2012 - 04:56 .

[MyChemicalBromance]

God damn Rob; If you started flip-flopping any faster you'd get whip-lash.

[Huitzil]

Reptilian Rob wrote...

So please, explain to me the history of space opera starting from 1954 to present day. This would be a great wealth of information, being that I clearly do not know anything about such authors or pioneers as Niven, Heinlien or Asimov. Bonus points if you go into specific thematics and changing motifs in "Known Universe" and "The Expanse."

Please, enlighten me oh great one from beyond the void. 

You clearly didn't get much from this class if you think "the history of space opera" is somethign that supercedes and overrides "how to tell a good story", or that space operas don't have themes. You have no critical thinking skills at all if you think "Oh, if you're so smart, why don't YOU explain this thing I wasn't talking about and has no relevance to the conversation!" is a coherent rebuttal.

I hope you aren't passing that class, and if you are, I hope you didn't spend a lot on tuition.

[Reptilian Rob]

Missy_MI wrote...

I'd agree with you if the Mass Effect series as a whole had presented players with more decisions like the ending choices.

As it is, you can get through the ME2 'suicide' mission with all crew members alive and well. In ME3, you can persuade the geth and quarians to work together, and even cure the genophage. Not exactly driving home the harsh realities of life and war with those outcomes.

So why in the world is it selfish of players to expect something similar at the very end of the series?

Because sometimes the writer likes to jarr their readers a bit for the sake of mixing up their narritive flow, I suppose. Many authors have done this, I mean Known Universe (a 20+ volume space opera) had it's last three books take a really weird and odd turn. However, it kept with the motifs and even though the flow and pace was changed the core narritive was still intact. One of the greatest examples of space opera today, and probably in history. Granted, this only works when all the details are given. In this case they were with the EC. 

[Reptilian Rob]

Huitzil wrote...

Reptilian Rob wrote...

So please, explain to me the history of space opera starting from 1954 to present day. This would be a great wealth of information, being that I clearly do not know anything about such authors or pioneers as Niven, Heinlien or Asimov. Bonus points if you go into specific thematics and changing motifs in "Known Universe" and "The Expanse."

Please, enlighten me oh great one from beyond the void. 

You have no critical thinking skills at all if you think "Oh, if you're so smart, why don't YOU explain this thing I wasn't talking about and has no relevance to the conversation!" is a coherent rebuttal.

Well, I fail to see your response in this matter. So obviously it was an effective one. Which is why I incuded thematics and motifs, critical thinking required for all ages! Personal attacks show just how inheriently flawed your argument is, a smart and facilitated man will attack the idea and the concept, not the person or character. Discussion etiquette 101.

Score one for the boys back at Clarion. 

Modifié par Reptilian Rob, 29 juin 2012 - 05:10 .

[Geneaux486]

WizenSlinky0 wrote...
I'm not doing it maliciously. The discussion just happened to gravitate that way and you were the one I happened to be responding to at that time.

I'm always up for a good debate. If you feel I'm disrespecting you in some way, I have no intention of it.

No worries, I was genuilnely asking.  I don't assume someone's being hostile until they straight up tell me.  Which technically isn't an assumption at that point.  Anyway, I guess what I was doing technically was "rationalizing", but it was a response to the moral dilema of the fictional character, not a personal one.

[Taboo]

Huitzil wrote...

You clearly didn't get much from this class if you think "the history of space opera" is somethign that supercedes and overrides "how to tell a good story", or that space operas don't have themes. You have no critical thinking skills at all if you think "Oh, if you're so smart, why don't YOU explain this thing I wasn't talking about and has no relevance to the conversation!" is a coherent rebuttal.

I hope you aren't passing that class, and if you are, I hope you didn't spend a lot on tuition.

Robert is a writer by trade. He knows his ****.

This is what you do in discussions about art. You participate in it. Being a game, Mass Effect brings you even closer to that. That's what makes it unique.

My Shepard picked Destroy and he's a Paragon. It was closest to my ideals, even if the blowback was monstrous. I can never justify what I did, but I CAN take responsibility.

[Huitzil]

Reptilian Rob wrote...

Well, I fail to see your response in this matter. So obvious it was an effective one. Which is why I incuded thematics and motifs, critical thinking required for all ages! Personal attacks show just how inheriently flawed your argument is, a smart and facilitated man will attack the idea and the concept, not the person or character. Discussion edicate 101.

Score one for the boys back at Clarion. 

There was nothing to respond to. "If you're so smart, why don't YOU explain this thing that I wasn't talking about and has no relevance to the conversation!" is not a counterargument requiring rebuttal.

[chuckles471]

Bad guy tells me to jump. I ask how big a **** he wants in his head so I refused him.

If I knew the facts at the time(spacebrat could've been lying), might have picked destroy but I usually don't reload a choice in a game.

Also no line crossed, totally fine with losing, got to tell the spacebrat he was wrong and my choice may kill everyone but I am not the homicidal mollusk who started it.

[Reptilian Rob]

Taboo-XX wrote...

Huitzil wrote...

You clearly didn't get much from this class if you think "the history of space opera" is somethign that supercedes and overrides "how to tell a good story", or that space operas don't have themes. You have no critical thinking skills at all if you think "Oh, if you're so smart, why don't YOU explain this thing I wasn't talking about and has no relevance to the conversation!" is a coherent rebuttal.

I hope you aren't passing that class, and if you are, I hope you didn't spend a lot on tuition.

Robert is a writer by trade. He knows his ****.

This is what you do in discussions about art. You participate in it. Being a game, Mass Effect brings you even closer to that. That's what makes it unique.

My Shepard picked Destroy and he's a Paragon. It was closest to my ideals, even if the blowback was monstrous. I can never justify what I did, but I CAN take responsibility.

Taboo is a great film and movie buff and industry wizz, he knows his **** in that area more than me by like...At least nine thousand bazillion light years. I don't know, I'm not good with numbers...

Are we done mentally masturbating yet?

[Reptilian Rob]

Huitzil wrote...

Reptilian Rob wrote...

Well, I fail to see your response in this matter. So obvious it was an effective one. Which is why I incuded thematics and motifs, critical thinking required for all ages! Personal attacks show just how inheriently flawed your argument is, a smart and facilitated man will attack the idea and the concept, not the person or character. Discussion edicate 101.

Score one for the boys back at Clarion. 

is not a counterargument requiring rebuttal.

Oh god, I've heard this one too many times today...

Does this mean it's over?

[Taboo]

Thanks for reminding me I haven't had sex in several weeks Robert.

[Astartes Marine]

Missy_MI wrote...
As it is, you can get through the ME2 'suicide' mission with all crew members alive and well.

Minus however many thousands of colonists that were captured and subsequently liquefied.

Missy_MI wrote...
In ME3, you can
persuade the geth and quarians to work together, and even cure the
genophage.

Thessia falls as you are forced to retreat from the planet, you are forced to retreat from Earth as thousands die trying to escape, you see Palaven burning from it's moon Menae. 

Even in Mass Effect 1...how many ships did it take to stop Sovereign? 
Remember that semi-gruesome vision that kept replaying?
The harsh brutality of what Reaper tech can do to the human body (Husks) or the Turians (Saren-husk)?
The Prothean recording on Ilos and it's haunting "...cannot be stopped...cannot be stopped!"

And being forced to choose who to leave behind on Virmire...

From the very beginning you were given a scenario where victory was believed to be impossible at worst, and costly at best.

Missy_MI wrote...
Not exactly driving home the harsh realities of life and war
with those outcomes.

If you cherry pick the scenarios then sure you could see it like that.  Looking at the whole is a different story.

Modifié par Astartes Marine, 29 juin 2012 - 05:12 .

[LT21Titans27]

Good read. OP makes alot of sense. Despite the fact that I don't like how the start child was brought in flawed logic and all. I understand the endings given

[Reptilian Rob]

Taboo-XX wrote...

Thanks for reminding me I haven't had sex in several weeks Robert.

Go watch Prometheus again and have sweet, sweet proto facehugger sex...

Or pretend this discussion is like mental sex, because all this talking about themes and motifs is really giving me a raging nerdon. 

[Geneaux486]

Reptilian Rob wrote...

Huitzil wrote...

Reptilian Rob wrote...

Well, I fail to see your response in this matter. So obvious it was an effective one. Which is why I incuded thematics and motifs, critical thinking required for all ages! Personal attacks show just how inheriently flawed your argument is, a smart and facilitated man will attack the idea and the concept, not the person or character. Discussion edicate 101.

Score one for the boys back at Clarion. 

is not a counterargument requiring rebuttal.

Oh god, I've heard this one too many times today...

Does this mean it's over?

If that's the case I'd say let the dude have his last word and be on his way.  Save yourself the headache of prolonging that kind of bull****.

[MyChemicalBromance]

The problem with this statement is that you're assuming lives have value in the first place.

That is still morality.

Your implication that Refuse is somehow "worse" than the other two still requires there to be a right and wrong.

If you're going to dip into nihilism, at least try to go all the way.

[Taboo]

OMG THE NERDON.

I haven't had this much fun since I was drunk posting and a mod asked me if I needed help getting to bed.

[Astartes Marine]

Reptilian Rob wrote...
Go watch Prometheus again and have sweet, sweet proto facehugger sex...

That was a terrible movie.  Dare I say worse than the default ME3 endings. <_<

[Reptilian Rob]

Geneaux486 wrote...

Reptilian Rob wrote...

Huitzil wrote...

Reptilian Rob wrote...

Well, I fail to see your response in this matter. So obvious it was an effective one. Which is why I incuded thematics and motifs, critical thinking required for all ages! Personal attacks show just how inheriently flawed your argument is, a smart and facilitated man will attack the idea and the concept, not the person or character. Discussion edicate 101.

Score one for the boys back at Clarion. 

is not a counterargument requiring rebuttal.

Oh god, I've heard this one too many times today...

Does this mean it's over?

If that's the case I'd say let the dude have his last word and be on his way.  Save yourself the headache of prolonging that kind of bull****.

It's kind of fun...In the same way poking a wasp nest is I guess...

Anyway, bringing the topic back full circle I actually see this motif recurring throughout ME1-ME3. We keep seeing and hearing "Sacrifice" thorughout the trilogy...I think the ending after the EC wants us to make a pretty big sacrifice in the name of survival...I think that's what they were going for. 

[Taboo]

No. Alien Resurrection was a terrible movie.

[Reptilian Rob]

Astartes Marine wrote...

Reptilian Rob wrote...
Go watch Prometheus again and have sweet, sweet proto facehugger sex...

That was a terrible movie.  Dare I say worse than the default ME3 endings. <_<

Ridley Scott...

Ridley....Scott....

Ridley.........****ing.......Scott.......