261 réponses à ce sujet

[EnvyTB075]

Taboo-XX wrote...

He is merely a proxy. That is it.

Its the Reapers collective intelligence. It is the enemy.

And the enemy must be destroyed.

And it was.

Modifié par EnvyTB075, 29 juin 2012 - 05:57 .

[KingWrex]

Reptilian just finished Spec Ops The Line just like a few minutes ago I was about to start a thread comparing the two but ya beat me to it sort of....anyway while I agree we you somewhat in the end Mass Effect and Spec Ops are very different games. "The Line" is in this game and it makes me feel a little differently about the overall ending choice but the fact is there are just to many plotholes for this ending to work. Sure they patched a few with EC but its still (using a ship analogy here) sinking just slower

[Reptilian Rob]

@Chemical

Morality does not equal life or nihilism. Morality is a personal choice not a narrative extrapolation of inherent Human qualities, it's just an individual belief.

A belief which does not matter when the survival of trillions is resting on three choices that morally stand in your way. That's when the line comes into play, and when you have to cross it.

The existence of morality in everyday life is what defines us, the concept of morality breaks down once the concept of wat is applied. Nothing is black and white in this universe, only absolutes which men create out of misunderstanding. 

Modifié par Reptilian Rob, 29 juin 2012 - 06:01 .

[dreman9999]

Jade8aby88 wrote...

the 3 choices are not the galaxy winning on their terms, it is not Shepard winning on her/his terms, which breaks a massive theme established in the past two games.

I played ME1 because Shepard climbed out of that rubble.
I played ME2 because with enough work, you could ensure everyones survival, including your own.
I did not pay ME3 because I knew that no matter what I did, I could not win, just compromise.

Where was this complain when you had to sacrific the council/ allices in the end of ME1? You always have choices like in the end of ME3 in ME AS A SERIES.

[Jadebaby]

If Bioware just let the ending play out and my Shepard could kill the Reapers. With the losses sustained through conventional means as the sacrifice (varying with EMS). My Shepard would sleep peacefully at night.

[Taboo]

Reptilian Rob wrote...

Taboo-XX wrote...

Have you seen The Thin Red Line?

DEVASTATING.

Yes, much better than Saving Private Ryan. 

You have no idea how much of a nerdon this gives me.

[Reptilian Rob]

KingWrex wrote...

Reptilian just finished Spec Ops The Line just like a few minutes ago I was about to start a thread comparing the two but ya beat me to it sort of....anyway while I agree we you somewhat in the end Mass Effect and Spec Ops are very different games. "The Line" is in this game and it makes me feel a little differently about the overall ending choice but the fact is there are just to many plotholes for this ending to work. Sure they patched a few with EC but its still (using a ship analogy here) sinking just slower

Please tell me you **** your pants and felt like you were going to throw up after you dropped the White Phosphate...

[KingWrex]

By the way seriously recommend this game to everyone it'll blow your mind

[Reptilian Rob]

KingWrex wrote...

By the way seriously recommend this game to everyone it'll blow your mind

It didn't blow my mind...It set it on fire. 

[Torrible]

The best choice is the one that results in the most happiness. In crude terms, it means the one that results in the most number of people surviving. If you see the Geth as people, then Control and Synthesis are far superior to Destroy which is far superior to Refuse. Some may say that it is evil to think of sentient lives in terms of pure mathematics but those people never had to make the hard decision that Shepard did.

[Jadebaby]

dreman9999 wrote...

Jade8aby88 wrote...

the 3 choices are not the galaxy winning on their terms, it is not Shepard winning on her/his terms, which breaks a massive theme established in the past two games.

I played ME1 because Shepard climbed out of that rubble.
I played ME2 because with enough work, you could ensure everyones survival, including your own.
I did not pay ME3 because I knew that no matter what I did, I could not win, just compromise.

Where was this complain when you had to sacrific the council/ allices in the end of ME1? You always have choices like in the end of ME3 in ME AS A SERIES.

Because those choices only affected their lives, not the galaxy as a whole. But more so because those choices just helped shape your playthrough. Whatever choice you pick in ME1. Shepard will still come out of that rubble. This is not the case in ME3.

[KingWrex]

Reptilian Rob wrote...

KingWrex wrote...

Reptilian just finished Spec Ops The Line just like a few minutes ago I was about to start a thread comparing the two but ya beat me to it sort of....anyway while I agree we you somewhat in the end Mass Effect and Spec Ops are very different games. "The Line" is in this game and it makes me feel a little differently about the overall ending choice but the fact is there are just to many plotholes for this ending to work. Sure they patched a few with EC but its still (using a ship analogy here) sinking just slower

Please tell me you **** your pants and felt like you were going to throw up after you dropped the White Phosphate...

Made the alpha relay look like a joke man. The number maybe higher but when you actually see this..... I was just......blown away I guess

[AxeloftheKey]

This is so true. It's everything I feel.

And the new Refusal ending works, too. Sticking to your limited morals and personal code means you lose this cycle. You can help the next cycle win, but you doom your entire galactic civilization.

[Reptilian Rob]

KingWrex wrote...

Reptilian Rob wrote...

KingWrex wrote...

Reptilian just finished Spec Ops The Line just like a few minutes ago I was about to start a thread comparing the two but ya beat me to it sort of....anyway while I agree we you somewhat in the end Mass Effect and Spec Ops are very different games. "The Line" is in this game and it makes me feel a little differently about the overall ending choice but the fact is there are just to many plotholes for this ending to work. Sure they patched a few with EC but its still (using a ship analogy here) sinking just slower

Please tell me you **** your pants and felt like you were going to throw up after you dropped the White Phosphate...

Made the alpha relay look like a joke man. The number maybe higher but when you actually see this..... I was just......blown away I guess

That game made IT look like a joke...

The end man...Oh my god the end...I was just shellshocked.

[Taboo]

Torrible wrote...

The best choice is the one that results in the most happiness. In crude terms, it means the one that results in the most number of people surviving. If you see the Geth as people, then Control and Synthesis are far superior to Destroy which is far superior to Refuse. Some may say that it is evil to think of sentient lives in terms of pure mathematics but those people never had to make the hard decision that Shepard did.

Happy =/= Free

LOL Synthesis.

[dreman9999]

Jade8aby88 wrote...

If Bioware just let the ending play out and my Shepard could kill the Reapers. With the losses sustained through conventional means as the sacrifice (varying with EMS). My Shepard would sleep peacefully at night.

Get over this convention victroy garbage because it can't be done. The reaper push back our forces on multiple fronts when we had the backing of the turians, krogan, geth, asari, salarians,quarians and alliance and some how when they have a consentrated force and stil fighting multiple fronts we can beat them? How mANY TIME MUST IT BE SAID THE THE FORCE YOU HAVE CAN ONLY HOLD BACK THE REAPERS?  It's clear vis refusal that you can't win conventionally.

[Astartes Marine]

Reptilian Rob wrote...

KingWrex wrote...

Reptilian Rob wrote...

KingWrex wrote...

Reptilian just finished Spec Ops The Line just like a few minutes ago I was about to start a thread comparing the two but ya beat me to it sort of....anyway while I agree we you somewhat in the end Mass Effect and Spec Ops are very different games. "The Line" is in this game and it makes me feel a little differently about the overall ending choice but the fact is there are just to many plotholes for this ending to work. Sure they patched a few with EC but its still (using a ship analogy here) sinking just slower

Please tell me you **** your pants and felt like you were going to throw up after you dropped the White Phosphate...

Made the alpha relay look like a joke man. The number maybe higher but when you actually see this..... I was just......blown away I guess

That game made IT look like a joke...

The end man...Oh my god the end...I was just shellshocked.

So I take it Spec Ops is worthy of a purchase?

[dreman9999]

Jade8aby88 wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

Jade8aby88 wrote...

the 3 choices are not the galaxy winning on their terms, it is not Shepard winning on her/his terms, which breaks a massive theme established in the past two games.

I played ME1 because Shepard climbed out of that rubble.
I played ME2 because with enough work, you could ensure everyones survival, including your own.
I did not pay ME3 because I knew that no matter what I did, I could not win, just compromise.

Where was this complain when you had to sacrific the council/ allices in the end of ME1? You always have choices like in the end of ME3 in ME AS A SERIES.

Because those choices only affected their lives, not the galaxy as a whole. But more so because those choices just helped shape your playthrough. Whatever choice you pick in ME1. Shepard will still come out of that rubble. This is not the case in ME3.

It did effect the galexy as a whole. And what does it matter, the point is still  a question of what lenghts you'll go to stop an unbetable enemy. It matter not if it includes every person in the galexy or every ant.

[Reptilian Rob]

Jade8aby88 wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

Jade8aby88 wrote...

the 3 choices are not the galaxy winning on their terms, it is not Shepard winning on her/his terms, which breaks a massive theme established in the past two games.

I played ME1 because Shepard climbed out of that rubble.
I played ME2 because with enough work, you could ensure everyones survival, including your own.
I did not pay ME3 because I knew that no matter what I did, I could not win, just compromise.

Where was this complain when you had to sacrific the council/ allices in the end of ME1? You always have choices like in the end of ME3 in ME AS A SERIES.

Because those choices only affected their lives, not the galaxy as a whole. But more so because those choices just helped shape your playthrough. Whatever choice you pick in ME1. Shepard will still come out of that rubble. This is not the case in ME3.

To end a war as terrible as the Reaper war, equally terrible things must be done...

[KingWrex]

Reptilian Rob wrote...

KingWrex wrote...

Reptilian Rob wrote...

KingWrex wrote...

Reptilian just finished Spec Ops The Line just like a few minutes ago I was about to start a thread comparing the two but ya beat me to it sort of....anyway while I agree we you somewhat in the end Mass Effect and Spec Ops are very different games. "The Line" is in this game and it makes me feel a little differently about the overall ending choice but the fact is there are just to many plotholes for this ending to work. Sure they patched a few with EC but its still (using a ship analogy here) sinking just slower

Please tell me you **** your pants and felt like you were going to throw up after you dropped the White Phosphate...

Made the alpha relay look like a joke man. The number maybe higher but when you actually see this..... I was just......blown away I guess

That game made IT look like a joke...

The end man...Oh my god the end...I was just shellshocked.

I wouldn't say shellshocked but I just sat there with my mouth open for a few secs.....You go through the various epilogue scenarios too? Or did you just bite the bullet at the end? If you did which one you like?

[Reptilian Rob]

Astartes Marine wrote...

Reptilian Rob wrote...

KingWrex wrote...

Reptilian Rob wrote...

KingWrex wrote...

Reptilian just finished Spec Ops The Line just like a few minutes ago I was about to start a thread comparing the two but ya beat me to it sort of....anyway while I agree we you somewhat in the end Mass Effect and Spec Ops are very different games. "The Line" is in this game and it makes me feel a little differently about the overall ending choice but the fact is there are just to many plotholes for this ending to work. Sure they patched a few with EC but its still (using a ship analogy here) sinking just slower

Please tell me you **** your pants and felt like you were going to throw up after you dropped the White Phosphate...

Made the alpha relay look like a joke man. The number maybe higher but when you actually see this..... I was just......blown away I guess

That game made IT look like a joke...

The end man...Oh my god the end...I was just shellshocked.

So I take it Spec Ops is worthy of a purchase?

Buy three, no four.

It will set your brain on fire, and make you question the person you are for a good three days. 

[Torrible]

Taboo-XX wrote...

Torrible wrote...

The best choice is the one that results in the most happiness. In crude terms, it means the one that results in the most number of people surviving. If you see the Geth as people, then Control and Synthesis are far superior to Destroy which is far superior to Refuse. Some may say that it is evil to think of sentient lives in terms of pure mathematics but those people never had to make the hard decision that Shepard did.

Happy =/= Free

LOL Synthesis.

How are they not free? They retained the same memories that shaped their personalities which enables them to act freely but now, even better, their mental faculties are enchanced by cybernetics. This means they are less inclined to do stupid things like wage wars or anything else that can doom sentient lives. They probably age less and would be free from diseases now that their immune systems are boosted by technology. Synthesis is transhumanism.

Modifié par Torrible, 29 juin 2012 - 06:09 .

[CDRSkyShepard]

Jade8aby88 wrote...

the 3 choices are not the galaxy winning on their terms, it is not Shepard winning on her/his terms, which breaks a massive theme established in the past two games.

I played ME1 because Shepard climbed out of that rubble.
I played ME2 because with enough work, you could ensure everyones survival, including your own.
I did not pay ME3 because I knew that no matter what I did, I could not win, just compromise.

I saw a blog post today about how ME3 was no longer Shepard's story: it was a story of war and sacrifice. We can argue about whether or not it should have been until the cows come home, but it is what it is.

The end choices are in line with that. Up until this point, Shepard has been able to stick to his/her own morals when making galaxy-shaping decisions. There has always been a paragon choice and a renegade choice. There is no paragon or renegade choice at the end of ME3. The end choices of ME3 force you to make the most difficult decision in the trilogy yet: ones that are neither straight-up moral or tactically calculating. Again, you can argue whether or not this belonged in the trilogy, but it is in line with the rest of ME3 and what it was about. I don't personally agree with the direction ME3 took, taking so much focus off of Shepard and trying to go sci-fi noir, but the end choices do reflect this game. They are neither good nor evil: you have to cross a line to save the galaxy in each and every one of them. To stick to your own morals means certain death for everyone...do I necessarily agree with this being in Mass Effect? No, not necessarily. However, it's a valid theme and makes sense...something the endings and their themes didn't before.

Again, I've said this so much I feel like a broken record: I don't think these endings fit Mass Effect. I don't think the StarChild fits Mass Effect. However, we knew that with the EC these things wouldn't change. I agree with Miracle of Sound when he says that the endings are now emotionally satisfying, but still not logically satisfying. At least these endings make some semblance of sense now, even if they don't fit with what Mass Effect was. 

I don't think we can expect "Mass Effect" endings here...the entirety of ME3 is too broken for that. The whole game put the focus on the wrong things. The endings took up a theme that seemed like it was thought up and slapped on at the last minute...to remove that now would mean re-thinking the game as a whole a lot. I just don't see that happening. Mass Effect 3 tried to wax philosophical and go deep where ME1 and ME2 didn't...they were character-centric with some themes, not theme-centric with some characters like ME3. I don't think there's anything we can do about that.

Good post, Rob. Glad that late-night discussions can be productive. Lol.

[KingWrex]

Astartes Marine wrote...

Reptilian Rob wrote...

KingWrex wrote...

Reptilian Rob wrote...

KingWrex wrote...

Reptilian just finished Spec Ops The Line just like a few minutes ago I was about to start a thread comparing the two but ya beat me to it sort of....anyway while I agree we you somewhat in the end Mass Effect and Spec Ops are very different games. "The Line" is in this game and it makes me feel a little differently about the overall ending choice but the fact is there are just to many plotholes for this ending to work. Sure they patched a few with EC but its still (using a ship analogy here) sinking just slower

Please tell me you **** your pants and felt like you were going to throw up after you dropped the White Phosphate...

Made the alpha relay look like a joke man. The number maybe higher but when you actually see this..... I was just......blown away I guess

That game made IT look like a joke...

The end man...Oh my god the end...I was just shellshocked.

So I take it Spec Ops is worthy of a purchase?

IMO yeah but its a short campaign but sweet I plan on playing it again, but for others it might be good for a rental too..just for an over all great experience that you won't forget

[Taboo]

Torrible wrote...

Taboo-XX wrote...

Torrible wrote...

The best choice is the one that results in the most happiness. In crude terms, it means the one that results in the most number of people surviving. If you see the Geth as people, then Control and Synthesis are far superior to Destroy which is far superior to Refuse. Some may say that it is evil to think of sentient lives in terms of pure mathematics but those people never had to make the hard decision that Shepard did.

Happy =/= Free

LOL Synthesis.

How are they not free? They retained the same memories that shaped their personalities which enables them to act freely but now, even better, their mental faculties are enchanced by cybernetics. They probably age less and would be free from diseases now that their immune system is boosted by technology. Synthesis is transhumanism.

Transhumanism is rooted in an existential fear. It should be voluntary. People must WANT it.

You have zero right to afffect all beings for all time.

I would kill myself before I allowed you to do that to me.

That's one death on your shoulders.