261 réponses à ce sujet

[KingWrex]

chuckles471 wrote...

Reptilian Rob wrote...

KingWrex wrote...

Reptilian Rob wrote...

KingWrex wrote...

Reptilian just finished Spec Ops The Line just like a few minutes ago I was about to start a thread comparing the two but ya beat me to it sort of....anyway while I agree we you somewhat in the end Mass Effect and Spec Ops are very different games. "The Line" is in this game and it makes me feel a little differently about the overall ending choice but the fact is there are just to many plotholes for this ending to work. Sure they patched a few with EC but its still (using a ship analogy here) sinking just slower

Please tell me you **** your pants and felt like you were going to throw up after you dropped the White Phosphate...

Made the alpha relay look like a joke man. The number maybe higher but when you actually see this..... I was just......blown away I guess

That game made IT look like a joke...

The end man...Oh my god the end...I was just shellshocked.

Nobody saw that ending coming?  I was half way through and called it but the tv advert gave me the clues.
The phosphorus was cool but /dawns flame suit nowhere near CODs Nuke scene. 

I don't know about the nuke scene I thought the airport scene was worse....Still makes me sick to my stomach:sick:
But yeah hell if you saw it coming good for you but I didn't and I am glad for it.

[Taboo]

I cannot interfere with the way life is.

It's like someone at Bioware took a hit from a bong and just...****.

[Reptilian Rob]

KingWrex wrote...

chuckles471 wrote...

Reptilian Rob wrote...

KingWrex wrote...

Reptilian Rob wrote...

KingWrex wrote...

Reptilian just finished Spec Ops The Line just like a few minutes ago I was about to start a thread comparing the two but ya beat me to it sort of....anyway while I agree we you somewhat in the end Mass Effect and Spec Ops are very different games. "The Line" is in this game and it makes me feel a little differently about the overall ending choice but the fact is there are just to many plotholes for this ending to work. Sure they patched a few with EC but its still (using a ship analogy here) sinking just slower

Please tell me you **** your pants and felt like you were going to throw up after you dropped the White Phosphate...

Made the alpha relay look like a joke man. The number maybe higher but when you actually see this..... I was just......blown away I guess

That game made IT look like a joke...

The end man...Oh my god the end...I was just shellshocked.

Nobody saw that ending coming?  I was half way through and called it but the tv advert gave me the clues.
The phosphorus was cool but /dawns flame suit nowhere near CODs Nuke scene. 

I don't know about the nuke scene I thought the airport scene was worse....Still makes me sick to my stomach:sick:
But yeah hell if you saw it coming good for you but I didn't and I am glad for it.

Same, I never saw that coming...

NOT AT ALL HOLY ****.

[Reptilian Rob]

Taboo-XX wrote...

I cannot interfere with the way life is.

It's like someone at Bioware took a hit from a bong and just...****.

QFT.

That is where my line is held...In ****ing titanium ceramic. 

[dreman9999]

Taboo-XX wrote...

I cannot interfere with the way life is.

It's like someone at Bioware took a hit from a bong and just...****.

You can always not pick it.

[Geneaux486]

Taboo-XX wrote...

I cannot interfere with the way life is.

It's like someone at Bioware took a hit from a bong and just...****.

I'm curious as to what your issue with control is.  I understand the problem with synthesis, and your rational behind destroy, but control doesn't seem to negatively effect anyone except for the entities that started the war in the first place.

[dreman9999]

Lili Dragunova wrote...

Reptilian Rob wrote...
You crossed a line for the survival of the many...

You did what was nessasary. 

Doesn't mean you're gonna feel good about having to do it.

Who said that you are? His main arguement is that you arn't.

[Torrible]

Taboo-XX wrote...

One unit?

**** me.

A hive mind is linked. Everyone would share things.

I like being me thanks.

The Geth are programmed to keep connecting. I do hope synthesised people can actually chooose to disconnect or else that would make Synthesis the worst choice for me (might not be so for sentient life as a whole) as I hate Facebook with a passion.

Modifié par Torrible, 29 juin 2012 - 06:33 .

[dreman9999]

Geneaux486 wrote...

Taboo-XX wrote...

I cannot interfere with the way life is.

It's like someone at Bioware took a hit from a bong and just...****.

I'm curious as to what your issue with control is.  I understand the problem with synthesis, and your rational behind destroy, but control doesn't seem to negatively effect anyone except for the entities that started the war in the first place.

Big brother/sister Shepard comes to mind. It's an imposed order in the maximum state. Shepard literaly hasthe power to do what ever he thing is need to impose order with no one to stop him/her. With Shepard losing his /her humaniy as well to boot.

[Taboo]

Geneaux486 wrote...

Taboo-XX wrote...

I cannot interfere with the way life is.

It's like someone at Bioware took a hit from a bong and just...****.

I'm curious as to what your issue with control is.  I understand the problem with synthesis, and your rational behind destroy, but control doesn't seem to negatively effect anyone except for the entities that started the war in the first place.

I cannot assume such a level of authority. It bothers me greatly. The thought of me becoming such a being...I can't do it.

There should be no arbiter of justice of the Galaxy or in Renegade, a whatever.

Destroy is one final, disgusting act, and then everything is left untouched. People can decide what they wish to do. I don't like the killing of the Geth or EDI, but we must go on, without an AI God roaming about.

[memorysquid]

Taboo-XX wrote...

That isn't the point. You have no right to make the decision for ALL people for ALL time.

Everyone is going to be Synthesized. For ALL time.

That is an incredibly narcissistic stance.

I alone know what's best for all life, for ALL time.

**** me that's scary.

Consigning the Geth and EDI to oblivion won't be a short trip to the park will it?  The Reapers have been kicking around for billions of years; doesn't seem like Reaper Shep will be going anywhere soon does it?  Hell I presume they could retrofit the next generation's DNA into non-synthetic form if they really cared to.  The point is that synthesis is offered as a completely benign transformation.  Whatever it is supposed to be, as poorly defined as they made it, it just gives people Reaper stored thought access, some glowy bits and potential immortality.  They certainly didn't write that it would, for instance, wipe out all individual thought processes and with EDI personally narrating the ending post-synthesis, well we know they didn't imply it either.

So many objections to synthesis come from outside the in game description of it that I think something other than an objection to it, per se, is going on.  At least 4 in 5 critiques of synthesis I have seen rely on some presumption about how it has to work that is nightmarish but has nothing to do with its description in game.  Everyone will starve!  Gene rape!  Loss of individuation!  These just aren't themes advanced by the game.

[KingWrex]

Geneaux486 wrote...

Taboo-XX wrote...

I cannot interfere with the way life is.

It's like someone at Bioware took a hit from a bong and just...****.

I'm curious as to what your issue with control is.  I understand the problem with synthesis, and your rational behind destroy, but control doesn't seem to negatively effect anyone except for the entities that started the war in the first place.

I figure that I'd just rather off the Reapers instead of letting them live in enslavement. Mercy killing I suppose
Not to mention it's kind of creepy no? Catylyst Shep with a reaper army watching over like big bro

Modifié par KingWrex, 29 juin 2012 - 06:36 .

[Reptilian Rob]

Well, gotta sleep. I'll check back on this glorious thread tomorrow!

[KingWrex]

memorysquid wrote...

Taboo-XX wrote...

That isn't the point. You have no right to make the decision for ALL people for ALL time.

Everyone is going to be Synthesized. For ALL time.

That is an incredibly narcissistic stance.

I alone know what's best for all life, for ALL time.

**** me that's scary.

Consigning the Geth and EDI to oblivion won't be a short trip to the park will it?  The Reapers have been kicking around for billions of years; doesn't seem like Reaper Shep will be going anywhere soon does it?  Hell I presume they could retrofit the next generation's DNA into non-synthetic form if they really cared to.  The point is that synthesis is offered as a completely benign transformation.  Whatever it is supposed to be, as poorly defined as they made it, it just gives people Reaper stored thought access, some glowy bits and potential immortality.  They certainly didn't write that it would, for instance, wipe out all individual thought processes and with EDI personally narrating the ending post-synthesis, well we know they didn't imply it either.

So many objections to synthesis come from outside the in game description of it that I think something other than an objection to it, per se, is going on.  At least 4 in 5 critiques of synthesis I have seen rely on some presumption about how it has to work that is nightmarish but has nothing to do with its description in game.  Everyone will starve!  Gene rape!  Loss of individuation!  These just aren't themes advanced by the game.

You can't change the way people percieve Synthesis, and ultimately the biggest question about it is do you have the right to make that choice. Even if it is a benign transformation

[Geneaux486]

Taboo-XX wrote...
I cannot assume such a level of authority. It bothers me greatly. The thought of me becoming such a being...I can't do it.

There should be no arbiter of justice of the Galaxy or in Renegade, a whatever.

Destroy is one final, disgusting act, and then everything is left untouched. People can decide what they wish to do. I don't like the killing of the Geth or EDI, but we must go on, without an AI God roaming about.

Understandable.  Though it seems a lot less frightening in EC, to me at least.  We see that Shepard is basically preserved in terms of moral and ethical convictions, so basically whatever is in your nature will be in the Reapers' nature.  For me that'd basically involve not interfereing with the lives of organics unless asked, and getting the Reapers to a point where the minds inside of them can be set free.  I see it not as a godlike position but rather as taking on the role of a warden, keeping the Reapers in check, doing community service upon request, rehabilitating and eventually releasing.

Modifié par Geneaux486, 29 juin 2012 - 06:40 .

[Taboo]

You missed the point squid. Again.

It's got nothing to do with you, if one can grasp it.

[Torrible]

Taboo-XX wrote...

Geneaux486 wrote...

Taboo-XX wrote...

I cannot interfere with the way life is.

It's like someone at Bioware took a hit from a bong and just...****.

I'm curious as to what your issue with control is.  I understand the problem with synthesis, and your rational behind destroy, but control doesn't seem to negatively effect anyone except for the entities that started the war in the first place.

I cannot assume such a level of authority. It bothers me greatly. The thought of me becoming such a being...I can't do it.

There should be no arbiter of justice of the Galaxy or in Renegade, a whatever.

If that's what you think, then better you than someone else (who might abuse that power) isn't it? At least you can choose to do nothing and let people live out their lives without some godly interference (after you fix the Mass Relays that is). Unless you fear you might be corrupted by that power in future.

Modifié par Torrible, 29 juin 2012 - 06:42 .

[KingWrex]

Geneaux486 wrote...

Taboo-XX wrote...
I cannot assume such a level of authority. It bothers me greatly. The thought of me becoming such a being...I can't do it.

There should be no arbiter of justice of the Galaxy or in Renegade, a whatever.

Destroy is one final, disgusting act, and then everything is left untouched. People can decide what they wish to do. I don't like the killing of the Geth or EDI, but we must go on, without an AI God roaming about.

Understandable.  Though it seems a lot less frightening in EC, to me at least.  We see that Shepard is basically preserved in terms of moral and ethical convictions, so basically whatever is in your nature will be in the Reapers' nature.  For me that'd basically involve not interfereing with the lives of organics unless asked, and getting the Reapers to a point where the minds inside of them can be set free.  I see it not as a godlike position but rather as taking on the role of a warden, keeping the Reapers in check, doing community service upon request, rehabilitating and eventually releasing.

Huh interesting take on it, but let me ask you man lets say you have all this power and you see all these wrongs or nasty things happening; no one is doing anything about it or even some government is doing this because they feel it is for the greater good. But you disagree  with them and no one else is stopping them or even wants to stop them do you interfere? Could you stop your self from interfering?

Modifié par KingWrex, 29 juin 2012 - 06:47 .

[Geneaux486]

KingWrex wrote...
Huh interesting take on it, but let me ask you man lets say ylu have all this power and you see all these wrongs or nasty things happening; no one is doing anything abouit it or even some government is doing this because they feel it is for the greater good. But you disagree  with them and no one else is stopping them or even wants to stop them do you interfere?

Question I'd ask myself at that point is would I have interfered before picking control, as a slightly-cyborg'd spectre.  If innocents were being harmed there'd be no harm in intervening, taking power away from only those who were abusing it, handing it over to the opressed or whoever would use it the most effectively, then withdrawing again.

[fle6isnow]

Excellent post, Rob. I've posted similar thoughts before on the board in defense of the previous endings, but not as eloquently as you did. Basically, a big, fat THIS to everything you're saying.

[Jadebaby]

Reptilian Rob wrote...

CDRSkyShepard wrote...

Jade8aby88 wrote...

the 3 choices are not the galaxy winning on their terms, it is not Shepard winning on her/his terms, which breaks a massive theme established in the past two games.

I played ME1 because Shepard climbed out of that rubble.
I played ME2 because with enough work, you could ensure everyones survival, including your own.
I did not pay ME3 because I knew that no matter what I did, I could not win, just compromise.

I saw a blog post today about how ME3 was no longer Shepard's story: it was a story of war and sacrifice. We can argue about whether or not it should have been until the cows come home, but it is what it is.

The end choices are in line with that. Up until this point, Shepard has been able to stick to his/her own morals when making galaxy-shaping decisions. There has always been a paragon choice and a renegade choice. There is no paragon or renegade choice at the end of ME3. The end choices of ME3 force you to make the most difficult decision in the trilogy yet: ones that are neither straight-up moral or tactically calculating. Again, you can argue whether or not this belonged in the trilogy, but it is in line with the rest of ME3 and what it was about. I don't personally agree with the direction ME3 took, taking so much focus off of Shepard and trying to go sci-fi noir, but the end choices do reflect this game. They are neither good nor evil: you have to cross a line to save the galaxy in each and every one of them. To stick to your own morals means certain death for everyone...do I necessarily agree with this being in Mass Effect? No, not necessarily. However, it's a valid theme and makes sense...something the endings and their themes didn't before.

Again, I've said this so much I feel like a broken record: I don't think these endings fit Mass Effect. I don't think the StarChild fits Mass Effect. However, we knew that with the EC these things wouldn't change. I agree with Miracle of Sound when he says that the endings are now emotionally satisfying, but still not logically satisfying. At least these endings make some semblance of sense now, even if they don't fit with what Mass Effect was. 

I don't think we can expect "Mass Effect" endings here...the entirety of ME3 is too broken for that. The whole game put the focus on the wrong things. The endings took up a theme that seemed like it was thought up and slapped on at the last minute...to remove that now would mean re-thinking the game as a whole a lot. I just don't see that happening. Mass Effect 3 tried to wax philosophical and go deep where ME1 and ME2 didn't...they were character-centric with some themes, not theme-centric with some characters like ME3. I don't think there's anything we can do about that.

Good post, Rob. Glad that late-night discussions can be productive. Lol.

I agree with all of this.

And this is a deep ****ing thread...Again props to all who are in here, no matter your stance! This is good stuff to the max. <3

The truth hurts. It really does.

[Jadebaby]

Taboo-XX wrote...

I cannot interfere with the way life is.

It's like someone at Bioware took a hit from a bong and just...****.

damn truth.

[KingWrex]

But your opinion is relative isn't it? Just cause you have this power doesn't make your opinion right. Neither does it give you the right to interfere. And in the end what were the Reapers doing? They were doing what they thought was right even though it was deeply flawed. Don't you think that the galaxy should police itself and self-determinate?

[KingWrex]

fle6isnow wrote...

Excellent post, Rob. I've posted similar thoughts before on the board in defense of the previous endings, but not as eloquently as you did. Basically, a big, fat THIS to everything you're saying.

You should check out Spec Ops The Line my friend. I never liked the endings of ME still don't(don't want to get into a debate as to why they don't belong) but this game did make me view them a bit more differently

[nhcre8tv1]

KingWrex wrote...

fle6isnow wrote...

Excellent post, Rob. I've posted similar thoughts before on the board in defense of the previous endings, but not as eloquently as you did. Basically, a big, fat THIS to everything you're saying.

You should check out Spec Ops The Line my friend. I never liked the endings of ME still don't(don't want to get into a debate as to why they don't belong) but this game did make me view them a bit more differently

Personally, I thought it was a generic brown shooter with a graphics budget that could fill the Taj Mahal, but I guess now my view has changed. I guess they marketed it like that to suprise us.

Modifié par nhcre8tv1, 29 juin 2012 - 06:59 .