139 réponses à ce sujet

[I_pity_the_fool]

joker_jack wrote...

So if dragoons have "unlimited" listed in the budget then bioware just plain ***** up.

What?

[taplonaplo]

joker_jack wrote...

So if dragoons have "unlimited" listed in the budget then bioware just plain ***** up.

You do realize it only means that once the spawn budget doesn't have enough left to spawn a more expensive unit it'll make dragoons. The number of enemies on the map is 8 at a given time max, the "unlimited" is severly limited by that, considering usually 5/6 of 8 is assigned to the other units.

[Grotaiche]

Thanks for the data mining !

[alpenhornblazer]

I_pity_the_fool wrote...

Ok. I've looked in the
retaliation coalesced file (it's not actually called coalesced.bin, but
whatever). Here is what it says. Bear in mind that these settings can be
overridden by changes on the server. If bioware decide to change the
wave composition before launch but after the files have been sent off to
microsoft and co., I don't suppose they'd put those alterations in the
weekly balance changes.

Also I'm not an expert on how spawns work, so if you think I've misinterpreted something, please say so...

New Unit Budget Costs:

For comparison, a phantom is 80 points, a banshee 100, a pyro 40, a marauder 35.

Collector Trooper 25
Collector Captain 35
Abomination 40
Scion 75
Praetorian 120
Seeker swarms 10
Webs 10

Bombers 30
Phoenixes (or dragoons, as we know them) 70

Possession is handled by a different mechanic. It appears that during each wave only enemies of certain types can be possessed.

Collector Wave Composition on Gold

Enemies that can be possessed are in italics

1: unlimited troopers, 3 abominations, 2 captains.

2: unlimited troopers, 2 abominations, 2 captains, 1 scion

3: unlimited troopers, 1 abomination, 2 captains, 1 praetorian

4: Troopers, 2 abominations, 2 captains, 2 scions

5: Troopers, 2 abominations, 1 scion, 1 praetorian

6: Troopers, 2 captains, 2 scions, 2 praetorians

7: Abominations, 1 captain, 3 scions

8: Troopers, 3 captains, 2 scions, 2 praetorians

9: Abominations, 2 captains, 2 scions, 1 praetorian

10: Abominations, 2 captains, 2 scions, 2 praetorians

11: Troopers, 2 abominations, 2 scions, 2 praetorians

It's
quite interesting the way that spawns work. Before retaliation, the
numbers were set up so that around about 1/3 of the spawn budget would
be on the field at any one time. So on wave 7 for cerberus, 2 phantoms, 1
atlas, 1 engineer and unlimited (though in practice 4) nemeses would
appear. That makes (2 x 80) + (1 x 100) + (1 x 40) + (4 x 30), or 420,
which is about 32% of the wave spawn budget on wave 7 (1320). With wave 9
reapers, a little over a third is on the field at any one time (530
points out of 1560). With wave 9 geth, 440 points out of 1560 (28%).
Since you only usually have to nuke 3 spawn points if you're farming
glacier geth, I do wonder where the other few percent go. Perhaps
someone can answer that.

Cerberus wave composition on gold according to coalesced:

We're
going by the coalesced file here. As I say, I've seen phoenixes on late
waves of cerberus gold, but they're not in the file.

The wave composition is broadly the same.

On wave 3, a phoenix replaces a guardian (unlimited troopers, 1 phoenix, 3 nems, 1 atlas)

On
wave 4, phoenixes replace guardians and centurions replace troopers
(unlimited centurions, 3 phoenixes, 2 engineers, 1 phantom)

On
wave 6, the wave composition is unlimited (or 2) phoenixes, 2 nems, 2
engies and 2 phantoms (was 2 phantoms, 2 engies, 2 guardians and
unlimited nemeses)

On wave 7, it's unlimited phoenixes, 2 engies, 2 phantoms and 1 atlas (was 1 engie, unlimited nems, 2 phantoms and 1 atlas).

Waves 8, 9 and 10 are the same according to coalesced (the file can't be right here).

On wave 11, there are 4 phantoms, 2 atlases and unlimited phoenixes.

Geth

On wave 3, we have unlimited troopers, 2 bombers, 1 pyro, and 1 prime (bombers replace rocket troopers).

On wave 4, unlimited troopers, 3 rocket troopers, 2 hunters and 2 bombers (bombers replace pyros)

On
wave 6, unlimited hunters, 3 rocket troopers, 2 pyros and 1 prime (used
to be the same, but 2 hunters, not sure what difference this would
make...)

On wave 8, unlimited troopers, 2 bombers, 2 pyros and 2 primes (formerly unlimited rocket troopers, 3 pyros, 2 primes)

On
wave 9, unlimited hunters, 2 rocket troopers, 2 pyros, 3 bombers (was
unlimited hunters, 2 rocket troopers, 2 pyros and 2 primes)

On wave 10, unlimited rocket troopers, 3 pyros, 2 hunters and 2 primes (was unlimited hunters, 3 pyros and 3 primes)

On wave 11, unlimited hunters, 1 bomber, 2 pyros and 2 primes.

Great Job! Thanks.

Modifié par alpenhornblazer, 23 octobre 2012 - 01:21 .

[Cyonan]

I've started on updating this. I have Bronze/Silver in.

Gold should be up soon.

[Grotaiche]

Thanks a bunch, very appreciated !

Be careful though, as Mr Fagnan stated earlier in his "balance changes delayed" topic, they could (will ?) change waves 9/10/11 compositions for Bronze/Silver for Geth and Cerberus.

[sirdario1986]

I love you.

[stayposi1990]

Thank you for this!

[Uh Cold]

Good post! I knew about the wave budget but I didn't know the exact cost per enemy.
So killing 3 engineers is worth a little over 1 atlas kill.
Very Interesting.

Modifié par Uh Cold, 24 octobre 2012 - 09:57 .

[Lexa_D]

Silver table contradicts practice for guardians:

[Uh Cold]

Lexa_D wrote...

Silver table contradicts practice for guardians:

On the lower difficulties (i.e. bronze and silver) it is known for the bigger enemies to stop spawning after a while and give priority spawn to the lower targets.
That is why you have a guardian spam.

Modifié par Uh Cold, 24 octobre 2012 - 10:06 .

[genomandril]

Very helpful. Waiting for collector data 

P.D.: I missed I_pity_the_fool's post. Any info on plat?

Modifié par Genogryph, 24 octobre 2012 - 10:17 .

[Muhkida]

Looks like Wave 3 Silver is the best way to farm Husks....

Stupid Death Guard banner:sick:

[Lexa_D]

Uh Cold wrote...

Lexa_D wrote...

Silver table contradicts practice for guardians:

On the lower difficulties (i.e. bronze and silver) it is known for the bigger enemies to stop spawning after a while and give priority spawn to the lower targets.
That is why you have a guardian spam.

Cyonan, please update table/first post to aco**** for this.

Edit: lol, I won't fix this autoedit of misspelled "account"

Modifié par Lexa_D, 24 octobre 2012 - 11:40 .

[Achire]

Great work. Hoping to see Platinum soon.

[Cyonan]

Currently working on some design work for my Sister's fiance.

After that, will be adding more to the sheet, including this week's changes. Hopefully will be able to finish everything including Platinum tonight or tomorrow.

[psycho_dragon62]

Wow, this is remarkable work! I'm so glad I found this! Thank you sooo much

[Cyonan]

I've added Gold and Platinum data.

None of the 3 vanilla factions seemed to have any Collector units in their waves. I don't actually play Platinum but that seems like it would be off.

Someone who does play Platinum will have to let me know.

[OmegaRex]

Cyonan wrote...

I've added Gold and Platinum data.

None of the 3 vanilla factions seemed to have any Collector units in their waves. I don't actually play Platinum but that seems like it would be off.

Someone who does play Platinum will have to let me know.

this is right.

Collectors don't show up if Dragoons/Geth/Reaper are the starting enemy.

[Learn To Love Yourself]

Cyonan wrote...

I've added Gold and Platinum data.

None of the 3 vanilla factions seemed to have any Collector units in their waves. I don't actually play Platinum but that seems like it would be off.

Someone who does play Platinum will have to let me know.

You will only find Collectors in Platinum if you are playing Collectors on Platinum.  You are correct, none of the other factions have Collectors.

Have my children.

[StarStruck010]

Thanks cyonan. You're awesome.

[UnknownMercenary]

Your spreadsheet lists 0 Dragoons on wave 10 and 11 Gold. That can't be right; I know I at least see them on wave 11. Dragoons being unlimited/unlimited on waves 6 and 7 sounds about right though.

[rmccowen]

Cyonan wrote...

I've added Gold and Platinum data.

None of the 3 vanilla factions seemed to have any Collector units in their waves. I don't actually play Platinum but that seems like it would be off.

Someone who does play Platinum will have to let me know.

Thanks for the hard work.

[unclemonster]

this is very, very useful.
GREAT JOB!!
thank you for all of the hard work