230 réponses à ce sujet

[Earthborn_Shepard]

I still don't see how Synthesis -> eternal harmony. Great, so we're all half robot now. That doesn't stop any new wars from coming. It's not like suddenly everyone has the same views and opinions (and if it is, that makes Synthesis even more creepy).
Also, through the entire ME storyline we learned that Synthetics ARE already alive. Two of our crewmates are a geth (who is EXPLICITELY shown gaining conciousness in ME3) and a robot, who even starts to feel love. And now Shepard goes all "nope, you need my superior space DNA to truly be something"?

[CroGamer002]

Hudathan wrote...

Mesina2 wrote...

Because whoever wrote Synthesis doesn't understand how evolution works.

Btw, we don't really know how it works neither, that's why it's called a theory. Don't try to use real-world science to try and debunk anything in sci-fi, it assumes that we know everything there is to know about the universe which is absurd.

We know enough that there's no such this as the end of evolution, we either continue evolving or stagnate.

[clennon8]

Um... that was epic, OP. Truly epic. Thanks for sharing it. Screw Synthesis and the green horse it rode in on.

[Bill Casey]

EDI: we may transcend mortality itself to reach a level of existence I cannot even imagine.

Sovereign: There is a realm of existence so far beyond your own you cannot even imagine it.



Interestingly New EDI mentions "solving overpopulation" when they show the Krogan...

Modifié par Bill Casey, 29 juin 2012 - 07:42 .

[Astartes Marine]

Bill Casey wrote...

EDI: we may transcend mortality itself to reach a level of existence I cannot even imagine.

Sovereign: There is a realm of existence so far beyond your own you cannot even imagine it.

Harbinger: We are the harbinger of your perfection!
Star Child: Organics will be perfected by integrating fully with
synthetic technology, synthetics in turn will finally have full
understanding of organics.  It is the ideal solution.

[Earthborn_Shepard]

By the way, I noticed something a few days ago, and I think it might be really interesting.

When you talk to EDI before the Cronos station mission, she talks about how she can't understand why some people would sacrifice themselves for other people they don't even know. At some point, Shepard turns around to her and asks "Are you saying that submission would be preferable to extinction?"

Does that ring a bell?

No?

Go back to ME1. One of Saren's lines on Virmire is "Is submission not preferable to extinction?"

[Joy Sauce]

Pretty much agree with all that.

Plus use of the words "Final" and "Solution" so close together can't help but make me think synthesis is a bad idea.

I'm a controller, or failing that, a destroyer. Being a synthesizer would just be... dumb.

[shadey]

whoever wrote that is trying to hard.

it's fiction, it doesn't have to apply to any "rule" or "logic" that you determine it should

Modifié par shadey, 29 juin 2012 - 07:50 .

[stysiaq]

I'll add my two cents.

Catalyst says, that he attempted to do Synthesis, but the organics were "not ready for it".

Wait for a moment. So you harvested all the advanced species every 50k years and expected them to be "ready" somehow? You thought that maybe these particular cavemen breed will evolve (at least culturally) faster & better than the previous breed?
And if humans, or at least this cycles organics are "ready", why did you start the harvesting? Wouldn't it be better to send a Reaper welcome party, help to build the Crucible, explain the issue and then wait few more millenia for a Synthetic/Organic conflict to prove your point, and THEN Synthesize all life?

I don't trust Catalyst, not one bit. You shouldn't trust anything that glows green, just like in My Little Pony's season 2 finale. He tries to get away with it.

ME3 has now 2 final choices for me, with the Control being the better one. In the end you are morally allowed to sacrifice both the Geth/EDI (because that is a necessary sacrifice to destroy the Reapers forever) or yourself (and I prefer sacrificing an individual).

[Rohirrim]

To even imply that there is a general evolutionary "endpoint" is ridiculous. Somebody should have told Hudson & co. about the importance of genetic diversity or at the very least something about basic biology.

The whole ending of Mass Effect appears to be too far above the writer's heads. I think the ideas or goals for the story could have gotten too ambitious - and clearly development team lacked the ability to tie all ideas together in a meaningful way. Whether this was due to time constraint, lack of intelligence or missing teamwork, I cannot tell.

[movieguyabw]

Bill Casey wrote...

EDI: we may transcend mortality itself to reach a level of existence I cannot even imagine.

Sovereign: There is a realm of existence so far beyond your own you cannot even imagine it.



Interestingly New EDI mentions "solving overpopulation" when they show the Krogan...

...But EDI technically already is immortal.  She doesn't age.  She has backups of herself...

As for acheiving immortality for organics - that's already theoretically probable.  (Look up the research that's being done into Telomerase; it's pretty darn cool.)

[d-boy15]

had to admit, the most thing I pay attention is last pic. F awesome! LOL

[Earthborn_Shepard]

I have the feeling that missions like Tuchanka and the Geth ship were in usual ME1 quality, and then there was a second writer who wrote beginning and ending and is just completely terrible.

[Mr_Tee]

Just to be clear. I agree with this 100%. Still love the endings thought. Because they still point to the indoctrination theory. Blue feels down right evil, and green is to mutch of a utopia.

In other words:

Blue ending: Shepherd is indoctrinated. He knows it and he´s drunk with power. He feels he is a protector now, but he realy turned in to a super villain. He helps them rebuild the relays but mostly its for his own gain. Listen to his voice and the music of this ending. Is freaking creepy.

Green ending: Shepherd is indoctrinated and put out of play. The ending is mostly images feed to his mind like he is in some kind of matrix effect. His memories and reaper-form has been stored and is studied for intel. He has no powers, but is more store like the kid in overlord. Look at the ending again. It is in other words to good to be true and highly unlikely.

Red ending: Shepherd is still not aware that he is being indoctrinated. But he refuses to get manipulated and completes his original mission of destroying the reapers. He knows the EMP like blast will likely kill EDI and the Geth. But he knows that EDI would rather die then give up her individuality. And the Quarians will rebuild the Geth. They are to much of an asset to Ranoc now. Ass the Crusible detonated, he sees his live flashing before his eyes, and he Imagens what will happen. In the last images he thinks of his friends and how mutch he will miss them. But something is strange, because your love intrest refuses to put up the plack with his name on the memorial wall... why?... Thats when he realize... "Im alive" (BRETH)... END CREDIT.

Modifié par Mr_Tee, 29 juin 2012 - 08:02 .

[Bill Casey]

Synthesis reeks of this...

AssimilationPlot

Assimilation Plot

"I will bring peace to the world. Everlasting peace. And unity. And uniformity."
— The Cyber-Controller, Doctor Who, "The Age of Steel"


This trope refers to a common plot by the villains with a cause, wherein they reason that all of humanity's problems and unhappiness are caused by people being separate/different from one another, and so try to forcefully eliminate the differences and individuality of everyone by merging everyone into one mind/body/soul/etc. Basically, this is when villains use supernatural/Applied Phlebotinum means to make a Hive Mind because Utopia Justifies the Means, and is often done by a Well-Intentioned Extremist/Totalitarian Utilitarian/Knight Templar. This is how The Virus justifies itself, if sentient and possessing a Hive Mind.

Compare/contrast The Evils of Free Will, where the villains use force, brainwashing, and other things to
systematically eliminate unique thinkers until everyone is basically a carbon copy, but remains an individual physically. A standard feature of pretty much every dystopia, ever. See The Singularity for a "natural" version where exponential technological change causes assimilation.

Modifié par Bill Casey, 29 juin 2012 - 08:00 .

[Essalor]

Hudathan wrote...

Mesina2 wrote...

Because whoever wrote Synthesis doesn't understand how evolution works.

Btw, we don't really know how it works neither, that's why it's called a theory. Don't try to use real-world science to try and debunk anything in sci-fi, it assumes that we know everything there is to know about the universe which is absurd.

They use real world science or try to throughout the entire trilogy to explain everything else. Hence the lashback when Synthesis is so poorly written. 

[d1ta]

Synthesis is good. For the LoLs XD.. (Hey, many good jokes come out from it)
I can never and won't take it seriously, I can only see it as a creepy humour. I can respect Destroy, Control and even the Refusal ending, but I guess that's just me.

But then again, different things apeals to different people, so.. *shrugs* thank God it's only a video game XD

[CroGamer002]

@Mr_Tee this topic isn't about discusing EC in general, just Synthesis.


And you're terribly wrong on Control ending, but I please you re-post that in Control ending support thread( linked in my sig).

[Jagri]

movieguyabw wrote...

Bill Casey wrote...

EDI: we may transcend mortality itself to reach a level of existence I cannot even imagine.

Sovereign: There is a realm of existence so far beyond your own you cannot even imagine it.



Interestingly New EDI mentions "solving overpopulation" when they show the Krogan...

...But EDI technically already is immortal.  She doesn't age.  She has backups of herself...

As for acheiving immortality for organics - that's already theoretically probable.  (Look up the research that's being done into Telomerase; it's pretty darn cool.)

Heh that reminds me of the Turritopsis Nutricula or "immortal jellyfish". A creature that really exsists and have been termed biologically immortal by researchers.

Modifié par Jagri, 29 juin 2012 - 08:11 .

[Xamufam]

heres another
the crusible & the mass relays
[/quote]

[quote]eddieoctane wrote...

There are theories that state the speed of light in a true vacuum is
infinite. Space, however, is filled with "stuff". Dark matter, dust,
gas, maybe even dark energy. An adequate repulsive force--in reality
electromagnetism, in the game eezo-produced anti-gravity--could generate
a corridor of mass-free space (pretty sure the codex says this is how
relays work), allowing for instantaneous travel through the corridor.
That's no fiction, it's actual theoretical physics. I hope that makes
some sense.

The
function of the crucible is incredibly difficult to believe. A
homogenous burst of radiation would cause random mutations in DNA. SO
the sythesis pulse would have to actually be a series of directed beams,
each tuned to each atom in the galaxy to re-arrange the physical
structure of the object (DNA molecule, leaves in a tree, Joker's eyes,
etc) being altered. A computer that could do this would 1: violate the
Heisenberg uncertainty principle (requiring to know more about the
particles being influenced than can actually be known) and 2: require a
size greater than at least the colelctive mass of the particles being
altered by the pulse. Laplace's demon deals with this very concept-a
computer should be capable of calculating all possible events ina purely
deterministic universe, but would have to be larger than said universe
to function.

Maybe that went over some people's heads, but it breaks down to this: SPACE MAGIC IS CRAP!

The
line between magic and technology becomes clearer and clearer as more
research is done into the unified field theory. Eventually, a single set
of mathmatical equations will be able to explain all physical
phenomena. This includes higher dimensional interactions, like
superstrings or M theory. There is a point where tech can only be tech,
even if you never saw it before, based solely on science. When you find a
way to cut a gluon in half, come and talk to me about magic. Till then,
everything is tech, and the ending of the game appeared to violate some

basic principles of quantum mechanics.
[/quote]

[gmboy902]

I'm tired of people saying Synthesis isn't explained.

Shepard's essence - which we can presume is his DNA - is combined with the energy of the Crucible and dispersed across the galaxy. It interacts with all life forms it comes across to create a new form of synthetic-organic life. It is about as descriptive as space juice covering a ship which jumps to impossibly fast speeds, or people waving their arms to lift their foes in the air. There's a point where the science has to become pure fiction.

[Essalor]

@ gmboy902 read the post right above yours. Pretty much that.

[CroGamer002]

gmboy902 wrote...

I'm tired of people saying Synthesis isn't explained.

Shepard's essence - which we can presume is his DNA - is combined with the energy of the Crucible and dispersed across the galaxy. It interacts with all life forms it comes across to create a new form of synthetic-organic life. It is about as descriptive as space juice covering a ship which jumps to impossibly fast speeds, or people waving their arms to lift their foes in the air. There's a point where the science has to become pure fiction.

Where was it stated in this thread that Synthesis isn't explained?

It's stated is poorly explained and that's the least problem with the Synthesis.

[tanuki]

d1ta wrote...

Synthesis is good. For the LoLs XD.. (Hey, many good jokes come out from it)
I can never and won't take it seriously, I can only see it as a creepy humour. I can respect Destroy, Control and even the Refusal ending, but I guess that's just me.

Heh. I feel exactly the same about the Synthesis ending. I can only accept is some kind of joke ending, because if you take it at the face value, it's nothing less than abhorrent and horrifying.

[Xamufam]

[quote]gmboy902 wrote...

I'm tired of people saying Synthesis isn't explained.

Shepard's essence - which we can presume is his DNA - is combined with the energy of the Crucible and dispersed across the galaxy. It interacts with all life forms it comes across to create a new form of synthetic-organic life. It is about as descriptive as space juice covering a ship which jumps to impossibly fast speeds, or people waving their arms to lift their foes in the air. There's a point where the science has to become pure fiction.[/quote]


"Mark Twain said that fiction has to make sense"

Why it does not make sense
[/quote]

[quote]eddieoctane wrote...

The
function of the crucible is incredibly difficult to believe. A
homogenous burst of radiation would cause random mutations in DNA. SO
the sythesis pulse would have to actually be a series of directed beams,
each tuned to each atom in the galaxy to re-arrange the physical
structure of the object (DNA molecule, leaves in a tree, Joker's eyes,
etc) being altered. A computer that could do this would 1: violate the
Heisenberg uncertainty principle (requiring to know more about the
particles being influenced than can actually be known) and 2: require a
size greater than at least the colelctive mass of the particles being
altered by the pulse. Laplace's demon deals with this very concept-a
computer should be capable of calculating all possible events ina purely
deterministic universe, but would have to be larger than said universe
to function.

Maybe that went over some people's heads, but it breaks down to this: SPACE MAGIC IS CRAP!
[/quote]

Modifié par Troxa, 29 juin 2012 - 08:20 .