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Great argument against Synthesis made by meronym on Tumblr


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#151
Pottumuusi

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UniversalCypher wrote...

smh @ this..really?..

the guy who wrote that garbage better not have a computer or a cell phone..which is prolly not the case since hes using tumblr.

im sure most will fail to understand the contradiction of his entire rant, thats caused by him owning a computer and/or a cell phone.

to be blunt, biowares perspective isnt so far from the actual truth.

whats really terrible is someone trying to argue against bio-tech synthesis over a computer.

its laughable..


-UC



Surely you realise that not wanting to have large scale unknown modifications done to your body without your consent and not wanting to do that to others is a little different from being Amish.

#152
KingNothing125

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To me, the most annoying aspect of Synthesis is simply that it's too good. Everything's perfect, mortals are now (or soon will be) immortals, organics are perfect, synthetics are perfect, everyone lives in harmony, and all the wisdom of the ages, of the countless civilizations previously harvested, is shared with everyone by the Reapers. BEHOLD THE POWER OF FRIENDSHIP!

How perfectly saccharine and corny. All it's missing is robot-kitten hybrids and digitized rainbows shooting out of everyone's eyeballs. It's enough to make a man puke. I reject it out-of-hand for that reason, before I even consider the eugenics and space magic aspects.

#153
Jonata

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Talking about the OP, there is too much petty sarcasm and a large amount of stupid gifs, but under those egomaniacal "I'm the coolest guy on tumblr"  lines (I'm starting to believe that everyone on tumblr has this particular syndrome) there is a very nice argument.

May require some digging, but worth reading.

Modifié par Jonata, 30 juin 2012 - 04:58 .


#154
o Ventus

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UniversalCypher wrote...

smh @ this..really?..

the guy who wrote that garbage better not have a computer or a cell phone..which is prolly not the case since hes using tumblr.

im sure most will fail to understand the contradiction of his entire rant, thats caused by him owning a computer and/or a cell phone.

to be blunt, biowares perspective isnt so far from the actual truth.

whats really terrible is someone trying to argue against bio-tech synthesis over a computer.

its laughable..


Do you have any idea what you're talking about?

#155
ArchDuck

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Pottumuusi wrote...

UniversalCypher wrote...

smh @ this..really?..

the guy who wrote that garbage better not have a computer or a cell phone..which is prolly not the case since hes using tumblr.

im sure most will fail to understand the contradiction of his entire rant, thats caused by him owning a computer and/or a cell phone.

to be blunt, biowares perspective isnt so far from the actual truth.

whats really terrible is someone trying to argue against bio-tech synthesis over a computer.

its laughable..


-UC



Surely you realise that not wanting to have large scale unknown modifications done to your body without your consent and not wanting to do that to others is a little different from being Amish.


Shhh, you are ruining his strawman argument.

#156
ThatDancingTurian

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ArchDuck wrote...

Shhh, you are ruining his strawman argument.

Straw is sturdier than that argument.

#157
Sil

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Is it only me who thinks that a "Great Argument" doesn't involve a ton of swearing and aggressive tones?

A "Great Argument" uses knowledge, logic and reason in a clear manner to invalidate the oppositions view.

#158
DamonD7

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I just find Synthesis morally repulsive. It does feel (feel) like the ending of choice for Bioware, Star Kid pushes it so so heavily and everything is portrayed as so gosh-darn fabulous in that ending (you're stuck as a husk? oh well! let's hug!).

I've seldom rejected an ending so strongly in a videogame. But hey, Destroy was the one I picked instead and that was much more fitting and moving and logical, so I'm happy :)

#159
GorrilaKing

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Mesina2 wrote...

Hudathan wrote...

Mesina2 wrote...

Because whoever wrote Synthesis doesn't understand how evolution works.

Btw, we don't really know how it works neither, that's why it's called a theory. Don't try to use real-world science to try and debunk anything in sci-fi, it assumes that we know everything there is to know about the universe which is absurd.


We know enough that there's no such this as the end of evolution, we either continue evolving or stagnate.


Agreed on the first part (except that evolution can be seen as an established fact by now) - there is an awful lot we do not yet know but also on the second poster here...especially since we have already met a species that has stagnated because it can adapt and does not "need" to evolve within the games - the Vorcha. Yup, galactic vermin...but tremendously successful from an evolutionary point of view...

As for the Crucible...yeah...won't work. Control and Destruction can be explained with a little work. Synthesis cannot. While M-Theory as an explanation for everything is still being worked on, accomplished scientists (Stephen Hawking, to name just one) have doubted its ability to explain every phenomenon. Plus, some finds in quantum mechanics have put to the question the idea that our universe is totally deterministic. It is, for the most part, but not completely (that is what shocked Einstein and prompted his famous saying, " God does not throw dice").
Unfortunately, that does NOT imply that everything and anything is possible. On the contrary, actually.
For this to work, the Crucible would have to factor in the position of every particle which it cannot. No matter how much calculating power it has, knowing where exactly every particle in the universe happens to be at a given point is physically impossible due to the Uncertainty Principle.
Now, how will it even change organic beings? It has to transform their atoms into different ones by removing/adding particles.
Not as easy as it sounds.
There is another mechanism in quantum mechanics called "decoherence". We should all be grateful for that because it negates, for the most part, the randomness of quantum mechanics within greater accumulations of what we call matter.
Without that little mechanism we could not exist. Now, in order to remove/add particles willy-nilly the beam has to somehow remove that mechanic or at least lessen it. Which would spell the doom of every being touched by the beam because, at worst, they completely disintegrate as their particles lose cohesion, at best, enough of their body mass loses cohesion for a terminal shock and subsequent death.
Then, the beam would have to factor in how organic and synthetic materials interact within each singular species and individual without killing them....


You know, I'll just stop here...

Modifié par GorrilaKing, 30 juin 2012 - 10:07 .


#160
Zaalbar

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Synthesis is the abomination of the ME universe. This does not belong in a ME, It would have been more fitting if it was placed into a Disney movie or Hitler's MIEN KAMPF part 2: SYNTHESIS, My Final Solution.

Modifié par zaalbar76, 30 juin 2012 - 09:55 .


#161
GorrilaKing

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I do like the transhumanist leanings but I like my transhumanism with a healthy sprinkle of choice and less magic...

#162
Reorte

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Although I despise everything to do with Synthesis I think that I'd accept it a bit more if the very idea wasn't so utterly idiotic. I don't have a problem with being able to choose a repulsive ending (other than it screwing up the galaxy for future games, which is all probably part of the plan). And if the EC presentation of it didn't look so much like propaganda.

#163
CroGamer002

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zaalbar76 wrote...

Synthesis is the abomination of the ME universe. This does not belong in a ME, It would have been more fitting if it was placed into a Disney movie or Hitler's MIEN KAMPF part 2: SYNTHESIS, My Final Solution.


I lol'd.

#164
Nerevar-as

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GorrilaKing wrote...

I do like the transhumanist leanings but I like my transhumanism with a healthy sprinkle of choice and less magic...


Deus Ex HR Sarif´s ending presented it much better.

#165
ThatDancingTurian

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Sil wrote...

Is it only me who thinks that a "Great Argument" doesn't involve a ton of swearing and aggressive tones?

A "Great Argument" uses knowledge, logic and reason in a clear manner to invalidate the oppositions view.

There's knowledge, logic and reason in there too. It's sprinkled in between the copious amount of swearing. ;)

Reorte wrote...

And if the EC presentation of it didn't look so much like propaganda.

Agreed. Apparently BioWare's idea of 'clarity' is hand-waving, a pretty girl and of course the huge guilt trip for anyone who would dare think about picking Destroy. "Don't ask how it works! Look at EDI! Look at how happy she is! Isn't she adorable? Aww! How could you even think about killing her?"

It's the exact same stunt they pulled pre-EC. Just show EDI and Joker embracing like they totally weren't already in love and overcoming their differences before the magic evolution dust got to them.

Modifié par Aris Ravenstar, 30 juin 2012 - 11:49 .


#166
The Angry One

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There's nothing wrong with swearing so long as it isn't directed at someone, you know.
The argument brings up many good points, and I can't get over how by elaborating they've made synthesis 500 times more chilling.

#167
CroGamer002

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^I remember mods removing links to stuff with profanity without profanity warnings.


So I'm just putting that.

#168
RebelReya

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Hudathan wrote...

Mesina2 wrote...

Because whoever wrote Synthesis doesn't understand how evolution works.

Btw, we don't really know how it works neither, that's why it's called a theory. Don't try to use real-world science to try and debunk anything in sci-fi, it assumes that we know everything there is to know about the universe which is absurd.


Evolution is basic biology, it's a theory, because like plate-techtonics, we cannot prove it. Their is no other serious scientific theory on the subject. That's not an opinon. I'm a biologist. To ignore the entier concept of competition impoving a species is just delusional.

#169
alienatedflea

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Earthborn_Shepard wrote...

True.

Just one thing. If synthesis was the natural form of evolution...
then why doesn't it happen by itself? Why does it have to be forced?

technically...evolution is forced...you synthesis haters fail to see that...nature forces organisms to adapt in order to survive...Crucible just helped it out...I dont see the moral problems with that...I do see a moral problem with pro-destroy people telling synthesis people that morally they are not right when isnt destroy option micmicking Hitler? Hitler said the jews were the source of all their ills and tried to systematically wipe them out just like you pro-destroy people did with the geth... Image IPB
I rather have everyone...not just whoever survived...working together and prosper from the knowledge of the reapers...

#170
The Angry One

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RebelReya wrote...

Hudathan wrote...

Mesina2 wrote...

Because whoever wrote Synthesis doesn't understand how evolution works.

Btw, we don't really know how it works neither, that's why it's called a theory. Don't try to use real-world science to try and debunk anything in sci-fi, it assumes that we know everything there is to know about the universe which is absurd.


Evolution is basic biology, it's a theory, because like plate-techtonics, we cannot prove it. Their is no other serious scientific theory on the subject. That's not an opinon. I'm a biologist. To ignore the entier concept of competition impoving a species is just delusional.


I don't think Hudathan understands the definition of scientific theory anyway.

#171
The Angry One

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alienatedflea wrote...

Earthborn_Shepard wrote...

True.

Just one thing. If synthesis was the natural form of evolution...
then why doesn't it happen by itself? Why does it have to be forced?

technically...evolution is forced...you synthesis haters fail to see that...nature forces organisms to adapt in order to survive...Crucible just helped it out...I dont see the moral problems with that...I do see a moral problem with pro-destroy people telling synthesis people that morally they are not right when isnt destroy option micmicking Hitler? Hitler said the jews were the source of all their ills and tried to systematically wipe them out just like you pro-destroy people did with the geth... Image IPB
I rather have everyone...not just whoever survived...working together and prosper from the knowledge of the reapers...


Evolution is adaptation over generations. It is not "forced", it is survival of the fittest.
Synthesis is forced. It's imposed upon all beings in an instant, disregarding enviromental needs.

There is no destined path for evolution, especially not something like synthesis, which is not adaptation to enviroment but artificial augmentation that should be done by concious choice. CHOICE.

#172
alienatedflea

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DamonD7 wrote...

I just find Synthesis morally repulsive. It does feel (feel) like the ending of choice for Bioware, Star Kid pushes it so so heavily and everything is portrayed as so gosh-darn fabulous in that ending (you're stuck as a husk? oh well! let's hug!).

I've seldom rejected an ending so strongly in a videogame. But hey, Destroy was the one I picked instead and that was much more fitting and moving and logical, so I'm happy :)

good job, hitler wanna be Image IPB

#173
Guest_Nyoka_*

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Hudathan wrote...

Mesina2 wrote...

Because whoever wrote Synthesis doesn't understand how evolution works.

Btw, we don't really know how it works neither, that's why it's called a theory.

Oh for Christ's sake.

#174
GorrilaKing

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The fact that this whole thing is impossible to pull off (see my short explanation as to why) kind of makes the evolution debate redundant...also, not sure it still belongs here...

#175
alienatedflea

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The Angry One wrote...

alienatedflea wrote...

Earthborn_Shepard wrote...

True.

Just one thing. If synthesis was the natural form of evolution...
then why doesn't it happen by itself? Why does it have to be forced?

technically...evolution is forced...you synthesis haters fail to see that...nature forces organisms to adapt in order to survive...Crucible just helped it out...I dont see the moral problems with that...I do see a moral problem with pro-destroy people telling synthesis people that morally they are not right when isnt destroy option micmicking Hitler? Hitler said the jews were the source of all their ills and tried to systematically wipe them out just like you pro-destroy people did with the geth... Image IPB
I rather have everyone...not just whoever survived...working together and prosper from the knowledge of the reapers...


Evolution is adaptation over generations. It is not "forced", it is survival of the fittest.
Synthesis is forced. It's imposed upon all beings in an instant, disregarding enviromental needs.

There is no destined path for evolution, especially not something like synthesis, which is not adaptation to enviroment but artificial augmentation that should be done by concious choice. CHOICE.

it is forced...otherwise over generations we wouldnt adapt...the body adapts...not by choice but by survivial...in that sense...its forced.  lol with the knowledge we have today...in the not too distant future, we wont have to wait around for evolution to decide what the next adaptation will be...we can do it for ourself...maybe not like the crucible did but there is a destined path for evolution because of genetic engireering and what not.