230 réponses à ce sujet

[wh00ley 06]

Evolution happens gradually. If an animal grows a long neck to reach leaves at the top of trees, and all that happens is direct a lion to its throat, it can't breed and that form of evolution is put to rest. Synthesis puts all your eggs in one basket. If it doesn't work, all life, synthetic and organic, will perish.

[Nerevar-as]

GorrilaKing wrote...

The fact that this whole thing is impossible to pull off (see my short explanation as to why) kind of makes the evolution debate redundant...also, not sure it still belongs here...

There are mass effect fields, biotics and FTL. Why shouldn´t alter every different biological and synthetic living being at a molecular level (including DNA so their children are the same) be possible?<_< Yet distinguising between Reapers and other synthetics is too complicated.

[Reorte]

alienatedflea wrote...

technically...evolution is forced...you synthesis haters fail to see that...nature forces organisms to adapt in order to survive...Crucible just helped it out...I dont see the moral problems with that...I do see a moral problem with pro-destroy people telling synthesis people that morally they are not right when isnt destroy option micmicking Hitler? Hitler said the jews were the source of all their ills and tried to systematically wipe them out just like you pro-destroy people did with the geth...
I rather have everyone...not just whoever survived...working together and prosper from the knowledge of the reapers...

That is all so completely wrong and ignorant on so many levels.

[alienatedflea]

Reorte wrote...

alienatedflea wrote...

technically...evolution is forced...you synthesis haters fail to see that...nature forces organisms to adapt in order to survive...Crucible just helped it out...I dont see the moral problems with that...I do see a moral problem with pro-destroy people telling synthesis people that morally they are not right when isnt destroy option micmicking Hitler? Hitler said the jews were the source of all their ills and tried to systematically wipe them out just like you pro-destroy people did with the geth...
I rather have everyone...not just whoever survived...working together and prosper from the knowledge of the reapers...

That is all so completely wrong and ignorant on so many levels.

how so? replace hitler with shepard and jews with geth/synthetics...looks like destroy option to me

[The Angry One]

alienatedflea wrote...

it is forced...otherwise over generations we wouldnt adapt...the body adapts...not by choice but by survivial...in that sense...its forced.  lol with the knowledge we have today...in the not too distant future, we wont have to wait around for evolution to decide what the next adaptation will be...we can do it for ourself...maybe not like the crucible did but there is a destined path for evolution because of genetic engireering and what not. 

That is not forced.
Is it by choice? No. But here's the thing. Evolution is not moral.
Evolution is not decided by sapient beings, it is just adaptation, where life forms with unsuitable adaptations will die off and thus not breed.
Synthesis on the other hand is a choice by one person to force one particular path of advancement on all beings permanently. That is completely forced, and completely wrong.

[Solaxe]

Earthborn_Shepard wrote...

True.

Just one thing. If synthesis was the natural form of evolution...
then why doesn't it happen by itself? Why does it have to be forced?

Evolution is ALWAYS forced

[ThatDancingTurian]

alienatedflea wrote...

how so? replace hitler with shepard and jews with geth/synthetics...looks like destroy option to me

I just... I just can't even... No. Just no.

[shodiswe]

Earthborn_Shepard wrote...

True.

Just one thing. If synthesis was the natural form of evolution...
then why doesn't it happen by itself? Why does it have to be forced?

I belive that if you pick destroy or control it will eventualy happen by itself unless soemtihng goes wrong and peopel die.. The quarians got implants and biotics got implants and tehy are evolvin, adding more benfits and better bonuses, aswell as more computing power through VI and what not...

It could possibly end well, but it's also entierly possible it will end badly, it's all about the wisdom of those using and implementing the technology and not using things until you're ready.

What synthesis does (it would seem) is add a very advanced upgrade with the knowledge of thousands of specis and millions of years of experimentaton history and experience.

It might work but it's entierly possible that the specis of the current cycle and the specis that eventualy woudl join them would develop along a different path.

As for the catalyst calling is the final evolution, thats as far as the catalyst and it's creators could imagine it to go, but once people got there they began seeing new possibilites, the immense coputing power of a united galaxy of halfsynthetic people numbering trillions along with the chaotic creativity of organic imagination and the synthetic ability to sort through the nearly liminess imagination and explore it's possibilities and applications would open up new possibilites for the future.

Synthesis was a huge boost, who know, maybe the destroy and control people would get there in a few million years or  hundreds of thousands of years.


Personaly I prefer the idea of finding your own way, but at the same time letting all those dead peopel get forgotten and have all their sacrifices and history go to waste seems like... such a waste. I fidn it troubling that the Reapers get to share this "gift" with you, however... Considering all they did.

[alienatedflea]

The Angry One wrote...

alienatedflea wrote...

it is forced...otherwise over generations we wouldnt adapt...the body adapts...not by choice but by survivial...in that sense...its forced.  lol with the knowledge we have today...in the not too distant future, we wont have to wait around for evolution to decide what the next adaptation will be...we can do it for ourself...maybe not like the crucible did but there is a destined path for evolution because of genetic engireering and what not. 

That is not forced.
Is it by choice? No. But here's the thing. Evolution is not moral.
Evolution is not decided by sapient beings, it is just adaptation, where life forms with unsuitable adaptations will die off and thus not breed.
Synthesis on the other hand is a choice by one person to force one particular path of advancement on all beings permanently. That is completely forced, and completely wrong.

never said its moral...>.< the fact that we (humans) on earth are on the top of the food chain..there is nothing to force/cause adaptation....therefore we are not going to evolve until something changes...you said yourself...its done by generation to generation...well we have not evolved since we became homosapens because nothing is forced adaption on us

Genetic tampering is possible and its being studied...soon either evolution will be obsolete or revised to account with labratory-enduced evolution...

its not wrong.  Shepard was given the power to decide the fate of the galaxy...with everyone's full consent and understanding that trying to retake earth might be a one way trip for most....

[alienatedflea]

Nyoka wrote...

"Your Shepard is just like Hitler!"
"No, YOURS is Hitler!"
"Hi, I picked refusal"
"HITLER!"

there is no difference between what hitler did and destroy option is...if there is differences...explain

[alienatedflea]

Aris Ravenstar wrote...

alienatedflea wrote...

how so? replace hitler with shepard and jews with geth/synthetics...looks like destroy option to me

I just... I just can't even... No. Just no.

ohhh no...your moral compass just shatterred at the thought of that huh? poor kid

[alienatedflea]

so natural forces causes adaptations...which is evolution

[Ravii]

really good post and true from my side

[Uncle Jo]

alienatedflea wrote...


how so? replace hitler with shepard and jews with geth/synthetics...looks like destroy option to me

Godwin point for you. Congrats.

[CroGamer002]

Please off with Godwin's law.

[DarklightZERO]

The thing is about evolution is that it is a continuous process. There can be no 'Final Evolution'.

[Reorte]

alienatedflea wrote...

there is no difference between what hitler did and destroy option is...if there is differences...explain

There's the really rather large issue of the fact that Hitler was trying to kill as many Jews as he could and would've happily killed more whereas Shepard had no intention of killing any geth but was forced into a situation where that was the only way to definitely save the galaxy from the Reapers without committing an even greater atrocity. He was not persecuting the geth. They were casualties of war.

It really isn't very hard to understand and I really wonder about people who can't grasp it.

[Reorte]

DarklightZERO wrote...

The thing is about evolution is that it is a continuous process. There can be no 'Final Evolution'.

I suppose there could be. If Synthesis stops random mutations from being able to occur (great, no cancer) then there will be no more evolution. In the long run that would not be a good thing.

[asindre]

alienatedflea wrote...
how so? replace hitler with shepard and jews with geth/synthetics...looks like destroy option to me

I really hope you're joking because the thought of someone believing this just depresses me. Shepard didn't start a war to kill all synthetics.

[clennon8]

Wow, this thread sure went to crap. What a shame, considering the epic OP.

[CroGamer002]

^Yeah.


Please people stop with real life politics.

Those are not needed to bring up to point out problems with any ending.

[GholaHalleck]

The thing you have to remember about Destroy. Is it's you choosing to destroy all things Reaper. Duh right? But people tend to forget some things.
EDI? She's Sovereign's bastard daughter. Half of her code is Reaper, if not more.She was a toddler AI until Cerberus dumped all that code into her.
The Geth? Were a hive mind AI until Legion uploaded Reaper code into them and they used it to achieve true individually.

They would show up as Reaper to the beam. And there's no way to really know if those Geth, as not-evil as they seemed THEN, wouldn't go all Catalyst on the galaxy and take up where their "Fathers" left off.
Think of Reaper code like the Zombie Virus. You know all these people are bitten. You hope they aren't going to turn but you don't know. You have the option to utterly destroy every zombie on the planet, at the cost of every infected dieing too.

And here's a new bit of possible nightmare fuel. Did anyone notice the human husk in london seemed to gain sentience in synthesis? Could you imagine that? The last thing you remember as a human is getting impaled on a spike, then you wake up and you're nothing but metal, a skull for a face and maybe you remember all of those people you killed as a husk.

Yeah. There's a REASON all the Cybermen kill themselves once you take away the emotion inhibitor.

[survivor_686]

GholaHalleck wrote...

The thing you have to remember about Destroy. Is it's you choosing to destroy all things Reaper. Duh right? But people tend to forget some things.
EDI? She's Sovereign's bastard daughter. Half of her code is Reaper, if not more.She was a toddler AI until Cerberus dumped all that code into her.
The Geth? Were a hive mind AI until Legion uploaded Reaper code into them and they used it to achieve true individually.

They would show up as Reaper to the beam. And there's no way to really know if those Geth, as not-evil as they seemed THEN, wouldn't go all Catalyst on the galaxy and take up where their "Fathers" left off.
Think of Reaper code like the Zombie Virus. You know all these people are bitten. You hope they aren't going to turn but you don't know. You have the option to utterly destroy every zombie on the planet, at the cost of every infected dieing too.

And here's a new bit of possible nightmare fuel. Did anyone notice the human husk in london seemed to gain sentience in synthesis? Could you imagine that? The last thing you remember as a human is getting impaled on a spike, then you wake up and you're nothing but metal, a skull for a face and maybe you remember all of those people you killed as a husk.

Yeah. There's a REASON all the Cybermen kill themselves once you take away the emotion inhibitor.

Yeah I was wondering about that. That particular husk seem kinda...i dunno human? Did it have its previosu memories? Is it a new creature? Can it even digest food?

Synthesis changes the paradigm of life, when civilization is just not ready for it (intergalactic war and such). Plus the Reapers are still alive.