230 réponses à ce sujet

[ArchDuck]

clennon8 wrote...

Wow, this thread sure went to crap. What a shame, considering the epic OP.

Mesina2 wrote...

^Yeah.


Please people stop with real life politics.

Those are not needed to bring up to point out problems with any ending.

I concur just ignore the crazy on the past page or two (to the best of your ability) and continue the conversation.

Modifié par ArchDuck, 30 juin 2012 - 08:25 .

[CroGamer002]

^Yeah, please do that.

[v TricKy v]

Nyoka wrote...

"Your Shepard is just like Hitler!"
"No, YOURS is Hitler!"
"Hi, I picked refusal"
"HITLER!"

I must say that Mike Godwin is a genius

[Aylyese]

v TricKy v wrote...

Nyoka wrote...

"Your Shepard is just like Hitler!"
"No, YOURS is Hitler!"
"Hi, I picked refusal"
"HITLER!"

I must say that Mike Godwin is a genius

 

Godwin FTW.

Modifié par Aylyese, 01 juillet 2012 - 06:04 .

[CroGamer002]

Really guys?

[Ryzaki]

I never understand the need for Godwinning a thread.

Anyway I everything in the OP.

[CroGamer002]

^Yeah, don't get it either.

[Stumpykins]

 
[/quote]

You're taking the word destruction too literally. In ME1, Sovereign states "we are your salvation through destruction". Neither "salvation" or "destruction" are meant to be taken literally. Also, mediating a conflict can achieve peace, but it is not the only way to achieve peace. If I killed off everyone on both sides of the war, is peace not also achieved?

we are your salvation through destruction makes more sense with the original dark enegry plot line,
since really without a cure for dark energy we could eridicate ourselfes forever.

[CroGamer002]

^Dark Energy premise alone sucked.

And debunked by Drew himself for being planned from start.

[Jeb231]

Tricia Helfer > Tumblr

[RadicalDisconnect]

I disagree with some of the points in that post. Too lazy to write a response.

Anyways, each to his/her own.

Modifié par RadicalDisconnect, 03 juillet 2012 - 10:50 .

[DRTJR]

Jade8aby88 wrote...

mauro2222 wrote...

Garrus has the best hip movement.

On topic. Immortality... EDI doesn't have DNA or cells in her body, she can't die from age. We only need to alter a gene to grant immortality, the one who limits the reproductive capability of the cells.

Javiik's is funny.

On topic- well thought out, lot of contradictions there.

I found Joker to be the funniest.

On a more serious topic I've never been comfortable with the giving of everything we'll ever need in Synthesis

[Pacifien]

Mesina2 wrote...
Because whoever wrote Synthesis doesn't understand how evolution works.

At some point, civilization overcomes the process of natural selection through the use of technology, thus circumventing the nature of evolution where environment is the main determining factor. At that point, a civilization's ability to evolve is limited by their technological capabilities.

That's where you get into the concept of technological singularity, where the advancement of technology pushes beyond the limits that can be understood as you are right now. A good writer that covers this concept is Vernor Vinge in his novel Fire Upon the Deep.

The Catalyst, I imagine, was trying to describe as that type of advancement, one that couldn't be understood unless you went through it. Thing is, not everyone given the choice to become something unknowable is keen to take the offer, and this offer was given without the choice.

In which case, you could view it as an asteroid hitting the Earth millions of years ago. No one wanted to evolve then, I'm sure, but they had to.

And while I chose Synthesis for one of my Shepards, I don't actually view it as an "Everyone's Happy" scenario. Somewhere out there is a husk that will remember what it was and now understands what it became, and it can't be happy about that. The epilogue might show one thing, but Dragon Age showed me the meaning of epilogues.

[Memnon]

I loved the comparison with the Tranquil mages in DA, especially the encounter with Karl in DA2. And the point about Javik not being Javik because he hasn't spaced himself is a salient one as well ... Synthesis is the least appealing option to me, by far

[Pacifien]

Stornskar wrote...
And the point about Javik not being Javik because he hasn't spaced himself is a salient one as well ...

That would indicate that Javik under no circumstances would be able to understand and change his mind. Which is a valid point, perhaps he never would have. Legion and EDI to him would have always just been machines, threats to be airlocked.

In fact, should Javik look at his memory shard, he admits that he would feel no purpose after the Reapers are defeated. Synthesis or no, perhaps he went to find his lost comrades and committed suicide, so the idea of him spacing himself is a moot point.

What he does if he didn't look at his memory shard and looked forward to seeing a world with peace, well... I say he started a resistence movement.

[ADLegend21]

Earthborn_Shepard wrote...

True.

Just one thing. If synthesis was the natural form of evolution...
then why doesn't it happen by itself? Why does it have to be forced?

It's speedin up evolution. Tehre was a point where all life were fish.No bugs, mammals, or anything else, just underwater life. Over time things moved to land and hey adapted. Oragnics being adapted to technology(just like Shepard with their heavy skin, bone, and muscle weaves and metalic reinforced bones), and Synthetics are gaining emotional understanding and the ability to have emotions.

[Ryzaki]

Pacifien wrote...

Stornskar wrote...
And the point about Javik not being Javik because he hasn't spaced himself is a salient one as well ...

That would indicate that Javik under no circumstances would be able to understand and change his mind. Which is a valid point, perhaps he never would have. Legion and EDI to him would have always just been machines, threats to be airlocked.

In fact, should Javik look at his memory shard, he admits that he would feel no purpose after the Reapers are defeated. Synthesis or no, perhaps he went to find his lost comrades and committed suicide, so the idea of him spacing himself is a moot point.

What he does if he didn't look at his memory shard and looked forward to seeing a world with peace, well... I say he started a resistence movement.

I don't think he wanted to see a world of peace where the beings that subjected him to unimaginable horrors are skipping around scott free because they got what they wanted. Just saying.

Modifié par Ryzaki, 04 juillet 2012 - 12:59 .

[JamieCOTC]

Catalyst: Now that we know it is possible, synthesis is inevitable.
Shepard: Then it's over. That's the solution. We all evolve naturally toward synthesis. You can rid the galaxy of the Reapers and we can all go home.
Catalyst: ...
Catalyst: No, but ... you have to pick a color.
Shepard: @$%#!!!

[Codename_Code]

I didn't ask for this - Adam Jensen from Deus ex.

[Ericus]

ADLegend21 wrote...

Earthborn_Shepard wrote...

True.

Just one thing. If synthesis was the natural form of evolution...
then why doesn't it happen by itself? Why does it have to be forced?

It's speedin up evolution. Tehre was a point where all life were fish.No bugs, mammals, or anything else, just underwater life. Over time things moved to land and hey adapted. Oragnics being adapted to technology(just like Shepard with their heavy skin, bone, and muscle weaves and metalic reinforced bones), and Synthetics are gaining emotional understanding and the ability to have emotions.

But we didn't evolve towards just one thing over the past 250 million years.  There's a huge variety of life on this planet, with humans just being one outcome.  Some lifeforms have 'suceeded' while others have gone extinct.  All part of the natural evolutionary process.  

From what I can tell of Synthesis, everyone would be evolving towards the same thing.  Apart from the huge risk of galactic stagnation, what would happen if something came along that attacked a specific genetic trait?  If everyone in the galaxy has the same trait, you'd risk all lifeforms being wiped out by a plague.

[Pacifien]

Ryzaki wrote...
I don't think he wanted to see a world of peace where the beings that subjected him to unimaginable horrors are skipping around scott free because they got what they wanted. Just saying.

I don't think Synthesis was what the Reapers wanted either. It's what the Catalyst wanted because it fulfilled its programming's goal.

I wouldn't base Javik's mindset on one cutscene where he honors a fallen comrade, anyway. What he did after that is an unknown and subject to one's personal head canon. Unless you just absolutely hate being left to develop your own head canon. Or you didn't choose Synthesis, which is fine.

[Pacifien]

Ericus wrote...
From what I can tell of Synthesis, everyone would be evolving towards the same thing.  Apart from the huge risk of galactic stagnation, what would happen if something came along that attacked a specific genetic trait?  If everyone in the galaxy has the same trait, you'd risk all lifeforms being wiped out by a plague.

From what I can tell, Synthesis allowed organics integration with synthetics and gave synthetics understanding of organics, but I don't see how that means they will evolve into the same thing.

But I also believe that the Geth and Heretics developed their schism naturally and without Sovereign's direct influence, which some people attribute to a math error. (I've had this argument before, I know what the math error was in reference to, and no, I'm not having this argument again.) So I believe that synthetics can be divergent. In any case, Legion expresses confusion that the Heretics had become so different in their separation from the Geth, which was marked by their different path. In order for everyone to evolve toward the same thing, you must ensure that there will be no division in the way.

As for attacking a specific genetic trait or even specific technological code, that's what the Salarians are for. No, I'm kidding. But escaping a plague probably makes for a good story.

[Ryzaki]

Pacifien wrote...
I don't think Synthesis was what the Reapers wanted either. It's what the Catalyst wanted because it fulfilled its programming's goal.

I wouldn't base Javik's mindset on one cutscene where he honors a fallen comrade, anyway. What he did after that is an unknown and subject to one's personal head canon. Unless you just absolutely hate being left to develop your own head canon. Or you didn't choose Synthesis, which is fine.

Considering the Catalyst claims he controls the Reapers I somehow am pretty sure they're okay with this.

I just don't see him honoring Shepard at all after that. But YMMV obviously. I just don't see that as remotely in character for Javik. And I do not choose Synthesis. As for personal HC it seems everytime I want to make one (Reject) BW decides to crush my dreams via Tweets.

[What a Succulent Ass]

From what I can tell, Synthesis allowed organics integration with synthetics and gave synthetics understanding of organics, but I don't see how that means they will evolve into the same thing.

I would agree that synthesis has been retconned into this, but the Catalyst (IIRC) still claims it will create a "new DNA." Even if it doesn't, the epilogue clearly displays "synthetic DNA," so the implications are the same.

Honestly, I'm done trying to understand it.

In order for everyone to evolve toward the same thing, you must ensure that there will be no division in the way.

Considering the Panglossian, freaky utopic overtones, I think this was the general idea. "Peace" evidently is achieved by forcing every one to think exactly alike.

Modifié par Random Jerkface, 04 juillet 2012 - 04:01 .

[Memnon]

Random Jerkface wrote...
Considering the Panglossian, freaky utopic overtones, I think this was the general idea. "Peace" evidently is achieved by forcing every one to think exactly alike.

This is something I've asked about Synthesis and haven't received an answer - what happens if there are disagreements between synthesized entities? Are the problems solved via consensus, and is one party 'forced' to go with the decision? Can groups splinter, or are they completely bereft of free-will and independence?