132 réponses à ce sujet

[Mavqt]

mrcanada wrote...

Enhanced wrote...

mrcanada wrote...

It was the best and probably is still the best of the three.  It also shows that Shepard being alive within the framework of the ending is impossible.  Shepard CANNOT survive re-entry, a fact already proven by him dying in Mass Effect 2, so the breath scene is basically nonsense for nonsense's sake now.

The only way the breath scene made any sense was within the construct of the Indoctrination Theory.  Since IT is unfortunately not true, the breath scene has become stupid.

The breath scene isn't nonsense, he's still on the Citadel.

No he isn't, the CItadel is destoyed and that is concrete and rubble akin to what's on earth.  Nothing what is shown is made out of what the Citadel is.  Even if it is the Citadel, Shepard can't survive an explosion of that magnitude right in his face, he isn't superman!!!!

In my Destroy ending the citadel was mostly intact, i believe the "rubble" to be a the remains of conduit you shoot, since if you watch the start of the "Cinematic"(or whatever you want to call it) there is alot of rubble that looks like concrete even though it is not. and the dull lighting in the breating scene is proberly just the citedel running on back-up power or life support if you will. Anyway enough of my rambling

[d-boy15]

are people still taking catalyst logic seriously? I think EC make it clear that all is just
his creator theory (that eventually bite them in the ass...). He was created to bring the
peace but he can't archieve it. so, he use reaper solution.

synthetic wipe out organic never happen, catalyst gone insane and wipe out both side
before anything happen, there may be peace or not, we never know.

[PanzerGr3nadier]

CHALET wrote...

The only reason people like the Geth is because of Legion. People were quite happy to gun them down by the truck load in ME1.

*Raises hand*

Gunning Geth down was the sweetest thing in ME!!

I too felt that Destroy was the right thing to do. Even if it meant death of EDI and Geth. Synthetics can never be "alive" in a way that organics do and I wasn't going to let the Reaper threat exist!

[Br00t4l]

tyrvas wrote...

Br00t4l wrote...

withneelandi wrote...

I see destroy as the best option from 4 very unpleasant options.

I couldn't in all honestly choose synthesis. I don't believe it is right for one individual to choose to change the biological make-up of every being in the galaxy on the word of a AI that has been responsible for systematically wiping out billions of people every few thousand years. It doesn't allow for any sort of self determination or free choice. It may create a sort of peace but it is peace through a sort of forced uniformity not through understanding and cooperation.

As a "solution" I see it as no more morally sound the catalysts previous "lets make robots that wipe galactic society out in case it makes robots that destroy galactic society" solution.

Control, is equally flawed. The cinematic seems to show all being well, but there are far too many "what if" scenarios. If you allow the reapers to survive, what if someone else finds a way yo controll them? Bad times i'd wager, what if they eventually rebel and refuse to follow god-sheps orders or similarly what if god-shep eventually goes crazy and comes out with a similar reaper type solution to some yet to surface galactic crisis.

Destroy ends the threat of the reapers, for good, but it also wipes out the geth and EDI. That is a horrible cost, but it is there because both edi and the geth now have elements of reaper tech and programming built into them. They have independent thought and "souls" because of elements of the reaper code now built into them, I can't help but worry about that. In many ways as un pleasant as it may seem perhaps to truly wipe out the reaper threat to galactic society you do have to destroy edi and the geth as allowing them to survive may provide a "way back" down the line for the reapers.

That I believe is how my Sheapard would rationalise his decision to choose destroy. He's a soldier and his mission was to destroy the reapers, destroy was the only option that allowed him to do achieve that.

I agree that the Destroy option is the best solution - to me. Just an assumption, EDI and Legion were pretty much human like before the Reaper involvement. With the Destroy option there are TONS of Reaper debris. Don't you think it could take a few Scientists to examine one and potentially make another? Or use that tech to imprint on future AIs?

I would assume that the DESTROY option would make all reaper tech unusable,
but then who made the relays? cause now they can be rebuilt.

Yeah, one can't help but ponder haha. General Hackitt does say that they are going to rebuild everything, so who knows! I guess, there are just different ways to think of it. Not to mention the Illusive man did seem to figure out the Reapers and some of their technology.

[MissMaster_2]

Um sorry but what has Shepard been trying to do for years? Destroy the Reapers, that is what Shepard would do. The other endings feel like Shepard compromising and Shepard would not do that.

Modifié par MissMaster_2, 29 juin 2012 - 05:29 .

[jli84]

Bomma72 wrote...

Enhanced wrote...

Destroy is bad. It is just a temporary solution. Synthetics will eventually try to wipe out all organics, and the reapers won't be around to stop them.
 
"...the peace won't last. Soon your children will create synthetics, and then the chaos will come back."

This, you don't win with destroy.

People still sees this as fact, even when its confirmed that the catalyst is just an AI? How would he know?
And all that mumbo jumbo about peace with synthesis? Ok, so we're all the same and understand one another, so there will be no war. Has to be this way, just look at the peacefull coexistence between humans...

As long as there is still free will (and synthesis doesnt alter everyones mindset completely) **** is gonna go down, and the reapers will be in the middle of it.

[Lz3.Flanker]

The reason I like control is that I want the reapers to rebuild the mass relays ASAP, as well as no losing the collective knowledge of previous civilizations. A possible solution would be to send all the reapers to self destruction at a sun or black hole after reconstruction, however, could Shepard AI take that choice? Or would he try to survive forever, possibly risking corruption.

That's the problem.

Overal, I believe this is like the collectors base issue, where you couldn't left that abomination to continue to exist. I say, boas the reapers, EDI and geth are collateral damage...

[Bomma72]

jli84 wrote...

Bomma72 wrote...

Enhanced wrote...

Destroy is bad. It is just a temporary solution. Synthetics will eventually try to wipe out all organics, and the reapers won't be around to stop them.
 
"...the peace won't last. Soon your children will create synthetics, and then the chaos will come back."

This, you don't win with destroy.

People still sees this as fact, even when its confirmed that the catalyst is just an AI? How would he know?
And all that mumbo jumbo about peace with synthesis? Ok, so we're all the same and understand one another, so there will be no war. Has to be this way, just look at the peacefull coexistence between humans...

As long as there is still free will (and synthesis doesnt alter everyones mindset completely) **** is gonna go down, and the reapers will be in the middle of it.

 

Synthesis destroys free will the moment you force the choice on everyone.  At that very moment there is not free will in the galaxy at all, just shepards and the catalyst.

[jli84]

Bomma72 wrote...

jli84 wrote...

Bomma72 wrote...

Enhanced wrote...

Destroy is bad. It is just a temporary solution. Synthetics will eventually try to wipe out all organics, and the reapers won't be around to stop them.
 
"...the peace won't last. Soon your children will create synthetics, and then the chaos will come back."

This, you don't win with destroy.

People still sees this as fact, even when its confirmed that the catalyst is just an AI? How would he know?
And all that mumbo jumbo about peace with synthesis? Ok, so we're all the same and understand one another, so there will be no war. Has to be this way, just look at the peacefull coexistence between humans...

As long as there is still free will (and synthesis doesnt alter everyones mindset completely) **** is gonna go down, and the reapers will be in the middle of it.

 

Synthesis destroys free will the moment you force the choice on everyone.  At that very moment there is not free will in the galaxy at all, just shepards and the catalyst.

Good times  

[CuseGirl]

Most people I hear complaining about the Destroy ending say that Shepard still commits genocide and sort of betrays his new found friendship with EDI. Also, some say that you're still sort of siding with the Catalyst because eradicating any group of people is one of his methods for solving the conflict.

For me personally, I choose Destroy because:

#1 Shepard can live. Yes, this is a selfish reason. I am a casual gamer. I equate dying with losing. I want to live and head canon a reunion with Miranda. So I chose Destroy.

#2. It's the only option where the Reapers are dead. Throughout these 3 games, the player works toward stopping the Reapers and let's be real, no one, not a casual ME fan or a nerdy existential thinking fan on here thought they were going to control the Reapers until the endings became public. NO ONE. We all bought ME-3 because we thought we were going to kill them. That's what I set out to do. So I choose Destroy.

Only until after the other options became publicly known did people decide there was some merit in not choosing the "Kill the Reapers" option.

[Mavqt]

Bomma72 wrote...

jli84 wrote...

Bomma72 wrote...

Enhanced wrote...

Destroy is bad. It is just a temporary solution. Synthetics will eventually try to wipe out all organics, and the reapers won't be around to stop them.
 
"...the peace won't last. Soon your children will create synthetics, and then the chaos will come back."

This, you don't win with destroy.

People still sees this as fact, even when its confirmed that the catalyst is just an AI? How would he know?
And all that mumbo jumbo about peace with synthesis? Ok, so we're all the same and understand one another, so there will be no war. Has to be this way, just look at the peacefull coexistence between humans...

As long as there is still free will (and synthesis doesnt alter everyones mindset completely) **** is gonna go down, and the reapers will be in the middle of it.

 

Synthesis destroys free will the moment you force the choice on everyone.  At that very moment there is not free will in the galaxy at all, just shepards and the catalyst.

didnt the catalyst say something like "We tried synthesis in a previous cycle, but they were'nt ready" then he later says something along the lies of "You can't force synthesis" that right there stopped me from picking it(truth be told, i have only picked destroy ) so maybe the races will achieve it on there own terms.

Modifié par mavqt, 29 juin 2012 - 05:41 .

[AxStapleton]

Bomma72 wrote...

jli84 wrote...

Bomma72 wrote...

Enhanced wrote...

Destroy is bad. It is just a temporary solution. Synthetics will eventually try to wipe out all organics, and the reapers won't be around to stop them.
 
"...the peace won't last. Soon your children will create synthetics, and then the chaos will come back."

This, you don't win with destroy.

People still sees this as fact, even when its confirmed that the catalyst is just an AI? How would he know?
And all that mumbo jumbo about peace with synthesis? Ok, so we're all the same and understand one another, so there will be no war. Has to be this way, just look at the peacefull coexistence between humans...

As long as there is still free will (and synthesis doesnt alter everyones mindset completely) **** is gonna go down, and the reapers will be in the middle of it.

 

Synthesis destroys free will the moment you force the choice on everyone.  At that very moment there is not free will in the galaxy at all, just shepards and the catalyst.

And this is seen as good? They might as well not be aware beings at all if that's the case.

[KingZayd]

Destroy is good. A permanent solution to the Reapers.

[jpraelster93]

Good

[WYLDMAXX]

PanzerGr3nadier wrote...

CHALET wrote...

The only reason people like the Geth is because of Legion. People were quite happy to gun them down by the truck load in ME1.

*Raises hand*

Gunning Geth down was the sweetest thing in ME!!

I too felt that Destroy was the right thing to do. Even if it meant death of EDI and Geth. Synthetics can never be "alive" in a way that organics do and I wasn't going to let the Reaper threat exist!

+2

Legion in ME2 would disagree with Legion in ME3 choice of using the Reaper code.  That was not part of the plan.

[Jackums]

"Good" and "bad" are human concepts and are entirely subjective.

In terms of the most beneficial endings; Synthesis > Control > Destroy.


That aside, anything can be argued, as it's all opinion-based.

[Mavqt]

WYLDMAXX wrote...

PanzerGr3nadier wrote...

CHALET wrote...

The only reason people like the Geth is because of Legion. People were quite happy to gun them down by the truck load in ME1.

*Raises hand*

Gunning Geth down was the sweetest thing in ME!!

I too felt that Destroy was the right thing to do. Even if it meant death of EDI and Geth. Synthetics can never be "alive" in a way that organics do and I wasn't going to let the Reaper threat exist!

+2

Legion in ME2 would disagree with Legion in ME3 choice of using the Reaper code.  That was not part of the plan.

Legion didn't really have a choice did he, with the Quarians attacking thier mega structure, Live or die, with him being AI, he only calculates the odds of siding with the reapers or not, so siding with the Reapers then is the only option for survial. And already having the reaper code uploaded to him by the time Shepard and crew meet him in the dreadnaught mission. And so is a "true" AI by the time of the reaper being destroyed on Rannoch, plus since he's the avatar of the geth consensus, believing uploading himself to be the best for the geth. Sort of reminds me of Ashleys' grandfather, Surrender to the turians or die.

Edit: Hasn't he already used reaper tech before? In his loyalyy mission in ME2?

Modifié par mavqt, 29 juin 2012 - 06:09 .

[Fauxnormal]

Adamantium93 wrote...

I liked control better because I don't like the thought of a universe without Geth and I couldn't bear to kill EDI.

CHALET wrote...
Geth can be rebuilt. Star Child and Hackett claim they have the technology to do so. Organics? Not so much.
 

1. The Quarians won't risk another Geth uprising
2. You can't recreate their sentience.

1. Stupid assumption

2. Uh. Yeah. You can.

[WYLDMAXX]

mavqt wrote...

WYLDMAXX wrote...

PanzerGr3nadier wrote...

CHALET wrote...

The only reason people like the Geth is because of Legion. People were quite happy to gun them down by the truck load in ME1.

*Raises hand*

Gunning Geth down was the sweetest thing in ME!!

I too felt that Destroy was the right thing to do. Even if it meant death of EDI and Geth. Synthetics can never be "alive" in a way that organics do and I wasn't going to let the Reaper threat exist!

+2

Legion in ME2 would disagree with Legion in ME3 choice of using the Reaper code.  That was not part of the plan.

He didn't really have a choice did he, with the Quarians attacking thier mega structure, Live or die, with him being AI, he only calculates the odds of siding with the reapers or not. And already having the reaper code uploaded to him by the time Shepard and crew meet him in the dreadnaught mission. And so is a "true" AI by the time of reaper being destroyed on Rannoch, plus since he's the avatar of the geth consensus, believing uploading himself to be the best for the geth. Sort of reminds me of Ashleys' grandfather, Surrender to the turians or die.

  What keeps the Reapers from accessing the Geth and changing the result by .00001 and thus becoming pawns to the Reapers?

Legion was playing with fire and the Geth got burned for it.

[Aedan276]

The endings are less about Shepard's alignment and more about existential perplexity. Even a full Renegade Shepard could choose Synthesis if they saw as a way to get rid of the weaknesses and limitations of all the beings he has encountered throughout his adventures, and he wouldn't have any problem about rewriting their fundamental natures either because he doesn't necessarily respect consent or the evolutionary process the way a Paragon would. 

Super-Paragon Shepards can justify 'Destroy' on the grounds that they don't want to rewrite the fundamental nature of all beings. They might believe there will one day be peace between Synthetics and Organics, but through cultural exchange, not through a radical alteration of the nature of life. And they don't choose 'Control' because they don't believe the power of the Reapers should exist or that a single being should exercise it. 

'Destroy' takes some of the magic out of the galaxy (from a Super-Paragon perspective), but it upholds the right of self-determination for all beings that come afterward. 

[Lisa_H]

I would not call in a good ending, but it is much better than the other two. Controlling the reapers will never end well, and in my opinion it is better to destory the geth, than violate all life in the galaxy

[Mavqt]

WYLDMAXX wrote...

mavqt wrote...

WYLDMAXX wrote...

PanzerGr3nadier wrote...

CHALET wrote...

The only reason people like the Geth is because of Legion. People were quite happy to gun them down by the truck load in ME1.

*Raises hand*

Gunning Geth down was the sweetest thing in ME!!

I too felt that Destroy was the right thing to do. Even if it meant death of EDI and Geth. Synthetics can never be "alive" in a way that organics do and I wasn't going to let the Reaper threat exist!

+2

Legion in ME2 would disagree with Legion in ME3 choice of using the Reaper code.  That was not part of the plan.

He didn't really have a choice did he, with the Quarians attacking thier mega structure, Live or die, with him being AI, he only calculates the odds of siding with the reapers or not. And already having the reaper code uploaded to him by the time Shepard and crew meet him in the dreadnaught mission. And so is a "true" AI by the time of reaper being destroyed on Rannoch, plus since he's the avatar of the geth consensus, believing uploading himself to be the best for the geth. Sort of reminds me of Ashleys' grandfather, Surrender to the turians or die.

  What keeps the Reapers from accessing the Geth and changing the result by .00001 and thus becoming pawns to the Reapers?

Legion was playing with fire and the Geth got burned for it.

Why didnt they just do that to start with? seems to me they can't hack the geth since the heretics went freely to them with the false promise of the "future". I think they would be harder to hack after the reaper upgrades, since they didn't hack legion prior to all the geth getting the upgrade.

As legion tell us after the raid on the dreadnaught that If the Quarians didn't attack at the time they did, he wouldn't of needed to side with reapers. But thats just the storytelling aspect otherwise they proberly would of widdled eath other down to nearly nothing, something like the "Morning war" the quarians would of just retreated and gone back to being the galaxies gypsies.

[Moirai]

I fail to see how anyone can consider that an AI and its 'minions' who have been responsible for the brutal deaths of trillions of organic beings has, through some clearly retarded and broken logic, got the very best interests of organics at heart...

They have proven beyond a shadow of a doubt that they do not.

Besides, no one 'species' has the right to decide the fate of every other species, which is *exactly* what the Reapers are doing. Their audacity and arrogance is beyond the pale.

Destroy is the only sensible option, and the only one which allows us to take back full control of our own destinies.

I'm sorry, Mr Catalyst, but we're not going to play your dumb manipulative games any more.

Just die...


EDIT: For typos...

Modifié par Moirai, 29 juin 2012 - 06:39 .

[WYLDMAXX]

mavqt wrote...

WYLDMAXX wrote...

mavqt wrote...

WYLDMAXX wrote...

PanzerGr3nadier wrote...

CHALET wrote...

The only reason people like the Geth is because of Legion. People were quite happy to gun them down by the truck load in ME1.

*Raises hand*

Gunning Geth down was the sweetest thing in ME!!

I too felt that Destroy was the right thing to do. Even if it meant death of EDI and Geth. Synthetics can never be "alive" in a way that organics do and I wasn't going to let the Reaper threat exist!

+2

Legion in ME2 would disagree with Legion in ME3 choice of using the Reaper code.  That was not part of the plan.

He didn't really have a choice did he, with the Quarians attacking thier mega structure, Live or die, with him being AI, he only calculates the odds of siding with the reapers or not. And already having the reaper code uploaded to him by the time Shepard and crew meet him in the dreadnaught mission. And so is a "true" AI by the time of reaper being destroyed on Rannoch, plus since he's the avatar of the geth consensus, believing uploading himself to be the best for the geth. Sort of reminds me of Ashleys' grandfather, Surrender to the turians or die.

  What keeps the Reapers from accessing the Geth and changing the result by .00001 and thus becoming pawns to the Reapers?

Legion was playing with fire and the Geth got burned for it.

Why didnt they just do that to start with? seems to me they can't hack the geth since the heretics went freely to them with the false promise of the "future". I think they would be harder to hack after the reaper upgrades, since they didn't hack legion prior to all the geth getting the upgrade.

As legion tell us after the raid on the dreadnaught that If the Quarians didn't attack at the time they did, he wouldn't of needed to side with reapers. But thats just the storytelling aspect otherwise they proberly would of widdled eath other down to nearly nothing, something like the "Morning war" the quarians would of just retreated and gone back to being the galaxies gypsies.

Heretics were going to change the result with a virus so the Geth would follow the Reapers but Legion used their own virus againt them. There is also Project Overlord mission where a human had control of the Geth. So yes, the Geth can be hacked. 
Legion was being used to transmit the Reaper control signal from the Dreadnought even with the upgrade so it stands to reason the Reaper are more than capable of manipulating the Geth.
 

[KrazyKiko]

To quote the original ME TV Spot: "Many decisions lie ahead. None of them easy." Sacraficing EDI...especially after watching the "Synthesis" ending... certainly wasn't easy.. But ultimately, the goal was the end of the Reaper giants. And Destroy is all about "Bringing Down the Giant"...