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Destroy Ending. Good or Bad?


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#101
Ridwan

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Any ending where the Reapers die, and the relays remain intact, is a good ending.

#102
Mavqt

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WYLDMAXX wrote...

mavqt wrote...

WYLDMAXX wrote...

mavqt wrote...

WYLDMAXX wrote...

PanzerGr3nadier wrote...

CHALET wrote...

The only reason people like the Geth is because of Legion. People were quite happy to gun them down by the truck load in ME1.


*Raises hand*

Gunning Geth down was the sweetest thing in ME!!

I too felt that Destroy was the right thing to do. Even if it meant death of EDI and Geth. Synthetics can never be "alive" in a way that organics do and I wasn't going to let the Reaper threat exist!

+2

Legion in ME2 would disagree with Legion in ME3 choice of using the Reaper code.  That was not part of the plan.


He didn't really have a choice did he, with the Quarians attacking thier mega structure, Live or die, with him being AI, he only calculates the odds of siding with the reapers or not. And already having the reaper code uploaded to him by the time Shepard and crew meet him in the dreadnaught mission. And so is a "true" AI by the time of reaper being destroyed on Rannoch, plus since he's the avatar of the geth consensus, believing uploading himself to be the best for the geth. Sort of reminds me of Ashleys' grandfather, Surrender to the turians or die.

  What keeps the Reapers from accessing the Geth and changing the result by .00001 and thus becoming pawns to the Reapers?

Legion was playing with fire and the Geth got burned for it.


Why didnt they just do that to start with? seems to me they can't hack the geth since the heretics went freely to them with the false promise of the "future". I think they would be harder to hack after the reaper upgrades, since they didn't hack legion prior to all the geth getting the upgrade.

As legion tell us after the raid on the dreadnaught that If the Quarians didn't attack at the time they did, he wouldn't of needed to side with reapers. But thats just the storytelling aspect otherwise they proberly would of widdled eath other down to nearly nothing, something like the "Morning war" the quarians would of just retreated and gone back to being the galaxies gypsies.




Heretics were going to change the result with a virus so the Geth would follow the Reapers but Legion used their own virus againt them. There is also Project Overlord mission where a human had control of the Geth. So yes, the Geth can be hacked. 
Legion was being used to transmit the Reaper control signal from the Dreadnought even with the upgrade so it stands to reason the Reaper are more than capable of manipulating the Geth.
 


In that case, why didn't the Reapers hack the Geth while we attacked earth or hacked them instead of asking them during the Quarian/Geth conflict. That would of been a kick in the quad, bringing peace to the Geth and the Quarians just to get out flanked by aload of hacked Geth.

And yeah totally forgot about project overlord, sorry. "The squareroot of 906.01 equals 30.1" or whatever, however I was happy to see David at grissom, although wish I would have killed Gavin in me2, atleast he became somewhat helpfull.

#103
Mavqt

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M25105 wrote...

Any ending where the Reapers die, and the relays remain intact, is a good ending.


The relays don't reamin intact in any of the endings I believe that they are damaged in all of them. And yes a only good reaper is a dead reaper. "We destroy them, or they detroy us."

#104
TudorWolf

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Destroy is fine, I don't agree with murdering all the geth and EDI, but fundamentally it's not bad.

Still though, the rebuilding thing strikes me as a bit too easy. A big point of the citadel and relays is that we know little to nothing about them because the reapers made them that way. But damaging them is okay! We can rebuild without any trouble!

And I still have issues with the breath scene. We know Shep has loads of implants, which the ending would suggest have to be gone offline since all technology and synthetics are affected on some level... So Shep is surviving the citadel explosions, possible reentry and his implants going offline, and this is all after being critically injured. How is this reconcilable?

#105
Mavqt

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TudorWolf wrote...

Destroy is fine, I don't agree with murdering all the geth and EDI, but fundamentally it's not bad.

Still though, the rebuilding thing strikes me as a bit too easy. A big point of the citadel and relays is that we know little to nothing about them because the reapers made them that way. But damaging them is okay! We can rebuild without any trouble!

And I still have issues with the breath scene. We know Shep has loads of implants, which the ending would suggest have to be gone offline since all technology and synthetics are affected on some level... So Shep is surviving the citadel explosions, possible reentry and his implants going offline, and this is all after being critically injured. How is this reconcilable?


They will proberly say or do something thats keeps the Keepers alive or maybe data mining the many Reapers just floating around mite give the races the infomation to rebuild the citedel and relays.

I also have issues with the breathing scene, but mine are only to the timescale between the explosion to the scene. I think that if shepards implants got fried in destroy, howcome the ships still work (The Normandy and etc). the implants don't have a mind of thier own like the Geth and EDI, just are more like a computer or maybe in same cases a life-support machine.

Edit: And does Shepard still need the implants still? I can't remember off the top of my head if anyone in ME3 explains that they are keeping her/him alive.

Modifié par mavqt, 29 juin 2012 - 07:33 .


#106
WYLDMAXX

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mavqt wrote...

WYLDMAXX wrote...

mavqt wrote...

WYLDMAXX wrote...

mavqt wrote...

WYLDMAXX wrote...

PanzerGr3nadier wrote...

CHALET wrote...

The only reason people like the Geth is because of Legion. People were quite happy to gun them down by the truck load in ME1.


*Raises hand*

Gunning Geth down was the sweetest thing in ME!!

I too felt that Destroy was the right thing to do. Even if it meant death of EDI and Geth. Synthetics can never be "alive" in a way that organics do and I wasn't going to let the Reaper threat exist!

+2

Legion in ME2 would disagree with Legion in ME3 choice of using the Reaper code.  That was not part of the plan.


He didn't really have a choice did he, with the Quarians attacking thier mega structure, Live or die, with him being AI, he only calculates the odds of siding with the reapers or not. And already having the reaper code uploaded to him by the time Shepard and crew meet him in the dreadnaught mission. And so is a "true" AI by the time of reaper being destroyed on Rannoch, plus since he's the avatar of the geth consensus, believing uploading himself to be the best for the geth. Sort of reminds me of Ashleys' grandfather, Surrender to the turians or die.

  What keeps the Reapers from accessing the Geth and changing the result by .00001 and thus becoming pawns to the Reapers?

Legion was playing with fire and the Geth got burned for it.


Why didnt they just do that to start with? seems to me they can't hack the geth since the heretics went freely to them with the false promise of the "future". I think they would be harder to hack after the reaper upgrades, since they didn't hack legion prior to all the geth getting the upgrade.

As legion tell us after the raid on the dreadnaught that If the Quarians didn't attack at the time they did, he wouldn't of needed to side with reapers. But thats just the storytelling aspect otherwise they proberly would of widdled eath other down to nearly nothing, something like the "Morning war" the quarians would of just retreated and gone back to being the galaxies gypsies.




Heretics were going to change the result with a virus so the Geth would follow the Reapers but Legion used their own virus againt them. There is also Project Overlord mission where a human had control of the Geth. So yes, the Geth can be hacked. 
Legion was being used to transmit the Reaper control signal from the Dreadnought even with the upgrade so it stands to reason the Reaper are more than capable of manipulating the Geth.
 


In that case, why didn't the Reapers hack the Geth while we attacked earth or hacked them instead of asking them during the Quarian/Geth conflict. That would of been a kick in the quad, bringing peace to the Geth and the Quarians just to get out flanked by aload of hacked Geth.



At this point its a matter of speculation concerning the Geth and Reapers.

But the Geth turning on the fleet would have been something to see in the refuse ending of the game.  


Catalyst: "SO BE IT!"
Mean while on Hackett's Flagship
Officer: "Sir, the Geth are attacking!"
Hackett: "Tell them to support the left flank."
Officer: "Sir, they are attacking us!"
Hackett: "Oh Sh**!"

Modifié par WYLDMAXX, 29 juin 2012 - 07:52 .


#107
Xamufam

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mavqt wrote...

WYLDMAXX wrote...

mavqt wrote...

WYLDMAXX wrote...

mavqt wrote...

WYLDMAXX wrote...

PanzerGr3nadier wrote...

CHALET wrote...

The only reason people like the Geth is because of Legion. People were quite happy to gun them down by the truck load in ME1.


*Raises hand*

Gunning Geth down was the sweetest thing in ME!!

I too felt that Destroy was the right thing to do. Even if it meant death of EDI and Geth. Synthetics can never be "alive" in a way that organics do and I wasn't going to let the Reaper threat exist!

+2

Legion in ME2 would disagree with Legion in ME3 choice of using the Reaper code.  That was not part of the plan.


He didn't really have a choice did he, with the Quarians attacking thier mega structure, Live or die, with him being AI, he only calculates the odds of siding with the reapers or not. And already having the reaper code uploaded to him by the time Shepard and crew meet him in the dreadnaught mission. And so is a "true" AI by the time of reaper being destroyed on Rannoch, plus since he's the avatar of the geth consensus, believing uploading himself to be the best for the geth. Sort of reminds me of Ashleys' grandfather, Surrender to the turians or die.

  What keeps the Reapers from accessing the Geth and changing the result by .00001 and thus becoming pawns to the Reapers?

Legion was playing with fire and the Geth got burned for it.


Why didnt they just do that to start with? seems to me they can't hack the geth since the heretics went freely to them with the false promise of the "future". I think they would be harder to hack after the reaper upgrades, since they didn't hack legion prior to all the geth getting the upgrade.

As legion tell us after the raid on the dreadnaught that If the Quarians didn't attack at the time they did, he wouldn't of needed to side with reapers. But thats just the storytelling aspect otherwise they proberly would of widdled eath other down to nearly nothing, something like the "Morning war" the quarians would of just retreated and gone back to being the galaxies gypsies.




Heretics were going to change the result with a virus so the Geth would follow the Reapers but Legion used their own virus againt them. There is also Project Overlord mission where a human had control of the Geth. So yes, the Geth can be hacked. 
Legion was being used to transmit the Reaper control signal from the Dreadnought even with the upgrade so it stands to reason the Reaper are more than capable of manipulating the Geth.
 


In that case, why didn't the Reapers hack the Geth while we attacked earth or hacked them instead of asking them during the Quarian/Geth conflict. That would of been a kick in the quad, bringing peace to the Geth and the Quarians just to get out flanked by aload of hacked Geth.

And yeah totally forgot about project overlord, sorry. "The squareroot of 906.01 equals 30.1" or whatever, however I was happy to see David at grissom, although wish I would have killed Gavin in me2, atleast he became somewhat helpfull.

If the quarians died, on earth a geth will say that the reapers tried to hack them or something like that

Modifié par Troxa, 29 juin 2012 - 07:52 .


#108
Galbrant

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I have mix feelings on destroyed its the second logical choice next to refuse,,,, but it would mean believing the Catalyst inane logic and betrayed on of your allies and crew mates. Synthetic Genocide basically. Destroy is my second choice and would be the one to choose if refusal wasn't an option.

#109
Solsys

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Destroy is the only option that allows the races of the galaxy to truly evolve and "grow" as species.

At best, Control turns everyone into sheep, requiring the guidance and protection of a "Shepard". Remember in ME1, Sovereign says (paraphrased) "You base your technology on ours, evolving along paths we dictate." This doesn't change under a Control universe.  Why learn how the mass relays work, then rebuild and possibly improve them, when the Reapers will just fix it for us?  Follow that path and you eventually end up in a Morlock and Eloi society. (If you haven't read "The Time Machine" by H.G. Wells, go read it and come back.) 

At worst, the Reaper problem has been compounded. Like it or not, the cycle was simple and impartial: Kill all organic races that understand the Mass Effect, wait 50,000 years and repeat. Now their actions are dictated by a fallible organic mind. "You know those Asari are just too... blue. I hate blue. Harby, would you be a dear and clean that up for me?" Paragon Shep may not have that urge at first, but who knows how she'll be changed over the coming millennia?

Synthesis, besides the obvious moral issues with mutilating every being in the galaxy, and leaving the Reapers alive also has the complication of "Unlocking all the knowledge of the races that came before".  Knowledge that was all based on Reaper tech, which ties right back into Sovereign's quote above.

Kaidan mentions in ME1 that Gargarin station was once used for FTL research, research that ended when humans learned about the Mass Effect from the Prothean data cache on Mars. If we weren't 'given' that knowledge, it's possible that those other FTL experiments may have borne fruit and opened up an entire new fields of research.  We may have been propelled thousands of years technologically by the Protheans, but did we really evolve?  Are we experiencing a short-term rennaisance, only to be follwed by long-term stagnation?

Finally, we aren't given enough information about the nature of the organic/synthetic merger, but if it leans towards the Geth model of fully networked, immortal beings, I worry that would eventually lead to homogeneity of both culture and thought, again leading into long-term stagnation.  "New ideas? We have dismissed that claim."

Destroy is the only option that ends the corruption of the Reapers, and allows galactic civilization to eventually evolve past the preconceptions and predjudices of those that came before. It may take millennia, and it won't be easy, people will suffer and die, entire races will become extinct, but struggle is an essential part of growth, and I think long-term the galaxy will be better for it.

Modifié par Solsys, 29 juin 2012 - 09:46 .


#110
Peregrin25

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Galbrant wrote...

I have mix feelings on destroyed its the second logical choice next to refuse,,,, but it would mean believing the Catalyst inane logic and betrayed on of your allies and crew mates. Synthetic Genocide basically. Destroy is my second choice and would be the one to choose if refusal wasn't an option.


Yeah, I whole heartedly agree with you. It does suck that the Geth and EDI are sacrifieced, but in the end regardless, they are just machines. As hard as it may be to think that and cold it may seem, they are still just machines.

If I had to make that choice in reality you bet I would do it in a heart beat. Like I said in the opening post lol.

Yeah, I felt bad, but I would rather save the lives of the rest of galactic civilization so they have the choice and freedoms to live how they see fit. And if sacrificing millions of Geth to do that then so be it.

As Spock said. "The needs of the many outwheigh the needs of the few."

I can guarantee that the galactic civilization outnumbers synthetics atleast more than trillions to 1, may be even higher than that. So with that said lol. Whiping out the geth is like hardly a dent in the over all population of all organics and synthetics combined.

#111
Adamantium93

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Fauxnormal wrote...

Adamantium93 wrote...

I liked control better because I don't like the thought of a universe without Geth and I couldn't bear to kill EDI.

CHALET wrote...
Geth can be rebuilt. Star Child and Hackett claim they have the technology to do so. Organics? Not so much.
 


1. The Quarians won't risk another Geth uprising
2. You can't recreate their sentience.


1. Stupid assumption

2. Uh. Yeah. You can.


1. No, a logical assumption. A race that was forced off their planet and sentenced to generations of homelessness because of synthetic life would not want to go through it again.

2. Uh, no, you can't without the Reaper code that Legion had. Which you destroyed when you destroyed the Reapers.

#112
RockSW

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sacrificing the geth is worth it as the price for ending the reaper bull****

#113
De1ta G

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As many others have said. Destroy isn't good or bad. But it all comes down to what the other options really are. The huge thing about the other ones is that the reapers aren't destroy which doesn't necessarily mean they are stopped or defeated for good. With you control, you are an AI representation of Shepard. NOT Shepard. I can't see how you would remain in control of the reapers for very long before they control you. Synthesis, well they got what they wanted without having to harvest organics into reapers. You set out from the start to defeat the reapers for good and if that means destroying beloved synthetics, so be it.

#114
MrNose

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Solsys wrote...

Destroy is the only option that allows the races of the galaxy to truly evolve and "grow" as species.

At best, Control turns everyone into sheep, requiring the guidance and protection of a "Shepard". 


Not "At Best" at all.   Your scenario is an entirely negative interpretation of Control.  It's fine that you interpret Control that way, but don't blow smoke and say that it's the best possible interpretation.

 "At Best", Shepard's only directive is to prevent species wide extinction events and help in the immediate recovery effort to prevent starvation from species which are suddenly bereft of a Mass Relay.  "At Best' Shepard the Reaper commits entirely to the noble legacy of Shepard the human and ensures that sentient life is given he absolute freedom of choice that it deserves.  

#115
TheGreatDayne

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Now, that all really depends on how you see it...
I started at Mass Effect 2, so I'm very attached to EDI and the Geth... So choosing destroy would mean I sacrifice them, but their sacrifice will mean the defeat of the reaper.
Oh, and I'm also worried about the other species stuck on Earth. I mean, Earth is huge, but I don't think it can sustain all of those species, and there is also the rebuilding of the mass relays to worry about...

Or, I guess the other species can just fly back to their homeworld using their spaceships, but I imagine that it will take them a very long time to get back.

So, yeah, it can be both (or neither... I don't know).

#116
Ranger Jack Walker

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I know one thing: It's not good.

Whether it's bad or not is not my concern. I think there are better endings so I choose the other endings.

#117
MrNose

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mrcanada wrote...

No he isn't, the CItadel is destoyed and that is concrete and rubble akin to what's on earth.  Nothing what is shown is made out of what the Citadel is.  Even if it is the Citadel, Shepard can't survive an explosion of that magnitude right in his face, he isn't superman!!!!


Watch the EC again.  In the Shepard Lives endings, not only did they change it so that the Citadel stays largely intact, but they specifically added a slide showing a heavily damaged "city" on one of the Citadel's ruined arms...  This conveys that the rubble we see in Shepard's breath scene matches the current landscape of the Citadel itself.  

#118
RinuCZ

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Destroy choice is indeed the closest to the original goal from a bigger perspective. Organic races are stopping a menace.

Yet if you make an alliance with Geth, it's like throwing your unknowing ally into the lost battle, so you can divert an attention of enemy and hit a final blow, metaphorically speaking. Thus given the current choices, the game basically punishes you for being moral.

I didn't see Geth as machines but an another race which joined the war in the order to survive.

#119
Subject M

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Bad if you ask me. "Needless killing".

#120
Sohlito

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Argable wrote...

"good or bad" is entirely subjective.

It's the only ending I'll chose, because it's the only ending that leaves the ME universe feeling like Mass Effect, instead of some other sci-fi.


Nailed it.

#121
Goku16

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It was never about "defeating the Reapers", but about saving the galaxy from a cycle of war between synthetics and organics, that was caused by organics being xenophobic ****s. After all, as we learn later, Reapers were not "evil monsters", their goal was to SAVE organic life, not destroy it. Its clearly explainedd by the Catalyst, and later by EDI. Reapers uploaded and saved trillions of organics and syntheitcs, who live trough them, and help rebuild the galaxy. Didn't the child said the peace won't last. your children children will create synthetic and the cycle will continue if you choose destroy.

#122
Alikain

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Peregrin25 wrote...

sTARheels wrote...
Destroy was an easy choice for me. Only ending where reapers are dead. Plain and simple. My paragon sheps are horrified over the thought of synthesis and control.
As for sacrificing the geth/EDI, its that ruthless calculus garrus talked about. They will be remembered (or rebuilt if possible).
Being able to live and reunite was the icing on the cake

Yeah, it was the choice I made as well. I did pick others just to see the outcomes, but something deep down in myself it just felt wrong.
Your mention of Garrus's ruthless calculus is perfect example.
I do like the fact that even though Geth and EDI were sacrifieced, I have no prejudice in honoring them even though they are not organic. They were willing to die to fight the reapers and they also wanted them destroyed.
The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few.

Destroy was the hardest choice know that you will loose the Geth and EDI, but I think they would have approved of your action. EDI knew that when it's come to the end sacrifice herself to destroy the reapers was the right thing to do. If you think about it, if their was a way to just target the reapers and just leave the Geth and EDI alive but at the sametime destroy the reapers completely we all be doing that. But like Garru's said its better to let few here die than let the whole galaxy gt destroy.

#123
nhsknudsen

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*Destroy*

Garrus Vakarian approves +15

And he has more credentials than you, so good.

#124
Master Alenko

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Really sacrificing Geth and EDI wasn't a big deal to me. Don't get me wrong, I liked EDI and the Geth. They're machines, if you destroyed a worthless computer, would you sit with guilt thinking you killed something with emotion? Neither have emotion and all they do is what they are programmed too.

Yet, on the synthesis ending I thought it was nice to see EDI and the geth have emotion. But still the change was massive, I know I'd personally be against synthesis if I had the choice. Plus seeing Shepard burn up was sad and disgusting LOL.

As for control, I never liked the Illusive man so I didn't want to follow his path. Even if you did control them it would be all your decisions that effect the galaxy. You would essentially be a dictator.

I didn't like refusal at all. Not one single bit. I didn't like the idea of the species being wiped out.

Personally, destroy gets my vote. Plus, it was warming to see the love interest smile and hesitate to put Shepard's name on the memorial wall. Then with the final scene of Shepard breathing confirming it, I liked to see it as them getting back together sometime. Which was relatively happy for me.

#125
noobcannon

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control = TIM
synthesis = Saren

if you don't choose destroy, aren't you basically saying "meh, i guess TIM and saren were right after all, whoops."? i mean, i just don't get it.