406 réponses à ce sujet

[SNascimento]

Yes.

[Welsh Inferno]

roryw2203 wrote...

Well I kinda meant they could repair the orignal Geth who had been destroyed.  I mean if you could murder some one and it was basically a given that they could be brought back to life with a little time and expense, then I'm sure it would just be more of an annoyance than a family tragedy:

"For Christ's sake, some one just murdered Grandad again!"

"Really?  We only just finished rebuilding him!"

"Yeah!  Looks like I'm gonna have to work more shifts this week"

Man, you can repair the Geth's bodies all you like but you cannot replace the programs that made them, them. They are a fully evolved AI who's experiences have shaped them. Sure you could attempt to create a similar AI, put them into the Geth's old "bodies" and even call them Geth. But they wont be Geth, they will be completely different and will come to completely different conclusions.

[Shadowvalker]

SNascimento wrote...

Yes.

Hmm. Then I imagine you don't care for people that suffers from nickel allergy? 

[Hackulator]

roryw2203 wrote...

Hackulator wrote...

roryw2203 wrote...

Hackulator wrote...

roryw2203 wrote...

Welsh Inferno wrote...

Hackulator wrote...

People who say you can just "rebuild" all the Geth are people who are not treating them like they are actually live.

I think most of those just "head-canon" them back to life to be honest. Just so they can have their perfect ending with no consequences. 

Shepard was dead and cerberus 'rebuilt' him. Were they not treating him like he was actually alive?

Don't see how it's 'head-canon' when spacekid specifically tells you that you can repair all damages that is done.  And it wouldn't really be perfect when a bunch of your friends had died, you had to wipe out a bunch of batarian colonies before the start of the actual game just to prevent the reapers from arriving too soon.  Not really perfect in my estimation.

Shepard was revived by plot armor with an in-game cost greater than that of the entire Normandy. The galaxy will have to expend the majority of its resources just to recover from the Reaper War themselves, how much budget do you think they are going to have for reviving an entire species of evolved AI that they still don't full understand?

That wasn't the point I was arguing, I was arguing against the 'if you say you can rebuild them, you don't think they ever lived' statement.

 I'm sure most of the cost of bringing shepard back to life was because of him being an organic, bringing dead human tissue back to life would be much harder than repairing a being made of synthetic materials.  But from my understanding of how the Geth work you could repair a few of them and they would repopulate themselves anyway.  The Quarians didn't create the entire species of Geth, they created a relatively small number of them and then the Geth built the rest by themselves.  And I'm sure they would repopulate themselves for free...

Just because people can have babies doesn't mean its ok to murder people!

Crunch all you want, we'll make more!

Well I kinda meant they could repair the orignal Geth who had been destroyed.  I mean if you could murder some one and it was basically a given that they could be brought back to life with a little time and expense, then I'm sure it would just be more of an annoyance than a family tragedy:

"For Christ's sake, some one just murdered Grandad again!"

"Really?  We only just finished rebuilding him!"

"Yeah!  Looks like I'm gonna have to work more shifts this week"

Interestingly you are now directly arguing against one of the problems people claim to have against synthesis, that being the "transcend mortality" line that has people saying that immortality would ruin us. 

Regardless, I don't see any suggestion that it would be easy or even possible to rebuild the Geth. Its not like you'd even have a working model to look at. When Cerberus rebuilt Shepard they had centuries of data on humans. Nobody left would have that level of data on the Geth, ESPECIALLY since their actual full sentience only happened like, a month ago.

[Welsh Inferno]

roryw2203 wrote...

iamzer0xx wrote...

It really seems to me like people don't pay attention to these endings, and what they mean. The synthesis ending is totally misinterpreted.

How should it be interpreted?  Please share your wisdom with the rest of us idiots.

Very eloquent of you. 

If you look around this forum you will see a multitude of interpretations. But hey, just cause you refuse to see what you dont want to see doesn't make someone else an idiot.

[iamzer0xx]

roryw2203 wrote...

iamzer0xx wrote...

It really seems to me like people don't pay attention to these endings, and what they mean. The synthesis ending is totally misinterpreted.

How should it be interpreted?  Please share your wisdom with the rest of us idiots.

All life evolving into a higher being of existence, yet at the same time retaining their individualism. This is somehow a bad thing because it was forced upon us? Irreleveant point don't you think?

Seems to me you just don't like the endings, and you're over-thinking it and trying to rationalize your distaste over them. 

In no way was the Synthesis ending analogous to what Saren wanted. Saren wanted something like the Borg collective out of Star trek, the Synthesis ending was anything but that. Even the color had meaning to this ending, which I see a lot of people just spit on pre-maturely. Green comes off as a color of birth and new life in nature. Hence why there is so much greeen in the ending, it is a start of something new.

Kind of like how after a fire is purged new vegetation grows from the ashes.

Modifié par iamzer0xx, 29 juin 2012 - 08:42 .

[roryw2203]

Welsh Inferno wrote...

roryw2203 wrote...

Well I kinda meant they could repair the orignal Geth who had been destroyed.  I mean if you could murder some one and it was basically a given that they could be brought back to life with a little time and expense, then I'm sure it would just be more of an annoyance than a family tragedy:

"For Christ's sake, some one just murdered Grandad again!"

"Really?  We only just finished rebuilding him!"

"Yeah!  Looks like I'm gonna have to work more shifts this week"

Man, you can repair the Geth's bodies all you like but you cannot replace the programs that made them, them. They are a fully evolved AI who's experiences have shaped them. Sure you could attempt to create a similar AI, put them into the Geth's old "bodies" and even call them Geth. But they wont be Geth, they will be completely different and will come to completely different conclusions.

I argued against this already with the implanting of memories.  Since memories make us who we are then I assume implanting the correct memories would result in the Geth being relatively the same.

[Shadowvalker]

Synthesis: A visit to the bathroom doing Puh Puh.

No toiletpaper? - Do we Deframent our buttoms?
Would a shower cause a burnout or even a cpu overload?

[Lord Stark]

I would, but only if it involved not working with the Reapers who likely would have annihilated friends, and family at that point in the war.

[roryw2203]

Welsh Inferno wrote...

roryw2203 wrote...

iamzer0xx wrote...

It really seems to me like people don't pay attention to these endings, and what they mean. The synthesis ending is totally misinterpreted.

How should it be interpreted?  Please share your wisdom with the rest of us idiots.

Very eloquent of you. 

If you look around this forum you will see a multitude of interpretations. But hey, just cause you refuse to see what you dont want to see doesn't make someone else an idiot.

Wasn't attempting to be eloquent so that's not really an insult.

I've read the interpretations and I can see where other people are coming from.  That's why I replied how I did, being condescended to as not being able to interpret the endings 'correctly' annoys me. Don't make assumptions about what other people see or think, makes you come off as all 'high and mighty'.

[Welsh Inferno]

roryw2203 wrote...

I argued against this already with the implanting of memories.  Since memories make us who we are then I assume implanting the correct memories would result in the Geth being relatively the same.

Want to tell me where you will get these memories from? The blast effects every world in our galaxy, all Geth hubs and tech on Rannoch and wherever else they have Hubs would be fried. There are no memories. Stop trying to lessen the consequences of your favorite ending. Destroy is my joint fave ending, I know damn well that I am committing genocide though. And that Shep will have to live with that.

[Enjou]

Yes, I'd give permission. Yeah, there are a lot of people the choice would be forced on, but under the circumstances a choice is being forced no matter what. Destruction kills all synthetics, even if they aren't the "KILL ALL HUMANS!" kinds of synthetic, forcing them to die and forcing those who want to coexist with those synthetics to not be able to do so anymore. Control forces the Reapers to do what Shepard wants, and Shepard will in turn force a number of others to do what he wants. (more so if it's Renegade Control, as that one is more dictatorial) Refusal forces all the people in the cycle to fight a vain struggle which they probably can't win. Synthesis forces a change on what everyone in the galaxy is.

Reality is harsh, and no matter what there are going to be things you are forced to deal with. A growing child has no choice but to go through puberty and grow up and an adult has no choice in growing old. Those aren't necessarily bad changes, but they are changes and nobody has a choice in the matter. I view synthesis in that light. Synthesis changes every individual, but I can't say it's all that different from a child becoming an adult. The people are changed to enhance their capabilities and their capacity for understanding each other, which overall is a positive change IMO.

[roryw2203]

iamzer0xx wrote...

roryw2203 wrote...

iamzer0xx wrote...

It really seems to me like people don't pay attention to these endings, and what they mean. The synthesis ending is totally misinterpreted.

How should it be interpreted?  Please share your wisdom with the rest of us idiots.

All life evolving into a higher being of existence, yet at the same time retaining their individualism. This is somehow a bad thing because it was forced upon us? Irreleveant point don't you think?

Seems to me you just don't like the endings, and you're over-thinking it and trying to rationalize your distaste over them. 

In no way was the Synthesis ending analogous to what Saren wanted. Saren wanted something like the Borg collective out of Star trek, the Synthesis ending was anything but that. Even the color had meaning to this ending, which I see a lot of people just spit on pre-maturely. Green comes off as a color of birth and new life in nature. Hence why there is so much greeen in the ending, it is a start of something new.

Kind of like how after a fire is purged new vegetation grows from the ashes.

Don't think it's irrelevant the idea that forcing something upon the universe because you think it would be better for them isn't a good thing.  It's called dictatorship.  You think all of the dictators throughout history actively thought that what they were doing was bad for mankind?  Nope, they were doing what they thought was right.  But in all cases it qualitatively wasn't.

Don't think you can over-think something that is designed to be 'speculated' about really.  But  I don't really like any of the endings particularly, including destroy.  

Don't remember Saren saying once that he wanted a collective, just remember him stating he wanted Synthetics and Organics to combine into the pinnacle of evolution.  And you can't seriously say that the ending is good because people are kinda green now?  No matter what it represents metaphorically, imagine you waking up synthetic and your first thought is going to be: "Oh I'm green! That represents life! Awesome!"

[iamzer0xx]

Welsh Inferno wrote...

roryw2203 wrote...

I argued against this already with the implanting of memories.  Since memories make us who we are then I assume implanting the correct memories would result in the Geth being relatively the same.

Want to tell me where you will get these memories from? The blast effects every world in our galaxy, all Geth hubs and tech on Rannoch and wherever else they have Hubs would be fried. There are no memories. Stop trying to lessen the consequences of your favorite ending. Destroy is my joint fave ending, I know damn well that I am committing genocide though. And that Shep will have to live with that.

My problem with the Destroy ending is that, inherently it doesn't really solve anything, at least the threat of organic extinction. On top of that, I couldn't bring myself to commit mass extinction of the Geth and kill off EDI. If you want to talk about force, I believe forcing extinction is worse. 

the benefits of Synthesis are vastly superior for me. Preservation of the countless civilizations before, no one single civilization is forced to extinction. And the life elevated to harmonic unity.I imagine the benefits of such circumstances would greatly exceed everyones expectations.

[Spartas Husky]

Synthesis... did it work for saren. Your friends were willing to pay their lives for the cause. Are you sure as many would have come if you had asked them... hey how about we befriend the reapers?... How many would have told you your indoctrinated?

Control and Destory are the true endings. Control you control only reapers, in destroy you destroy only reapers. Nobody else is hurt, happy ending for greedy power grabbing people, and for paragons.

You believe in synthesis.... u didn't pay attention to any of the game at all. Plus you believe in eugenics which is just disgusting.

[roryw2203]

Welsh Inferno wrote...

roryw2203 wrote...

I argued against this already with the implanting of memories.  Since memories make us who we are then I assume implanting the correct memories would result in the Geth being relatively the same.

Want to tell me where you will get these memories from? The blast effects every world in our galaxy, all Geth hubs and tech on Rannoch and wherever else they have Hubs would be fried. There are no memories. Stop trying to lessen the consequences of your favorite ending. Destroy is my joint fave ending, I know damn well that I am committing genocide though. And that Shep will have to live with that.

How do you know they are fried?  I didn't see anything fried really, I just saw the reapers falling down in a heap.  No indication given that they didn't just shut down is there?  And Destroy isn't my favourite ending, I didn't care much for any of the endings.  I don't even have an order for preference of them.  It just seems to me that in all three endings it is possible for everything to be achieved that occurs within another ending.  I mean you could probably bring Shepard back to life again after all the endings.  Did it once before, why not again?

[eye basher]

No i would tell shepard to do his damm jobs and shoot the pipe.

[iamzer0xx]

roryw2203 wrote...

iamzer0xx wrote...

roryw2203 wrote...

iamzer0xx wrote...

It really seems to me like people don't pay attention to these endings, and what they mean. The synthesis ending is totally misinterpreted.

How should it be interpreted?  Please share your wisdom with the rest of us idiots.

All life evolving into a higher being of existence, yet at the same time retaining their individualism. This is somehow a bad thing because it was forced upon us? Irreleveant point don't you think?

Seems to me you just don't like the endings, and you're over-thinking it and trying to rationalize your distaste over them. 

In no way was the Synthesis ending analogous to what Saren wanted. Saren wanted something like the Borg collective out of Star trek, the Synthesis ending was anything but that. Even the color had meaning to this ending, which I see a lot of people just spit on pre-maturely. Green comes off as a color of birth and new life in nature. Hence why there is so much greeen in the ending, it is a start of something new.

Kind of like how after a fire is purged new vegetation grows from the ashes.

Don't think it's irrelevant the idea that forcing something upon the universe because you think it would be better for them isn't a good thing.  It's called dictatorship.  You think all of the dictators throughout history actively thought that what they were doing was bad for mankind?  Nope, they were doing what they thought was right.  But in all cases it qualitatively wasn't.

Don't think you can over-think something that is designed to be 'speculated' about really.  But  I don't really like any of the endings particularly, including destroy.  

Don't remember Saren saying once that he wanted a collective, just remember him stating he wanted Synthetics and Organics to combine into the pinnacle of evolution.  And you can't seriously say that the ending is good because people are kinda green now?  No matter what it represents metaphorically, imagine you waking up synthetic and your first thought is going to be: "Oh I'm green! That represents life! Awesome!"

I am a Geographer, I like green.

I also don't see who or what the dictator is here? You're alright with forcing mass extinction but you're not alright with forcing the latter? I fail to see the logic in that.

If you want to use the Saren analogy, then one could argue that he was correct about joining organics and synthetics was he not? 

Modifié par iamzer0xx, 29 juin 2012 - 09:03 .

[Asepsis]

As a soldier in the ME universe, without my knowledge of what the Bioware writers were intending...

HELLACIOUS NO.

I'd just think I was getting indoctrinated or something.

[Welsh Inferno]

iamzer0xx wrote...

My problem with the Destroy ending is that, inherently it doesn't really solve anything, at least the threat of organic extinction. On top of that, I couldn't bring myself to commit mass extinction of the Geth and kill off EDI. If you want to talk about force, I believe forcing extinction is worse. 

the benefits of Synthesis are vastly superior for me. Preservation of the countless civilizations before, no one single civilization is forced to extinction. And the life elevated to harmonic unity.I imagine the benefits of such circumstances would greatly exceed everyones expectations.

No I agree with you on both. No one seems to realise that long term consequence of destroy, but I kinda like the idea that organics are given the chance to overcome such, albeit being incredibly risky. Synth is my fave but I like Destroy also.

[Malditor]

Yes, as I'm the type of person to go for compromise primarily this is the best compromise I saw. After watching the Control ending I was torn which was better for me though.

[Welsh Inferno]

Spartas Husky wrote...

Synthesis... did it work for saren. Your friends were willing to pay their lives for the cause. Are you sure as many would have come if you had asked them... hey how about we befriend the reapers?... How many would have told you your indoctrinated?

Control and Destory are the true endings. Control you control only reapers, in destroy you destroy only reapers. Nobody else is hurt, happy ending for greedy power grabbing people, and for paragons.

You believe in synthesis.... u didn't pay attention to any of the game at all. Plus you believe in eugenics which is just disgusting.

Buddy, it didn't work for Saren because the Reapers were lying(and he was being hunted by the PROTAGONIST in a VIDEO GAME, would you expect him to win...?). They would have harvested us all had he succeeded and then swiftly discarded Saren into a heap of rubbish.

And the bolded part shows how little you understand Synthesis. Go think about it some more.

Modifié par Welsh Inferno, 29 juin 2012 - 09:10 .

[iamzer0xx]

Malditor wrote...

Yes, as I'm the type of person to go for compromise primarily this is the best compromise I saw. After watching the Control ending I was torn which was better for me though.

Te control ending had me a bit nervous. Essnetially, its like having all your eggs in one basket. Too much power given to a single being. For me, its too risky. What if a few thouands years down the road Shepard decides that the cycle needs to continue again? 

[iamzer0xx]

Welsh Inferno wrote...

Spartas Husky wrote...

Synthesis... did it work for saren. Your friends were willing to pay their lives for the cause. Are you sure as many would have come if you had asked them... hey how about we befriend the reapers?... How many would have told you your indoctrinated?

Control and Destory are the true endings. Control you control only reapers, in destroy you destroy only reapers. Nobody else is hurt, happy ending for greedy power grabbing people, and for paragons.

You believe in synthesis.... u didn't pay attention to any of the game at all. Plus you believe in eugenics which is just disgusting.

Buddy, it didn't work for Saren because the Reapers were lying. They would have harvested us all had he succeeded and then swiftly discarded Saren into a heap of rubbish.

And the bolded part shows how little you understand Synthesis. Go think about it some more.

I didn't even respond to what he said. Comparing eugenics, ridiculous.. lol.

[TreguardD]

No. Momento Mori. I know that I am mortal.