406 réponses à ce sujet

[flanny]

for me the thought of losing my individuality is to much, so no

[Alex_Dur4and]

NO! Just no!

[Zardoc]

No.

[Merwanor]

LiarasShield wrote...

Jamie watch the anime trigun their is alot of silyl stuff in it but vash believes in peace and that all life is sacred like you do I think you may enjoy it

Exactly, life is precious. And Trigun is an awesome anime.

For instance the argument that because of the Reapers crimes, they must die. Why?, what does that give us, a sense of vengence, justice? In synthesis, they share the knowledge of countless races that came before us, think how much worth that has. But no you have to satisfy your need for vengance. That is hate, and we all know what that leads to.... The dark side!!! mu ha ha ha

[LiarasShield]

Heres another anime example


What alot of us may fear the most did I do enough was everything invain did i live my life all wrong till this point

Modifié par LiarasShield, 29 juin 2012 - 04:59 .

[HellbirdIV]

If I knew Shepard had other options I'd tell her to pick Destroy since I'm apparently a soldier, ergo I would want the threat terminated forever.

If I was, say, a politician, I might ask her to pick Control, even though I know asking someone to kill themselves for the greater good is VERY heartless, I'd hope it would work out for the best. (Also if I were a geth, because I'd prefer not to blow up unless it's absolutely necessary).

If Synthesis was the ONLY way to stop the Reapers, I guess I'd give Shepard permission to do it, because I want to NOT DIE. I would still probably be really upset about it though.

Modifié par HellbirdIV, 29 juin 2012 - 05:01 .

[AnImpossibleGirl]

No way. That would need to be prevented at all costs.

The ramifications are too dire. What if they manage to do away with mortality? You just cured the genophage, get ready to inflict it again on a galactic scale that can target every single species on every single planet.

You think Earth is overpopulated now? Synthesis could end the natural cycle of life and death. What about religion, where would that go? There sure as s*** isn't a God if Synthesis just happened because "his" creation was just defiled.

Not that I am religious or even believe in God, but it is a HUGE part of who we are as sentient beings. Synthesis is disgusting.

Modifié par Poshible, 29 juin 2012 - 05:02 .

[Mezantine]

Jamie9 wrote...

Mezantine wrote...

Then reevaluate your preconception of synthesis because that is your future. You can try to reinterpret 'pinnacale of evolution' as not meaning pinnacle of evolution, but that just seems misguided. You have forced all species both biological and synthetic to follow one evolutionary path for eternity. Sure Liara is crying tears for you now but she has the ability to exist for eternity and share consciousness with all beings. She is going to forget not only you but herself as well in time. All good things must come to an end, all synthesis offers is an eternity of emotional and biological stagnation.

I don't believe that. Like I said, there is no pinnacle of evolution. In fact, synthesis likely allows organics to self-alter their own code (or DNA). This means that evolution is still ongoing, albeit "self-evolution".

Legion remains his own person yet is able to link up to the Consensus. Why will everyone become the same person over time?

What happened to Legion is not the same thing. Not by a mile. Legion simply had his code changed with reaper code. It was not a complete overall of his identity as a Geth. EDI states in the synthesis ending that the line between synthetic and organics will be blured. Like i keep saying your damning all life to the same existance. We have no control over this process, we will never evolve beyond what synthesis forces us to be. And once the line between synthetic and organics becomes fully blured we will forget who we were and simply become something different but not unique. 

And are you actually saying that even though the star kid told you this action would bring you to a pinnacle of evolution, you're simply not going to believe him and assume he is wrong? so you're really just going to gamble the future of all synthetic and organic life based solely on your assumption that the star kid is probably wrong?

Modifié par Mezantine, 29 juin 2012 - 05:04 .

[Bomma72]

Jamie9 wrote...

Bomma72 wrote...

Peace and forgiveness are not real at the cost of self determination.  There is much Peace in slavery.

Yet slavery is wrong. In synthesis, I do not believe people are enslaved. The Reapers are in Control, however.

I totally see synthisis as slavery see my sig.  This is how I see the voice over.  Plus the fact that you change everyone without there permission means you made them slave to your will, so they are slaves.  

[Jamie9]

Mezantine wrote...

What happened to Legion is not the same thing. Not by a mile. Legion simply had his code changed with reaper code. It was not a complete overall of his identity as a Geth. EDI states in the synthesis ending that the line between synthetic and organics will be blured. Like i keep saying your damning all life to the same existance. We have no control over this process, we will never evolve beyond what synthesis forces us to be. And once the line between synthetic and organics becomes fully blured we will forget who we were and simply become something different but not unique. 

And are you actually saying that even though the star kid told you this action would bring you to a pinnacle of evolution, you're simply not going to believe him and assume he is wrong? so you're really just going to gamble the future of all synthetic and organic life based solely on your assumption that the star kid is probably wrong?

I was under the impression that the Geth could literally alter their entire code. Just any time they wanted. Taking that into account, a pinnacle of evolution post-synthesis cannot exist. It can't.

I don't believe the Catalyst is wrong. I know he is wrong. When he refers to "pinnacle of evolution", I assume he means possessing both organic and synthetic traits.

I believe everyone remains unique. They can alter their code at will, therefore society will never stagnate.

[Jamie9]

Bomma72 wrote...

Jamie9 wrote...

Bomma72 wrote...

Peace and forgiveness are not real at the cost of self determination.  There is much Peace in slavery.

Yet slavery is wrong. In synthesis, I do not believe people are enslaved. The Reapers are in Control, however.

I totally see synthisis as slavery see my sig.  This is how I see the voice over.  Plus the fact that you change everyone without there permission means you made them slave to your will, so they are slaves.  

Well, technically none of the options are done by vote. So everyone is "bowing down to your will".

All I can do is make the choice that provides the most good for the most people. That is almost always the best choice. All the other 3 choices screw a group over, so I choose synthesis.

[Pottumuusi]

Nope, since I have no idea what the flipping hell it would actually do to me.

I saw a cancer cure analogy earlier in this thread. That doesn't really work. With a cure we came up with we would know exactly what it would do.

I have a better analogy for synthesis:

Imagine that Ayman al-Zawahiri came to you with a cure for cancer and asked you to distribute it globally.
And you have to do it right the **** now, you can't have it examined by anyone.
So, would you do it?

[SetecAstronomy]

The Galactic Community collectively gave Shepard the authority to activate the Crucible that they all helped to build. The Galactic Community is partly responsible for the Synthesis, which was a function of the Crucible. As far as the Galactic Community knows, Synthesis was its sole function.

The Galaxy will continue on, not thinking "Shepard turned us green!" They will continue on, thinking "We did this to ourselves when we turned the thing on." And they would not be wrong for thinking this.

At least that's how I play it. Couldn't say how others play their game.

[Merwanor]

If someone in the world made a choice that granted everyone in the world the ability to fly like Superman for instance. Would you be pissed of at that person? And you would also gain the side effect of blue finger nails...

[Sisterofshane]

Jamie9 wrote...

Mezantine wrote...
*snip*

I don't believe that. Like I said, there is no pinnacle of evolution. In fact, synthesis likely allows organics to self-alter their own code (or DNA). This means that evolution is still ongoing, albeit "self-evolution".

Legion remains his own person yet is able to link up to the Consensus. Why will everyone become the same person over time?

Legion is different though, because presumably the geth are already USED to seeing themselves as a singular entity.  Even when you talk to him before he joins with the Normandy, he makes no distinction between the indivual geth programs within his platform, and is confused when you ask him to.

It's easy to assume when you jump into the beam how you envision Synthesis - there's not much of a description prior to it.  I like to base my assumptions on what is shown to me after I make the decision. (Yes, I know METAGAMING but it's the only thing I can go off of from what I have seen.)

EDI says a few telling things in the epilogue sequence.  She says "as the lines blur" between synthetic and organic...To me, I assume this means that you have made everyone similar enough that their pre-synthesis origins no longer matter.  Eventually you will get to a point where this also includes species-lines as well.  So a large part of what defined most individuals now no longer matters.

She also says that it may be possible to transcend "mortality itself".  So, like you said, there will be "self" modification, but there will no longer be Evolution.  Evolution is made possible by allowing specific traits to survive, and be passed down to our offspring, which gives THEM a greater chance at survival.  To me, THIS is what has created diversity.  Different traits become prevelant in different environments - a few examples being the metallic body plates of Turians and the Hanar's ability to communicate through bioluminescence.  These traits were developed specific to their homeworlds.

So I believe while we are shown that everyone retains a large portion of their "individuality" in the immediate future, EVENTUALLY you will see both aspects of it decline, as it is no longer necessary to maintain such things.

[Kia Purity]

I'm not very comfortable with synthesis ending so I say no.

And keep in mind, if I was Shepard and pretty much made /everyone/ deaf via synthesis, I'm pretty sure everyone would have a damn problem with that. (Bad example, but closest I can think of.)

[Hackulator]

Ok so, it seems so far people are voting no, because they feel that Synthesis changes them intrinsically in some way, which it does. However, while making you more intelligent and more competent might change you, its true, why is that a bad thing.

Or, to put it in way that makes you take another look at things, would it be morally wrong to find a treatment or cure for a person who was mentally handicapped? Doing so would inherently change who they are, wouldn't it?

[Hackulator]

Kia Purity wrote...

I'm not very comfortable with synthesis ending so I say no.

And keep in mind, if I was Shepard and pretty much made /everyone/ deaf via synthesis, I'm pretty sure everyone would have a damn problem with that. (Bad example, but closest I can think of.)

So I have to ask, are you one of the people among the deaf community who are against things like cochlear implants?

[Mezantine]

Jamie9 wrote...

I was under the impression that the Geth could literally alter their entire code. Just any time they wanted. Taking that into account, a pinnacle of evolution post-synthesis cannot exist. It can't.

I don't believe the Catalyst is wrong. I know he is wrong. When he refers to "pinnacle of evolution", I assume he means possessing both organic and synthetic traits.

I believe everyone remains unique. They can alter their code at will, therefore society will never stagnate.

pinnacle definition - the highest or culminating point, as of success, power, fame, etc.: the pinnacle of one's career.

You do not go beyond your pinnacle. I honestly don't understand why you won't accept what the star kid told you at face value, nor accept the reality of EDI's statement that 'the lines between synthetics and organics will be blurred'. Once you accept synthesis you will reach a pinnacle of evolotion. Unless you are planning on devolving then there is nowhere else for you to go. You will simply stagnate and remain the same for eternity. Remember that EDI states in the ending that immortality will be achieved, you're going to live forever never changing in a never changing universe. 

All the evidence provided by the star kid and EDI points towards you  reaching a stagnate pinnacle of evolution. You can try and convince yourself that what they are saying is wrong but what evidence are you providing for such an argument other than your assumptions?

[sAxMoNkI]

If I was asked first and the change would only affect me specifically...then yeah I think I would do it tbh. Obviously I'd ask for a few details of what it would entail but I have no problems with synthesis *on an individual basis* the problems with it for me come from it being forced one EVERYTHING without their consent.

[KingZayd]

No. Shepard needs to destroy the Reapers. Also, no way am I willing to undergo a synthesis operation until I know EXACTLY what it entails, and know that this experimental procedure: works, is safe and has no negative side effects.

[Bomma72]

Merwanor wrote...

LiarasShield wrote...

Jamie watch the anime trigun their is alot of silyl stuff in it but vash believes in peace and that all life is sacred like you do I think you may enjoy it

Exactly, life is precious. And Trigun is an awesome anime.

For instance the argument that because of the Reapers crimes, they must die. Why?, what does that give us, a sense of vengence, justice? In synthesis, they share the knowledge of countless races that came before us, think how much worth that has. But no you have to satisfy your need for vengance. That is hate, and we all know what that leads to.... The dark side!!! mu ha ha ha

I believe in right and wrong, I believe in consequences. 
Life without them will inherently lead to chaos, it has nothing to do with hate
and vengence.


"Justice is the first virtue of social institutions, as truth is of systems of thought." 
Rawls

"Law and order exist for the purpose of establishing
justice and when they fail in this purpose they become the dangerously
structured dams that block the flow of social progress."
 Martin Luthor King

"Knowledge without justice ought to be called cunning rather than wisdom."
Plato

"At his best, man is the noblest of all animals; separated from law and justice he is the worst."
Aristotle

Modifié par Bomma72, 29 juin 2012 - 05:19 .

[poptdp]

shepard would have to have a pretty high charm score to convince me to allow green markings all over me and everyone else's bodies

[Shadowvalker]

Synthesis is an invention not evolution so NO thank you.

[MegaSovereign]

Only if he takes me to dinner first.