406 réponses à ce sujet

[Sisterofshane]

Hackulator wrote...


All Democracy in the end works this way. Because of the opinions of others there are thousands of laws you must follow, ways you must live your life. You will be forced to do many things in this life, would it be so bad if one of the things you were forced to do was to be better? People on this board talk about Eugenics without understanding what the problem with it is. The problem is NOT the desire to improve humanity. The problem is using methodology that degrades and leaves behind most of humanity so that some elite group can advance. Synthesis does not have this problem.

I said nothing of Eugenics, although I can see where this is devolving.

Democracy (and every government, for that matter) is only possible because I , as the indivdual, have given up a certain amount of my personal rights to an entity that can THEN protect the rest of the rights I keep.  Example, I give up my right to kill people, so that other people do not have the right to kill me.  The government has no right, however, to force me to do anything to my person/my beliefs against my will, unless I allow them to.

I practiced the right very recently.  When I was pregnant with my Daughter, I was pushed very heavily to get vaccinated for H1N1, mostly for the fact that a lot of pregnant women were dying from it.  I chose not to get the vaccine for a multitude of reasons.  You can do the same for every vaccine that they offer, because it is YOUR body and you maintain Sovereignty. I will never give up my right to decide what I do to my own body to some politician who thinks they know better about myself than I do.  SOCIAL CONTRACT THEORY FOR THE WIN!

And I agree that the concept of Eugenics is often mistaken for the people in the past who have tried to forcibly apply it with racist intentions.  I would argue however, that the problem comes from the ATTEMPT TO FORCE IT, and not necessarily from the intention of the person(s) applying it, and Synthesis does indeed have this problem.

[Erixxxx]

No, I would not. While it may be beautiful and all, it's a choice with unimaginable consequences. No one person should have to choose the fate of all.

[Mezantine]

Jamie9 wrote...

Mezantine wrote...

Of course i can't understand a life that transcends mortatlity because the entire cultural / societal. and bilogical makeup of my society is one based around the reality of death and survival. Once the threat of death is removed from our species our cultural identity will be removed with it. Will people still have the desire to create monumental works of art, songs or books to record events they believe are important for everyone to know if people can live forever? Why would people even bother noting the significance of something like a sunrise if they know they will witness them for eternity, and everyone else will? What will become remarkable to a people who can't die and will always experience such things, without the threat of ever missing out on them? Once you reach immortalilty you will stagnate.

If I was immortal, I'd certainly want periods of "hibernation". A chance to rest. Come back with my passions and goals rejuvinated.

I don't think becoming immortal would result in you going, "Well, what's the point?".

I generally enjoy things because I enjoy them, not because I fear my coming death.

What is the point. How long can you enjoy doing something if there is literaly no end to doing it? how long can things remain remarkable to you if you always witness them over and over again. What do you actually think you could enjoy doing for eternity? Honestly the only thing i could imagine people doing would be to create life and watch it grow, but after a few trilion years of doing that i'm sure it'd be pretty dull as well. 

[chriseggroll]

Hackulator wrote...

Ok so, it seems so far people are voting no, because they feel that Synthesis changes them intrinsically in some way, which it does. However, while making you more intelligent and more competent might change you, its true, why is that a bad thing.

Or, to put it in way that makes you take another look at things, would it be morally wrong to find a treatment or cure for a person who was mentally handicapped? Doing so would inherently change who they are, wouldn't it?

He doesn't know what it will do, but supposedly being fused with synthetic life in some way.  What makes you you, and how this would affect your personality etc are I think very good reasons for not wanting to go through with this.  At the very least, every person should be able to make that choice, and making that choice for every living thing in the entire galaxy I think, is evil.  As to your situation with the handicapped person, well that would be their parent/guardian's decision and would only affect them, not really similar to the scale of this decision.

[Humanoid_Typhoon]

theSatirist wrote...

only if it comes with usb 3.0 ports.

I chuckled, good work.

[Hackulator]

Rubios wrote...

But of course this is my personal opinion, Shepard being entitled to decide for the whole galaxy is a completely different debate and it is NOT the point of this thread acording to the op.

Well, actually, there were afew real points to this thread. One was to use a new methodology to open up conversation about Synthesis, which I consider the best ending but many (most?) people really hate.

The others were to see whether if Shepard chose Synthesis, he'd really be doing something most people didn't want, and to see if those people that didn't want Synthesis also placed that feeling above the lives of the entire Geth species.

[DungeonHoek]

Hackulator wrote...

Kia Purity wrote...

Hackulator wrote...

Ok, the following questions are going to be somewhat personal, and if you don't want to even read them i will totally understand, but I am interested im your opinion on these issues for which you obviously have a valuable viewpoint.

Setting aside the specifics of a cochlear implant and the drawbacks one might have, would you accept a "cure" for you deafness? Are you a candidate for an implant who has chosen not to get one, or are you not a candidate? I ask you these things both because I find them interesting as real world ideas AND because I feel that they are very related to the Synthesis question. Many (probably most) people would consider something that gave you the ability to hear to be an improvement, but it would unquestionable change the way you sensed the world around you and therefore would have some major effect ont he person that you are. I see Synthesis in the same way, and I see those who would deny Synthesis as similar to deaf people who are against cochlear implants.

I apologize again if anything I said offended you, it was not my intention, however I understnad that such frank discusssions of certain topics can be hirtful.

Eh, no biggie. I don't mind answering the questions.

1) I couldn't really accept the cure because it's not a true cure. My brain still can't translate sounds into language due to my hearing loss at 9 months old (before language was established) -- all it would really do for me is constantly amplify the sounds around me all the time and it would drive me crazy.

**My hearing loss has to do with the fact that I have defective cochelar hair **

2) Technically I could be a candiate ... but the problem is that I never bothered wearing my hearing aids all that often like my best friend did before she got her implant (she could only afford one, they are hella expensive with health insurance! )

3) I am actually terrified of the surgery. I just don't like the idea of someone cutting my skin loose from my skull and ... sawing into it.

Personally, I feel that I'm able to do alright without implants and hearing aids, but I wouldn't begrude those who really wants them. I'm all about "Choose what YOU want, not what PEOPLE want for you."

As to the first question, I meant what if there was a hypothetical true "cure"? Not a cochlear implant, but some new technique (SPACE MAGIC!) that could truly give you your hearing and the ability to use it. Would you want it?

I appreaciate your openness on the subject.

Y'know, I can see where you are TRYING to come from. But you can't compare the fictional Synthesis ending to real life medicine.

I'm diabetic, type 2. On insulin and have been 5 and a half years. Nearly died from it at the peak of my health. There's been promise's of cures forever now. And would I take a cure if it came along and was proven to be true and not some stupid bait and hook farce?, you bet. It's miserable being diabetic.

But that's a choice I can make, it's my freedom to take, or refuse. Be it for my own benefit or death. It's up to me. No one can force it on me, and if they try, I will beat them bloody for it.

But medicine has an actual purpose, it's there to aid people. To keep us alive and kicking, and better our lives. It's not some messed up space magic that turns us into something we're not.

And medical procedures that would fundamentally alter people, like those with Down Syndrome, those procedures that are viable are mostly adapted for implementation while the fetus is still in the womb. And children don't develop their personalities for quite some time. That's makes that quite a grey area. A very tough question. Really best left up to the parents involved.

[Jamie9]

Mezantine wrote...

What is the point. How long can you enjoy doing something if there is literaly no end to doing it? how long can things remain remarkable to you if you always witness them over and over again. What do you actually think you could enjoy doing for eternity? Honestly the only thing i could imagine people doing would be to create life and watch it grow, but after a few trilion years of doing that i'm sure it'd be pretty dull as well. 

Immortality doesn't mean you can't die. If you wanted to rest for eternity, I'm sure you could. That's free will.

[mcz2345]

To all those who said no: We won¨t miss you

[2papercuts]

Prepare for unforeseen consequences

[Sisterofshane]

mcz2345 wrote...

To all those who said no: We won¨t miss you

We won't miss you either!

[TheMiffins]

If my decision actually had weight, no. I would tell him that sacrificing our humanity for the sake of peace is not an option, and that our diversity and our nature to fight is what makes us different from the Reapers and is our strength against them.

[Hackulator]

2papercuts wrote...

Prepare for unforeseen consequences

Pretty sure thats life, regardless of anything else.

[McD1330]

chriseggroll wrote...

Hackulator wrote...

Ok so, it seems so far people are voting no, because they feel that Synthesis changes them intrinsically in some way, which it does. However, while making you more intelligent and more competent might change you, its true, why is that a bad thing.

Or, to put it in way that makes you take another look at things, would it be morally wrong to find a treatment or cure for a person who was mentally handicapped? Doing so would inherently change who they are, wouldn't it?

He doesn't know what it will do, but supposedly being fused with synthetic life in some way.  What makes you you, and how this would affect your personality etc are I think very good reasons for not wanting to go through with this.  At the very least, every person should be able to make that choice, and making that choice for every living thing in the entire galaxy I think, is evil.  As to your situation with the handicapped person, well that would be their parent/guardian's decision and would only affect them, not really similar to the scale of this decision.

So what did you choose instead?

[CroGamer002]

Ender99 wrote...

DinoSteve wrote...

I'd rather he shot me

This.

No.....just...no. I'd rather take a bullet to the brain.

[Sisterofshane]

Hackulator wrote...

2papercuts wrote...

Prepare for unforeseen consequences

Pretty sure thats life, regardless of anything else.

LOL, something that everyone who plays Mass Effect can agree upon!

[DRTJR]

NO! not just that but F*** NO!

[KotorEffect3]

I"d want him to do whatever it takes to end the war and stop the reapers. If it meant that me and everybody would end up having parts of our bodies be green and glowey than I will deal with it, at least the war is over

[AxStapleton]

Sisterofshane wrote...

mcz2345 wrote...

To all those who said no: We won¨t miss you

We won't miss you either!

+1

[Mezantine]

Jamie9 wrote...

Mezantine wrote...

What is the point. How long can you enjoy doing something if there is literaly no end to doing it? how long can things remain remarkable to you if you always witness them over and over again. What do you actually think you could enjoy doing for eternity? Honestly the only thing i could imagine people doing would be to create life and watch it grow, but after a few trilion years of doing that i'm sure it'd be pretty dull as well. 

Immortality doesn't mean you can't die. If you wanted to rest for eternity, I'm sure you could. That's free will.

So immortatliy is all right because i could rest forever? As enticing as that sounds i'd rather my fleeting existence as it is right now. I'd rather marvel at the beauty of the sunnset because i will only see so many, i'd rather be amazed by different cultures and societies because i will only witness so few. I will always prefer a existence that demands i make the most of it, rather than one where purpose and wonderment become clouded out by the endlessness that is eternity.

[Hackulator]

DungeonHoek wrote...

Y'know, I can see where you are TRYING to come from. But you can't compare the fictional Synthesis ending to real life medicine.

I'm diabetic, type 2. On insulin and have been 5 and a half years. Nearly died from it at the peak of my health. There's been promise's of cures forever now. And would I take a cure if it came along and was proven to be true and not some stupid bait and hook farce?, you bet. It's miserable being diabetic.

But that's a choice I can make, it's my freedom to take, or refuse. Be it for my own benefit or death. It's up to me. No one can force it on me, and if they try, I will beat them bloody for it.

But medicine has an actual purpose, it's there to aid people. To keep us alive and kicking, and better our lives. It's not some messed up space magic that turns us into something we're not.

And medical procedures that would fundamentally alter people, like those with Down Syndrome, those procedures that are viable are mostly adapted for implementation while the fetus is still in the womb. And children don't develop their personalities for quite some time. That's makes that quite a grey area. A very tough question. Really best left up to the parents involved.

Yes but the young lady's (I think?) situation is a much more accurate metaphor than yours. Diabetes in unquestionably a DISEASE, a negative thing that ANYONE would choose to be cured from. Being deaf is somewhat different, it is an entire different experience of life, and there are deaf people who choose against treatment for their conditions for them and, more importantly, their children, because they believe such treeatments would fundamentally change their way of life. This is why deafness is an apt metaphor in thsi situation, while diabetes is not.

[Hackulator]

Mezantine wrote...

Jamie9 wrote...

Mezantine wrote...

What is the point. How long can you enjoy doing something if there is literaly no end to doing it? how long can things remain remarkable to you if you always witness them over and over again. What do you actually think you could enjoy doing for eternity? Honestly the only thing i could imagine people doing would be to create life and watch it grow, but after a few trilion years of doing that i'm sure it'd be pretty dull as well. 

Immortality doesn't mean you can't die. If you wanted to rest for eternity, I'm sure you could. That's free will.

So immortatliy is all right because i could rest forever? As enticing as that sounds i'd rather my fleeting existence as it is right now. I'd rather marvel at the beauty of the sunnset because i will only see so many, i'd rather be amazed by different cultures and societies because i will only witness so few. I will always prefer a existence that demands i make the most of it, rather than one where purpose and wonderment become clouded out by the endlessness that is eternity.

You continued insistance that additional experiences somehow lessen the value of previous experiences is mind boggling to me.

[Sisterofshane]

KotorEffect3 wrote...

I"d want him to do whatever it takes to end the war and stop the reapers. If it meant that me and everybody would end up having parts of our bodies be green and glowey than I will deal with it, at least the war is over

That's why I hope Shepard would be smart enough that, when seeking some sort of permission, would let us know that there are other ways to stop the Reapers.

If it was the only way, and we knew it, I'm sure a lot of us would rethink telling him "no".

[Jamie9]

Mezantine wrote...

Jamie9 wrote...

Mezantine wrote...

What is the point. How long can you enjoy doing something if there is literaly no end to doing it? how long can things remain remarkable to you if you always witness them over and over again. What do you actually think you could enjoy doing for eternity? Honestly the only thing i could imagine people doing would be to create life and watch it grow, but after a few trilion years of doing that i'm sure it'd be pretty dull as well. 

Immortality doesn't mean you can't die. If you wanted to rest for eternity, I'm sure you could. That's free will.

So immortatliy is all right because i could rest forever? As enticing as that sounds i'd rather my fleeting existence as it is right now. I'd rather marvel at the beauty of the sunnset because i will only see so many, i'd rather be amazed by different cultures and societies because i will only witness so few. I will always prefer a existence that demands i make the most of it, rather than one where purpose and wonderment become clouded out by the endlessness that is eternity.

Sorry. "Rest forever" was my subtle way of saying dead.

Like I said before, I enjoy companionship because I enjoy companionship, not because I'm worried about when it'll be gone. In fact, I don't really think about that at all. Live in the present, and all that.

So I meant, you could live as long as you wanted, or just a little bit less, and then die. But instead of being forced to die within 80 years (now), 120 years (Mass Effect), you can decide when you depart life.