406 réponses à ce sujet

[Wydi]

Joe Del Toro wrote...


Shepard: Joe.
Joe: Shepard.
Shepard: So ah...Catalyst just dropped kind of a bombshell.
Joe: What is it, big guy.
Shepard: Well he says that...in order to bring peace, I have to do something called Synthesis.
Joe: What's that, like, a yoga thing?
Shepard: Nah, nah. It's like, we have to merge with synthetics-
Joe: Gonna stop you right there.
Shepard: No listen. We become one with synthetics, which turns us green, and then the Reapers will be our friends.
Joe: Why green
Shepard: I don't know.
Joe: Why would we want to be friends with Reapers? They're pricks. Not to mention you're..kinda going against everyone's basic rights there man.
Shepard: Well you know, we fight or-
Joe: -we die, yes.
Shepard: So, should I go for it?
Joe: What the-no. No. Of course not.
Shepard: Aight. 
 

Pretty much this.

[Hicks233]

No.

[Sousabird]

I'd tell him to blow the reapers the f**k up

[Mezantine]

Hackulator wrote...

You continued insistance that additional experiences somehow lessen the value of previous experiences is mind boggling to me.

Your inability to understand how our species is defined by the limitations of mortality is mind boggling to me. What is even more mind boggling is that you still think we will remain human without such a limitation. When time is eternal then nothing can seem signifcant.

[DungeonHoek]

Hackulator wrote...

DungeonHoek wrote...

Y'know, I can see where you are TRYING to come from. But you can't compare the fictional Synthesis ending to real life medicine.

I'm diabetic, type 2. On insulin and have been 5 and a half years. Nearly died from it at the peak of my health. There's been promise's of cures forever now. And would I take a cure if it came along and was proven to be true and not some stupid bait and hook farce?, you bet. It's miserable being diabetic.

But that's a choice I can make, it's my freedom to take, or refuse. Be it for my own benefit or death. It's up to me. No one can force it on me, and if they try, I will beat them bloody for it.

But medicine has an actual purpose, it's there to aid people. To keep us alive and kicking, and better our lives. It's not some messed up space magic that turns us into something we're not.

And medical procedures that would fundamentally alter people, like those with Down Syndrome, those procedures that are viable are mostly adapted for implementation while the fetus is still in the womb. And children don't develop their personalities for quite some time. That's makes that quite a grey area. A very tough question. Really best left up to the parents involved.

Yes but the young lady's (I think?) situation is a much more accurate metaphor than yours. Diabetes in unquestionably a DISEASE, a negative thing that ANYONE would choose to be cured from. Being deaf is somewhat different, it is an entire different experience of life, and there are deaf people who choose against treatment for their conditions for them and, more importantly, their children, because they believe such treeatments would fundamentally change their way of life. This is why deafness is an apt metaphor in thsi situation, while diabetes is not.

Well, yes, I have to agree on that. I don't know a single person who wouldn't jump at the chance to be rid of diabetes. And that yes, perhaps my metaphor in this situation is not the best suited. I never said I was infallable.

However I do stand by what I said.

[Humanoid_Typhoon]

I have a strong opposition to the forces of space magic.

[Hackulator]

Mezantine wrote...

Hackulator wrote...

You continued insistance that additional experiences somehow lessen the value of previous experiences is mind boggling to me.

Your inability to understand how our species is defined by the limitations of mortality is mind boggling to me. What is even more mind boggling is that you still think we will remain human without such a limitation. When time is eternal then nothing can seem signifcant.

Why are you so excited about remaining human? Regardless of how we evolve, eventually we will evolve into something that is beyong human. Defining yourself by your limitations is a terrible way to go through life.

[chriseggroll]

McD1330 wrote...

chriseggroll wrote...

Hackulator wrote...

Ok so, it seems so far people are voting no, because they feel that Synthesis changes them intrinsically in some way, which it does. However, while making you more intelligent and more competent might change you, its true, why is that a bad thing.

Or, to put it in way that makes you take another look at things, would it be morally wrong to find a treatment or cure for a person who was mentally handicapped? Doing so would inherently change who they are, wouldn't it?

He doesn't know what it will do, but supposedly being fused with synthetic life in some way.  What makes you you, and how this would affect your personality etc are I think very good reasons for not wanting to go through with this.  At the very least, every person should be able to make that choice, and making that choice for every living thing in the entire galaxy I think, is evil.  As to your situation with the handicapped person, well that would be their parent/guardian's decision and would only affect them, not really similar to the scale of this decision.

So what did you choose instead?

For lack of a better option, I chose destroy.  Control seems like a choice no Shepard would make to me, because we just had a long discussion with TIM about the inability to control them, how we are not ready to have that kind of control etc and we ended up killing him over it.  Would Shepard really be that much of a hypocrite?

The whole point of all 3 games really has been "stop the reapers," first it was preventing their return, and then when that wasn't possible, destroying them.  with the reapers dead, conflict with synthetics might happen again, but nothing could be as bad as the reaper invasion is/was, and with this invasion down in the history books, it seems likely all races would be working to prevent that from happening.

[Hackulator]

Just because you've been trying to do something for a long time doesn't mean that if in the moment of success you are offered an even better option you should automatically turn it down.

[Mezantine]

Hackulator wrote...

Mezantine wrote...

Hackulator wrote...

You continued insistance that additional experiences somehow lessen the value of previous experiences is mind boggling to me.

Your inability to understand how our species is defined by the limitations of mortality is mind boggling to me. What is even more mind boggling is that you still think we will remain human without such a limitation. When time is eternal then nothing can seem signifcant.

Why are you so excited about remaining human? Regardless of how we evolve, eventually we will evolve into something that is beyong human. Defining yourself by your limitations is a terrible way to go through life.

Why don't you want to be human? Seriously how has humanity slighted you so bad that you want to erase them as as a species from the universe? And yeah like all species part of who we are comes from our limitations, but what is equally important is how we respond to such limitations. We know our time will end and so people try to leave their legacy behind in art, literature etc. They know such moments in history like a political over throw will ultimatley be forgotten if not recorded. If such people could live forever what use would they have for history? why would they bother with the past when the future is endless. Why would they even be that bothered with the present when they know whatver they do will really have no signifcance when held up against the eternity of immortality. Don't fear your limitations, rather embrace what such limitations inspire people to accomplish.

[SwitchN7]

Weak minded people will always fear change and evolution.It's not meant as an insult since i was against change for my first 24 years.

Modifié par SwitchN7, 29 juin 2012 - 06:31 .

[Lisa_H]

Never, I like being human.

[mass perfection]

Remember,the people who say that they don't want Synthesis to happen to only them are the equivalent to the protesters and Purity First people from Deus Ex Human Revolution.

[Wydi]

SwitchN7 wrote...

Weak minded people will always fear change and evolution.It's not meant as an insult since i was against change for my first 24 years.

This is not against change or even against evolution.
It's all about the free will, the possibility to choose on your own. Forcing billions of people into something that they haven't chosen for themselves is no evolution. It is a forced change that no one has the right to.
I'm something like a vegan left-winged progressive-thinking guy, but never ever would I think of forcing my opinions on others. It has to happen by democratic means, and what Shepard does is highly dictatoring.

[Hackulator]

Mezantine wrote...

Why don't you want to be human? Seriously how has humanity slighted you so bad that you want to erase them as as a species from the universe? And yeah like all species part of who we are comes from our limitations, but what is equally important is how we respond to such limitations. We know our time will end and so people try to leave their legacy behind in art, literature etc. They know such moments in history like a political over throw will ultimatley be forgotten if not recorded. If such people could live forever what use would they have for history? why would they bother with the past when the future is endless. Why would they even be that bothered with the present when they know whatver they do will really have no signifcance when held up against the eternity of immortality. Don't fear your limitations, rather embrace what such limitations inspire people to accomplish.

Why does accepting the fact that humanity will eventually either evolve into something beyong humanity or die out mean that I hate humanity? People would have history for their children. People would make art because it is BEAUTIFUL. Appreciation of beauty would not disappear without a fear of death, it would simply change. 

Why are you so afraid of change?

[Wydi]

mass perfection wrote...

Remember,the people who say that they don't want Synthesis to happen to only them are the equivalent to the protesters and Purity First people from Deus Ex Human Revolution.

Have you ever watched Gattaca? There are the reasons for it. 

[Mezantine]

Hackulator wrote...

Mezantine wrote...

Why don't you want to be human? Seriously how has humanity slighted you so bad that you want to erase them as as a species from the universe? And yeah like all species part of who we are comes from our limitations, but what is equally important is how we respond to such limitations. We know our time will end and so people try to leave their legacy behind in art, literature etc. They know such moments in history like a political over throw will ultimatley be forgotten if not recorded. If such people could live forever what use would they have for history? why would they bother with the past when the future is endless. Why would they even be that bothered with the present when they know whatver they do will really have no signifcance when held up against the eternity of immortality. Don't fear your limitations, rather embrace what such limitations inspire people to accomplish.

Why does accepting the fact that humanity will eventually either evolve into something beyong humanity or die out mean that I hate humanity? People would have history for their children. People would make art because it is BEAUTIFUL. Appreciation of beauty would not disappear without a fear of death, it would simply change. 

Why are you so afraid of change?

Becuase you are not accepting that fact. You are subverting this reality by accepting synthesis. You are changing our biological future and warping it to fit something we aren't, thereby creating a future you assume we would reach, not one reached through a natural process of evolution. My stance remains the same, you have no right to dictate how we will evolve. You aren't God. If you believe in change then you will allow change to naturally progress and not subvert this reality with your idea of what utopia is, or with your assumption of who we should become. 

[Hackulator]

Wydi wrote...

mass perfection wrote...

Remember,the people who say that they don't want Synthesis to happen to only them are the equivalent to the protesters and Purity First people from Deus Ex Human Revolution.

Have you ever watched Gattaca? There are the reasons for it. 

Gattaca is a movie about the problems of having an elite few considered superior to the rest of humanity. This is not an issue with Synthesis. This common TERRIBLE comparison is why people compare Synthesis to Eugenics unfavorably, when they fail to udnerstand why Eugenics is a bad thing.

[Td1984]

Yes.

[Wydi]

Hackulator wrote...

Gattaca is a movie about the problems of having an elite few considered superior to the rest of humanity. This is not an issue with Synthesis. This common TERRIBLE comparison is why people compare Synthesis to Eugenics unfavorably, when they fail to udnerstand why Eugenics is a bad thing.

I was rather commenting on Deus Ex: HR, where this example fits perfectly.
Synthesis is another thing, I agree.

[Giga Drill BREAKER]

Wow I thought it would be close but the No's really swung it.

[Forbry]

Under certain cirumstances and if there is no better option: Yes
Out of the blue and when there are better options: No

In this case: yes.

Modifié par Forbry, 29 juin 2012 - 06:53 .

[Hackulator]

DinoSteve wrote...

Wow I thought it would be close but the No's really swung it.

Its been holding steady at around 25% 75%, I am hoping to get a bunch more votes this evening and see how that goes.

[chriseggroll]

Hackulator wrote...

Just because you've been trying to do something for a long time doesn't mean that if in the moment of success you are offered an even better option you should automatically turn it down.

Losing your humanity doesn't sound like a better option to me, especially when you're essentially becoming what you've hated.

Modifié par chriseggroll, 29 juin 2012 - 06:56 .