162 réponses à ce sujet

[PinkysPain]

Micah3sixty wrote...

What else can you expect? The full fleets of the Galaxy were being decimated in the full frontal assault on Earth that wasn't even comprised of all reapers as they were still dispersed on Thessia, Paladin, Tuchunka and elsewhere.

ME3 starts off with a McGuffin and ends with a Diablos ex Machina ... what exactly would be wrong with an asspull good ending in a game filled to the brim with asspulls already?

It could go something like this ... why is the starbrat granting you so much power? Does he have some ulterior motive? (would make more sense than the story we have now.) He actually needs Shepard to end the war quickly, because a team of researchers on the citadel is getting close to his AI core which would allow them a measure of control over the reapers (lets say turn off their mass effect shielding). Blocks in his AI programming prevent him from activating any of the colour coded choices himself, but a free willed organic can perform the task ... so he gets Shepard (because he is a vindictive little git) and tries to trick him in ending the game on his terms.

Modifié par PinkysPain, 29 juin 2012 - 04:49 .

[Carlthestrange]

It was content not even promised. I see it as a plus really.

[Allen Spellwaver]

Why people hate it?It is an absolutely logial ending and I like it.

[Dyranos]

ISAWRIT wrote...

Well, in all fairness, it's been said by Hackett at the end of the game that you don't have enough firepower to take down the Reapers without the Crucible. So if you refuse to use it, it makes sense that everyone dies. The consequence for shooting the Catalyst is actually pretty cute... and logical. If someone shot me after I gave them options for a solution, I'd be pretty pissed and storm away with a "SO BE IT!" too.

Heres what I dont get, your with the controller of the reapers, the real bad guy here who controlls these genocidal constructs that harvest civilisations and have the blood of trillions on their hands, but the only way for things to be ok is for you to say "Sure I shall do what you tell me too"

The star child should never have been in the game, this god figure introduced in the last 10 minutes is the killer of the franchise

[Clayless]

PinkysPain wrote...

Micah3sixty wrote...

What else can you expect? The full fleets of the Galaxy were being decimated in the full frontal assault on Earth that wasn't even comprised of all reapers as they were still dispersed on Thessia, Paladin, Tuchunka and elsewhere.

ME3 starts off with a McGuffin and ends with a Diablos ex Machina ... what exactly would be wrong with an asspull good ending in a game filled to the brim with asspulls already?

Technically the Catalyst isn't a Deus Ex Machina as you spend the entire game looking for it, and in the end it doesn't actually solve any problems or do anything but relay information.

[Dyranos]

Allen Spellwaver wrote...

Why people hate it?It is an absolutely logial ending and I like it.

Id love you to explain to me how anything that occurs within the last 10 minutes of the game is logical to the plot or the mass effect universe in general

[Carlthestrange]

The only real issue I have with the Reject ending is this.

"My solution won't work anymore."

"SO BE IT! The cycle continues."

...Hang on, you said your solution won't work anymore. So you decide to... carry on anyway? You just contradicted your own logic.

But bah, that statement kinda makes you wonder if it is all a trap after all.

[Dyranos]

Our_Last_Scene wrote...

PinkysPain wrote...

Micah3sixty wrote...

What else can you expect? The full fleets of the Galaxy were being decimated in the full frontal assault on Earth that wasn't even comprised of all reapers as they were still dispersed on Thessia, Paladin, Tuchunka and elsewhere.

ME3 starts off with a McGuffin and ends with a Diablos ex Machina ... what exactly would be wrong with an asspull good ending in a game filled to the brim with asspulls already?

Technically the Catalyst isn't a Deus Ex Machina as you spend the entire game looking for it, and in the end it doesn't actually solve any problems or do anything but relay information.

Of course its a deus ex machina, the catalyst is the God child that controls the reapers and is a character who we are introduced to in the last 10 minutes of the game, and then tells that we only have three options for peace

[Super-Model]

Certainly not, would they want to go ahead and send out an FU to the fans and in doing so alienate them and lose potential future business? I don't think so

[Baronesa]

SO BE IT!

Reject is a nice option, but it is pointless if the next cycle use the crucible (as Gamle said on twitter)

However, in game information points at a different outcome, since Liara says on the recorded message that the Crucible did not work... there is no reason for next cycle to even build it!

Modifié par Baronesa, 29 juin 2012 - 04:46 .

[Dyranos]

Super-Model wrote...

Certainly not, would they want to go ahead and send out an FU to the fans and in doing so alienate them and lose potential future business? I don't think so

But they are clever about it, they did not do it directly but in subtext, which gives them the ability to deny it even though it is plain to see, the majority of the fans probably wont even realise it untill someone brings it up before them

[DESTRAUDO]

Bioware spends like a million dollars to adjust the endings. Is seen as giving the middle finger to fans.They just cannot win with some people.

[Clayless]

Dyranos wrote...

Of course its a deus ex machina, the catalyst is the God child that controls the reapers and is a character who we are introduced to in the last 10 minutes of the game, and then tells that we only have three options for peace

A Deus Ex Machina is something which solves a problem and appears at the last moment.

The Catalyst isn't revealed at the last moment of the game and is known about from the start of ME3, nor does it actually solve anything.

AKA not a Deus Ex Machina.

[Dyranos]

Our_Last_Scene wrote...

Dyranos wrote...

Of course its a deus ex machina, the catalyst is the God child that controls the reapers and is a character who we are introduced to in the last 10 minutes of the game, and then tells that we only have three options for peace

A Deus Ex Machina is something which solves a problem and appears at the last moment.

The Catalyst isn't revealed at the last moment of the game and is known about from the start of ME3, nor does it actually solve anything.

AKA not a Deus Ex Machina.

You dont seem to know the defenition of Deus Ex Machina

1.(in ancient Greek and Roman drama) a god introduced into a play to resolve the entanglements of the plot.2.any artificial or improbable device resolving the difficulties of a plot.

The catalyst fits into both of these caterories, there is no debate against it because it is a clear fact that the ending is a Deus Ex Machina, the character is introduced within the last 10 minutes of the game to resolve all of the issues.

[Allen Spellwaver]

Dyranos wrote...

Allen Spellwaver wrote...

Why people hate it?It is an absolutely logial ending and I like it.

Id love you to explain to me how anything that occurs within the last 10 minutes of the game is logical to the plot or the mass effect universe in general

The whole ending?That's a long story.

[PinkysPain]

Super-Model wrote...

Certainly not, would they want to go ahead and send out an FU to the fans and in doing so alienate them and lose potential future business? I don't think so

EA already forced Mac Walters to rewrite the relay destruction, which was core to his preferred ending. I think he was very much in a vindictive state of mind ...

The Mass Relay retcon is the only consolation I have really ... now we're all losers in this game, even Mac Walters.

Modifié par PinkysPain, 29 juin 2012 - 04:55 .

[Dyranos]

The second one didnt come out,
2.any artificial or improbable device resolving the difficulties of a plot.

[Atrave]

Dyranos wrote...

 I get the absolute feeling here that this is Casey Hudson talking, if we dont like the endings we are provided with and we heriocally say no we are rewarded with "SO BE IT!" Then everyone dies.

Essentially a giant middle finger to the fans, ME3 has caused me to lose so much respect for bioware and its head team its unreal, well played Hudson.

Here is the problem with the reject ending: Abruptness.  If they had maybe put in more voice over with a slideshow-like they did for the other endings-then it may have been better accepted.  The way it is now, you see shepard look sad/dejected and you get liara saying we failed.  Maybe her saying we fought to the bitter end with images of the normandy, the fleet, war assets, and such giving it their all would have been better received.  Since they already had the voice actor come in for EC dialog, it would have not been hard to add 10 lines for the reject ending.  And a few artist doing 5-10 pictures of everyone fighting to the bitter end would of also not have been too hard, I would think.  Anyway, just a thought.

What do you think?

[Dyranos]

Atrave wrote...

Dyranos wrote...

 I get the absolute feeling here that this is Casey Hudson talking, if we dont like the endings we are provided with and we heriocally say no we are rewarded with "SO BE IT!" Then everyone dies.

Essentially a giant middle finger to the fans, ME3 has caused me to lose so much respect for bioware and its head team its unreal, well played Hudson.

Here is the problem with the reject ending: Abruptness.  If they had maybe put in more voice over with a slideshow-like they did for the other endings-then it may have been better accepted.  The way it is now, you see shepard look sad/dejected and you get liara saying we failed.  Maybe her saying we fought to the bitter end with images of the normandy, the fleet, war assets, and such giving it their all would have been better received.  Since they already had the voice actor come in for EC dialog, it would have not been hard to add 10 lines for the reject ending.  And a few artist doing 5-10 pictures of everyone fighting to the bitter end would of also not have been too hard, I would think.  Anyway, just a thought.

What do you think?

I agree with you, but I dont think it was intended to be an ending, more of an anti ending, its saying that if you dont chose these options then screw you you all die, and in the future the reapers are stopped, Its also clear that if there is an future DLC or mass effect games this will not be the ending that is used while the other three are all prime candidates, so I dont really consider it an ending even if they added more stuff to it

[Clayless]

"A Deus ex Machina is when an outside force fixes a seemingly unsolvable problem in an unexpected way. If the secret documents are in Russian, one of the spies suddenly reveals that they learned the language. If the writers have just lost funding, a millionaire suddenly arrives, announces an interest in their movie, and offers all the finances they need to make it." -Tv Tropes

"A deus ex machina is a plot device whereby a seemingly unsolvable problem is suddenly and abruptly solved with the contrived and unexpected intervention of some new event, character, ability, or object." -Wikipedia

The Crucible does everything, the Catalyst isn't new it is known about from the start of the game, and when we reach the Catalyst it solves nothing, it just relays what the Crucible does.

Not a deus ex machina.

Modifié par Our_Last_Scene, 29 juin 2012 - 05:01 .

[Bomma72]

To me "So Be It" is a "tell" to the Catalyst true nature.

[Aurvant]

The next cycle couldn't have used The Crucible because Liara specifically stated to them in the archives that it DID NOT WORK.

Also, the only person who would have ever been aware of the catalysts choices would have been Shepard...and Shepard never left The Citadel. The next cycle would have been told that The Crucible doesn't work, so they would have done something else that did.

Gamble must not actually read the things he writes.

[Dyranos]

Our_Last_Scene wrote...

"A Deus ex Machina is when an outside force fixes a seemingly unsolvable problem in an unexpected way. If the secret documents are in Russian, one of the spies suddenly reveals that they learned the language. If the writers have just lost funding, a millionaire suddenly arrives, announces an interest in their movie, and offers all the finances they need to make it." -Tv Tropes

"A deus ex machina is a plot device whereby a seemingly unsolvable problem is suddenly and abruptly solved with the contrived and unexpected intervention of some new event, character, ability, or object." -Wikipedia

The Crucible does everything, the Catalyst isn't new it is known about from the start of the game, and when we reach the Catalyst it solves nothing, it just relays what the Crucible does.

Not a deus ex machina.

It Is deus ex machina, your quote even says it. The catalyst is the unexpected interention of a character whom we know NOTHING about, it doesnt matter if we are looking for the catalyst because it turns out to be something completely unexpected to the plot that introduces an unexpected way to solve the problem, Even if we are looking for the catalyst the entire game the "Star Child" is a brand new character introduced to us right at the end who offers ways to stop the reapers, without him Shepard would not have known what to do or even get up that platform, the fact that we were looking for the catalyst since the start of the game is redundant because the Star Child is a new character introduced in the last 10 minutes of the game, there is no way around it and you should stop denying the facts, it is a Deus Ex Machina.

[tyrvas]

Carlthestrange wrote...

The only real issue I have with the Reject ending is this.

"My solution won't work anymore."

"SO BE IT! The cycle continues."

...Hang on, you said your solution won't work anymore. So you decide to... carry on anyway? You just contradicted your own logic.

But bah, that statement kinda makes you wonder if it is all a trap after all.

The Catalyst also said that he could not make the new choices, but that Shepard could.

So if you reject all given choices the Catalyst continues his cycles until next organic comes
along and has the same choices again. Unless they make a better Crucible which would
alter the variables even more, which would give the next organics more options...

Modifié par tyrvas, 29 juin 2012 - 05:15 .

[Vox Draco]

K2LU533 wrote...

DiebytheSword wrote...

This was in no way a middle finger, people were clamoring for an ending like this when the original endings hit, and they got it.

THIS. A conventional victory is not possible, this is stamped into you multiple times during ME3.

It is also stated numerous times that you cannot control the Reapers, even towards the end, but lo and behold!

Conventional victory IS possible if the writers had decided to go that route. If you write a story, then you make the rules. Just because Hackett says so doesn't mean the authors needed to believe him as well. Shepard is all about doing the IMPOSSIBLE, that is hammered into us from the beginning, and this impossible is achieved by Shepard, nit by Starkids granting wishes...

Therefore, reject with very high EMS should/could very well have led to a conventional victory with many planets burning and most ships vaporized, but possible. Especially if you make Shepard DO something in the end despite talk/listen...s/he is in the heart of the citadel, catalyst revealed himself...reject his offeres for easy victory and FIGHT for freedom! That was the ending MOST fans had wished for, even before teh controversy...