ghost9191 wrote...
Reorte wrote...
How many times does it need to be explained to people that genocide does not simply mean "killing lots of people"?
Genocide is defined as "the deliberate and systematic destruction, in whole or in part, of an ethnic, racial, religious, or national group
make it easy for you
you can even see the definitions:)
When it comes to the geth or quarian choice it depends. It's true if you have the chance to resolve their war peacefully.TudorWolf wrote...
Destroying the Bahak system was do or die, there was absolutely no other option.
Picking Destroy or letting the Quarians do the dirty work is genocide imposed on the Geth. You're knowingly killing them when there are other options on the table. There's no getting around this, it's a fact
Subject9x wrote...
Fauxnormal wrote...
Please learn what oblivious means.
Nope, not at all. But you're clearly trying to start an arguement. Also, your defensiveness amuses me.
take case A: a person is open-minded, when presented with a situation that is unfamiliar with them, they accept what happens. However, during acceptance, they also do not see the longer term ramifications of the situation.
I told you already, open-mind and oblivious are not mutually exclusive, also telling me to go 'learn what oblivious means' just makes your argument look weaker.
You're offering no refusal of my opinion about destroy, say we'll never agree, then rise to my dismissive comment - takes two to tango.
anyhoo; my argument still stands:Subject9x wrote...
geth/edi were killed by authorial fiat in an attempt to make the other 2 choices somehow palatable.
you claim theres nothing wrong with other two, but never provide any specific examples. I based my statement on looking at the writing of the game.
HagarIshay wrote...
Fauxnormal wrote...
Like killing quite a few people, to start with. And they did not join the reapers do to not wanting to be destroyed. Please go check your facts before making a case.
I never said they didn't. I've chosen all three endings and all three have merit. However, the simple fact is if, say, 2000 have to die to save 2,000,000, then I am willing to allow that to happen in my game.
They did nothing that organics won't do if they were in their positions. Threatend. And as Legion states in ME3: "They were, afraid". They heretics joined the reapers because they didn't want to get destroyed in ME3. before that the geth got messed up by the reapers.
TudorWolf wrote...
Alex_Dur4and wrote...
Come on people!!! Shepard killed a whole Batarian solar system simply to "delay" the reapers... I don't think that he would mind sacrificing AI to destroy them! The fact that he takes time to even think about the options proposed to him by the catalyst was, before the EC, all I needed in order to beleive in the IT. It's clear that Shepard developped, over time, a blind hate for them and I'm pretty sure that he would normal stop at nothing to see them burn!
Destroying the Bahak system was do or die, there was absolutely no other option.
Picking Destroy or letting the Quarians do the dirty work is genocide imposed on the Geth. You're knowingly killing them when there are other options on the table. There's no getting around this, it's a fact
G Kevin wrote...
Why can't people just head canon the Geth back in destroy? I'm pretty sure they omitted the Geth being destroyed so that you could do just this.
It very much is. How could "deliberate and systematic destruction" be carried out without it? There's a trial going on in The Hague right now that makes this very clear (irrespective of whether you think the right or wrong decision was reached). Intent is a key part of it.wantedman dan wrote...
ghost9191 wrote...
Reorte wrote...
How many times does it need to be explained to people that genocide does not simply mean "killing lots of people"?
Genocide is defined as "the deliberate and systematic destruction, in whole or in part, of an ethnic, racial, religious, or national group
make it easy for you
you can even see the definitions:)
Thank you. Genocide isn't definitively precluded with madness or malice.
ghost9191 wrote...
uyeah whereas for me i just get the feeling control is wrong in it's own way, the risk is not worth it. i hate doing it but in my mind destroy ends the threat where with control there is still the threat. to each his own though
AxStapleton wrote...
TudorWolf wrote...
Alex_Dur4and wrote...
Come on people!!! Shepard killed a whole Batarian solar system simply to "delay" the reapers... I don't think that he would mind sacrificing AI to destroy them! The fact that he takes time to even think about the options proposed to him by the catalyst was, before the EC, all I needed in order to beleive in the IT. It's clear that Shepard developped, over time, a blind hate for them and I'm pretty sure that he would normal stop at nothing to see them burn!
Destroying the Bahak system was do or die, there was absolutely no other option.
Picking Destroy or letting the Quarians do the dirty work is genocide imposed on the Geth. You're knowingly killing them when there are other options on the table. There's no getting around this, it's a fact
There's also no getting around imposing your will on all forms of life in the Galaxy. Either through Control or Synthesis. All the choices presented are morally repulsive. They all have different costs and different things that can go horribly wrong.
AxStapleton wrote...
TudorWolf wrote...
Alex_Dur4and wrote...
Come on people!!! Shepard killed a whole Batarian solar system simply to "delay" the reapers... I don't think that he would mind sacrificing AI to destroy them! The fact that he takes time to even think about the options proposed to him by the catalyst was, before the EC, all I needed in order to beleive in the IT. It's clear that Shepard developped, over time, a blind hate for them and I'm pretty sure that he would normal stop at nothing to see them burn!
Destroying the Bahak system was do or die, there was absolutely no other option.
Picking Destroy or letting the Quarians do the dirty work is genocide imposed on the Geth. You're knowingly killing them when there are other options on the table. There's no getting around this, it's a fact
There's also no getting around imposing your will on all forms of life in the Galaxy. Either through Control or Synthesis. All the choices presented are morally repulsive. They all have different costs and different things that can go horribly wrong.
Shephard did not truly kill the batarians, he tried to warn them infact. That they died isn't completely his fault. It would be more like Manslaughter, than the murder commited by shepard versus the geth. And, if your shepard let the geth get so far as to help with the crucible, then in fact, either your shepard is the type who likes to grant peoples dreams and then take them away, or your shep isn't so boiond hatred-ey about the geth as you would think.Alex_Dur4and wrote...
Come on people!!! Shepard killed a whole Batarian solar system simply to "delay" the reapers... I don't think that he would mind sacrificing AI to destroy them! The fact that he takes time to even think about the options proposed to him by the catalyst was, before the EC, all I needed in order to beleive in the IT. It's clear that Shepard developped, over time, a blind hate for them and I'm pretty sure that he would normal stop at nothing to see them burn!
HagarIshay wrote...
ghost9191 wrote...
uyeah whereas for me i just get the feeling control is wrong in it's own way, the risk is not worth it. i hate doing it but in my mind destroy ends the threat where with control there is still the threat. to each his own though
On that I won't argue. There are problems with control. The risk is big, not to mention inslevemt is not my favorite thing in the world. But I am positive Shepard will control. The question is for how long until s/he'll become power hungry. As a paragon, my guess is long. Long enough for the galaxy to be advanced enough and destroy the reapers on their own. So I consider the choice good, even with the risk to it.
HagarIshay wrote...
ghost9191 wrote...
uyeah whereas for me i just get the feeling control is wrong in it's own way, the risk is not worth it. i hate doing it but in my mind destroy ends the threat where with control there is still the threat. to each his own though
On that I won't argue. There are problems with control. The risk is big, not to mention inslevemt is not my favorite thing in the world. But I am positive Shepard will control. The question is for how long until s/he'll become power hungry. As a paragon, my guess is long. Long enough for the galaxy to be advanced enough and destroy the reapers on their own. So I consider the choice good, even with the risk to it.
DevilBeast wrote...
Fauxnormal wrote...
HagarIshay wrote...
Fauxnormal wrote...
They did a lot wrong.
And yet AGAIN, this is war. In war, there will be casualties. Every single sentiant being that takes part in this war is willing to die for it and accepts the fact that they might.
Did they? Like... Joining the reapers to continue their existence because they didn't want to be destroyed?
And I consider it more important to save lives in a war than to kill your enemy, if the war will be stopped either way. You have the option to save the synthetics. Don't they deserve to be saved?
Like killing quite a few people, to start with. And they did not join the reapers do to not wanting to be destroyed. Please go check your facts before making a case.
I never said they didn't. I've chosen all three endings and all three have merit. However, the simple fact is if, say, 2000 have to die to save 2,000,000, then I am willing to allow that to happen in my game.
Sacrifice the few for the many. That is how I view it too, and as such have no problem in choosing destroy.
Reorte wrote...
Intent is a key part of it.
Gibril wrote...
Shephard did not truly kill the batarians, he tried to warn them infact. That they died isn't completely his fault. It would be more like Manslaughter, than the murder commited by shepard versus the geth. And, if your shepard let the geth get so far as to help with the crucible, then in fact, either your shepard is the type who likes to grant peoples dreams and then take them away, or your shep isn't so boiond hatred-ey about the geth as you would think.Alex_Dur4and wrote...
Come on people!!! Shepard killed a whole Batarian solar system simply to "delay" the reapers... I don't think that he would mind sacrificing AI to destroy them! The fact that he takes time to even think about the options proposed to him by the catalyst was, before the EC, all I needed in order to beleive in the IT. It's clear that Shepard developped, over time, a blind hate for them and I'm pretty sure that he would normal stop at nothing to see them burn!
Fauxnormal wrote...
That doesn't make it acceptable or right.
Again, you're incorrect.
And they got 'messed up' by the reaspers indeed, but that has no bearing on our conversation.
It isn't about them 'deserving' to die. It's about accpetable losses in a war. If they were human, quarian, batarian, or krogan, I'd do the same.
wantedman dan wrote...
Because I didn't pay $70 for imagination time, nor should anyone else have.
Fauxnormal wrote...
AxStapleton wrote...
TudorWolf wrote...
Alex_Dur4and wrote...
Come on people!!! Shepard killed a whole Batarian solar system simply to "delay" the reapers... I don't think that he would mind sacrificing AI to destroy them! The fact that he takes time to even think about the options proposed to him by the catalyst was, before the EC, all I needed in order to beleive in the IT. It's clear that Shepard developped, over time, a blind hate for them and I'm pretty sure that he would normal stop at nothing to see them burn!
Destroying the Bahak system was do or die, there was absolutely no other option.
Picking Destroy or letting the Quarians do the dirty work is genocide imposed on the Geth. You're knowingly killing them when there are other options on the table. There's no getting around this, it's a fact
There's also no getting around imposing your will on all forms of life in the Galaxy. Either through Control or Synthesis. All the choices presented are morally repulsive. They all have different costs and different things that can go horribly wrong.
Thank God. For once, not a bland, boring, Disney ending, but one that makes you make a choice.
if they are all equally bad to you, put down the game, and go away. That's your choice, and no one is stopping you.
wantedman dan wrote...
Reorte wrote...
Intent is a key part of it.
I snipped the rest of your post for being incorrect. Intent is a key part of anything, yes. Genocide, however, is not defined by it. You are deliberately killing synthetics by choosing destroy. There is no way around that.
BulletFMV2413 wrote...
but their just sythetics.......when legion says does this unit have a soul has much as you want to say yes you do have a soul legion......he doesn't
HagarIshay wrote...
Fauxnormal wrote...
That doesn't make it acceptable or right.
Again, you're incorrect.
And they got 'messed up' by the reaspers indeed, but that has no bearing on our conversation.
It isn't about them 'deserving' to die. It's about accpetable losses in a war. If they were human, quarian, batarian, or krogan, I'd do the same.
Doesn't it? I wouldn't kill organics for the mistakes they made because someone held a gun to their face. Why should it be different to synthetics?
Then why did they join the reapers? That is what I saw on my playthrough.
I know you didn't meant them deserving to die and I'm sorry if I implied that. I'm just trying to say that (at least for me) the synthetics dying are not acceptable losses.
= geth and edi not dead!
Modifié par robdunnhill, 29 juin 2012 - 07:12 .
AxStapleton wrote...
Fauxnormal wrote...
AxStapleton wrote...
TudorWolf wrote...
Alex_Dur4and wrote...
Come on people!!! Shepard killed a whole Batarian solar system simply to "delay" the reapers... I don't think that he would mind sacrificing AI to destroy them! The fact that he takes time to even think about the options proposed to him by the catalyst was, before the EC, all I needed in order to beleive in the IT. It's clear that Shepard developped, over time, a blind hate for them and I'm pretty sure that he would normal stop at nothing to see them burn!
Destroying the Bahak system was do or die, there was absolutely no other option.
Picking Destroy or letting the Quarians do the dirty work is genocide imposed on the Geth. You're knowingly killing them when there are other options on the table. There's no getting around this, it's a fact
There's also no getting around imposing your will on all forms of life in the Galaxy. Either through Control or Synthesis. All the choices presented are morally repulsive. They all have different costs and different things that can go horribly wrong.
Thank God. For once, not a bland, boring, Disney ending, but one that makes you make a choice.
if they are all equally bad to you, put down the game, and go away. That's your choice, and no one is stopping you.
Did I say they were complete crap? No. My point is that these arguments of saying one is better than the other is pointless. Read before you type please.
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