287 réponses à ce sujet

[Reorte]

wantedman dan wrote...

Reorte wrote...

Intent is a key part of it.

I snipped the rest of your post for being incorrect. Intent is a key part of anything, yes. Genocide, however, is not defined by it. You are deliberately killing synthetics by choosing destroy. There is no way around that.

No, it was not incorrect unless you think that what's going on in The Hague right now is incorrect. I am not deliberately killing the geth. OED definition of "deliberate": -  done consciously and intentionally.

[wantedman dan]

Fauxnormal wrote...

that does not make it genocide. Sorry.

Briliant defense you have.

Care to reinforce that? I have. It's called the literal definition of genocide. 

[ghost9191]

lesser of 3 evils. would say 4 but standing there like a idiot isn't that evil

[Hendrik.III]

Killing machines is not genocide.

To me, Geth and EDI are not life. They are self-aware and have an own personality - but there's more to life than that. Sensation, emotion and death are an integral part of being alive, something they ultimately lack.

[AxStapleton]

Fauxnormal wrote...

AxStapleton wrote...

Fauxnormal wrote...

AxStapleton wrote...

TudorWolf wrote...

Alex_Dur4and wrote...

Come on people!!! Shepard killed a whole Batarian solar system simply to "delay" the reapers... I don't think that he would mind sacrificing AI to destroy them! The fact that he takes time to even think about the options proposed to him by the catalyst was, before the EC, all I needed in order to beleive in the IT. It's clear that Shepard developped, over time, a blind hate for them and I'm pretty sure that he would normal stop at nothing to see them burn!

Destroying the Bahak system was do or die, there was absolutely no other option.

Picking Destroy or letting the Quarians do the dirty work is genocide imposed on the Geth. You're knowingly killing them when there are other options on the table. There's no getting around this, it's a fact

There's also no getting around imposing your will on all forms of life in the Galaxy. Either through Control or Synthesis. All the choices presented are morally repulsive. They all have different costs and different things that can go horribly wrong.

Thank God. For once, not a bland, boring, Disney ending, but one that makes you make a choice.

if they are all equally bad to you, put down the game, and go away. That's your choice, and no one is stopping you.

Did I say they were complete crap? No. My point is that these arguments of saying one is better than the other is pointless. Read before you type please.

'All the choices presented are morally repulsive'.

Because technically they are. Genocide or Compromising freewill. Maybe I should reword it for you.

Any one of the choices could be viewed as morally repulsive.

[ghost9191]

hey someone could've spaced out when the catalyst said that the geth would be destroyed, might've missed it and went in not knowing they were going to destroy them

[wantedman dan]

Reorte wrote...

wantedman dan wrote...

Reorte wrote...

Intent is a key part of it.

I snipped the rest of your post for being incorrect. Intent is a key part of anything, yes. Genocide, however, is not defined by it. You are deliberately killing synthetics by choosing destroy. There is no way around that.

No, it was not incorrect unless you think that what's going on in The Hague right now is incorrect. I am not deliberately killing the geth. OED definition of "deliberate": -  done consciously and intentionally.

What? That is absolutely absurd. By thinking Genocide is wrong on all fronts... I think prosecuting those who commit it is wrong.

I'm glad you looked up the definition of deliberate, considering it absolutely applies to the choice of destruciton. You were informed that it WOULD destroy all synthetics, that it WOULD kill them all. Yet you chose it anyway, consciously and intentionally. If you weren't informed beforehand of its consequences, their deaths would not be deliberate.

[Fauxnormal]

AxStapleton wrote...

Fauxnormal wrote...

AxStapleton wrote...

Fauxnormal wrote...

AxStapleton wrote...

TudorWolf wrote...

Alex_Dur4and wrote...

Come on people!!! Shepard killed a whole Batarian solar system simply to "delay" the reapers... I don't think that he would mind sacrificing AI to destroy them! The fact that he takes time to even think about the options proposed to him by the catalyst was, before the EC, all I needed in order to beleive in the IT. It's clear that Shepard developped, over time, a blind hate for them and I'm pretty sure that he would normal stop at nothing to see them burn!

Destroying the Bahak system was do or die, there was absolutely no other option.

Picking Destroy or letting the Quarians do the dirty work is genocide imposed on the Geth. You're knowingly killing them when there are other options on the table. There's no getting around this, it's a fact

There's also no getting around imposing your will on all forms of life in the Galaxy. Either through Control or Synthesis. All the choices presented are morally repulsive. They all have different costs and different things that can go horribly wrong.

Thank God. For once, not a bland, boring, Disney ending, but one that makes you make a choice.

if they are all equally bad to you, put down the game, and go away. That's your choice, and no one is stopping you.

Did I say they were complete crap? No. My point is that these arguments of saying one is better than the other is pointless. Read before you type please.

'All the choices presented are morally repulsive'.

Because technically they are. Genocide or Compromising freewill. Maybe I should reword it for you.

Any one of the choices could be viewed as morally repulsive.

Actually, yes, that helps; I saw it as your disliking all three choices equally.  The choice of wording threw me; my appologies. You're correct; all three have up and downsides.

[Reorte]

AxStapleton wrote...

Because technically they are. Genocide or Compromising freewill. Maybe I should reword it for you.

Any one of the choices could be viewed as morally repulsive.

Faced with no alternative you've done nothing immoral if you chose the least bad option. Of course there may be plenty of argument about which is the least bad option...

[wantedman dan]

Reorte wrote...

AxStapleton wrote...

Because technically they are. Genocide or Compromising freewill. Maybe I should reword it for you.

Any one of the choices could be viewed as morally repulsive.

Faced with no alternative you've done nothing immoral if you chose the least bad option. Of course there may be plenty of argument about which is the least bad option...

or, you could pick the option of self-determination, which was poorly done in its own right.

[Shaleist]

Genocide of 1 or genocise of all? I pick 1. And yes xynthesis is worse to me... Control struck me as too risky.

[eye basher]

Our_Last_Scene wrote...

Seeing as though they are self-aware beings it is genocide.

self aware how do i no that because they say so they could have been designed to belive their self aware the same way the catalyst was designed to belive in the bull**** he tries to sell you at the end besides their reapertech and that's not a good thing.

[AxStapleton]

Fauxnormal wrote...


Actually, yes, that helps; I saw it as your disliking all three choices equally.  The choice of wording threw me; my appologies. You're correct; all three have up and downsides.

No worries

[Fauxnormal]

wantedman dan wrote...

Reorte wrote...

AxStapleton wrote...

Because technically they are. Genocide or Compromising freewill. Maybe I should reword it for you.

Any one of the choices could be viewed as morally repulsive.

Faced with no alternative you've done nothing immoral if you chose the least bad option. Of course there may be plenty of argument about which is the least bad option...

or, you could pick the option of self-determination, which was poorly done in its own right.

Please don't start whining about not getting to win through 'Refuse'.

The entire set up was that this was THE ONLY WAY to beat the Reapers. Sorry, love, your willpower isn't magic.

[Fauxnormal]

eye basher wrote...

Our_Last_Scene wrote...

Seeing as though they are self-aware beings it is genocide.

self aware how do i no that because they say so they could have been designed to belive their self aware the same way the catalyst was designed to belive in the bull**** he tries to sell you at the end besides their reapertech and that's not a good thing.

This is the most idiotic blather I have ever read.

Also, please learn punctuation.

[Subject9x]

Fauxnormal wrote...
Sorry, love, your willpower isn't magic. 

crucible certainly seems to be....

[Ageless Face]

Fauxnormal wrote...

no, it doesn't. Murder is murder is murder, I don't care if it was 'because you made a mistake'. The Geth commited multiuple atrocities. Period.

And yes. They are.

To save the rest of the galexy? You bet your ass they are.

I don't see it this way, I'm happy to say. It's not about them making mistakes, it's about them forced to do those mistakes. I will not blame them for it. I will act on self defence if I must, but I will not hold it against them.
 
They are...What?

I chose another choice which both saved them and the rest of the galaxy. Destroy perhaps stops the reaper threat permanently, but it don't treat it as it is the only option to stop the war.

[ghost9191]

Fauxnormal wrote...

wantedman dan wrote...

Reorte wrote...

AxStapleton wrote...

Because technically they are. Genocide or Compromising freewill. Maybe I should reword it for you.

Any one of the choices could be viewed as morally repulsive.

Faced with no alternative you've done nothing immoral if you chose the least bad option. Of course there may be plenty of argument about which is the least bad option...

or, you could pick the option of self-determination, which was poorly done in its own right.

Please don't start whining about not getting to win through 'Refuse'.

The entire set up was that this was THE ONLY WAY to beat the Reapers. Sorry, love, your willpower isn't magic.

well maybe if they used the power love they could've won earlier

[Reorte]

wantedman dan wrote...

Reorte wrote...

No, it was not incorrect unless you think that what's going on in The Hague right now is incorrect. I am not deliberately killing the geth. OED definition of "deliberate": -  done consciously and intentionally.

What? That is absolutely absurd. By thinking Genocide is wrong on all fronts... I think prosecuting those who commit it is wrong.

I'm glad you looked up the definition of deliberate, considering it absolutely applies to the choice of destruciton. You were informed that it WOULD destroy all synthetics, that it WOULD kill them all. Yet you chose it anyway, consciously and intentionally. If you weren't informed beforehand of its consequences, their deaths would not be deliberate.

"Intentionally" implies intent - the reason you do something. The reason for choosing Destroy is not to kill the geth. That is not my intent. For something to be intentional it has to be the reason that I'm doing it. You can level the genocide accusation against me for the Reapers dying if you want.

[Fauxnormal]

Subject9x wrote...

Fauxnormal wrote...
Sorry, love, your willpower isn't magic. 

crucible certainly seems to be....

And one has nothing to do with the other.

You can not magically willpower the Reapers away. That the game essentially laughed in your face should not be a surprise, primarily because most of you only chose that option as a childish way of defying the creators of the game itself.

And any 'in game' logic isn't. I've heard people 'defending' the choice, and it's troll logic at best.

[Fauxnormal]

ghost9191 wrote...

Fauxnormal wrote...

wantedman dan wrote...

Reorte wrote...

AxStapleton wrote...

Because technically they are. Genocide or Compromising freewill. Maybe I should reword it for you.

Any one of the choices could be viewed as morally repulsive.

Faced with no alternative you've done nothing immoral if you chose the least bad option. Of course there may be plenty of argument about which is the least bad option...

or, you could pick the option of self-determination, which was poorly done in its own right.

Please don't start whining about not getting to win through 'Refuse'.

The entire set up was that this was THE ONLY WAY to beat the Reapers. Sorry, love, your willpower isn't magic.

well maybe if they used the power love they could've won earlier

WITH YOUR POWERS COMBINED, I, AM COMMANDER SHEPARD!

[Reorte]

wantedman dan wrote...

Reorte wrote...

Faced with no alternative you've done nothing immoral if you chose the least bad option. Of course there may be plenty of argument about which is the least bad option...

or, you could pick the option of self-determination, which was poorly done in its own right.

It's still one of the options which you need to decide whether it's the least bad or not.

[Fauxnormal]

HagarIshay wrote...

Fauxnormal wrote...

no, it doesn't. Murder is murder is murder, I don't care if it was 'because you made a mistake'. The Geth commited multiuple atrocities. Period.

And yes. They are.

To save the rest of the galexy? You bet your ass they are.

I don't see it this way, I'm happy to say. It's not about them making mistakes, it's about them forced to do those mistakes. I will not blame them for it. I will act on self defence if I must, but I will not hold it against them.
 
They are...What?

I chose another choice which both saved them and the rest of the galaxy. Destroy perhaps stops the reaper threat permanently, but it don't treat it as it is the only option to stop the war.

Again, we come back to you being young or sheltered. Murder. Is. Murder. They killed people. It doesn't matter WHY they killed people and worse. The WHY is beside the point.

And I never said there was anything wrong with it. I made that choice on one of my Shepards, too.

But to make the same choice over and over again because you can't accept that in a war there will be casualities is purely stupid.

Modifié par Fauxnormal, 29 juin 2012 - 07:24 .

[TreguardD]

Question: Would EDI and the Geth believe their sacrifice to be worth while?

http://www.fanfictio...e_space_between

[Ranger Jack Walker]

I can never consider Destroy as 'saving the many at the cost of a few' when there are two options that are 'save everyone'.

To those who who say Control is Risky, have you considered that others won't see it the same way. To me, a paragon Shepard choosing Control would be a good thing, I think he/she will stay as a benevolent guardian who doesn't interfere with free will. Just because you think otherwise doesn't mean Shepard going corrupt is the only possible outcome.