459 réponses à ce sujet

[RShara]

I wouldn't bash anyone for making reasoned and honest opinions. Sadly, many people refuse to open their eyes or think about anything but their narrow little perspective, and others are just downright trolling.

Unfortunately, it's true, we get maybe 2 lines of unique dialogue, a....questionable make out session...and a couple extra words when he dies.

If during the original game, they had not dropped the ball (as BW has admitted), then I think just more connection with Thane and better treatment of his death would have been bittersweet, but acceptable.

But that wasn't the case, and the lack of any kind of concession or acknowlegement from Bioware (other than that they screwed up) has pissed a lot of people off enough that we really do want that life extention and cure at this point.

It's like the case of the EC--some people are satisfied, but a lot are also of the "Too Little Too Late" mindset.

[RenegonSQ]

mythlover20 wrote...

@RenegonSQ Thank you for taking the time to explain your opinion. It's more than what other people are doing. Also, thank you for acknowledging that there is a need for more interaction with the character.

To counteract the death point: if you don't want to save him: don't. If you do, then we can. That's all we want: the option. Those who want him to die can still do so, but for those of us who want him to live, it's only fair that we be allowed to do so. EQUAL TREATMENT and all that. Just because Thane is a FemShep LI doesn't mean that he should be killed off, and leaving FemShep with only the whiney (Kaidan) and bicurious (Liara) choices.

As for the possibility of Thane rejecting any possible treatments... well, you'll need to read my post on the first page regarding the Thanemancing Demographic in order to understand this... but if you love someone, you do what it takes to stay with them. Plain and simple. If not, then no one would dare put themselves through the ordeal of chemotherapy, or surgery with low-survival odds once they were diagnosed with a terminal illness.

As for Shepard being god.... well, she may be involved in a lot of life-saving projects in some way, but she has never been a god. The genophage was cured by a Salarian, the quarian-immunity problem was solved by quarians and geth. Shepard didn't save the citadel in me1 all by herself, she had an army with her, and she had her squadmates in me2 to stop the Collectors. She may be a powerful person, but she is no god.

A Keprals cure? That would have been solved by drell and the hanar. It is the primary health issue among the drell species so you can guarantee that there are multiple projects addressing this issue. A possible cure may be finally initialised if you save Mordin during the tuchanka mission, and Thane might be given priority for any potential cure the hanar have come up with thanks to her actions during the side-mission involving Kasumi and the corrupt hanar, as well as the drell/hanar war assets. There are many ways that Thane could be saved that are not at all contrived (like the quarians) and given how it was foreshadowed all throughout ME2, and the interum between me2 and me3, NOT having a treatment is just lazy.

But about the option, if it were there then anyone but a full-blown Renegade would choose it because Thane is a very respectable character. no matter what side of the fence you play. I can't put logic behind that but I'm pretty sure of it.

That correlates with my response to your interpretation of my "God" comment. I hate to draw from other threads and posts to prove a point here but it's the only way I know of at the moment. Think about the people who chose the Synthesis ending for a second. We can say that Shepard didn't "make this happen", but instead The Crucible activated some weird device persay, that somehow fused organics and synthetics together as one. But in all reality, people chose synthesis for themselves. Just as people would choose to save Thane, in a God-like act. Acts such as that disturb me because I don't see Shepard as an omnipotent being, but I see him as someone who does what it takes to get the job done at all costs if possible(just to put it in simpler terms.)

It's not that I wouldn't save Thane, because given the option I probably would. But I don't feel like Thane's life lies in the hands of Shepard.

Modifié par RenegonSQ, 30 juin 2012 - 08:53 .

[Remanentmoss01]

I dont think it was just Thane, The whole game was too thin when it came to character interaction, Like Vega says on Palavans moon , Where is the meat,
Even Garrus/Liara/Tali didn't get much time though granted it was more than Thane and we didn't even get Tali until the game was near enough finished,
I think BW just gave us what it could within the time it had to make the game

[RShara]

Renegon--my pet theory for how Thane gets cured is actually pretty complicated and full of moral and ethical considerations. It really isn't a magical cure, it's complicated and messy.
But if it's still something that you wouldn't be comfortable with, how about just a life extension--a lung transplant or medigel for the lungs, or something, that would extend his life until the hanar finished their work on the real cure?

[RenegonSQ]

RShara wrote...

Renegon--my pet theory for how Thane gets cured is actually pretty complicated and full of moral and ethical considerations. It really isn't a magical cure, it's complicated and messy.
But if it's still something that you wouldn't be comfortable with, how about just a life extension--a lung transplant or medigel for the lungs, or something, that would extend his life until the hanar finished their work on the real cure?

As long as that extension provides further connection for those who chose to romance him, I can't say that I would object to that. That seems pretty reasonable, actually.

[RShara]

I think most Thanemancers would be overjoyed with a life extension that allowed further connection, to hold him over until the hanar cure was complete.

[Steel Dancer]

Took an hour out of my life to do this.  

Think something like this is what most Thanemancers are after: Just the possibility that Thane could survive in their playthroughs.

Warning: WoT incoming!

Thane Romance Variables:
 
First conversation on the Citadel:
 
If non-romanced:
Mostly plays as is, with retcon of disease removed and “additional complications and secondary infections” put in instead to maintain narrative cohesion.
 
If romanced and LotSB not completed:
Mostly plays as is, with retcon of disease removed and ““additional complications and secondary infections” put in instead to maintain narrative cohesion.
 
If romanced and LotSB completed:
Mostly plays as is, with retcon of disease removed and a “benefactor who has provided additional, somewhat expensive medical care. These treatments are quite intensive and I would be unable to receive them elsewhere. Fortunately there have been no additional complications to my illness, although I am not what I was.”
 
Liara on-ship conversation option:
*“Thane” on dialogue wheel*
“Have you been using your influence to get him medical treatment?”
 
If Liara was NOT romanced: (happily) “Yes, I know how important he is to you, and what kind of friend would I be if I didn’t help?”
 
If Liara WAS romanced: (not happy, not quite meeting Shepards’ eyes) “…Yes. I know how… important he is to you. What kind of… of friend would I be if I didn’t help?”
 
(Possible option for non-LotBS completion, may be unnecessary – if asked about helping Thane, Liara mentions the fight for the SB ship destroyed a number of data banks, she thinks the files on Shepards crew were in amongst those)
 

________________________________________________________________________________________
 

Second later LI only Thane conversation – meal at the presidium commons, all about romance and grants Paramour achievement 
 
________________________________________________________________________________________
 
Priority: Citadel II
 
Main change with Thane fighting Kai Leng: Shepard orders squad mates to get the Councillor out of the room to safety (better than them standing there like idiots).
 
Variable 1.0: Thane non-romanced:
Current scene runs as is with Thane mortally wounded in fight for the Citadel. Shepard gets a few shots in but it's not enough - KLs cloaking/shields/plot armour is too effective.
 
Variable 2.0: Romanced Thane; Kirrahe died in ME1: LotSB not completed.
Thane's still mortally wounded in fight scene. Shepard gets a few shots in but it's not enough - KLs cloaking/shields/plot armour is too effective. Improved LI specific conversation pieces at hospital deathbed scene; crew conversations offer condolences via on-ship conversations.
 
Variable 2.5: Romanced Thane; Kirrahe died in ME1: LotSB completed.
Thane's still mortally wounded in fight after a (hopefully) improved fight scene. Shepard gets a few shots in but it's not enough - KLs cloaking/shields/plot armour is too effective. Improved LI specific conversation pieces at hospital deathbed scene; crew offer condolences via on-ship conversations.
 
Variable 3.0: Romanced Thane; Kirrahe lived in ME1: LotSB not completed.
Thane's still mortally wounded in fight scene. Shepard gets a few shots in but it's not enough - KLs cloaking/shields/plot armour is too effective. Kirrahe arrives and fires at KL with the Scorpion shifting the odds in Shepards favour, but just a little too late for Thane… Improved LI specific conversation pieces at hospital deathbed scene; crew conversations offer condolences via on-ship conversations.
 
Variable 3.5: Romanced Thane; Kirrahe lived in ME1: LotSB completed.
Thane fights KL in a (hopefully) improved fight scene. Shepard gets a few shots in but it's not enough - KLs cloaking/shields/plot armour is too effective. Just as KL is preparing to deliver a lethal blow to Thane, Kirrahe shoots KL in the back with the Scorpion. Explosion knocks KL flying; Thane is staggered and hurt but very much alive. KL decides discretion is the better part of trolling valour and exits, with Shepard (and squad) in hot pursuit.
 
 
For those who absolutely insist on a tragic ending; you could make the “few shots Shepard gets in” paragon/renegade interrupts which if not taken still result in Thanes’ death.
 
 
Possible follow up email from the salarian Councillor, promising to look into aiding the hanar research into a cure for Keprals Syndrome: not an immediate cure, but hope for the future, post-game. Headcanon gets to come out and play.

 


TL;DR version:
 
For Thane to survive you MUST have; Thane in a romance; Kirrahe alive; LotSB completed (and possibly some paragon/renegade interrupts made during the fight scene.).

Modifié par Steel Dancer, 30 juin 2012 - 10:01 .

[RShara]

Agreed!

[Y3Y00]

I admit, straight FemShep has only two viable romance options that are well-treated and nicely presented; Kaidan and Garrus, both of which can be at certain circumstances unotainable; death of Kaidan, and not romancing Garrus in ME2. Thus leaving her with effectively none, considering that Jacob cheats on you ( I don't know who'd romance him to begin with ) and Thane dies. So yeah, in spite of happily romancing Liara, I'd imagine how exasperating and aggravating it can be to have your romance mistreated. But do you honestly think that Bioware will release a DLC with no real demand?! I mean, Thane's fan base isn't exactly mind-boggling. So unless if it's an awful amount of people, Bioware won't respond. Albeit I truly wish you'd get a DLC or something. Good luck. (:

[RShara]

We have a lot of projects going to show Bioware how many people would like an expansion that allows more time with all of the ME2 crewmates. Yeah, we probably will be ignored, but we still have to try.

[LoonySpectre]

Shepard's squadmates aren't treated equally, but with Thane it's just too glaring. Here's a chart of sorts (everyone can die in ME2, so this won't be mentioned):

Liara: survives all 3 games no matter what
Garrus and Jacob survive ME3 if survived ME2
James and Javik survive ME3
Kaidan/Ashley: can die in ME1 (Virmire, left for dead) and ME3 (Cerberus coup, if Shepard doesn't manage to talk them down)
Wrex: can die in ME1 (Virmire, if Shepard doesn't manage to talk him down) and ME3 (if Shepard sabotaged the genophage cure)
Samara: can die in ME2 (if Shepard betrays her for Morinth) and ME3 (if Shepard doesn't stop her from shooting herself)
Morinth: can die in ME2 (if Shepard sides with Samara), dies in ME3 (turned into Banshee and shot by Shepard)
Tali: can die in ME3 (if Shepard sides with geth)
Miranda: can die in ME3 (if Shepard breaks up with her or doesn't warn her about Kai Leng)
Mordin: can die in ME3 (survives only if Wrex and Eve are both dead)
Jack: can die in ME3 (if Shepard doesn't save the Grissom Academy)
Grunt, Zaeed, Kasumi: can die in ME3 (if Shepard didn't do their loyalty missions in ME2)
Legion: dies no matter what in ME3 (either by disseminating its personality into the entire geth collective, stabbed by Tali, shot by Shala'Raan or, if Shepard gave it to Cerberus, shot by Shepard)
Thane: dies no matter what in ME3 (either stabbed by Kai Leng or off-screen)

So, Thane's death is indeed the worst-treated of all the squadmates. Shepard's prior actions don't influence his fate at all if he survived ME2.

Modifié par LoonySpectre, 30 juin 2012 - 11:00 .

[Moira-chan]

wanna put some things:
tali can die in me2 too
2. for mordin wrex has to be death from me1 and maelons data have to be destroyed (see @ mass effect wiki)
3. samara also dies if you don't do her loyal mission (it was in my pt because i cannot take this damn steps... <.< and her name appeard @ ec on my memorial wall before she was not on it)

but rest, ist soo true, loonyspectre

[wildannie]

@Steel Dancer I would be very happy with your suggestion, Thane surviving should have been hard to achieve but it should have been possible.

[Emeraldfern]

@SteelDancer
Like the Krogan shaman said in ME: "I like this human s/he understands!"

I would seriously be on board with your suggestion.

Having him survive when certain conditions where met was something I actually expected to be present ingame in the first place and the fact that it wasn't still boggles my mind.

Yet, can I be a greedy humble Siha and ask for a final goodbye like every other squadmate gets on earth?
And a few emails from him during the course of the game? 
 
Because if what you suggested and the above happened I'll be one Siha above the moon, as headcanon extravaganza would fill in the rest. And I'd actually muster up the desire play ME3 again with all of my playthroughs

(a total of 6 but technically only 5 would make since one of them is a Jacobmancer and that was just...ouch...I can't bring myself to import that playthrough ever)

[Renmiri1]

@Steel Dancer - Love it ^^

[LoonySpectre]

I think that a non-romanced but loyal Thane also needs to have a chance to survive. Because otherwise, we're going to have a FShep-exclusive gameplay content. As far as I remember, MShep and FShep gameplay in all 3 games is completely identical, save for some phrases and exclusive romance scenes.

[Thrazesul]

If they're identical, how come two of femsheps LIs are out for count compared to none for maleshep? (not counting Traynor)

But yes, anyone who wants him alive and not as a Li should still have the option.

Modifié par Nerana, 30 juin 2012 - 04:13 .

[LoonySpectre]

Well, there IS one MShep-exclusive decision that leads an ex-squadmate to death (breaking up with Miranda - she then dies in the hands of Kai Leng even if warned). But still, I'd like to have MShep to have a chance to save his friend Thane too.

Modifié par LoonySpectre, 30 juin 2012 - 04:16 .

[ziloe]

I didn't romance him, but he was one of my favourite characters. I support your cause.

[Moira-chan]

@loony: i can understand that. male shep should have the chance but it should be even difficulter than for romanced shep but i can understand, thane is a pretty nice friend

@ziloe: thaaaaaaaaaaanks

[LoonySpectre]

I would so much like to have Kolyat have more involvement in the mission. Like, it might be Kolyat who actually puts the gun to Kai Leng's head, but he's no assassin so Kai Leng quickly disables him in some way, and only then a VERY PISSED OFF Thane (who snuck out of the hospital when he learned that Kolyat decided to play hero) joins the fray.

Modifié par LoonySpectre, 30 juin 2012 - 05:41 .

[coldwetn0se]

@Steeldancer - Really like your scripting. Well done!

@LooneySpectre - I have always liked the idea of Shepard being able to help Thane extend/cure his life, if meeting the correct criteria EVEN as a loyal friendShep to him. I know my Brother-In-Arms Shepards would very much like their Drell pal alive, if possible. And it goes without saying that all 5 of my Fem!Sheps would like to have him make it to the end of the game.

Even if curing him seems over the top (which thematically I would probably argue that it is NOT over the top. After all, he is dying from the number one killer of the Drell race, of those that made it off of their apocolyptic homeworld. And what does Shepard do best? Try and resolve that which plagues the different galactic races!! Go Shep!! <grin>), a life extention, where we can SPECULATE (tehe) what would happen to him after the Reaper war is left to player imagination. Will do just nicely!

[Moira-chan]

LoonySpectre wrote...

I would so much like to have Kolyat have more involvement in the mission. Like, it might be Kolyat who actually puts the gun to Kai Leng's head, but he's no assassin so Kai Leng quickly disables him in some way, and only then a VERY PISSED OFF Thane (who snuck out of the hospital when he learned that Kolyat decided to play hero) joins the fray.

i wished there would be more kolyat too...
but kai leng was so easy at cronus, i was really suprised that this guy could defeat thane (while thane was making a stupid beginners fault. for real? jumping into a sword? i know his fighting style is more like close combat based, but c'mon thane)
but a thane that roll up ones sleeves, that i want to see

[LoonySpectre]

Actually, I think there was some sense in Thane coming all close and personal on Kai Leng - he didn't give KL any opportunity to shoot the Councilor (even though Shepard/squaddies could have interposed) and forced him to defend with his sword.