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[Moira-chan]

Yokokorama wrote...

This post isn't really from a romance perspective, but it kind of overlaps with it in terms of character DLC.  I hope you don't see this as off topic, because I feel it really goes hand-in-hand with the idea you have here.  

I. Introduction

Mass Effect 2 - probably the most popular game of the trilogy.  It introduced an awesome new combat system, better graphics, expanded on the game's lore, showed us new races, home-worlds, and more.  But what did it actually accomplish in terms of the main plot? You know, the one that involves the Reapers taking over the universe and all? 

II. Mass Effect 2's Plot Relevance [or lack thereof]

If you haven't figured it out already, it accomplished little to nothing in terms of the main [Reaper] plot.   What I'm basically saying is that someone can play  Mass Effect 1  and then go straight to  Mass Effect 3  (without playing the second game) and have no problem keeping up with what is going on.  How, you ask? Lets review the main details.

• The entire Collector sub-plot had no real effect on the story.  So now we know the Protheans were turned into Husks - thats great, but apart from a fun fact, doesn't really contribute much.  

• Cerberus involvement wasn't that important either.  They revived you and were your allies [sort of] in the second game, but if you skip  Mass Effect 2 , Shepard never died in the first place and Cerberus was your enemy in the first game, so them being your enemies in the third game is no surprise. 

• We learn that the Reapers harvest races to make more Reapers [human mush in the Collector base].  Thats great and all, but we're given that information again in the third game anyway, so skipping  Mass Effect 2  is no big deal.  The Human Reaper plot was chucked out the window too.

I think those were the main points that the second game brought forth, all of which are trivial, unnecessary, and abandoned in the third game.  If we could have skipped the entire game and go straight to  Mass Effect 3 , then surely something must be wrong.  
So at this point, we must ask ourselves, what was the point of  Mass Effect 2 ?

III. What's the Point of Mass Effect 2?

My answer? An excellent character development saga .  We had a massive roster of about a dozen unique squadmates, each of a different race and with with a different occupation.  We had interesting missions to find these squad-mates in the first place that told us a lot about their backstory and origin.  We then had follow-up missions, dubbed  "loyalty missions" which further gave us more information about them.  Each squad-mate basically got two extensive missions that built upon their character and past.

The problem? Most of these characters aren't even present in Mass Effect 3 .  Sure, Garrus, Tali, and Liara return with missions on their home planets.  Sure, Mordin gets probably the most epic mission in the entire series.  But what about Thane, Grunt, Jack, Miranda, Jacob, and Zaeed? Yeah, they had brief cameos, but do you honestly think a brief cameo is enough when we spent so much time learning about these characters? Why go through the trouble of giving these characters extensive missions in the second game when you completely neglect and toss them out in the third game?

In addition to this, you throw in characters like James Vega in Mass Effect 3 , which we know nothing about.  Do you really think its a good idea to introduce a brand new [and quite bland and generic] character in the final game of the trilogy, especially when you're tossing out characters that we spent so much time developing and learning about? I don't think its appropriate to introduce a new character so late into the saga, especially when he is taking the place of squad-mates that we spent so much time developing and learning about.

IV. Making Mass Effect 2 Relevant

Where am I going with this? As of right now, from a story standpoint,  Mass Effect 2  is completely irrelevant and might as well have been a spin-off game.  BioWare, for reasons I do not understand, tossed out the most important part of  Mass Effect 2  in  Mass Effect 3 - the character development.  You develop an entire roster of characters that we grew to love in the second game, and then basically give them the axe in the third, and most important, game.

So how can we make  Mass Effect 2  relevant to the series again? I think I've made it fairly obvious, especially considering the fact I'm posting in this thread - give the  Mass Effect 2  characters more focus in  Mass Effect 3  rather than practically abandoning them completely, which you did.  Not only does this improve the quality of your story, but it is also economically viable due to the high demand for such a thing.  

V. Possibilities & Suggestions

Many of the characters I mentioned earlier have tons of potential for a character-focused DLC and mini-arc.  Hell, many of the characters I mentioned also have potential to return as squad-mates once again.  Though there are already tons of suggestions in this thread, here are some of my personal suggestions for these characters:

• Grunt : The guy's team was slaughtered against indoctrinated Rachni.  Considering Shepard is his battle-master, and Grunt loves fighting, which Shepard does plenty of, there is no reason for him not to join you after that mission as a squad-mate.  To make it a worth-while DLC, you can give him some sort of mission too.  For example, maybe he can get a recon mission to obtain some of warlord Okeer's old data that will be helpful in the war, or maybe an old Krogan super-weapon that will help out.  There are tons of possibilities.[/u]

• Thane : While some may think he had an epic death, I found it pretty 'derp' - worthy.  He had about a dozen chances to kill Kai Leng, and intentionally missed out on all of them (aiming a gun at Kai Leng's head from behind and posing, or running straight into Kai Leng's sword when he had a gun and could have shot from a distance).  This is not to mention that Shepard and two other squad-mates literally stand there and stare as Thane fights.  The solution? Perhaps a mission to find a cure for Thane's illness.  It could be on a planet that is also relevant to  Mass Effect 3 's  plot [for example, we need to stop Cerberus on a certain planet and we find this along the way].  Then after doing the mission and getting cured, he can rejoin us as a squad-mate.  For those people who romanced him, they can continue their romance with him.  

• Miranda : Kind of similar to Grunt.  She has beef with Cerberus, and guess what - Shepard is fighting Cerberus for most of the game anyway.  So why not have her join you as a squad-mate again and have a Cerberus focused mission? Something like this can easily fit into the plot given how many Cerberus run-ins Shepard has.  Again, for people who romanced her, they can continue it here.

• Jack : She can get a Cerberus related mission where she has to save one of her students from a base.  Conveniently, that base also holds something Shepard needs, or perhaps Cerberus is holding down a pivotal location that the alliance needs.  Regardless, Shepard gets to accomplish something plot relevant while helping out a friend.  This can happen after the Grissom Academy mission, and after completing this DLC mission, she can join your team and continue a potential romance.
  
  

I'm not going to spell it out for every single character, but I think I've made my point clear - many of the  Mass Effect 2  characters that were abandonded in  Mass Effect 3  have potential to return as squad-mates and get a mission too.  You can give them a DLC like Shadow Broker, where you not only get a mission, but also get to continue any story-line you had with that specific character.

VI. Conclusion

Conclusively, there is no reason  not  to do this.  There is high demand for such a DLC thus making it economically viable, and the story potential is there as well.  As of now, most  Mass Effect 2  characters [and romances]  really  got the short end of the stick, which I think is kind of bad considering how the entire second game was focused on developing these characters.  As of now, I see  Mass Effect 2  as pointless to the trilogy considering one of the most pivotal aspects of it were abandoned.  Please realize this.

Anyway, sorry for the wall of text. I congratulate anyone who managed to read through all of this and I hope it was an entertaining read.  I also hope BioWare takes notice of this thread, and the potential such an idea can have. 

 
[*]great stuff really

[Sil]

Something that this DLC should do, is also improve relationships with your friends as well as the romance scenes. Bioware would be getting the voice actors in anyway, so they might as well get them to record separate lines that would run when you have conversations with the characters as friends. I'm all for more romance for neglected characters, but it's also a lot of fun to be able to chat to them too, much like my Male Shepard goes and has chats with Garrus.

[Forsythia]

The Liara bug not acknowledging the events of LotSB annoy me greatly. "It's been years.." What?

And Tali's face should be properly modeled.

[Moira-chan]

Sil wrote...

Something that this DLC should do, is also improve relationships with your friends as well as the romance scenes. Bioware would be getting the voice actors in anyway, so they might as well get them to record separate lines that would run when you have conversations with the characters as friends. I'm all for more romance for neglected characters, but it's also a lot of fun to be able to chat to them too, much like my Male Shepard goes and has chats with Garrus.

i can understand... it was fun listening to those and more chats are always better ^-^ make dragon age and mass effect so cool xD

[giftfish]

Darman wrote...

EDIT: To all you that wish a new LI in DLC. This will not happen. To implement a new character is hard enough. To add a new LI with all the dialouges and scenes would be nearly impossible by DLC. You'd have to change the whole game. This will not happen.

I agree, it's not at all likely.  It is a very common request, though, which is why I am putting them on the first post, anyway.

[giftfish]

Flog61 wrote...

vixvicco wrote...

blacqout wrote...

Some of you should put a little more effort into pursuing romance outside of the Mass Effect videogame.

Exactly.

Oh, get off your high horse. I have a boyfriend in the 'real world' but I still like to play games to escape from time to time. There's nothing wrong with caring about personalities, be them fictional or not.

It sounds like you would prefer the game to have no dialogue since you should be conversing in the real world, no story because only real world story mattters, and just have combat.

That would be a TERRIBLE game.

Please ignore the trolls.  No flame wars, here.

[Yokokorama]

Sorry for re-posting this.  Just wanted to say I fixed the formatting (spaced it out better and fixed the bullet points) so hopefully its more readable now.  Thanks to anyone who reads it.

Yokokorama wrote...

This post isn't really from a romance perspective, but it kind of overlaps with it in terms of character DLC.  I hope you don't see this as off topic, because I feel it really goes hand-in-hand with the idea you have here.  

I. Introduction

Mass Effect 2 - probably the most popular game of the trilogy.  It introduced an awesome new combat system, better graphics, expanded on the game's lore, showed us new races, home-worlds, and more.  But what did it actually accomplish in terms of the main plot? You know, the one that involves the Reapers taking over the universe and all? 

II. Mass Effect 2's Plot Relevance [or lack thereof]

If you haven't figured it out already, it accomplished little to nothing in terms of the main [Reaper] plot.   What I'm basically saying is that someone can play  Mass Effect 1  and then go straight to  Mass Effect 3  (without playing the second game) and have no problem keeping up with what is going on.  How, you ask? Lets review the main details.

• The entire Collector sub-plot had no real effect on the story.  So now we know the Protheans were turned into Husks - thats great, but apart from a fun fact, doesn't really contribute much.  
  
• Cerberus involvement wasn't that important either.  They revived you and were your allies [sort of] in the second game, but if you skip  Mass Effect 2 , Shepard never died in the first place and Cerberus was your enemy in the first game, so them being your enemies in the third game is no surprise. 
  
  We learn that the Reapers harvest races to make more Reapers [human mush in the Collector base].  Thats great and all, but we're given that information again in the third game anyway, so skipping  Mass Effect 2  is no big deal.  The Human Reaper plot was chucked out the window too.

I think those were the main points that the second game brought forth, all of which are trivial, unnecessary, and abandoned in the third game.  If we could have skipped the entire game and go straight to  Mass Effect 3 , then surely something must be wrong.  So at this point, we must ask ourselves, what was the point of  Mass Effect 2 ? 

III. What's the Point of Mass Effect 2?

My answer? An excellent character development saga .  We had a massive roster of about a dozen unique squadmates, each of a different race and with with a different occupation.  We had interesting missions to find these squad-mates in the first place that told us a lot about their backstory and origin.  We then had follow-up missions, dubbed  "loyalty missions" which further gave us more information about them.  Each squad-mate basically got two extensive missions that built upon their character and past.

The problem? Most of these characters aren't even present in Mass Effect 3 .  Sure, Garrus, Tali, and Liara return with missions on their home planets.  Sure, Mordin gets probably the most epic mission in the entire series.  But what about Thane, Grunt, Jack, Miranda, Jacob, and Zaeed? Yeah, they had brief cameos, but do you honestly think a brief cameo is enough when we spent so much time learning about these characters? Why go through the trouble of giving these characters extensive missions in the second game when you completely neglect and toss them out in the third game?

In addition to this, you throw in characters like James Vega in Mass Effect 3 , which we know nothing about.  Do you really think its a good idea to introduce a brand new [and quite bland and generic] character in the final game of the trilogy, especially when you're tossing out characters that we spent so much time developing and learning about? I don't think its appropriate to introduce a new character so late into the saga, especially when he is taking the place of squad-mates that we spent so much time developing and learning about.

IV. Making Mass Effect 2 Relevant

Where am I going with this? As of right now, from a story standpoint,  Mass Effect 2  is completely irrelevant and might as well have been a spin-off game.  BioWare, for reasons I do not understand, tossed out the most important part of  Mass Effect 2  in  Mass Effect 3 - the character development.  You develop an entire roster of characters that we grew to love in the second game, and then basically give them the axe in the third, and most important, game.

So how can we make  Mass Effect 2  relevant to the series again? I think I've made it fairly obvious, especially considering the fact I'm posting in this thread - give the  Mass Effect 2  characters more focus in  Mass Effect 3  rather than practically abandoning them completely, which you did.  Not only does this improve the quality of your story, but it is also economically viable due to the high demand for such a thing.  

V. Possibilities & Suggestions

Many of the characters I mentioned earlier have tons of potential for a character-focused DLC and mini-arc.  Hell, many of the characters I mentioned also have potential to return as squad-mates once again.  Though there are already tons of suggestions in this thread, here are some of my personal suggestions for these characters:

• Grunt : The guy's team was slaughtered against indoctrinated Rachni.  Considering Shepard is his battle-master, and Grunt loves fighting, which Shepard does plenty of, there is no reason for him not to join you after that mission as a squad-mate.  To make it a worth-while DLC, you can give him some sort of mission too.  For example, maybe he can get a recon mission to obtain some of warlord Okeer's old data that will be helpful in the war, or maybe an old Krogan super-weapon that will help out.  There are tons of possibilities.

• Thane : While some may think he had an epic death, I found it pretty 'derp' - worthy.  He had about a dozen chances to kill Kai Leng, and intentionally missed out on all of them (aiming a gun at Kai Leng's head from behind and posing, or running straight into Kai Leng's sword when he had a gun and could have shot from a distance).  This is not to mention that Shepard and two other squad-mates literally stand there and stare as Thane fights.  The solution? Perhaps a mission to find a cure for Thane's illness.  It could be on a planet that is also relevant to  Mass Effect 3 's  plot [for example, we need to stop Cerberus on a certain planet and we find this along the way].  Then after doing the mission and getting cured, he can rejoin us as a squad-mate.  For those people who romanced him, they can continue their romance with him.  

• Miranda : Kind of similar to Grunt.  She has beef with Cerberus, and guess what - Shepard is fighting Cerberus for most of the game anyway.  So why not have her join you as a squad-mate again and have a Cerberus focused mission? Something like this can easily fit into the plot given how many Cerberus run-ins Shepard has.  Again, for people who romanced her, they can continue it here.

• Jack : She can get a Cerberus related mission where she has to save one of her students from a base.  Conveniently, that base also holds something Shepard needs, or perhaps Cerberus is holding down a pivotal location that the alliance needs.  Regardless, Shepard gets to accomplish something plot relevant while helping out a friend.  This can happen after the Grissom Academy mission, and after completing this DLC mission, she can join your team and continue a potential romance.

VI. Conclusion

Conclusively, there is no reason  not  to do this.  There is high demand for such a DLC thus making it economically viable, and the story potential is there as well.  As of now, most  Mass Effect 2  characters [and romances]  really  got the short end of the stick, which I think is kind of bad considering how the entire second game was focused on developing these characters.  As of now, I see  Mass Effect 2  as pointless to the trilogy considering one of the most pivotal aspects of it were abandoned.  Please realize this.

Anyway, sorry for the wall of text. I congratulate anyone who managed to read through all of this and I hope it was an entertaining read.  I also hope BioWare takes notice of this thread, and the potential such an idea can have. 

[Pantegana]

I support Harbinger as a LI in ME3, make love not war.

[giftfish]

Ah yes, dear Harby.

@Yokokorama:

Very nice essay. You are right, it is peripherally related in part, and I don't want to get into alot of debate in this thread on the "whys". Much of the "why" is debated in the separate character threads, and I don't think it's necessary or warranted to re-hash it here. But, your section on suggestions is very good, and certainly relevant. Thanks for sharing it

[Yokokorama]

Moira-chan wrote...
great stuff really

Thanks for that, I hope you found it a good read.

[giftfish]

Also, initial post has been updated with most recent suggestions.

I swear, Kal'Reegar's VA has the best voice in game...next to Thane, of course.

[Yokokorama]

I didn't really mean to diverge into the 'why's.' The TL;DR version is basically this: characters that were so heavily developed in Mass Effect 2 don't deserve to be chucked out and neglected in Mass Effect 3.  Its basically a reason for why BioWare should make something like this.

Anyway, sorry about that, by no means did I want to derail the thread.

Modifié par Yokokorama, 01 juillet 2012 - 03:08 .

[giftfish]

@ Yoko:

Nope, it's all good.

I completely agree with everything that you posted. 110%. I haven't read any of the ME books, for example, so when I met Vega on the ship I was like...who the heck is this guy? Where is the rest of my freaking squad?!

Just have to make sure we stay on track, is all.

[wildannie]

great post Yokokorama I like your ideas and fully agree.

@coldi I love your suggestions

A DLC with the ME2 LIs could be so so awesome, I just hope that a decision maker at BW wakes up and realises this.

[Shaleist]

Pantegana wrote...

I support Harbinger as a LI in ME3, make love not war.

WE ARE HARBINGER! WE ARE YOUR ROMANTIC DESTINY!

[Terrorize69]

giftfish wrote...

Also, initial post has been updated with most recent suggestions.

I swear, Kal'Reegar's VA has the best voice in game...next to Thane, of course.

Deffo high up there, and sounds the part, sounds like a loyal marine/soldier.

[RaiderFaid]

Vote cast, lets see where the dice fall

[Steel Dancer]

Shaleist wrote...

Pantegana wrote...

I support Harbinger as a LI in ME3, make love not war.

WE ARE HARBINGER! WE ARE YOUR ROMANTIC DESTINY!

*restraining order*  This hurts you.

[Rasofe]

Half of the playerbase just got what they (and me) wanted through that last petition.

Do you really think it's a good time to do it again? It'll discourage Bioware from listening to the fanbase and we'll get the cold shoulder - again - except this time it'll be permanent.

[Pantegana]

Shaleist wrote...


WE ARE HARBINGER! WE ARE YOUR ROMANTIC DESTINY!

Steel Dancer wrote...

*restraining order*  This hurts you.

I lol'd

[blacqout]

Flog61 wrote...

vixvicco wrote...

blacqout wrote...

Some of you should put a little more effort into pursuing romance outside of the Mass Effect videogame.

Exactly.

Oh, get off your high horse. I have a boyfriend in the 'real world' but I still like to play games to escape from time to time. There's nothing wrong with caring about personalities, be them fictional or not.

It sounds like you would prefer the game to have no dialogue since you should be conversing in the real world, no story because only real world story mattters, and just have combat.

That would be a TERRIBLE game.

This is what we in the biz refer to as a "strawman", and not even a very good one. Why stop at cutting story and dialogue? If you're going to embark on a childish, hyperbolic rant, why not go the whole way? Cut combat too -- only real world combat matters.

Mass Effect 3 is not a dating sim. That's not to say that i don't enjoy the romances or find them to not add anything to the characters and story, but a 'romance DLC' sounds rather sad, and by choosing that title you demonstrate quite clearly what you want out of such an add-on.

A DLC that gives some of the characters that were rather neglected some interesting things to do would be welcomed... but this should happen for reasons other than some fans want to get their pixelated leg over. If an interesting DLC mission can be thought of, and the writers can find a way to involve the likes of Thane or Zaeed or Grunt, then that would be okay. Just writing them in because some people aren't feeling loved in real life would be a mistake, and a detriment to the Mass Effect series.

[Shaleist]

Rasofe wrote...

Half of the playerbase just got what they (and me) wanted through that last petition.

Do you really think it's a good time to do it again? It'll discourage Bioware from listening to the fanbase and we'll get the cold shoulder - again - except this time it'll be permanent.

Let em ignore their fans. At that point the permanent cold shoulder as you put it will be a mutual feeling.  The EC was what a lot wanted, but I for one don't view it as more than fixing their own lazy, rushed mess.

BTW... to clarify before anyone asks... Bioware deserves some massive respect for the EC and trying to listen to it's fans.

Modifié par Shaleist, 01 juillet 2012 - 05:02 .

[giftfish]

@ coldi -- BTW, I put in a link to your second set of ideas on the initial post, as well.

QUESTION ABOUT POLLS:

There have been multiple posts requesting a poll option so players can select "all" for what is essentially question #3. Changing that poll at this point would be a bad idea, and I apologize that I didnt' think to add that option initially.

However, I could add a 5th poll question that basically says "I think that the treatment of all LIs in ME3 could use improvement." Then yes/no.

Would people like to see this?

Modifié par giftfish, 01 juillet 2012 - 05:09 .

[coldwetn0se]

I really don't see this thread as a petition for BW to change anything, but moreso a forumite "think-tank" if you will. People coming up with ideas of what they would like to see add to DLC's. (And these would be DLC's that fans would pay for....not like the EC. At least that is how I, and I believe others, see it.) Some have expressed wanting specific romance DLC, and others have suggested romance content ADDED to Story/Gameplay DLC. I think all these suggestions are worthwhile, since it is free fodder for anyone to utilize if they so wish (be it fans writing FanFic or BW looking for content to add to DLC.....or just a way to express our feelings about the characters we have grown to know and love.)

This isn't a "demand" for BW to do anything. This gives them yet another resource to see what fans are interested in and why. BW will do what they will do, not because we sign a petition and demand something, but they might gain ideas and inspiration from what we offer. Or not, and we can just say we are entertaining ourselves.....which I happen to like doing too, so....YEA!

*EDIT*
I should note that I do realize that the word "petition" is in the topic title.  I just saw this thread becoming something a bit more when people started writing out their thoughts and ideas on specific characters and DLC stories, so I have begun to thought of this thread as something other than a petition.  Sorry if I have overstepped my bounds, @giftfish.

Modifié par coldwetn0se, 01 juillet 2012 - 05:15 .