2131 réponses à ce sujet

[IC-07]

Burneye Is God wrote...

the miranda and jack romances are disappointing as you get nothing from them when attacking t.i.m base i'd expect at least a photo or some cut scene jeez lol...

Jack's romance is a disaster, it sure has to be first in line to be modified.

[Zwall]

At least you can prevent both of their deaths, and neither cheats on you. I can understand that Jack has students to train, but I don't see why Miranda can't join up after Sanctuary. Is she looking after Oriana at the time?

Pretty much all ME2 romances are in need of improvement, imo.

[IC-07]

Zwall wrote...

Pretty much all ME2 romances are in need of improvement, imo.

A known fact.

[NatP]

IC-07 wrote...

Burneye Is God wrote...

the miranda and jack romances are disappointing as you get nothing from them when attacking t.i.m base i'd expect at least a photo or some cut scene jeez lol...

Jack's romance is a disaster, it sure has to be first in line to be modified.

Jack's romance is actually pretty damn good BUT it is unbelievebly short. If you combine all the interactions you get with her, it's literally like 4 minutes long.  It's absurd. However, in my honest opinion, I think those 4 minutes were great but they also made want more. So if they do make this dlc, I personally hope they add more to Jack's romance so it can become comparable to Liara's and Tali's.

[Twilight_Princess]

Vlk3 wrote...

dea_ex_machina wrote...

Off-topic, but... I don't think that Thane "should" or "shouldn't" do anything. Of course, it would have been nice to see him live, especially since he has grown to you a lot; on the other hand, I think he had a "good" kind of death, protecting the Salarian councilor and though sad (yes, it actually made me cry), it made sense. (Unlike, for one, Legion's death where I couldn't fully wrap my head around what exactly happened in that scene, which made it kind of moot - although it was in favor of a good dramatic moment.)
What I'd wish for Thane isn't really for Shep to find a cure for him because I don't think that was intended all along (besides, the game's done, so I rather doubt petitions for saving him will accomplish anything), but rather more screen time, dialog and overall more substance to the whole relationship up until his death, in case your FemShep romanced him. He certainly deserves that. 

To me his death wasn't so good (though his death scene for non romance is quite good, I think). No headcanon can explain why Shepard stood there like moron while Thane was fighting with Kai Leng. And what Thane has to do with salarian councilor? Especially while Kirrahe is alive in m playthrough, where was he? To me, his sacrifice and death wasn't meaningful it was forced and it looked more like suicide. Why wasn't I able to mention the lung transplant as an option at least? When I think about letting go and getting over Thane's death I can't explain why Shepard and Thane were'nt even trying. They both gave up, and this is out of character for Shepard.

And after 9 months I really don't want more screen time with Thane before his death. You know, I mourned enough, me and other Thane fans have been ignored for all this time and in some cases treated really bad not only by BioWare but also by other fans. Do I need a DLC where Thane will say to my Shepard  to move on, because he is useless and was going to die anyway? Hell no!  I've already seen that in game. I don't need romance scene and a date if it's going to end up with mandatory death anyway. There ARE viable treatments for Thane and it IS possible in Mass Effect Universe. Thane shouldn't die in my game and I will definitely not pay for seeing him die once again.  Treatment/cure or nothing at all.

Long rant inbound  

 

Honestly that coup scene felt like it belonged to Kirrahe and Thane was copy n pasted into it because the new writers wanted him dead asap and couldn't be bothered to give him a unique mission. Ignoring the flashiness of the fight for a moment, WHY was it good  or “fitting” that Thane died like that? When people played ME2 did most hope you would only get to talk to him once in ME3 and then he would jump on a sword?


Why was he even in that situation? Just cos? Kirrahe is actually there TO GUARD THE COUNCILLOR. When you  look at the Thane version alongside the Kirrahe version you realize Thane showing up and dying the way he did doesn't make sense by comparison. They also unintentionally created a plot hole with the Kirrahe version. I've still yet to hear a reason WHY kirrahe doesn't help him, he was cloaked and could have easily assisted. Why wasn't that a variable? It should have been. So far THAT scene and the ones that follow have been the ONLY thing the ME3 team has admitted they f**ked up on. They still won't say a peep about the endings being a mistake but Weekes admitted the writers "dropped the ball" with Thane. Shouldn't that mean something?


They went into this without doing their homework, without any intention of giving Thane a fleshed out side mission, without considering variables and choices even though this is a mass effect game.  


And that’s just the friend path , the romance is a friggin disaster. They say they "forgot" he was an LI . So they wrote most of the character without taking into account such an important detail?  No wonder (apart from that first conversation) shepard and Thane behave EXACTLY THE SAME if romanced or not. Also it his dialogue and behaviour really is immersion breaking since they didn't account for his character change that ONLY happens if you romance him. Thane does not want to die if you romance him. He becomes afraid of it









Also why didn't thane or shepard talk about treatment options mentioned in ME2? Well I know WHY , they forgot <_< But if the argument is that he was supposed to die without choice in ME3 then why did treatment and a future cure exist in ME2? If they wanted to make his condition completely untreatable then they could have but they didn't. Why the character change? Why the facebook support from bioware about a cure? Why did his original writer say he "left it open"and didn't know where Thane's arc would go? The truth is there was nothing set in stone for Thane until the new writer/s wrote him in 3.

I also find it funny that the mention of a cure or a treatment (that was mentioned prior to ME3) rustles so many jimmies for people yet they don’t blink at the fact Thane’s illness changed magically between games.  So it can’t be that they think a hypothetical cure is actually too magical or that they care about the science or something otherwise you would have thought they would have picked up on that LOL. Also no objections to the quarians adapting to rannoch in only 2 years , or the genophage cure that was supposed to take years to make

Modifié par Hyrule_Gal, 06 janvier 2013 - 08:28 .

[Caprea]

Vlk3 wrote...

dea_ex_machina wrote...

Vlk3 wrote...

I guess I was right about you. No need to waste anymore time if you can't read a text longer than one sentence. No surprise you have no idea about Thane and why he shouldn't die.

Off-topic, but... I don't think that Thane "should" or "shouldn't" do anything. Of course, it would have been nice to see him live, especially since he has grown to you a lot; on the other hand, I think he had a "good" kind of death, protecting the Salarian councilor and though sad (yes, it actually made me cry), it made sense. (Unlike, for one, Legion's death where I couldn't fully wrap my head around what exactly happened in that scene, which made it kind of moot - although it was in favor of a good dramatic moment.)
What I'd wish for Thane isn't really for Shep to find a cure for him because I don't think that was intended all along (besides, the game's done, so I rather doubt petitions for saving him will accomplish anything), but rather more screen time, dialog and overall more substance to the whole relationship up until his death, in case your FemShep romanced him. He certainly deserves that. 

To me his death wasn't so good (though his death scene for non romance is quite good, I think). No headcanon can explain why Shepard stood there like moron while Thane was fighting with Kai Leng. And what Thane has to do with salarian councilor? Especially while Kirrahe is alive in m playthrough, where was he? To me, his sacrifice and death wasn't meaningful it was forced and it looked more like suicide. Why wasn't I able to mention the lung transplant as an option at least? When I think about letting go and getting over Thane's death I can't explain why Shepard and Thane were'nt even trying. They both gave up, and this is out of character for Shepard.

And after 9 months I really don't want more screen time with Thane before his death. You know, I mourned enough, me and other Thane fans have been ignored for all this time and in some cases treated really bad not only by BioWare but also by other fans. Do I need a DLC where Thane will say to my Shepard  to move on, because he is useless and was going to die anyway? Hell no!  I've already seen that in game. I don't need romance scene and a date if it's going to end up with mandatory death anyway. There ARE viable treatments for Thane and it IS possible in Mass Effect Universe. Thane shouldn't die in my game and I will definitely not pay for seeing him die once again.  Treatment/cure or nothing at all.

Meh, I didn't romance Thane and didn't care enough to watch his romance on YT, so I reserve judgement until I actually do so.
If his death while in a relationship with him wasn't all that distinct from the one without romancing him, then that's indeed sad (though like I said, most of the ME2 romances got the short end of the stick, anyway) - doesn't mean his death didn't make any sense, though. I don't really get why some people think he "has" to live just because FemShep is in a relationship with him and he's had a bad life; that's no justification for making such a big change in the plot. He was meant to die from the start, it's part of the plot and and Shepard doesn't have any influence on that - no romance in the world is going to change that.
Wait, what? What does Kirrahe have to do with all this? Kirrahe was busy on Sur'Kesh, he wasn't even on the Citadel... what the heck. Thane had nothing to do with the councilor at all, he just happened to be there when the coup started and helped Shepard get a foothold on the Citadel while protecting the councilor because he knew he was in danger. And since he had the feeling he wouldn't be of much use in combat, he did what he could to protect him and help Shep. What's not to understand about that? I actually think it was damn brave of him to step in stop Leng from killing the councilor despite his condition. He happened to be there and did what he could to stop Leng. He actually put up a decent fight until Leng stabbed him. If that isn't heroic, I don't know what is. But to each their own, of course, if you see it differently, that's fine. There's just a difference between a character's death de facto not making sense and people being butthurt about it because their romance option or favourite character dies or doesn't get the ending he/ she deserves. They tend to make up reasons for it despite the resolution being logical and making sense.
You couldn't mention the lung transplant because you weren't supposed to. That very plotline wasn't about Thane, it was about the Cerberus coup and as a result, Thane was, like I said, meant to die in the process. It's quite simple, really.
To be honest, I can't judge how Thane fans have been treated by BoWare and others, but being heartbroken about his death doesn't justify additional content where he lives because he was supposed to die during the story as part of the plot and one more reason for Shep to keep on fighting (just like Mordin and Legion - evidence for that is no matter how you play the missions with them, they always end up dead). As much as it is the player's story, there also has to be a plot to follow and Thane dying is part of that. Besides, as harsh as that may sound, I think BioWare really has more pressing, important and extensive matters to attend to regarding DLC. A dead Thane and his fans being heartbroken about it is probably rather at the bottom on their list of concerns.

[Adomas]

dea_ex_machina wrote...

Wait, what? What does Kirrahe have to do with all this? Kirrahe was busy on Sur'Kesh, he wasn't even on the Citadel... what the heck.

If you never talked to Thane in the hospital, he does not appear in this mission at all. In my first playthrough I was rushing to find my favorite quarian, just to find out later that some missions have a timeout.

dea_ex_machina wrote...
was supposed to die during the story as part of the plot and one more reason for Shep to keep on fighting (just like Mordin

There is a way to keep Mordin alive, but You really have to not like the Krogan. If Wrex is alive, most players do not even consider that, but the most important part here - they gave you a choice, for that Bioware got a "mental medal" - they gave a choice. The result is screwed up though - Mordin stays in guilt, the Krogan have no cure, and the only satisfied party is the Dalatrass.

Though I believe that a (very) proper Thane goobye and some lines could have changed a lot without rewriting the story. I did not romance Thane so I can't give an emotional opinion, but I did check YT and I did care for him as a friend. In ME3 Thane's part was wrapped so quick and short, that I did not have the time to get to rekindle the friendship in my head.

Modifié par Adomas, 06 janvier 2013 - 08:02 .

[giftfish]

As much as I  like to see active dialogue between players in this thread, please keep things constructive.  This is not the appropriate thread to debate how characters should or shouldn't have been treated in ME3 -- that should be left to the Character and Romance Forums...which unfortunately are closed.



This thread is here for players to put their ideas for romance-related content in a DLC.  All ideas are welcome.  Nobody's opinion is right, and nobody's are wrong, they are opinions.

That said, I am going to chime here for just a moment, which is something I normally don't do, but there seems to be some misinformation and misconceptions floating around.

@dea_ex_machina -- To clarify a few things for you...

1. You are missing Hyrule Gal's point about Kirrahe.  Kirrahe is the one who shows up to save the salarian councilor on the Citadel if Thane is not present in the game (i.e., a non-import, or an ME1 import where Kirrahe and his team has died).  Having the councilor saved by a member of his own race obviously makes a great deal of sense -- especially with Kirrahe as a member of the STG.

2. Thane fans who expected Thane to live, thought so because of unique events related to his romance that took place in ME2.  If you did not romance him, you did not experience those unique events in game. For many players it is not a matter of "he should live because he was an LI", though there are certainly people with this opinion.

3. Your "combat" reasoning regarding Thane is flawed. If Thane wasn't in the condition to fight, which you state, it would have made much more sense to have him shoot Leng from a distance, rather than engage him in hand to hand combat.  Many people who favor Thane's death have commented how ridiculous they found this aspect of the story.

4. Mordin can be saved.  Only Legion and Thane have mandatory deaths...as far as squadmates go. 

5. Thane fans are not minor in number.  He was romanced by 48% of the female demographic in our survey.  That is a greater percentage than male players from our survey who romanced Miranda. Even Liara was romanced by fewer female players than romanced Thane.

Nobody wants their LI to die in game.  No matter who it is, no matter if they are sick or not sick.  Many people like happy endings, it's why so many players want a reunion, and in part why so many players disliked the vanilla endings.

Fans -- both who romanced Thane and who did not -- are upset about Thane's treatment in ME3 for a variety of reasons.  Just because you disagree with them doesn't make them wrong and you right.  Your game makes sense to you, because of how you played it.   Their game doesn't make sense to them, and they'd like it to.

Modifié par giftfish, 06 janvier 2013 - 08:25 .

[Vlk3]

Edit:

Nevermind, I don't want to derail the thread any further and the post above explains everything.

Modifié par Vlk3, 06 janvier 2013 - 08:22 .

[giftfish]

Also, Miranda and Jack got totally shafted.

Oh, and I just put up Part 2 of Thane's Focus Friday series on the blog.

Part 3, the final portion, will be posted on Tuesday....that is if my brain doesn't ooze out of my ears first. As much as I like his character I am currently sick to death of interpreting his survey results, lol....

@Thanks, Vlk -- much appreciated :]

Modifié par giftfish, 06 janvier 2013 - 08:24 .

[Twilight_Princess]

We'll be good gift :innocent: and I will go look at the survey results now. Also I don't blame you for feeling like your brain is coming out of your ears but we all appreciate the hard work you've put into this.

[Adomas]

@giftfish - Sorry, just realized what thread we are on. Seeing as keeping such a thread constructively active is critical if we aim to be noticed and our goals to have a chance to dent upcoming DLC. I think it would be good if you could add some direction now.

I suggest everyone write a short story (fanfic) limited to 10-20 lines on what would be the most desired romance related scene in an upcoming DLC. Lets just keep it tasteful Preferably not a copy-paste of an existing fanfiction.

Modifié par Adomas, 06 janvier 2013 - 08:56 .

[Caprea]

This is longer than I expected... Sorry for the rant.

giftfish wrote...

1. You are missing Hyrule Gal's point about Kirrahe.  Kirrahe is the one who shows up to save the salarian councilor on the Citadel if Thane is not present in the game (i.e., a non-import, or an ME1 import where Kirrahe and his team has died).  Having the councilor saved by a member of his own race obviously makes a great deal of sense -- especially with Kirrahe as a member of the STG.

Oh, that's something I didn't know! I was referring to Kirrahe saving the councilor not making any sense because I assumed he wasn't on the Citadel in the first place, like I said. I haven't done enough playthroughs to know in how many ways that scene can turn out and I obviously did talk to Thane a lot, otherwise I wouldn't have been so clueless about it. But as it stands, Kirrahe saving the councilor just seems to have been the alternative, in case Thane wasn't present. Don't know how that alternative played out for Thane, though.

giftfish wrote...
2. Thane fans who expected Thane to live, thought so because of unique events related to his romance that took place in ME2.  If you did not romance him, you did not experience those unique events in game. For many players it is not a matter of "he should live because he was an LI", though there are certainly people with this opinion.

I did romance him back in ME2 but didn't continue with that FemShep; they had a few additional talks as I recall (I think he even had a goodbye letter for Shep ready to go in the Shadow Broker base if you romanced him), but nothing in particular that is enough of a justification for me to keep Thane alive just because fans want it. He wanted to keep on living for Kolyat and Shep, hell, he even wanted to go travel with her - but do those plans and promises mean that he has to stay alive? No. Don't get me wrong, I like Thane myself and my Shep cared a great deal about him, but from I've gathered so far, the wish for him to keep living is based on emotional attachment and disappoinment about the end he met, rather than a lack of sense in his rescue attempt and the way he died. He was sidelined and meant to die no matter how things play out. It sucks so far because it doesn't make any sense why Shep and he behave exactly the same no matter if you romanced him or not and that he didn't get any more substance despite being a LI, just like pretty much the rest of the ME2 squad. I can understand the restrictions from an economical and dramaturgic point of view, though. And maybe it will be fixed, who knows. Personally, I wouldn't count on it, but we'll see.

giftfish wrote...
3. Your "combat" reasoning regarding Thane is flawed. If Thane wasn't in the condition to fight, which you state, it would have made much more sense to have him shoot Leng from a distance, rather than engage him in hand to hand combat.  Many people who favor Thane's death have commented how ridiculous they found this aspect of the story.

Why? Of course he wasn't in the condition to fight, he stated that himself when you met him the first time on the Citadel. Does that mean he has to shoot Leng from a distance only to keep himself uninjured? No. He tried to put up a decent fight against Leng, but sooner or later, Leng would have enganged and stabbed him if he hadn't done so. His health was weak and he knew it, but he fought against Leng, anyway.

giftfish wrote...
5. Thane fans are not minor in number.  He was romanced by 48% of the female demographic in our survey.  That is a greater percentage than male players from our survey who romanced Miranda. Even Liara was romanced by fewer female players than romanced Thane.

Just wondering how representative that survey is. You can't expect everyone who romanced someone in the game to have participated in it. But that's another debate altogether.
Besides, you missed my actual point, but maybe what I said was a bit ambiguous. What I meant was that BioWare probably has other plans regarding DLC altogether, not regarding single romances. There are certainly more people who would like another story-related DLC than people who want a romance DLC because they think their LI got the short end of the stick. Maybe people who romanced Thane are not in the minority when it comes to romances, but they're not the only ones who got wishes regarding DLC altogether. I don't know whether there are fan pulls for DLC as strong as this one (okay, aside from the one that demands a new/ better ending), but there are, in my opinion, more important things about the game that need attention and as much as I'd love a happier conclusion for Thane myself, I doubt that our pleas will be heard. It doesn't seem to be a priority and I can understand why. Even if some people keep shouting, doesn't mean BioWare will listen. Back in ME2, there was a strong pull for Ashley/ Kaidan DLC as well, but it never happened.

giftfish wrote...
Fans -- both who romanced Thane and who did not -- are upset about Thane's treatment in ME3 for a variety of reasons.  Just because you disagree with them doesn't make them wrong and you right.  Your game makes sense to you, because of how you played it.   Their game doesn't make sense to them, and they'd like it to.

Maybe expressed myself mistakable here; I'm not saying others are wrong and I'm right just because they played the game differently. I'm about as upset about the way Thane (and other characters introduced in ME2) and his respective story got the short end of the stick, but I'm also aware of the fact that the developers were restricted in many regards, such as time and trying to avoid all the side characters and their respective missions and stories getting out of hand. Thane and the other ME2 characters weren't part of the crew and it's only natural they didn't get as much attention as your crew members; they were pretty much sidelined and it sucks, especially for those who romanced them, but I can understand why that happened. They just weren't the priority anymore (like in ME2), but rather supporting characters who had their important role in their mission, but not much beside that. Like I said, from an emotional point of view, it sucks, but from a dramaturgic and economical point of view, it's understandable in my book. BioWare couldn't have given everyone the time and development they deserved. Things would have gotten out of hand otherwise. I hope I expressed myself a bit better this time.

Modifié par dea_ex_machina, 06 janvier 2013 - 09:20 .

[IC-07]

Let's soften the thread a bit.
Jack really needs a sex scene, being a full romance option. At least the "screen fades away" one. Although the dance scene is nice, but some sugar is important.

Modifié par IC-07, 06 janvier 2013 - 09:29 .

[Zwall]

giftfish wrote...
... This is not about demanding [more] sex scenes, but rather bringing ME3  romances up to the quality they were in ME1&2.  More story-driven content with LIs, proper side missions, better quality dialogue, cuddle-time, etc.
[*]

Modifié par Zwall, 06 janvier 2013 - 09:39 .

[IC-07]

Zwall wrote...

giftfish wrote...
... This is not about demanding [more] sex scenes, but rather bringing ME3  romances up to the quality they were in ME1&2.  More story-driven content with LIs, proper side missions, better quality dialogue, cuddle-time, etc.
[*]

But Jack deserves, that's for sure. Deserved it being included while the game was still in development <_<

Modifié par IC-07, 06 janvier 2013 - 09:49 .

[brummyuk19]

/signed.

[giftfish]

Thanks for getting back on track folks!

@brummy -- Thanks for signing :]

@IC-07 -- Hyrule Gal is pointing out that the majority of folks here aren't in support of "graphic" love scenes. HOWEVER, one thing that folks around here do consistently support is the concept of all LIs being on equal footing with the romance scenes. All should be of Liara/VS quality in my book. The survey comments about that topic are an interesting read.

Also, Coldi's Monday Musing is out on the blog!

And, we are still running short on Character Spotlights. Hopefully, now that we are past the holidays some of you lovely people will send us some essays on your favorite LI in Mass Effect!

[IC-07]

@giftfish - I understand that.

[Renmiri1]

 ooooo great news ?

http://gamingillustr...s-effect-3-dlc/


Here is what is currently known about the DLC. Eight writers are penning the script, and the score will be written by Sam Hulick, who previously worked on the game trilogy. He tweeted on Twitter that the score could cause gamers to cry. Also, other tweets to and from the series’ voice actors have hinted that some Normandy crew members should appear with new dialogue lines. 

Modifié par Renmiri1, 08 janvier 2013 - 02:38 .

[The Geth Spectre]

As the first geth spectre I demand more LI dlc and everything else discussed in this thread. Thank you.

[draconian139]

/signed

[Saito404]

dea_ex_machina wrote...
Back in ME2, there was a strong pull for Ashley/ Kaidan DLC as well, but it never happened.

And if you read that terrible fanfiction-like old script, you know what writers were planning for them. Writers still thinks that Ash and Kaidan are least popular characters and everyone hate them. We should thank a vocal kids (90% of BSN) for that.

[BENIIICHAT]

Saito404 wrote...

dea_ex_machina wrote...
Back in ME2, there was a strong pull for Ashley/ Kaidan DLC as well, but it never happened.

And if you read that terrible fanfiction-like old script, you know what writers were planning for them. Writers still thinks that Ash and Kaidan are least popular characters and everyone hate them. We should thank a vocal kids (90% of BSN) for that.

Oh!! I don't know about this before. Please tell me more what plan for My Kaidan & Ashley.

[10K]

I feel that it was ridiculous that some of the ME2 squad mates weren't available for the ME3 squad. They could have replace Vega and Edi for any of the ME2 squad, because the majority of them aren't doing anything so important that it keeps them from serving on the Normandy. Zaeed wasn't doing anything important, he could have replaced Vega. Or what about Jacob he really had nothing he needed to do that was important.