325 réponses à ce sujet

[Luxure]

Bill Casey wrote...

terdferguson123 wrote...

And everyone dies. What does that accomplish? At least if they survive, albeit changed, there is still some hope.

Samara: If you change who someone is, how they think, you have killed them. They will be something new in the same body.

Thane: There’s no moral difference between the two. If you change who they are, you’ve “killed” them. Killed their perspective.

Jacob Taylor: Changing their personality is the same as killing them. Who they are is gone.

Grunt: Kill them or pull their teeth, what’s the difference? They’re killed both ways. Take away their fighting spirit, what else matters?

Garrus: That sounds dangerously close to indoctrination unless there’s something I’m missing. Maybe this is how AIs settle religious disputes.

Where did you get these, Bill ? I don't recall hearing them. Can you please tell me ?

[Yalision]

Meh. I'd go for space magic utopia.

Modifié par Yalision, 01 juillet 2012 - 07:01 .

[Bill Casey]

Because everyone is fine with the Reapers...
The War just stops, and people stand there next to husks...

Luxure wrote...

Bill Casey wrote...

terdferguson123 wrote...

And everyone dies. What does that accomplish? At least if they survive, albeit changed, there is still some hope.

Samara: If you change who someone is, how they think, you have killed them. They will be something new in the same body.

Thane: There’s no moral difference between the two. If you change who they are, you’ve “killed” them. Killed their perspective.

Jacob Taylor: Changing their personality is the same as killing them. Who they are is gone.

Grunt: Kill them or pull their teeth, what’s the difference? They’re killed both ways. Take away their fighting spirit, what else matters?

Garrus: That sounds dangerously close to indoctrination unless there’s something I’m missing. Maybe this is how AIs settle religious disputes.

Where did you get these, Bill ? I don't recall hearing them. Can you please tell me ?

Legion: A House Divided

Modifié par Bill Casey, 01 juillet 2012 - 07:04 .

[Wesker1984]

I will chose Synthesis over Destruction. I prefer to sacrifice myself to give a chance of survival for every species of our galaxy (reapers included) than causing the extinction of entire civilasations.

Modifié par Wesker1984, 01 juillet 2012 - 07:02 .

[darkchief10]

terdferguson123 wrote...

darkchief10 wrote...

terdferguson123 wrote...

darkchief10 wrote...

hmmm, on the one hand i could play god and **** with the state of the universe and turn everyone into a horrific abomination or I could tell harbinger to go **** himself... I pick option b

And everyone dies. What does that accomplish? At least if they survive, albeit changed, there is still some hope.

freedom for the next cycle as they will be much better informed on taking down the reapers, i am choosing the right to self determinate, even if it leads to our species death, synthesis removes that from the equation, synthetic and organic life are both valid forms of life, they have a right to make their own future, and besides, we won't lay down and die, we will take many reapers with us, thus weakening their forces to the next cycle expecting and preparing for their arrival.

You act as if the Reapers wouldn't do the same after seeing organics capabilities. There is a reason refusal results in our destruction, and that is to say that the Reapers will not be defeated by conventional means, no matter how informed they are. The Liara warning is no different than the Prothean warning, becuase that future generation is going to have completely different forms of communication, just like the Protheans and humans which made the beacon so difficult to understand. Nothing would change from doing it this way, the game has showed us that every generation has done the same thing. Tried to fight them conventionally, then pass off what they learned to the next generation and it always fails. What makes you believe the next will be any different. You really dont think that the Protheans didn't take a bunch of Reapers down with them? Or that they didn't do enough to prepare the next generation. I'd say they did more by what info the game gives us.

The bottom line is, you are being unrealistic by saying the next generation will be better prepared and the Reapers weakened, because you are ignoring the fact that this is the same scenario as what we recieved, and we still failed. If you refuse, you are putting the next generation in no better spot than what we were in coming into the Reaper war.

I believe we are going to have to agree to disagree as clearly neither of us will budge on our position
but i will concede that the odds of people receiving this information in time for it to mean anything is remote, yet if the yagh and raloi lead the next cycle they still communicate in the same way as we do, so there is a small chance, however low as it might be

[Luxure]

You haven't watch the video have you ? Here's the link, maybe you've missed it -

Modifié par Luxure, 01 juillet 2012 - 07:11 .

[terdferguson123]

Luxure wrote...

You haven't watch the video have you ? Here's the link, maybe you've missed it -

I have seen this video several times and have played the game also (great game btw). Just like Mass Effect, this game allows you to choose an ending that allows the continuation of synthetic hybrid organics. I don't see how this proves your opinion, afterall this video specifically was made as an ad for the "purity first' movement if you recall from the game, which was against augmentations. As such, it was MEANT to be biased in their favor. Deus Ex as well as Mass Effect both go to great lengths to show the player that synthesis isn't some kind of abomination if you have an open mind.

Also, the difference between synthesis in Mass Effect and in Deus Ex is that in Mass Effect, everyone becomes partly synthetic, thus removing that drive to use synthesis as a means to "be the best" at whatever you do, which is so highly talked up in the Deus Ex video. That wouldn't exist, and because in ME everyone is partly synthetic, most of the problems that we see here (split opinions on the morals of it, etc.) would not exist. Strangely enough, you post this video in defense of the argument that synthesis is wrong, but this video specifically shows those that are non synthetic being the ones causing the violence and hate against those who are augmented.

Modifié par terdferguson123, 01 juillet 2012 - 07:32 .

[Luxure]

Now I'm throwing the "You don't understand it" ball to you. They aren't causing violence and hate against those who are augmented. They're fighting against those who produce the augmentations, because they can control your every move, they can control your thoughts, they CAN CONTROL YOU. And you become addicted to some sort of drug that makes these augmentations work. If you don't take the drug, your augmentations don't work. Same goes for Synthesis in Mass Effect, just that they don't go much into explaining the process. It can't all be that easy. Basically humans become half machine and machines become half human. So, augmentation. Oh and Reapers are still alive, with the StarBrat still there. Did I forgot to mention that the Reapers are still there ?

Modifié par Luxure, 01 juillet 2012 - 07:39 .

[v TricKy v]

Bill Casey wrote...

Because everyone is fine with the Reapers...
The War just stops, and people stand there next to husks...

That is the funniest thing about it.
"Hey that Reaper over there just killed my friends and family but who cares. I have upgrades.
Oh look. Hello Mrs. Banshee and Mr. Cannibal. How are you today?"

[Wesker1984]

Luxure wrote...

Now I'm throwing the "You don't understand it" ball to you. They aren't causing violence and hate against those who are augmented. They're fighting against those who produce the augmentations, because they can control your every move, they can control your thoughts, they CAN CONTROL YOU. And you become addicted to some sort of drug that makes these augmentations work. If you don't take the drug, your augmentations don't work. Same goes for Synthesis in Mass Effect, just that they don't go much into explaining the process. It can't all be that easy. Basically humans become half machine and machines become half human. So, augmentation. Oh and Reapers are still alive, with the StarBrat still there. Did I forgot to mention that the Reapers are still there ?

They become half organics not half humans and since the synthesis transformed every beings into hybrids machines the Catalyst will be changed the same way as the other synthetics, he will understand fully the organics. 

Modifié par Wesker1984, 01 juillet 2012 - 07:51 .

[Loopeeeeeee]

"So be it" was an f.u. to those that laughed at the original choices. The refusal ending is the best ending cause at the highest galactic readiness you'd had destroy the reapers. oh wait......

[Luxure]

Wesker1984 wrote...

Luxure wrote...

They become half organics not half humans and since the synthesis transformed every beings into hybrids machines the Catalyst will be changed the same way as the other synthetics, he will understand fully the organics. 

Did I really forgot to mention the Reapers and the StarBrat are still there ?
They become half organics ? What ? So, if they'll become half organics, if they cut themselves with a knife or w/e they'll start bleeding right ? They'll be able to sneeze, breathe, feel the warmth of others people body ( wait a minute, they won't be able to, because everyone will be a robot ), love, care, feel affection ? I think I can keep this all day long. But they won't, they'll still be machines. Don't give me Legion and EDI as examples. They weren't implanted with "humanish thoughts" and suddenly became "humanish". They went through a process of learning on what does it mean to be a human, a bag of meat, a fleshbag, a whatever. And even them, the AIs, wanted to see what it's like to be human. So no, don't get me how the Reapers and the StarBrat will "understand" the organics. That's terrible.

P.S. Watch the above video.

Modifié par Luxure, 01 juillet 2012 - 08:08 .

[terdferguson123]

Luxure wrote...

Now I'm throwing the "You don't understand it" ball to you. They aren't causing violence and hate against those who are augmented. They're fighting against those who produce the augmentations, because they can control your every move, they can control your thoughts, they CAN CONTROL YOU. And you become addicted to some sort of drug that makes these augmentations work. If you don't take the drug, your augmentations don't work. Same goes for Synthesis in Mass Effect, just that they don't go much into explaining the process. It can't all be that easy. Basically humans become half machine and machines become half human. So, augmentation. Oh and Reapers are still alive, with the StarBrat still there. Did I forgot to mention that the Reapers are still there ?

Read what I said about how the Mass Effect and Deus Ex situation are not the same. You cannot use the same argument because in Mass Effect every synthetic and organic, Reapers/Catalyst included has an understanding of each other. The point still stands that it makes no sense to just roll over and die when you have another option even if you don't fully agree with what may come from it, dying accomplishes absolutely nothing.

Modifié par terdferguson123, 01 juillet 2012 - 04:19 .

[Lazengan]

Refuse

Synthesis halts all organic evolution and renders the continued existence of Life Futile

Modifié par Lazengan, 01 juillet 2012 - 04:20 .

[Lazengan]

v TricKy v wrote...

Bill Casey wrote...

Because everyone is fine with the Reapers...
The War just stops, and people stand there next to husks...

That is the funniest thing about it.
"Hey that Reaper over there just killed my friends and family but who cares. I have upgrades.
Oh look. Hello Mrs. Banshee and Mr. Cannibal. How are you today?"

perhaps the husks retained some of their memories of their past lives

would suck to be a brute though, sharing minds and what not

[terdferguson123]

Luxure wrote...

Wesker1984 wrote...

Luxure wrote...

They become half organics not half humans and since the synthesis transformed every beings into hybrids machines the Catalyst will be changed the same way as the other synthetics, he will understand fully the organics. 

Did I really forgot to mention the Reapers and the StarBrat are still there ?
They become half organics ? What ? So, if they'll become half organics, if they cut themselves with a knife or w/e they'll start bleeding right ? They'll be able to sneeze, breathe, feel the warmth of others people body ( wait a minute, they won't be able to, because everyone will be a robot ), love, care, feel affection ? I think I can keep this all day long. But they won't, they'll still be machines. Don't give me Legion and EDI as examples. They weren't implanted with "humanish thoughts" and suddenly became "humanish". They went through a process of learning on what does it mean to be a human, a bag of meat, a fleshbag, a whatever. And even them, the AIs, wanted to see what it's like to be human. So no, don't get me how the Reapers and the StarBrat will "understand" the organics. That's terrible.

P.S. Watch the above video.

What are you talking about? What information does the game give us that after synthesis, those still alive would not be able to feel human thoughts? Did you miss the part of genuine affection between Joker and EDI? 

Again, STOP referencing that Deus Ex video, it has NOTHING to do with the situation in Mass Effect. They are completely, entirely unrelated because one causes split opinions (Deus Ex), the other does not (Mass Effect). Pay attention to the game more please.

Modifié par terdferguson123, 01 juillet 2012 - 04:24 .

[en2ym3]

Refuse.
The ending, to me, is still painfully offensive on several levels - Synthesis included. Refuse, while awful, felt the most true to ME of everything.

My -real- choice, though, is just never to do the ending again.

[terdferguson123]

en2ym3 wrote...

Refuse.
The ending, to me, is still painfully offensive on several levels - Synthesis included. Refuse, while awful, felt the most true to ME of everything.

My -real- choice, though, is just never to do the ending again.

If you dislike the ending so much, why are you still here posting?

[v TricKy v]

terdferguson123 wrote...

Luxure wrote...

Now I'm throwing the "You don't understand it" ball to you. They aren't causing violence and hate against those who are augmented. They're fighting against those who produce the augmentations, because they can control your every move, they can control your thoughts, they CAN CONTROL YOU. And you become addicted to some sort of drug that makes these augmentations work. If you don't take the drug, your augmentations don't work. Same goes for Synthesis in Mass Effect, just that they don't go much into explaining the process. It can't all be that easy. Basically humans become half machine and machines become half human. So, augmentation. Oh and Reapers are still alive, with the StarBrat still there. Did I forgot to mention that the Reapers are still there ?

Read what I said about how the Mass Effect and Deus Ex situation are not the same. You cannot use the same argument because in Mass Effect every synthetic and organic, Reapers/Catalyst included has an understanding of each other. The point still stands that it makes no sense to just roll over and die when you have another option even if you don't fully agree with what may come from it, dying accomplishes absolutely nothing.

So it boils down to the question
"Is living at all costs a good thing?"
I wouldnt want to live if I loose my eyesight or couldnt move for the rest of my life as an  example.
I seems your are on Sarens side on this because he asked "Isnt Submission preferable to extinction?"

[Soul8lighter]

Synthesis just creeps me the hell out and Refuse feels like a slap to the face for questioning their "artistic integrity".

[terdferguson123]

v TricKy v wrote...

terdferguson123 wrote...

Luxure wrote...

Now I'm throwing the "You don't understand it" ball to you. They aren't causing violence and hate against those who are augmented. They're fighting against those who produce the augmentations, because they can control your every move, they can control your thoughts, they CAN CONTROL YOU. And you become addicted to some sort of drug that makes these augmentations work. If you don't take the drug, your augmentations don't work. Same goes for Synthesis in Mass Effect, just that they don't go much into explaining the process. It can't all be that easy. Basically humans become half machine and machines become half human. So, augmentation. Oh and Reapers are still alive, with the StarBrat still there. Did I forgot to mention that the Reapers are still there ?

Read what I said about how the Mass Effect and Deus Ex situation are not the same. You cannot use the same argument because in Mass Effect every synthetic and organic, Reapers/Catalyst included has an understanding of each other. The point still stands that it makes no sense to just roll over and die when you have another option even if you don't fully agree with what may come from it, dying accomplishes absolutely nothing.

So it boils down to the question
"Is living at all costs a good thing?"
I wouldnt want to live if I loose my eyesight or couldnt move for the rest of my life as an  example.
I seems your are on Sarens side on this because he asked "Isnt Submission preferable to extinction?"

No, that is not the same. Watch the Synthesis ending EDI explains that past organics are able to live the lives they wish for. We have no reason to believe that the Reapers have any kind of control over us. Anytime you say that, it is pure speculation. I am saying that trying something new is preferrable to becoming extinct yes, however if Saren had succeeded we'd all have been melted and made into Reapers, which is completely different than what happens in Synthesis.

[Bfler]

terdferguson123 wrote...
What information does the game give us that after synthesis, those still alive would not be able to feel human thoughts?

Hm, a simple human thought would be disgust if you see f.e. an Husk. 
I can't see that in the ending sequence with the soldier after the green beam..

Modifié par Bfler, 01 juillet 2012 - 04:41 .

[BeastSaver]

Refuse always. I would not doom husks to live, knowing what they were and what they are now. From what I got from the Refuse ending is that the next cycle got an early enough warning they stopped the Reapers without the Crucible and Catalyst.

[HellbirdIV]

"If I do this, I will die... But I... Will die... FREE!"

[terdferguson123]

Bfler wrote...

terdferguson123 wrote...
What information does the game give us that after synthesis, those still alive would not be able to feel human thoughts?

Hm, a simple human thought would be disgust if you see f.e. an Husk. 
I can't see that in the ending sequence with the soldier after the green beam..

It's more confusion than disgust, would that not be a human thought?