325 réponses à ce sujet

[Jackums]

The Angry One wrote...

JackumsD wrote...

The Angry One wrote...

Javik is in my mind absolute proof of brainwashing.
There is no way he'd be happy with this. No way. Not after everything he says. Not with the memory of the Zha'til that he carries. He wouldn't just be standing around passively.

That's what a lot of your arguments are; in your mind, and nothing more.

I'm sorry, I had to.

Rather petty I'd say, but predictable. When you have something resembling an actual argument to debate me with, do let me know.

No need to get snippy. I put all of that effort in to add that striked out text to try and make my response seem more light-hearted and you get hostile anyway? Psh. But similarly, when your arguments aren't based on your own headcanon and speculation, do let me know. I'd very well like to argue something tangible.

You see, fanfic is not my forté.

Modifié par JackumsD, 30 juin 2012 - 02:39 .

[Tooneyman]

Refusal and I'm picking it every time!

[JeosDinas]

Synthesis. In my mind, it's not even a choice.

[Slakky]

The Angry One wrote...

Slakky wrote...

The Angry One wrote...

Javik is in my mind absolute proof of brainwashing.
There is no way he'd be happy with this. No way. Not after everything he says. Not with the memory of the Zha'til that he carries. He wouldn't just be standing around passively.

Really, what would he do?  Brood about it extra?  Not his bag either way; he's going to go eat a gun after this.

Be furious. Not attend the memorial for the person most likely responsible for this. Kill himself if everyone's lucky, go on a shooting spree on the Normandy if they're not. Well. Your mileage may vary if existence as a husk is considered lucky.

Though Javik still follows Shep even if Shep says that destroying the Reapers isn't the ultimate goal.  Even if Shep lies to him about having this opinion.

Could just be he's showing deference to the person who succeeded where his people failed, even if they didn't do things how he wanted. That would be pretty consistent with his previous actions.

[dreman9999]

Tooneyman wrote...

Refusal and I'm picking it every time!

"I heard you don't want to kill the geth, so I'm going to kill the geth and everyone you love for you." Refusal in a nut shell.

[Darc_Requiem]

Refuse.

Shepard isn't a Reaper and shouldn't be fine with biologically violating the entire galaxy. The Reapers are still around. There is no one controlling them. Some may want to help. Some may want to continue Reaping. Other may just go insane from the realization of what they are now and the countless lives they've taken.

Choosing Synthesis is just plain inconsiderate. What about the Brutes, Husks, Banshee's, Cannibals? Brutes and Cannibals are combinations of two beings. The horror for them would be even worse than the other husk variants.

The only way for Synthesis to be viable is for it to alter the thought patterns of every being in the galaxy as well. To make them like each other, which honestly would make it an even more morally reprehensible alternative. Shepard would essentially placing a "control chip" in everyone in the Galaxy. Without that additional qualifier Synthesis should cause utter chaos.

Either choice in this scenario would sacrifice trillions of lives. At least the lives of the beings of the following cycle would be their own with Refuse.

Modifié par Darc_Requiem, 30 juin 2012 - 05:23 .

[dreman9999]

Slakky wrote...

The Angry One wrote...

Slakky wrote...

The Angry One wrote...

Javik is in my mind absolute proof of brainwashing.
There is no way he'd be happy with this. No way. Not after everything he says. Not with the memory of the Zha'til that he carries. He wouldn't just be standing around passively.

Really, what would he do?  Brood about it extra?  Not his bag either way; he's going to go eat a gun after this.

Be furious. Not attend the memorial for the person most likely responsible for this. Kill himself if everyone's lucky, go on a shooting spree on the Normandy if they're not. Well. Your mileage may vary if existence as a husk is considered lucky.

Though Javik still follows Shep even if Shep says that destroying the Reapers isn't the ultimate goal.  Even if Shep lies to him about having this opinion.

Could just be he's showing deference to the person who succeeded where his people failed, even if they didn't do things how he wanted. That would be pretty consistent with his previous actions.

What? What Javik are you taking about? You never even descused with him on the issuse on killing the reapers is not the awnser. Do you know who he is? If he was there he would stab out you eyes for even considering synthesis. He will not blindly help you to assisst the reapers. For him it's their death or nothing.

[Enjou]

Let's see, I could do one of the following...

A. Modify everyone in the galaxy in such a way that will increase cross-cultural understanding, advance people's capabilities, and allow them to live and maintain their individuality. (there is absolutely no indication of Reaper control with this ending - if anything the reaction of that one husk in the cut scene may indicate that synthesis may have freed it from Reaper control, and the Reapers themselves may have been freed from Star-Child's control as well which would allow them to become individuals that better reflect the races they were created from)

or

B. Let everyone in the galaxy either die horribly, indoctrinated and then dying horribly, turned into a mindless husk that will be forced to kill members of it's original species, make more husks, and turn people into Reapers in this cycle and possibly the next or just being thrown out like useless garbage, or get turned into a Reaper that has to follow Star-Child's bidding either until the galaxy truly ends or until someone else in a future cycle builds another Crucible and picks synthesis anyways.

Yeah, I'll go with synthesis.

[RPGmom28]

Enjou, you've hit the nail on the head for me. I'd only like to add that it doesn't seem likely that another person as brave, respected, capable, and heroic as Commander Shepard will be willing step up and make things any better in another cycle. The chances of such a person taking charge selflessly and being willing to do what no other person will do are so remote that if Shepard doesn't do something to end the Reaper threat one way or another, BILLIONS will die until someone else does.

[bleetman]

JackumsD wrote...

No need to get snippy. I put all of that effort in to add that striked out text to try and make my response seem more light-hearted and you get hostile anyway? Psh. But similarly, when your arguments aren't based on your own headcanon and speculation, do let me know. I'd very well like to argue something tangible.

You see, fanfic is not my forté.

I'm sure that the Prothean avatar of vengeance would be just fine with having his physiological body altered to appease the Reapers, who now apparently live alongside everyone.

Yeah, no. There's head canon and fan fiction, and there's just plain character consistency.

Modifié par bleetman, 30 juin 2012 - 03:14 .

[memorysquid]

The Angry One wrote...

Javik is in my mind absolute proof of brainwashing.
There is no way he'd be happy with this. No way. Not after everything he says. Not with the memory of the Zha'til that he carries. He wouldn't just be standing around passively.

Or he would because he figured out his bigotry was the product of a desperate, total war mentality and no rational fear of synthetics.  The game doesn't say, so headcanon what you wish.  Say instead that he's only staying alive long enough to pay his respects to Shep and then he's off to the suicide booth.  "So long, suckers!"

[MegaSovereign]

Um Synthesis?

I'm not going to **** over the galaxy because of my pride.

[Vizard355]

Refuse, no contest.

[memorysquid]

Enjou wrote...

Let's see, I could do one of the following...

A. Modify everyone in the galaxy in such a way that will increase cross-cultural understanding, advance people's capabilities, and allow them to live and maintain their individuality. (there is absolutely no indication of Reaper control with this ending - if anything the reaction of that one husk in the cut scene may indicate that synthesis may have freed it from Reaper control, and the Reapers themselves may have been freed from Star-Child's control as well which would allow them to become individuals that better reflect the races they were created from)

or

B. Let everyone in the galaxy either die horribly, indoctrinated and then dying horribly, turned into a mindless husk that will be forced to kill members of it's original species, make more husks, and turn people into Reapers in this cycle and possibly the next or just being thrown out like useless garbage, or get turned into a Reaper that has to follow Star-Child's bidding either until the galaxy truly ends or until someone else in a future cycle builds another Crucible and picks synthesis anyways.

Yeah, I'll go with synthesis.

You fool!  There's gene violations galore to consider!  Plus, I wanted an ending where I got to blow up the Reapers, and you aren't supporting that wish by pointing out how the game actually describes synthesis as a fantastic and hope-filled ending!

That husk's expression is priceless.  "Why was I trying to eat this guy's brains again?"

[The RPGenius]

Refuse, obviously. Synthesis is the worst idea Bioware's had since someone in Marketing said, "Hey, guys, wouldn't it be great if we held a mic up to Jessica Chobot's mouth?"

[BigEvil]

Interesting game, the only correct move is not to play.

[Darc_Requiem]

bleetman wrote...

JackumsD wrote...

No need to get snippy. I put all of that effort in to add that striked out text to try and make my response seem more light-hearted and you get hostile anyway? Psh. But similarly, when your arguments aren't based on your own headcanon and speculation, do let me know. I'd very well like to argue something tangible.

You see, fanfic is not my forté.

I'm sure that the Prothean avatar of vengeance would be just fine with having his physiological body altered to appease the Reapers, who now apparently live alongside everyone.

Yeah, no. There's head canon and fan fiction, and there's just plain character consistency.

Not with Synthesis. In Synthesis, the Catalyst=The Men's Association and The Milky Way=Stepford, Connecticut

[ZerebusPrime]

I agree that Javik being passive about becoming what he has always viewed as an abomination of life is highly suspicious.

Even if that were not the case, I detest Synthesis. It's the REAPER'S idea of Utopia, not ours, and we're forcing it upon the rest of the galaxy? No way. Refuse.

Yes, I actually agree that Synthesis is where we're all heading in the far flung future (that or extinction), but there are so very many steps that have to be taken first. Short-cutting the natural evolution of how we use technology is dangerous enough without having the Reaper overmind involved. So again, no. Refuse.

[Cyruge]

Every generation will choose refuse until someone chooses synthesis. "Refuse" can be replaced with the word "postpone". Hence, I would choose synthesis, even though it's kinda messed up, it's still the only way to stop the cycle (in your scenario).

[memorysquid]

ZerebusPrime wrote...

I agree that Javik being passive about becoming what he has always viewed as an abomination of life is highly suspicious.

Even if that were not the case, I detest Synthesis. It's the REAPER'S idea of Utopia, not ours, and we're forcing it upon the rest of the galaxy? No way. Refuse.

Excellent.  Enjoy oblivion.  I am sure the synthesized lady and kid in the next cycle think you made a great choice for your dead and vanished civilization.

[F00lishG]

Kicking the can down the road to someone more Shepard than you isn't right or smart. Synthesis over wasting time and lives.

[Volc19]

Refuse.

Synthesis takes away our right to be different. As Mordin would say, most of us has been "replaced by tech." Also, with the Reapers bestowing all of the knowledge of the universe on us, there is no more culture to grow. Everything stagnates.

Refuse works to preserve the Galaxy as it was. Albiet by killing our cycle, but all life still has the right to self determine. Also, I refuse to believe that the next cycle used the Crucible, so we still have Relays, living synthetics, dead Reapers, and non-borg life in the Galaxy.

[Darc_Requiem]

@Volc19

I didn't even think about that conversation with Mordin in ME2. Excellent post.

[memorysquid]

Volc19 wrote...

Refuse.

Synthesis takes away our right to be different. As Mordin would say, most of us has been "replaced by tech." Also, with the Reapers bestowing all of the knowledge of the universe on us, there is no more culture to grow. Everything stagnates.

Pure headcanon.

Refuse works to preserve the Galaxy as it was. Albiet by killing our cycle, but all life still has the right to self determine. Also, I refuse to believe that the next cycle used the Crucible, so we still have Relays, living synthetics, dead Reapers, and non-borg life in the Galaxy.

And more headcanon.

If you think studying history destroys culture, that isn't a problem with the game.  Because from watching the game, all we get through synthesis, or not even directly through synthesis but through communication with the Reapers, is history lessons.

Refuse doesn't preserve the galaxy, unless you simply discount all those people that die or get gooified.  People are things in the galaxy and they get wiped in refuse.  Apparently a lot of different version of this game went out?  Because there are a lot of different understandings of some very helpfully narrated events.

[Spitfire017]

Refuse. Synthesis is an abomination.