Darth_Shizz wrote...
How can you call Anti-Magic Ward useless? Have you ever gone up against a room full of mages?
Yes. I used Blood Wound.
Useless and uber Spells
Débuté par
Gecon
, déc. 15 2009 01:50
#51
Posté 15 décembre 2009 - 11:28
JaegerBane
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Yes. I used Blood Wound.
Retour en haut
#52
Posté 15 décembre 2009 - 11:44
RockGnasher
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it would be nice to be able to see what spells are effecting mobs... it seems like I cast a spell like disorient or weakness and I can't even tell if it makes any difference... same goes with stuff like crippling shot or whatever... another thing I don't like is how confusing large battles get to be ... that sort of thing makes me miss the old BG2 system or NWN where when you cast something you know if it fiires and there are no discrepancies with timing
Modifié par RockGnasher, 15 décembre 2009 - 11:46 .
#53
Posté 15 décembre 2009 - 11:49
Sylvius the Mad
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Arcane Shield is quite useful early in the game, but later on not so much.
Rock Armour is always useful. Archers will target your mages from time to time - 12 extra armour is very nice to have. Plus, it's a necessary talent on the way to Stonefist, which is awesome.
Rock Armour is always useful. Archers will target your mages from time to time - 12 extra armour is very nice to have. Plus, it's a necessary talent on the way to Stonefist, which is awesome.
#54
Posté 15 décembre 2009 - 11:51
luckyirish.dowd
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I think that the main point that Gecon is trying to make isn't that all of those spells have no benifits in the game, merely that the costs to get those spells is often outweighed by there sometimes benifits. Yes, we all have different play styles. Yes, one spell for you may be completely useless to me and vice versa. But ultimately, there are certain spells that just seem to not be effective enough or take to long to get or, conversely, are just so awesome that everyone should get them no matter what.
Some such examples that I tend to agree with are arcane sheild and stone armor. As mentioned above, I don't intend on EVEN BEING ATTACKED. Who needs armor or dodging when you're tank is the only one getting beat up? Ergo, useless in that sense. Staff focus is also useless because it adds so little damage to anyone not using a staff. I, personally, try not to simply down lyrium potions like a drunk sailor in order to make the game a bit more challenging, so my healer's tactics set their mana to be used mostly on healing magic, rather than offensive. So for Wynne, it's great because she adds in that cheap poke constantly from afar, but for my PC it's useless since I do the damage.
Some other talents just aren't worth getting, either because they're TOO situational or because they require too many lackluster talents to justify them. Arcane Mastery only raises spellpower by 5 pts, which is rediculous for a forth teir ability that you have to wait till level 12 to get. Even with it being perminant it should still be higher because all of the other abilities before it often are never truly utilized (unless if you're an arcane warrior for my Wynne). I could use those 3 talents for 3 abilities that I'll use 50+% of the time. Things like the anit-magic abilities, though not completely worthless, are so specialized that they only ever get used on possibly 1/25th of the enemies. There are far more melee opponents than mages in the game, so I perfer to focus more on them. Plus, any mage that is around ends up becoming my first target and gets slaughter fast (I freakin' hate enemy mages!). So why stop their magic when I can hit them with a spell right before my melee dps'ers beat them down?
As for that stupid crack about the difficultly level and only using a limited number of spells, let people play as they wish and shut up about it unless if you believe that you can honestly say something that will improve their entertainment. That's all this is: a game for entertainment. Not some geekfeast "I'm the coolest because I can kill computerized dragons better than you" contest. If someone doesn't want to go hardcorps, let them. Me personally, I have a life, I have demands on my life, I have responsibilties that I have to meet. I don't have time for most games to master them on the hardest levels and become these ubergood soloists. So for the most part, I pick a difficultly that I can have fun with and just enjoy the free time that I've got. Plus, playing anything solo sucks because it lacks, in the least, other compenents (like your allies, their banter, ect.) to add character not only to the story, but also to each battle. I personally have more fun multitasking and seeing the results. You get more hilarity out of it. So for those who want to criticize people who aren't playing at the super-hyper-ultra top teirs of gamership, grow the frick up!
The whole point of this forum is to hold a discussion on what works and what doesn't. What is useful in most circumstances and what is useful in only a few. Which abilities are "must haves" and which are "maybe's." This isn't a bash feast for saying how stupid someone is for not thinking or playing exactly like you. Basically, think about what you're saying and what point you're trying to get across and give constructive criticism.
I personally would like to know what combinations of abilities everyone finds useful. It isn't enough to say "this is good" or "that is good," but WHICH CHAINS work naturally together in the majority of circumstances, spell combos that it doesn't fell like you're just forcing them to work so that it justifies buying the two spells.
Some such examples that I tend to agree with are arcane sheild and stone armor. As mentioned above, I don't intend on EVEN BEING ATTACKED. Who needs armor or dodging when you're tank is the only one getting beat up? Ergo, useless in that sense. Staff focus is also useless because it adds so little damage to anyone not using a staff. I, personally, try not to simply down lyrium potions like a drunk sailor in order to make the game a bit more challenging, so my healer's tactics set their mana to be used mostly on healing magic, rather than offensive. So for Wynne, it's great because she adds in that cheap poke constantly from afar, but for my PC it's useless since I do the damage.
Some other talents just aren't worth getting, either because they're TOO situational or because they require too many lackluster talents to justify them. Arcane Mastery only raises spellpower by 5 pts, which is rediculous for a forth teir ability that you have to wait till level 12 to get. Even with it being perminant it should still be higher because all of the other abilities before it often are never truly utilized (unless if you're an arcane warrior for my Wynne). I could use those 3 talents for 3 abilities that I'll use 50+% of the time. Things like the anit-magic abilities, though not completely worthless, are so specialized that they only ever get used on possibly 1/25th of the enemies. There are far more melee opponents than mages in the game, so I perfer to focus more on them. Plus, any mage that is around ends up becoming my first target and gets slaughter fast (I freakin' hate enemy mages!). So why stop their magic when I can hit them with a spell right before my melee dps'ers beat them down?
As for that stupid crack about the difficultly level and only using a limited number of spells, let people play as they wish and shut up about it unless if you believe that you can honestly say something that will improve their entertainment. That's all this is: a game for entertainment. Not some geekfeast "I'm the coolest because I can kill computerized dragons better than you" contest. If someone doesn't want to go hardcorps, let them. Me personally, I have a life, I have demands on my life, I have responsibilties that I have to meet. I don't have time for most games to master them on the hardest levels and become these ubergood soloists. So for the most part, I pick a difficultly that I can have fun with and just enjoy the free time that I've got. Plus, playing anything solo sucks because it lacks, in the least, other compenents (like your allies, their banter, ect.) to add character not only to the story, but also to each battle. I personally have more fun multitasking and seeing the results. You get more hilarity out of it. So for those who want to criticize people who aren't playing at the super-hyper-ultra top teirs of gamership, grow the frick up!
The whole point of this forum is to hold a discussion on what works and what doesn't. What is useful in most circumstances and what is useful in only a few. Which abilities are "must haves" and which are "maybe's." This isn't a bash feast for saying how stupid someone is for not thinking or playing exactly like you. Basically, think about what you're saying and what point you're trying to get across and give constructive criticism.
I personally would like to know what combinations of abilities everyone finds useful. It isn't enough to say "this is good" or "that is good," but WHICH CHAINS work naturally together in the majority of circumstances, spell combos that it doesn't fell like you're just forcing them to work so that it justifies buying the two spells.
#55
Posté 16 décembre 2009 - 12:13
Darth_Shizz
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JaegerBane wrote...
Darth_Shizz wrote...
How can you call Anti-Magic Ward useless? Have you ever gone up against a room full of mages?
Yes. I used Blood Wound.
I personally use animate dead for such situations. Point being, it has a use, as do most spells
Now if your argument is "Spell A is so good, it makes little spells b, c and d obsolete", then yeah, I can see your point.
Still... I for one, enjoy variation ;p
#56
Posté 16 décembre 2009 - 12:19
Rolenka
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Staff Focus is actually quite nice for healers. I mean, if you're not casting, you may as well be attacking.
And I don't know what your problem is with using fire spells. The cooldown on COC is a lot longer than the freeze duration.
And I don't know what your problem is with using fire spells. The cooldown on COC is a lot longer than the freeze duration.
#57
Posté 16 décembre 2009 - 12:27
Fluffykeith
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One combo I found very usefull, (was playing heavy melée so avoided AOE damage spells...not a fan of friendly fire 
) was Petrify followed by Stonefist on the same target. Both spells that the OP doesn't seem to rate, but when used together can be very good.
) was Petrify followed by Stonefist on the same target. Both spells that the OP doesn't seem to rate, but when used together can be very good.
#58
Posté 16 décembre 2009 - 12:31
XOGHunter246
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I find some many people hate certain ones that many love it about what works for you if OP thinks they sucky guess they don't work for him. but seriously cone of cold?
#59
Posté 16 décembre 2009 - 12:42
Jasco11
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Most usefull for my play style CC spells.
I don't use 2-3 mages for DPS, I'm more of a traditional 1 class per group person. (Tank, Melee DPS, Mage DPS, Healer).
Most useless AoE DPS skills because I have 2 melee guys who focus on keeping the mobs off the squishy mages.
I don't use 2-3 mages for DPS, I'm more of a traditional 1 class per group person. (Tank, Melee DPS, Mage DPS, Healer).
Most useless AoE DPS skills because I have 2 melee guys who focus on keeping the mobs off the squishy mages.
#60
Posté 16 décembre 2009 - 12:48
jdeneweth
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I think the OP was trolling. At least half of the spells he didn't like are awesome. He had a lot of flawed logic or misunderstanding of game mechanics backing up his oppinions.
The only thing I can agree with him on is that flame blast isn't very good. I think he might have accidentally made a point about grease and fire. The fire tree doesn't have any CC besides fireball's knockdown. The flaming grease combo does seem a little underwhelming considering what you have to give up to get it early game, or how late in the game you can comfortably get it.
Spell wisp and spell might seemed repetitive, I don't really understand the added function or value of having both of them in game. A trade off of mana reserved or more fatigue for higher spell power is an intersting tatical idea, but I've tried both of these skills and they seemed very underwhelming for the point spent. I would like to see one of them designed to increase damage/durations and the other lower resistance or take extra mana to turn resists into hits.
To be honest all most all of the spells in game have a use. Some are more situatonal or need to be used 'correctly' to maximize results. Rock armor and arcane shield are the worst spells in the world if they are activated while you're casting spells from the back, but they are real life savers if you turn them on when the ogre turns to charge you.
The only thing I can agree with him on is that flame blast isn't very good. I think he might have accidentally made a point about grease and fire. The fire tree doesn't have any CC besides fireball's knockdown. The flaming grease combo does seem a little underwhelming considering what you have to give up to get it early game, or how late in the game you can comfortably get it.
Spell wisp and spell might seemed repetitive, I don't really understand the added function or value of having both of them in game. A trade off of mana reserved or more fatigue for higher spell power is an intersting tatical idea, but I've tried both of these skills and they seemed very underwhelming for the point spent. I would like to see one of them designed to increase damage/durations and the other lower resistance or take extra mana to turn resists into hits.
To be honest all most all of the spells in game have a use. Some are more situatonal or need to be used 'correctly' to maximize results. Rock armor and arcane shield are the worst spells in the world if they are activated while you're casting spells from the back, but they are real life savers if you turn them on when the ogre turns to charge you.
Modifié par jdeneweth, 16 décembre 2009 - 12:58 .
#61
Posté 16 décembre 2009 - 01:05
Blue_dodo
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oriondeltagamma wrote...
I think most of the spells have their place based on party composition and the situation. We all play differently.
Take Animate Dead for instance. I used this a lot to deal with traps, ambushes and generally control the battle without endangering my party members. It is an expendable pawn which can be used to draw enemies into a carefully planned bottleneck.
The magical attack from staves, while useless against *certain types of units* can be quite effective against other types of units. When I had three mages in my party for a little bit their combined attacks were making a huge impact on the enemies, especially with focusing fire.
To say a spell is useless is only to say that you yourself lack the imagination to utilize it, or simply that it doesn't work with your strategy. It doesn't make you cool
To make a metaphore: drinking alcohol can be as simple as drinking the same beer every night or having a different mixed cocktail, based on your mood/surroundings. To say either is the "true" way to enjoy it is to miss the bigger picture. Enjoy what you like, do it often!
PS: I wish my spell bar could be bigger, I ran out of room for spells!
agreed this topic isPurley subjective, personally I never use a spell by itself, curse of
mortality maybe weak alone but combine with other hexs and it is quite
good at killing, also it is nice to use it on say emissaries or
opponents that tend to heal themselves.
on a side not mana cleanse REALLY needs a better description, I have no idea what the hell they mean by "nullify"
#62
Posté 16 décembre 2009 - 02:28
Cybercat999
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XOGHunter246 wrote...
I find some many people hate certain ones that many love it about what works for you if OP thinks they sucky guess they don't work for him. but seriously cone of cold?
If OP ever tried some of the spells he is bashing here, he would know how useful they can be. He probably just read the description and never played mage longer than startup quest.
#63
Posté 19 décembre 2009 - 09:04
Gecon
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Good thing this site lists your own threads or I wouldnt have found this again ...
[quote]pathenry wrote...
Mana Drain:
Yeah right, only sucks in like 1/500th of your mana bar.[/quote]
Only if you use it on mobs that dont have mana - then it does absolutely nothing. Mobs with mana will give you enough for another spell (not much more, though).
[quote]pathenry wrote...
Mana Cleanse:
Doesn't seem to do anything for me. [/quote]
As I already wrote : it drains about as much mana from the opponent as you need to cast it, so yes its very pointless.
[quote]Rainen89 wrote...
Improved drain [...]
[...] fireball is probably one of the most
ridiculous spells. High damage and aoe knockdown. You don't need to
worry about it dispelling CC, it is CC.[/quote]
I know I can double Drain Health with Vul Hex, but whats the point ? A Heal will heal as much as such an enhanced Drain Health and I dont need a spell to prepare it.
And about Fireball, after that knockdown I cant freeze opponents any more as long as that DoT is running, which is kinda not so cool really.
[quote]Viglin wrote...
And as you can see from about 12 responses...you may want to rethink your magic tactics. [/quote]
Nope, would be glad about it, but nothing so far. I knew Arcane Warrior can use some def, but for all other mages its a wasted slot.
[quote]Cybercat999 wrote...
OP didnt notice that lot of mobs are actually fire resistant. Or maybe he didnt get to that part of the game yet.
[/quote]
Yeah that too. And you meed the first guy of that kind in the Origin already.
[quote]oriondeltagamma wrote...
To say a spell is useless is
only to say that you yourself lack the imagination to utilize it, or
simply that it doesn't work with your strategy. It doesn't make you
cool
[/quote]
And in what context exactly would an uber crap spell like Mana Cleanse be any useful ?
And I asked specifically for spells that you wouldnt buy if you could buy spells freely and wouldnt be forced to buy crap to get to the good spells.
Not for spells that are useless in all situations anyway.
Nobody used the word "cool" before you did.
[quote]Marvin TPA wrote...
Useless is such a strong word.[/quote]
Well, thats why it wasnt my question.
[quote]Marvin TPA wrote...
Earthquake can quiet down archers pretty well. [/quote]
Not for me but I give you the benefit of the doubt. I only tried it 2 or 3 times before I gave up and used a respec to get rid of that spell again. Maybe the archers I was using it on where especially resistant.
[quote]Marvin TPA wrote...
Ice/fire/elec./nature are all subject to resistance, and its nice to have a spare to bypass. [/quote]
So far I had good experience with Ice on Morrigan and Lightning on my own mage.
[quote]Rainen89 wrote...
Also waking nightmare doesn't work on undead/demons/constructs/spirits and I think a few others? [/quote]
Thats why I assumed and didnt went for it, yet.
[quote]JaegerBane wrote...
To be honest, anyone who truly thinks
Fireball is a useless spell just doesn't understand what they're
talking about. Yeah, big damage, crowd control, DoT.... but all that is
crap because it can't be used with Grease. Sure thing [smilie]../../../images/forum/emoticons/andy.png[/smilie]
[/quote]
The incompability with Ice is much more important, because I havent skilled Grease yet, but I throw Ice around all the time. Yes I know Fireball does good damage, no question.
Anyway, the Grease effect is the point of Grease and a stationary DoT isnt really a good replacement.
[quote]2Drunk2Frag wrote...
I'm playing on nghtmare and I am
breezing through alot of encounters with tonsof enemies by doing the
following--- 1) Cast blizzard and have wayne cast earthquake to keep
everyone in one spot tell they are frozen, 2) cast the affliction aoe
hex and have wayne put down a glyph of repulsion in case people resist
the CC ( and later use glyph of paralysis if need be), 3) Cast inferno
(doesn't cancel blizzard), 4) lob a fireball in the crowd, 5) cast
blood wound. Doing this I can kill as many enemies as I can fit in the
AOE radius. If I really want to save time, I have my Tank (Alister)
run around and gather up enemies from different rooms, have him taunt,
I shield him, and do the above.
I guess the point is that fire spells do not cancel out Ice. (Unless there is a version of hte game that this is true).[/quote]
Sorry, but John Wayne is dead. The NPC spirit healer is named Wynne. Funny misspell, anyway.
[quote]Lacan2 wrote...
Disagree completely. Fireball is better than CoC, and always has been.
You
have to get into range of archers and mages to use CoC on them. [...] [/quote]
Best against mages is IMHO Glyph of Neutralization.
[quote]Statisfaction wrote...
Not all women are beautiful, and there is nothing keeping you from using as many as possible... [/quote]
What the hell ?
[quote]Marionetten wrote...
I wonder how many of you have tried the new version of crushing prison. It's pretty much useless on Nightmare. [...] [/quote]
Nah. I only play Hard, but not much has changed about it really.
[quote]Marionetten wrote...
The hex line is definitely the most overpowered spell line in the whole game.
[/quote] Nah. Main reason those are great is because they actually work on bosses. Unlike crushing prison which I dont even try on bosses anymore anyway.
[quote]Sylixe wrote...
NONE of the spells are useless [/quote]
Yeah yeah. The question was which ones where not worth the talent point for it.
[quote]Starlight wrote...
Improved Drain
not only work on Vulnerability Hex + Drain Life combo. It also works on
Vulnerability Hex + Drain Mana combo as well.
With this combo the mage can drain double amount of life of mana than the original spells.[/quote]
Yes, but still only if the mob in question had any mana to begin with. Otherwise you get twice the amount of zero mana, which, surprisingly, is still zero mana.
[quote]Rolenka wrote...
Staff Focus is actually quite nice for healers. I mean, if you're not casting, you may as well be attacking. [/quote]
Jupp but I dont need Staff Focus for attacking with a staff.
[quote]jdeneweth wrote...
I think the OP was trolling. [/quote]
Whow. Somebody wants to start a discussion about spells is TROLLING in your pocket ?
[quote]pathenry wrote...
Mana Drain:
Yeah right, only sucks in like 1/500th of your mana bar.[/quote]
Only if you use it on mobs that dont have mana - then it does absolutely nothing. Mobs with mana will give you enough for another spell (not much more, though).
[quote]pathenry wrote...
Mana Cleanse:
Doesn't seem to do anything for me. [/quote]
As I already wrote : it drains about as much mana from the opponent as you need to cast it, so yes its very pointless.
[quote]Rainen89 wrote...
Improved drain [...]
[...] fireball is probably one of the most
ridiculous spells. High damage and aoe knockdown. You don't need to
worry about it dispelling CC, it is CC.[/quote]
I know I can double Drain Health with Vul Hex, but whats the point ? A Heal will heal as much as such an enhanced Drain Health and I dont need a spell to prepare it.
And about Fireball, after that knockdown I cant freeze opponents any more as long as that DoT is running, which is kinda not so cool really.
[quote]Viglin wrote...
And as you can see from about 12 responses...you may want to rethink your magic tactics. [/quote]
Nope, would be glad about it, but nothing so far. I knew Arcane Warrior can use some def, but for all other mages its a wasted slot.
[quote]Cybercat999 wrote...
OP didnt notice that lot of mobs are actually fire resistant. Or maybe he didnt get to that part of the game yet.
[/quote]
Yeah that too. And you meed the first guy of that kind in the Origin already.
[quote]oriondeltagamma wrote...
To say a spell is useless is
only to say that you yourself lack the imagination to utilize it, or
simply that it doesn't work with your strategy. It doesn't make you
cool
[/quote]
And in what context exactly would an uber crap spell like Mana Cleanse be any useful ?
And I asked specifically for spells that you wouldnt buy if you could buy spells freely and wouldnt be forced to buy crap to get to the good spells.
Not for spells that are useless in all situations anyway.
Nobody used the word "cool" before you did.
[quote]Marvin TPA wrote...
Useless is such a strong word.[/quote]
Well, thats why it wasnt my question.
[quote]Marvin TPA wrote...
Earthquake can quiet down archers pretty well. [/quote]
Not for me but I give you the benefit of the doubt. I only tried it 2 or 3 times before I gave up and used a respec to get rid of that spell again. Maybe the archers I was using it on where especially resistant.
[quote]Marvin TPA wrote...
Ice/fire/elec./nature are all subject to resistance, and its nice to have a spare to bypass. [/quote]
So far I had good experience with Ice on Morrigan and Lightning on my own mage.
[quote]Rainen89 wrote...
Also waking nightmare doesn't work on undead/demons/constructs/spirits and I think a few others? [/quote]
Thats why I assumed and didnt went for it, yet.
[quote]JaegerBane wrote...
To be honest, anyone who truly thinks
Fireball is a useless spell just doesn't understand what they're
talking about. Yeah, big damage, crowd control, DoT.... but all that is
crap because it can't be used with Grease. Sure thing [smilie]../../../images/forum/emoticons/andy.png[/smilie]
[/quote]
The incompability with Ice is much more important, because I havent skilled Grease yet, but I throw Ice around all the time. Yes I know Fireball does good damage, no question.
Anyway, the Grease effect is the point of Grease and a stationary DoT isnt really a good replacement.
[quote]2Drunk2Frag wrote...
I'm playing on nghtmare and I am
breezing through alot of encounters with tonsof enemies by doing the
following--- 1) Cast blizzard and have wayne cast earthquake to keep
everyone in one spot tell they are frozen, 2) cast the affliction aoe
hex and have wayne put down a glyph of repulsion in case people resist
the CC ( and later use glyph of paralysis if need be), 3) Cast inferno
(doesn't cancel blizzard), 4) lob a fireball in the crowd, 5) cast
blood wound. Doing this I can kill as many enemies as I can fit in the
AOE radius. If I really want to save time, I have my Tank (Alister)
run around and gather up enemies from different rooms, have him taunt,
I shield him, and do the above.
I guess the point is that fire spells do not cancel out Ice. (Unless there is a version of hte game that this is true).[/quote]
Sorry, but John Wayne is dead. The NPC spirit healer is named Wynne. Funny misspell, anyway.
[quote]Lacan2 wrote...
Disagree completely. Fireball is better than CoC, and always has been.
You
have to get into range of archers and mages to use CoC on them. [...] [/quote]
Best against mages is IMHO Glyph of Neutralization.
[quote]Statisfaction wrote...
Not all women are beautiful, and there is nothing keeping you from using as many as possible... [/quote]
What the hell ?
[quote]Marionetten wrote...
I wonder how many of you have tried the new version of crushing prison. It's pretty much useless on Nightmare. [...] [/quote]
Nah. I only play Hard, but not much has changed about it really.
[quote]Marionetten wrote...
The hex line is definitely the most overpowered spell line in the whole game.
[/quote] Nah. Main reason those are great is because they actually work on bosses. Unlike crushing prison which I dont even try on bosses anymore anyway.
[quote]Sylixe wrote...
NONE of the spells are useless [/quote]
Yeah yeah. The question was which ones where not worth the talent point for it.
[quote]Starlight wrote...
Improved Drain
not only work on Vulnerability Hex + Drain Life combo. It also works on
Vulnerability Hex + Drain Mana combo as well.
With this combo the mage can drain double amount of life of mana than the original spells.[/quote]
Yes, but still only if the mob in question had any mana to begin with. Otherwise you get twice the amount of zero mana, which, surprisingly, is still zero mana.
[quote]Rolenka wrote...
Staff Focus is actually quite nice for healers. I mean, if you're not casting, you may as well be attacking. [/quote]
Jupp but I dont need Staff Focus for attacking with a staff.
[quote]jdeneweth wrote...
I think the OP was trolling. [/quote]
Whow. Somebody wants to start a discussion about spells is TROLLING in your pocket ?
