398 réponses à ce sujet

[Hey]

MisterJB wrote...

Festae9 wrote...
no doubt man.  I think they coddle us too much, but if these choices start in ME3 then I'm sure people wouldn't like it because it doesn't stay to the themes of Shep can win anything.  Next game series they should be more harcore.. Would be fun. 

I firmly believe that a great portion of the ending backlash was due to the fact there was no perfect choice.

DAO actually managed to pull a war story better than ME3 in many ways. By keeping the Anvil, you can basically do what TIM is doing with Reaper tech.

I do agree with you.  I'm totally not like that in my playthroughs tho.  Bioware allows me to solve everything squeeky clean so I save Mordin, stay true to my friends and all that and I still end up where you do 

It's not right tho...  ^ You ^ are playing more as you would need to most likely in a dirty war like that.  They should make it tougher on me.

DAO is great in that regard.  Some really brutal choices in there.

Modifié par Festae9, 01 janvier 2013 - 07:36 .

[fiendishchicken]

SeptimusMagistos wrote...

Yes. Yes I would. Civilians aren't resources. They're the reason we're fighting this war.

I'm sorry, but you aren't seriously that naive are you?

To quote TIM, it's always about resources. That's all the civilians are. It's about striking a balance between their usefulness. It's economics really. I can't afford to waste resources to make sure everyone comes home safe and sound. I need to utilize the population to the best efforts possible. Everyone needs to contribute in some way or another. Those that can't are either sent to sanctuary or are left as Reaper bait. I'm not going to intentionally let everyone die. At the same time, in this kind of war, there can be no civilians. This is about survival. Together, where we all contribute towards survival, affords us the greatest chance of success. 

[SeptimusMagistos]

fiendishchicken wrote...

SeptimusMagistos wrote...

Yes. Yes I would. Civilians aren't resources. They're the reason we're fighting this war.

I'm sorry, but you aren't seriously that naive are you?

To quote TIM, it's always about resources. That's all the civilians are. It's about striking a balance between their usefulness. It's economics really. I can't afford to waste resources to make sure everyone comes home safe and sound. I need to utilize the population to the best efforts possible. Everyone needs to contribute in some way or another. Those that can't are either sent to sanctuary or are left as Reaper bait. I'm not going to intentionally let everyone die. At the same time, in this kind of war, there can be no civilians. This is about survival. Together, where we all contribute towards survival, affords us the greatest chance of success.

See, this sort of talk is why I made TIM shoot himself.

Nothing to do with controlling the Reapers or indoctrination. Just this sort of thing.

[fiendishchicken]

Steelcan wrote...

fiendishchicken wrote...

No they didn't. We have the advantage of several light years distance between star systems. And as shown by the game, the Reapers can't be everywhere at once. They're going to focus their efforts against major military targets and population centers. There are plenty of resource rich planets out there that can be used to fuel the war effort without drawing the Reapers attention.

And once the reapers learn of its importance that planet will be bombed back to the Stone Age.  See Allers on Bekenstein.

Yeah. It's something that's going to happen. But I prefer to get as much milk out of the cow as possible from those colonies. You are assuming they are going to be immediately destroyed as soon as they are created. That's not going to be the case. Get as much production as possible from the resources. And as I said, the Reapers don't have unlimited resources themselves. They are focusing most of their resources on either harvesting heavy population centers or attacking major military targets. The vast majority of the remaining forces will be focusing on interdiction operations against other targets. It's too early in the war for the Reapers to invest any resources into every possible lead.

[badrepo]

Doesn't matter, Javik will wipe them out. Despite being uplifted and guided by the Protheans, the Asari ended up being directly responsible for the Galaxy being unprepared for the reapers. Assuming anyone was smart enough to listen..

[Steelcan]

I smell a compulsive paragon.....

[MacroSpamMK]

There's a fine line between using civilians as resources and using them as test subjects for sick experiments.
In Sanctuary, Cerberus crossed that line.

[Steelcan]

fiendishchicken wrote...
Yeah. It's something that's going to happen. But I prefer to get as much milk out of the cow as possible from those colonies. You are assuming they are going to be immediately destroyed as soon as they are created. That's not going to be the case. Get as much production as possible from the resources. And as I said, the Reapers don't have unlimited resources themselves. They are focusing most of their resources on either harvesting heavy population centers or attacking major military targets. The vast majority of the remaining forces will be focusing on interdiction operations against other targets. It's too early in the war for the Reapers to invest any resources into every possible lead.

They can always bomb a planet then ignore it, happens to several planets if you read their description.

[Steelcan]

MacroSpamMK wrote...

There's a fine line between using civilians as resources and using them as test subjects for sick experiments.
In Sanctuary, Cerberus crossed that line.

Better than extinction

[rabidjj]

They do deserve to face serious sanctions that would strip them of most of their political power for withholding that tech. What was on it was too damn important for anything less to be allowed, if only for the precedent it would set. Also for anyone who wants to know, Liara mentions that there were just over 5 billion Asari when the war began. Whether that's accurate or Bioware made a mistake is up in the air.

[MisterJB]

There are eleven billion humans on Earth alone. No way there are only 5 billion asari, especially not with their reproductory abilities.

[fiendishchicken]

SeptimusMagistos wrote...

See, this sort of talk is why I made TIM shoot himself.

Nothing to do with controlling the Reapers or indoctrination. Just this sort of thing.

I, too, make TIM shoot himself. He's been corrupted by the Reapers. As has Cerberus. I really want them on my side, but with the indoctrination, that's impossible. 

Also by sending them to Sanctuary, I'm sending them to their deaths to be experimented on. 

Invalids, mentally and physically handicapped (past a certain threshold), elderly (unless they prove to have valuable skills or knowledge for contribution), young children, psychologically and emotionally unstable (once again past a certain threshold), etc.

These are the drains on our resources, and they need to be purged. Either by sending them to be experimented on at Sanctuary (my backup in case the crucible fails), or sending them to a planet about to be invaded. 

[Ranger Jack Walker]

They should be removed from the political power equation. Take away their position on the council. That's more than enough punishment.

[Steelcan]

rabidjj wrote...

They do deserve to face serious sanctions that would strip them of most of their political power for withholding that tech. What was on it was too damn important for anything less to be allowed, if only for the precedent it would set. Also for anyone who wants to know, Liara mentions that there were just over 5 billion Asari when the war began. Whether that's accurate or Bioware made a mistake is up in the air.

5 Billion Asari on Thessia

[fiendishchicken]

Steelcan wrote...

fiendishchicken wrote...
Yeah. It's something that's going to happen. But I prefer to get as much milk out of the cow as possible from those colonies. You are assuming they are going to be immediately destroyed as soon as they are created. That's not going to be the case. Get as much production as possible from the resources. And as I said, the Reapers don't have unlimited resources themselves. They are focusing most of their resources on either harvesting heavy population centers or attacking major military targets. The vast majority of the remaining forces will be focusing on interdiction operations against other targets. It's too early in the war for the Reapers to invest any resources into every possible lead.

They can always bomb a planet then ignore it, happens to several planets if you read their description.

Yes they can bomb the planets. That's what I was talking about. As I said though, the Reapers have limited resources, and they'd rather harvest a population center than outright bomb it. That's going to take more time. Time that can be used to get as much resources from our resource planets as possible before the Reapers target those.

[rabidjj]

Steelcan wrote...

rabidjj wrote...

They do deserve to face serious sanctions that would strip them of most of their political power for withholding that tech. What was on it was too damn important for anything less to be allowed, if only for the precedent it would set. Also for anyone who wants to know, Liara mentions that there were just over 5 billion Asari when the war began. Whether that's accurate or Bioware made a mistake is up in the air.

5 Billion Asari on Thessia

I didn't specify Thessia. Knew I forgot to type something.

[Steelcan]

fiendishchicken wrote...

Yes they can bomb the planets. That's what I was talking about. As I said though, the Reapers have limited resources, and they'd rather harvest a population center than outright bomb it. That's going to take more time. Time that can be used to get as much resources from our resource planets as possible before the Reapers target those.

They are shown to just bypass planets numerous times.  They have zero problems with waiting.

[fiendishchicken]

Now my opinion is; Yeah, the Asari ****ed up. So did everyone else. Now we can worry about it now, or we can lock it down and rebuild. Let's move forward, and build our future, the future we all bought, a future free of the Reapers. Let it go. My Shepard is going to gradually rebuild Cerberus with Miranda, while simultaneously building a life with her.

[fiendishchicken]

Steelcan wrote...

fiendishchicken wrote...

Yes they can bomb the planets. That's what I was talking about. As I said though, the Reapers have limited resources, and they'd rather harvest a population center than outright bomb it. That's going to take more time. Time that can be used to get as much resources from our resource planets as possible before the Reapers target those.

They are shown to just bypass planets numerous times.  They have zero problems with waiting.

Again, I know that. You're missing the point. 

The point is that the Reapers have limited resources. As is shown, more often than not, they are going to use those resources either harvesting and huskifying population centers, or attacking military targets that are a direct threat.

They are not going to have the resources to spare to attack a manufacturing plant, or a farming world, or the dozens of others of those, or the space stations creating warships in deep space. 

They'll get to those eventually, but first they're going to focus on their primary targets. We use that in between time to generate as many resources as absolutely possible before the Reapers catch on and attack.

[Steelcan]

fiendishchicken wrote...
Again, I know that. You're missing the point. 

The point is that the Reapers have limited resources. As is shown, more often than not, they are going to use those resources either harvesting and huskifying population centers, or attacking military targets that are a direct threat.

They are not going to have the resources to spare to attack a manufacturing plant, or a farming world, or the dozens of others of those, or the space stations creating warships in deep space. 

They'll get to those eventually, but first they're going to focus on their primary targets. We use that in between time to generate as many resources as absolutely possible before the Reapers catch on and attack.

That window if opportunity is pretty small.  By the end of ME3 most of the galaxy is in their hands.  It seems their m.o. Is to cripple a system's capabilities both military and otherwise and then focus on harvesting.

[fiendishchicken]

MacroSpamMK wrote...

There's a fine line between using civilians as resources and using them as test subjects for sick experiments.
In Sanctuary, Cerberus crossed that line.

If they can be used as a resource at Sanctuary versus being guaranteed to die elsewhere (contributing zip to the war effort), then I'd rather be a monster and use them to contribute to exploiting a Reaper weakness, than be the saint who gives them food and resources (that could be allocated to a more useful endeavor like the military or production facilities).

As I said, I have no qualms crossing lines so long as my goal is prioritized and is of discernible use and value to advancing my longterm goals.

When it comes to a point (like the Japanese in WWII) when 'research' is conducted for the purpose of torturing and killing, that's when it becomes really bad.

[fiendishchicken]

Steelcan wrote...

That window if opportunity is pretty small.  By the end of ME3 most of the galaxy is in their hands.  It seems their m.o. Is to cripple a system's capabilities both military and otherwise and then focus on harvesting.

It's a gambit sure. But you have to take what you can get. It's a risk between consolidating current resources and stockpiling them in secure area's of the galaxy, or distributing them with the hope that the prodution will eventually pay back and increase using whatever time is available before the Reapers find you.

Modifié par fiendishchicken, 01 janvier 2013 - 08:07 .

[fiendishchicken]

bump. This is interesting.

[Steelcan]

Well. We've been firmly off topic for several pages now.......

"Oh Asari apologists, come out to playyyyyyyy"

[JBPBRC]

Steelcan wrote...

They are shown to just bypass planets numerous times.  They have zero problems with waiting.

Except when they get bored with waiting and just zerg rush the galaxy.