418 réponses à ce sujet

[Taboo]

Reptilian Rob wrote...

I agree with all of this, you did good son.

THIS PLEASE ME.

[Reptilian Rob]

barbara2012 wrote...

3DandBeyond wrote...

Taboo-XX wrote...

Bioware telling you that he/she is alive and that a reunion can take place is not enough?

Can we not do this in our heads?

Have we forgotten how to participate in art?

You are purposely ignoring what people are saying to be antagonistic at this point.  You don't need it, I get that.  I appreciate that.  Give others some sort of decency and actually try to see what they are saying.

And players had been begging for a reunion closure scene before the EC.  Jessica said there would be one.  People found out there wasn't and she changed her story.  This is cruel.

Video games can be art.   But, art speaks for itself.  It doesn't need someone to go on twitter to give a play by play of what others don't understand or tell people that wanted to see something that they didn't need to see it.  Get this, I have as much "right" to want or need to see something as you have not to care about it.

ME was a visual, interactive story.  If we are meant to use our imagination for a bunch of stuff than that should have been the clear intent of the game all along.  It wasn't.  We were clearly shown things and as Conrad said if we lacked understanding we could ask something again and get the answer repeated for us.  We saw Shepard's innards being rebuilt.  In the other endings we saw Shepard disintegrate-we get the play by play and I'm surprised they didn't repeat it in slow motion so we didn't miss anything.  In Destroy, we see a torso gasp.  They do not at all compare.  Why didn't people have to imagine Shepard being disintegrated?

wow !!!! 1000 % complety agreed with you here .....merizan merizan ts ts ts

To be fair, a product cannot be art be definition unless it is stated as such before you buy it. IE everything Ridley Scott does, in which he tells you before hand and what to expect. Bioshock was art, the DEVS told you beforehand and told you what to expect. Problem with ME is that they never said this was an artistic endeavor, and they never told you what to expect. Only to buy it and play what you have been for the past two games. Not saying ME isn't art, just saying it was never labeled as such.

"ME was a visual, interactive story.  If we are meant to use our imagination for a bunch of stuff than that should have been the clear intent of the game all along.  It wasn't."

All the way back in 2007 I remember Hudson and Drew telling us that the ending to the original ME was open to interpretation and our immagination. That was until ME2 of course, but the principle still applies. And how does one make Shepard be truly our own? But forcing people to use (the good kind) of immagination. Have we really fallen that far where everything must be black anf white?

[OchreJelly]

Taboo-XX wrote...

They have stated time and time again that he is alive. You are grousing because you do not wish to participate in a story that has already made you do this.

*Snip*

On Twitter. Twitter is not the game. I don't think anyone paid for Mass Effect: Twitter. And not everyone follows Twitter to find out the intent of the producers.

As I've said before, they didn't need to show a reunion, a possible Shepard wedding, a barbecue at the 1st anniversary of the end of the Reaper war, etc. etc.  but it would have been a fantastic gesture if they had shown the beginning moments of some kind of reunion and let us take it from there.

It strikes a much better balance than the breath scene from which to jump off of, which the breath scene just doesn't provide unless you metagame.

[3DandBeyond]

SpiritWolf448 wrote...

*sigh* By now, you'd think people would know better than to take anything said by Bioware employees at face value, especially on Twitter. And especially especially their PR/CM people. :innocent:

I personally didn't believe her, but people had a lot of hope based upon the idea of closure.  And they did give it, just not for the one possibly happy moment.  It very much feels like the ultimate FU.

And, Taboo, I really am sorry to have gotten kind of mad at you.....

[3DandBeyond]

Reptilian Rob wrote...
snipped....
"ME was a visual, interactive story.  If we are meant to use our imagination for a bunch of stuff than that should have been the clear intent of the game all along.  It wasn't."

All the way back in 2007 I remember Hudson and Drew telling us that the ending to the original ME was open to interpretation and our immagination. That was until ME2 of course, but the principle still applies. And how does one make Shepard be truly our own? But forcing people to use (the good kind) of immagination. Have we really fallen that far where everything must be black anf white?

Uh, I don't consider twitter a substitute for ingame content and certainly interviews with the devs are not either, but I don't see anything in ME1 that needs interpretation, certainly not of the level of the gasp scene.  Shepard rose from the rubble, picked or didn't pick who would be the human on the council and told them all to F off, s/he was going reaper hunting.  That's pretty clear. And beyond that we knew there'd be an ME2.

Contrast that with Shepard lying in rubble.  How is that uplifting?  We get to hear Hackett take credit for uniting people to fight together (I know he isn't-I like Lance, but Shepard should be saying this after rising from the rubble).  Torso Shepard doesn't even get to relish a partial win (with high costs).

[CuseGirl]

Reptilian Rob wrote...
To be fair, a product cannot be art be definition unless it is stated as such before you buy it. IE everything Ridley Scott does, in which he tells you before hand and what to expect. Bioshock was art, the DEVS told you beforehand and told you what to expect. Problem with ME is that they never said this was an artistic endeavor, and they never told you what to expect. Only to buy it and play what you have been for the past two games. Not saying ME isn't art, just saying it was never labeled as such.

"ME was a visual, interactive story.  If we are meant to use our imagination for a bunch of stuff than that should have been the clear intent of the game all along.  It wasn't."

All the way back in 2007 I remember Hudson and Drew telling us that the ending to the original ME was open to interpretation and our immagination. That was until ME2 of course, but the principle still applies. And how does one make Shepard be truly our own? But forcing people to use (the good kind) of immagination. Have we really fallen that far where everything must be black anf white?

Well, I had never heard of Mass Effect until a year ago and ME2 and all its DLCs were already out for PS3. So I had no clue about the possibility of the ending being open to interpretation. To be honest, I think that's a bad idea, considering 99% of the game is what it is. This whole wishy washy "well it could be this or it could seen as THAT" hasn't applied to ME-2 and most of ME-3. Now I can't comment on ME-1, but the last 2 games I've played have been pretty much upfront about what they were. Why now are we changing the game?

[Taboo]

I didn't need anything when I saw the scene myself. I understood it as I chose to.

Others do not. I really wish Bioware would comment on the issue.

[nicocap24]

Taboo-XX wrote...

I didn't need anything when I saw the scene myself. I understood it as I chose to.

Others do not. I really wish Bioware would comment on the issue.

I just don't see how anyone wouldn't understand it. It's obvious that it's implying that Shepard lives and gets reunited with his LI. I mean, we first see whoever his LI is hesitating to put his name in the wall of doom, and then we see him alive. You don't need to be a genius to figure it out.

[Taboo]

nicocap24 wrote...

Taboo-XX wrote...

I didn't need anything when I saw the scene myself. I understood it as I chose to.

Others do not. I really wish Bioware would comment on the issue.

I just don't see how anyone wouldn't understand it. It's obvious that it's implying that Shepard lives and gets reunited with his LI. I mean, we first see whoever his LI is hesitating to put his name in the wall of doom, and then we see him alive. You don't need to be a genius to figure it out.

Sometimes people don't get it. People are still uspet and it shows.

I can't change that, but I can try and help.

[Iakus]

Reptilian Rob wrote...

All the way back in 2007 I remember Hudson and Drew telling us that the ending to the original ME was open to interpretation and our immagination. That was until ME2 of course, but the principle still applies. And how does one make Shepard be truly our own? But forcing people to use (the good kind) of immagination. Have we really fallen that far where everything must be black anf white?

But in 2007, Shepard was crawling out of the rubble, does a final speech, and goes off to have more adventures.

in 2012, Shepard is still in the rubble.  If it was made abolutely clear, without "speculation" or "implication" that Shepard gets out of the rubble, and can make a final speech and do...whatever (house on Rannoch, blue babies, or just getting back into the Normandy and having new adventures) .  this wouldn't be an issue.

Modifié par iakus, 01 juillet 2012 - 12:04 .

[nicocap24]

iakus wrote...

Reptilian Rob wrote...

All the way back in 2007 I remember Hudson and Drew telling us that the ending to the original ME was open to interpretation and our immagination. That was until ME2 of course, but the principle still applies. And how does one make Shepard be truly our own? But forcing people to use (the good kind) of immagination. Have we really fallen that far where everything must be black anf white?

But in 2007, Shepard was crawling out of the rubble, does a final speech, and goes off to have more adventures.

in 2012, Shepard is still in the rubble.  If it was made abo****ely clear, without "speculation" or "implication" that Shepard gets out of the rubble, and can make a final speech and do...whatever (house on Rannoch, blue babies, or just getting back into the Normandy and having new adventures) .  this wouldn't be an issue.

There is no reason to show that scene other than to imply that Shepard will survive and get out of there.

[Iakus]

nicocap24 wrote...

There is no reason to show that scene other than to imply that Shepard will survive and get out of there.

THat's just it, "imply" isn't enough.

[nicocap24]

iakus wrote...

nicocap24 wrote...

There is no reason to show that scene other than to imply that Shepard will survive and get out of there.

THat's just it, "imply" isn't enough.

Why not? There's plenty of movies that do this, and it works just fine. Have you seen Taxi Driver? In the end, it's implied that Deniro's character will start going crazy again. They don't have to show him doing it for it to work.

[3DandBeyond]

Taboo-XX wrote...

I didn't need anything when I saw the scene myself. I understood it as I chose to.

Others do not. I really wish Bioware would comment on the issue.

Well, a few nights ago Mike Gamble was on the forums and replied to a post someone else wrote (not on this issue).  He moved on to other threads, so didn't answer my question on this.  I had no hopes at all, but I PMed him, anyway.  No answer, doubt he read it, and even if he did, well I haven't been too quiet about my distaste for certain things, so I don't think my opinion matters.

I'm just saying I don't know how or what to do to see if there's anything that can happen about this.  Probably there's nothing that can be done.  But, where it leaves me is I am totally disinterested in any DLC they might have that does not conclude Shepard's story as I needed to see it.  That's me, everyone has their own opinions on it, but judging by the different posts in different threads about this issue, I see I am not alone.

I want Shepard lifted out of the rubble and brought "home".

That's my mantra, "Bring Shepard home."

[mugwuffin1986]

Why show the scene at all or even change the High EMS Destroy memorial scene if not to imply he survives.

The Breathe scene has so much going for it now with the previous plaque hesitation and now the music cue it's hard to understand why people would want believe that "NOPE... that's his final breath, game over man."

Modifié par mugwuffin1986, 01 juillet 2012 - 12:09 .

[Taboo]

nicocap24 wrote...

iakus wrote...

nicocap24 wrote...

There is no reason to show that scene other than to imply that Shepard will survive and get out of there.

THat's just it, "imply" isn't enough.

Why not? There's plenty of movies that do this, and it works just fine. Have you seen Taxi Driver? In the end, it's implied that Deniro's character will start going crazy again. They don't have to show him doing it for it to work.

All you need is that sound effect and him looking at the mirror. That's it.

Go watch Taxi Driver people.

[zigamortis]

The only problem i have with this is that it still does not provide closure. if their saying shepard is alive then show him alive. dont go the half ass route.

[comrade gando]

shepard must have been wearing his fire resistance armor set. as well as his space vaccum resistant earpiece, and gravity resistant underwear. I can assure you there's no way in hades that man can survive an exploding space station, the vaccuum of space, and the fall to earth, must be like what 50 miles down? as well as not be affected by a device that supposedly destroys all synthetics (but damages the relays *coughbull*****). there's just too much speculation and variables, and not enough definite answers to conclude anything right now. This is why I don't feel closure to this game still...

[Sisterofshane]

Taboo-XX wrote...

nicocap24 wrote...

Taboo-XX wrote...

I didn't need anything when I saw the scene myself. I understood it as I chose to.

Others do not. I really wish Bioware would comment on the issue.

I just don't see how anyone wouldn't understand it. It's obvious that it's implying that Shepard lives and gets reunited with his LI. I mean, we first see whoever his LI is hesitating to put his name in the wall of doom, and then we see him alive. You don't need to be a genius to figure it out.

Sometimes people don't get it. People are still uspet and it shows.

I can't change that, but I can try and help.

Well, Bioware is never going to clarify this, just like IT.

If it is perfectly valid for people to continue to believe IT, then it is also perfectly valid for them to assume that their Shepard dies in the rubble of the Citadel before being discovered.

Speculations.

[zigamortis]

Taboo-XX wrote...

nicocap24 wrote...

iakus wrote...

nicocap24 wrote...

There is no reason to show that scene other than to imply that Shepard will survive and get out of there.

THat's just it, "imply" isn't enough.

Why not? There's plenty of movies that do this, and it works just fine. Have you seen Taxi Driver? In the end, it's implied that Deniro's character will start going crazy again. They don't have to show him doing it for it to work.

All you need is that sound effect and him looking at the mirror. That's it.

Go watch Taxi Driver people.

Thats fine for movies and books. they might have a future installment. Mass effect 3 is supposed to be the end of shepards story. for them to do what they did and leave the end as a cliffhanger is BS and should be abhored.

[Taboo]

But it isn't a cliffhanger.

You do that FOR sequels.

[ghost9191]

comrade gando wrote...

shepard must have been wearing his fire resistance armor set. as well as his space vaccum resistant earpiece, and gravity resistant underwear. I can assure you there's no way in hades that man can survive an exploding space station, the vaccuum of space, and the fall to earth, must be like what 50 miles down? as well as not be affected by a device that supposedly destroys all synthetics (but damages the relays *coughbull*****). there's just too much speculation and variables, and not enough definite answers to conclude anything right now. This is why I don't feel closure to this game still...

easy the blast knocked him gently back down to the platform with the control panel, he gets up walks his way back to the beam(assuming it goes bothway, yes like a bi sexual) and takes it back to earth

that or he didn't get hit to hard by the explosion , idk , crap falls on him, the beam from the cruicible barely scratches him and 2 hours later he is found by ppl searching for survivors

or i am done

[3DandBeyond]

nicocap24 wrote...

iakus wrote...

nicocap24 wrote...

There is no reason to show that scene other than to imply that Shepard will survive and get out of there.

THat's just it, "imply" isn't enough.

Why not? There's plenty of movies that do this, and it works just fine. Have you seen Taxi Driver? In the end, it's implied that Deniro's character will start going crazy again. They don't have to show him doing it for it to work.

Again, it works fine for you.  Do not tell people what should work for them.  If someone says they needed to see Shepard alive, that is what they needed.  I'm happy that you got what works for you.  But I am a different person with my own perspective.  I need different things from you.

And Taxi Driver is not ME.  People need to understand that ME was Shepard's and the player's story and leaving Shepard in the rubble does not conclude the tale for many people.  We can imagine everything, but the only thing that would make it real would be seeing it in the game.

If we don't need to see things, then why did they make the EC?  We could imagine it all--speculation for everyone.  Why have an ending at all?  Leave it at London or after Harby's beam hits Shepard.  Can't you imagine the rest?

Heck, why have ME3 at all?  Just imagine Shepard beats the reapers.

Modifié par 3DandBeyond, 01 juillet 2012 - 12:15 .

[Taboo]

ghost9191 wrote...

comrade gando wrote...

shepard must have been wearing his fire resistance armor set. as well as his space vaccum resistant earpiece, and gravity resistant underwear. I can assure you there's no way in hades that man can survive an exploding space station, the vaccuum of space, and the fall to earth, must be like what 50 miles down? as well as not be affected by a device that supposedly destroys all synthetics (but damages the relays *coughbull*****). there's just too much speculation and variables, and not enough definite answers to conclude anything right now. This is why I don't feel closure to this game still...

easy the blast knocked him gently back down to the platform with the control panel, he gets up walks his way back to the beam(assuming it goes bothway, yes like a bi sexual) and takes it back to earth

that or he didn't get hit to hard by the explosion , idk , crap falls on him, the beam from the cruicible barely scratches him and 2 hours later he is found by ppl searching for survivors

or i am done

This. Seriously. THINK people.

[Iakus]

nicocap24 wrote...

iakus wrote...

nicocap24 wrote...

There is no reason to show that scene other than to imply that Shepard will survive and get out of there.

THat's just it, "imply" isn't enough.

Why not? There's plenty of movies that do this, and it works just fine. Have you seen Taxi Driver? In the end, it's implied that Deniro's character will start going crazy again. They don't have to show him doing it for it to work.

Because every other ending in ME3 is definitive about Shepard's fate.  All of them.  Why should the only one that "implies" Shepard lives be the one that's coy with the audience?

Modifié par iakus, 01 juillet 2012 - 12:16 .